Somewhere deep in the Ozarks, Missouri splits in two. One side is farmland and highways. The other is the Eleven Point River, where everything goes quiet. No houses. No roads. Just cold, spring-fed water sliding through Mark Twain National Forest and miles of wild trout water where you can float for hours without seeing anyone.
In this episode, we dig into fly fishing the Eleven Point River and the surrounding Ozark streams with Justin Spencer. We talk about his indicator jig system, why movement matters more than anything, when the fishing is best, and how trout and smallmouth behave through the seasons. We also cover Missouri’s trout parks, blue ribbon water, and how to plan a trip that actually fits the river.
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(The full episode transcript is at the bottom of this blogpost) 👇🏻
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Show Notes with Justin Spencer on Fly Fishing the Eleven Point River
This episode covers the Eleven Point River and the greater Ozarks, focusing on a simple but deadly indicator jig system that works for trout and smallmouth bass. We talk seasons, water conditions, boat access, Missouri trout parks, and why this region offers one of the most peaceful float-fishing experiences in the country.
The Eleven Point River
Justin breaks down why the Eleven Point River feels like stepping back in time. Roughly 40–50 miles of the river flow through federally protected land, meaning no houses, no roads, and no development along the banks. It’s designated as a National Wild and Scenic Riverway, and you can float miles without seeing another angler.
The river is spring-fed, stays cool year-round, and supports both trout and smallmouth bass. That mix, combined with isolation, makes it a rare fishery in the Midwest.
The Eleven Point River flows generally south and east from Missouri into Arkansas and stretches roughly 130–140 miles. It’s a spring-fed freestone river, meaning flows depend on spring input and rainfall rather than dams.
The Ozarks cover much of southern Missouri and are defined by rolling hills, limestone bluffs, pine and oak forests, and countless cold-water springs. Most of Missouri’s fly fishing—trout and smallmouth alike—happens in this region.
Best Time of Year to Fish the Eleven Point
Justin says fall is the most consistent time to fish the Eleven Point. Water levels stabilize, fishing stays strong, and you avoid the frequent flooding that has become more common in spring.
Spring can be excellent, but trips are often canceled due to high water. Summer fishing remains solid, with water temperatures around 65°F thanks to the springs, though air temps can hit the 90s. Winter fishing slows, but opportunities remain for anglers willing to brave the cold.
The Indicator Jig System for Trout and Smallmouth
Justin’s most productive method is fishing marabou jigs under indicators year-round. The river has a massive baitfish population, so trout and smallmouth key heavily on minnows, sculpins, and crawdads. He describes it as a hybrid between streamer fishing and nymphing. The indicator allows longer drifts and keeps the fly in the strike zone longer, especially in deeper holes where fish may be sitting six to seven feet down.
Key details from Justin’s setup:
- 5- or 6-weight rod, typically 9 feet
- Floating fly line
- About 6 feet of straight 15 lb mono to a tippet ring
- 3X–4X in spring, downsizing to 4X–5X in clear water
- Marabou jig as the main fly, sometimes with a San Juan Worm or nymph dropper
- Adjustable indicators like Oros or Airlock, adjusted constantly throughout the day
Movement is everything. Justin wants anglers popping the indicator up several inches during mends so the jig rises and falls. Fish often eat as the jig drops back through the water column.
Justin’s most productive technique—year-round—is fishing marabou jigs under an indicator. While it may sound unconventional, it perfectly matches the Eleven Point’s abundant baitfish and sculpin population.
Reading Water and Finding Fish
The Eleven Point River holds fish in nearly every type of water. Wild trout often show up in riffles, while stocked and larger fish tend to sit in runs, pools, and tailouts. Oxygen isn’t usually a limiting factor because the river stays cool.
Moderate current and depth are ideal, but Justin stresses that fish can show up in unexpected places. Average trout run 13–15 inches, with occasional fish over 18 inches, but this isn’t a river known for giants.
Smallmouth Bass in the Ozarks
Trout and smallmouth are usually caught on the same setup. In winter, smallmouth stack in specific holes, but Justin waits for slightly higher, off-color water before targeting them. Clear winter water makes smallmouth extremely spooky.
When conditions line up, the bite window can be short but intense. Fifteen-inch smallmouth are common, with occasional fish pushing 17–19 inches, and reports of 20-inch fish in slower, deeper Ozark rivers.
Top 20 Places to Fly Fish in Missouri
Drifthook breaks down the top places to fly fish in Missouri, and Justin says the list lines up well with how locals see the state.
- Eleven Point River – One of the better places to fish in Missouri, but it’s big and intimidating. Best fished from a drift boat. Without knowing where fish sit, it’s hard to read.
- Trout Parks (like Bennett Spring State Park) – Missouri has four trout parks, many built in the 1930s. They sit on large springs, get stocked daily in season, and are very put-and-take. Great for beginners and families.
- Bennett Spring State Park → Niangua River – The park flows into the Niangua, with trout fishing both inside the park and outside. The Niangua also turns into a solid smallmouth river.
- Barren Fork Creek – A Blue Ribbon trout stream. Small, technical water with wild reproduction. Tougher fishing, but good habitat.
- Crane Creek – Another Blue Ribbon stream. Known for redband genetics and rumored McCloud strain rainbows. Fish often hold parr marks longer than usual.
- Blue Springs Creek – Small spring-fed water. Requires downsizing flies and tippet and moving carefully. Similar feel to a Driftless-style creek.
- Capps Creek – Another small creek where stealth matters. Not much dry fly action most of the time, but some opportunities on smaller water.
- Current River – One of the best wade-fishing trout rivers in the state. Browns and rainbows, plus strong smallmouth fishing. Gets busy in summer.
- Jacks Fork River – An Ozark Scenic Riverway focused on smallmouth. Clear water, big gravel bars, and lots of float traffic in peak season.
- Lake Taneycomo – A tailwater below Table Rock Lake. Best accessed by boat. Big browns and rainbows. Close to Branson and great for family trips, but very different from natural spring creeks.
- Most of Missouri’s best fly water sits south of I-44.
North of that turns into farmland and muddier warmwater creeks. In the Ozarks, you cross rivers and think smallmouth.
Want to dig deeper into all 20 spots, plus fly suggestions for each one?
Check out the Drifthook’s Top 20 Places to Fly Fish in Missouri blog.
About the Guest
Justin Spencer grew up fishing farm ponds in Kansas, chasing bass and bluegill before discovering fly fishing in his late teens. What started with popping bugs and panfish quickly turned into a lifelong obsession.
After studying fisheries biology and working in the field, Justin eventually landed in southern Missouri, just minutes from the Eleven Point River. He’s spent years learning Ozark rivers, from tailwaters to freestones, and even ran a canoe rental and campground before a major flood changed plans. Today, Justin brings a deep local knowledge of Missouri trout and smallmouth water, shaped by time on the river and a lot of days figuring things out the hard way.
Eleven Point Fly Fishing
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Full Podcast Transcript
Episode Transcript
WFS 870 Transcript 00:00:00 Dave: Somewhere deep in the Ozarks, the world splits in two. Much of Missouri is farmland and highways, the kind of place where you might hear a diesel truck long before you see the river. But on the eleven point River, everything goes quiet. No houses, no road. Hum. Just spring fed water sliding through Mark Twain National Forest and a stretch of wild trout water where you could float miles without meeting a single soul. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast, where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Justin Spencer is here today to take us into the Ozarks and the surrounding great rivers and spring creeks of the area. Today we’re going to find out how he fishes an indicator style jig system, and he swears by this and how it works for both trout and smallmouth bass, and how movement is the key. Today. We’re also going to find out the best seasons to fish and some tips on fishing the Ozarks as well. We’re also going to find out how Smallmouths stack in the winter, and the exact conditions that Justin waits for before taking his clients to the river, and why Missouri’s trout parks and blue ribbon streams matter and how to plan your next trip to the Missouri. All right, if you’ve ever wondered how to do it all, how to fish it, how to take it all in, we’re going to get into a top fishing spots of Missouri as well today. Uh, we’re digging in. You can find Justin Spencer at eleven point fly fishing. Com here he is. How you doing, Justin? 00:01:30 Justin: Doing good. Thanks for having me on. 00:01:32 Dave: Yeah, yeah. Thanks for putting this together here today. Um, we’re going to jump into a new river. It’s always fun talking new rivers. And we’ve done a little bit in the Missouri over the years. I think more of the southern part, which I believe you’re kind of in that range. But we’re going to talk about the eleven point River, where we’re going to talk about some of the techniques that you use down there and just really get into a background. So people and we might even get into a little bit on, you know, some of the top places to fish in Missouri. Um, but what’s happened this time of year? How are things looking down there? Are you still fishing? It’s kind of December now. How is all that looking? 00:02:03 Justin: Yeah, things are cooling off here now, so I had a couple trips last week and then it’ll start getting pretty spotty from this point on, depending on weather and water levels. You know, the fishing slows down a little here in the wintertime. It stays fairly good. But you know, people just don’t want to get out in the cold as much as they do when the weather’s better. So. 00:02:24 Dave: Yeah. So your peak time, is it kind of the typical, uh, you know, spring through fall sort of deal? 00:02:32 Justin: Yeah, it really is. Starting about mid-April, the fishing starts picking up pretty good. And then, yeah, it stays good on through about now. And even now the fishing will be good. It just gets really low and clear this time of year, which makes the fish a little. A little spookier and a little harder to catch. But we can still keep catching them pretty good, especially on cloudy days. 00:02:53 Dave: Okay, well, take us back a little bit on your your background. You’re out there now. Have you lived out there a while? What’s your first memory of kind of fly fishing and all that? Take us all the way back. 00:03:03 Justin: So I grew up in a little town called Fort Scott, Kansas, right there on the Missouri Kansas border, kind of the southeast corner of Kansas. Um, I didn’t really get into fly fishing until probably the latter high school years. I grew up, uh, with a buddy of mine in little local, um, farm pond. We would go out there quite a bit. There was a little John boat out there with oars on it. I really don’t even know who owned that boat. But yeah, we were out there most weekends in the summertime. You know, he was throwing, uh, bait casters, which I could never throw without getting horrible backlashes. So I started with the old Zebco two hundred two and, you know, just catching bass and bluegill that way. And that kind of started my love for fishing. And then from there, another friend got me into fly fishing and took that to the same farm pond, catching lots of bluegill on popping bugs. And, uh, you know, that just gave me the fever. And, uh, you know, it’s just kind of blossomed from there. 00:04:03 Dave: Yeah. It has. And have you been, uh, spent most of your time in Missouri? Uh, do you know Missouri pretty well over all the state? 00:04:09 Justin: Yeah, I know quite a bit. Now, um, out of went to graduate school for fisheries biology and, uh, met my wife there at Pittsburg State University in Pittsburg, Kansas. And, uh, from there we moved down to Florida, got jobs in our field for a while, and, and had a child, uh, decided to get back closer to home. Her homes, West Plains, Missouri, which is only about thirty minutes from the eleven point River. So we’re kind of in that area. She brought me back to her kind of her home stomping grounds. And so that’s kind of how that developed back in two thousand and four is when we moved here, uh, bought a canoe rental and campground on the North Fork of the white River, which is above Norfork Lake. So all that ends up flowing down into the tail waters, eventually coming to the white River down there. So yeah, we’ve got a lot of different fishing opportunities in this area, from tail waters to freestone streams. So it’s a really neat area to be in all kinds of different fishing for whatever you want to try to get into. 00:05:11 Dave: Right? That’s awesome. And so do you guys still have the, uh, the canoe rental and that campground? 00:05:16 Justin: No, we sold it in twenty nineteen. Had a thousand year flood in twenty seventeen that basically wiped out all of our buildings and trees and everything. And so we we put it back together, got it running again, and, uh, decided we weren’t confident that that wasn’t going to happen over and over again. So we decided to go ahead and sell it to some younger people who were who were raring to go and still excited about it. So it’s worked out well for everyone. 00:05:44 Dave: Oh, good. Well, we’re going to jump into a little on the kind of the eleven point river. We mentioned it, um, you know, at the start maybe talk about that. So frame this up. So where is the eleven point in relation to. And are you? You’re near the river. 00:05:58 Justin: Yeah. The eleven point river is basically we base our operations kind of out of Alton, Missouri, which is in Oregon County. It’s in the far southern part of the state, maybe just a little bit east of of what you would think of the center of Missouri being. Yeah, there’s really West Plains. Missouri’s really the only big town around, and it’s probably a town of twelve to fifteen thousand. So in Alton itself maybe has four or five hundred people. So we’re talking very rural area, pretty rugged, you know, windy roads and not big mountains, but pretty neat hills and valleys. Around the eleven point River is a it’s a designated National Wild and Scenic Riverway. So there’s about forty to fifty miles of it that flow through Mark Twain National Forest, which is what all of the federally owned land in Missouri is considered Mark Twain National Forest. So it’s not all connected together, but but there’s a large swath that runs down the eleven points. So when you’re floating down the eleven point, you’re not going to see houses. You’re not going to see, you know, campgrounds with RVs and vehicles. And so it’s a very wild experience, you know, probably as close to going back in time as you can be. 00:07:12 Dave: That’s cool. What’s your, um, your experience as far as guiding? When did you first, you know, learn that that was going to be, you know, your calling. 00:07:20 Justin: So when we bought the canoe rental back in two thousand and four, I thought I was a fly fisherman. Found out I really didn’t know a whole lot about it. I’d done some fly fishing. You know, we’ve got some trout parks here in Missouri, um, that are a really neat thing, and we might get into that later if you’re interested. But, you know, I’ve done some fishing at the trout parks. Uh, did some saltwater fly fishing when we lived in Florida. And then coming up to the bigger rivers here in Missouri, it was a whole different ball game, you know, talking rivers that are flowing more like seven thousand eight hundred cubic feet per second as opposed to the little small creeks we were used to. But, you know, I learned from guys coming down to the campground that were coming to the river to fish. They taught me quite a bit about techniques for the Ozarks. And, uh, you know, the guys there at Hargrove’s fly shop in Saint Louis, they were always coming down here fishing and taking me with them and, you know, giving me good pointers. And as I learned, then I started having people wanting me to take them fishing and, and bought a drift boat and, uh, just kind of went from there, you know, started out taking people for free. And then then there’s more and more people wanted to do it. You know, it just kind of grew into a little bit of a business. And then once I sold the campground, I was able to put my full attention towards guiding. 00:08:35 Dave: The eleven point is a huge, uh, river, isn’t it? It flows kind of south. Is that down into. 00:08:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, it flows. 00:08:41 Justin: Generally south and probably a little bit east. I think it’s, I don’t know, one hundred and thirty, one hundred and forty miles long flowing from, from up in Missouri, well down into Arkansas. So yeah, it’s a really neat deal for sure. 00:08:57 Dave: Huh? And so are you in the maybe describe the geography a little bit where the eleven point is and the you mentioned the Mark Twain National Forest. Is that, uh, considered is that the Ozarks maybe describe Missouri a little bit overall? 00:09:09 Justin: Yeah, we’re definitely in the Ozarks. Most of the, the streams and rivers that you would consider for fly fishing or any type of fishing other than maybe catfish and stuff like that are going to be found in the Ozarks, which it covers a pretty huge portion of Missouri, mostly the southern half. 00:09:26 Dave: Yeah, like kind of south of Saint Louis and Kansas City. 00:09:29 Justin: Yeah, exactly. You, you know, probably from Lake of the Ozarks down to the south is what most people would generally consider the Ozarks. And it’s just kind of a some areas are real rugged, you know, with, uh, along the rivers, you’ve got big bluffs, quite a few pine trees, oak trees, you know, mostly densely wooded areas. You know, the farmers now, um, or loggers will go in log areas and then turn it into pasture land. It’s really not good land for growing any kind of crops. 00:10:04 Speaker 3: So yeah. 00:10:05 Justin: So it’s either going to be heavily forested, um, which most of the Mark Twain forest is, which is a really neat opportunity for people that want to fish and hunt. 00:10:14 Speaker 3: Huh. Yeah. 00:10:15 Justin: But yeah, that’s basically the topography. It’s, you know, more gently rolling hills than what you’d think of as mountains. There’s no real passes or anything like that. So. 00:10:25 Dave: Okay, perfect. Well, I think we’ll touch on some high level stuff a little bit later on, maybe talk about some other areas. But let’s talk about specifically the eleven point. Like maybe first talk about that. If we were, you know, trying to set up a trip to head out there, when do you think would be a good time? If we were going to get a few people together to, to come and fish that area? What do you think? Is there a prime time? 00:10:44 Justin: Probably the the best time is the fall, just because usually the weather is fairly consistent. The fishing is usually very good in the fall. Like I said earlier, sometimes when it gets a little low and clear, the fish get a little pickier and that’s typically fall water. But at the same time, you’re not worried about all the flooding and and high water that we get in the spring. I used to say the spring was the best time to come, but it just seems like like we get a lot more flooding than we used to. 00:11:15 Dave: And more rain. 00:11:17 Justin: Yeah. This last year in particular, I think I canceled more trips than I was able to take in the spring, which was kind of a bummer. 00:11:23 Speaker 3: But it. 00:11:24 Justin: Is what it is. 00:11:25 Speaker 3: Yeah, and. 00:11:25 Justin: Then it stays good on through the summertime. It gets a little hot out there. You know, we have highs in the nineties. You can always jump in the nice cool sixty five degree river to cool off. But yeah some people think that’s a little drastic too. 00:11:39 Dave: But that’s a good temperature for us that swimming temperature. 00:11:42 Speaker 3: Yeah we definitely. 00:11:43 Justin: Is a is guides. We definitely jump in and cool off even if our clients don’t Right. 00:11:48 Dave: Yeah. That’s sweet. So talk about what are you guys doing typically. Let’s just say if it’s the fall, uh, you know, say October in that range. Are you fishing? Dries. Nymphs mixing it up. What is your typical what’s the most productive technique? 00:12:01 Justin: So on the eleven point, the most productive technique, uh, year round for the most part, is going to be we fish, uh, marabou jigs under indicators, which doesn’t really sound like fly fishing, but, um, there’s such a huge bait fish population in the eleven point that the fish really get keyed into those little minnows and stuff. And so so we’re trying to imitate any of the minnows or sculpins, darker colors, crawdads maybe as well. So, so I kind of think of it as a hybrid between streamer fishing and nymphing. 00:12:36 Speaker 3: Um. 00:12:37 Justin: You know, we’re going to be fishing in some areas maybe six, seven feet under that indicator in some of the deeper holes. And, you know, I like to put it under an indicator as opposed to just stripping it because you can get a longer drift. You pop your indicator up out of the water, and rainbow trout really love to see a jig bait. So whether we’re fishing, we might be fishing a San Juan worm dropper off one of our our marabou jigs. But when they see that thing move, they they’re going to grab it. So we’d like to give it a lot of action. Um fishing that way. Also if you come across where a smallmouth sitting he’s going to bite it the same way. So. Oh right. So you know, we’re going to do that on every trip. That’s probably how we’re going to start out fishing those. And if they’re biting those and liking to see it move, we a lot of times we’re going to stick with that all day long. 00:13:26 Dave: Yeah that’s amazing. What is the, um what’s the setup for setting up the jig? Uh, you know, kind of the rod kind of wait and then talk about the jigs you’re using. 00:13:37 Justin: Yeah, we like a five or a six weight rod. You know, something that’s going to be able to chuck a kind of chuck and duck with these jigs. 00:13:45 Dave: Like a nine foot or do you do something longer? 00:13:47 Justin: Yeah, we’re usually using a nine foot. I think a ten foot would probably be fine too. But, you know, just the standard stuff that everybody has pretty much works great. And then we’re going to put a floating line with a, oh, I usually just take a probably a six foot section of maybe straight fifteen pound, um, monofilament to a tippet ring. I’ve kind of started doing that just because I always used a tapered leader in the past. But, you know, people are going to get wind knots and everything else. So it’s a lot cheaper just to use a little bit of a straight mono and then and then just tie a oh. Usually in the spring we can get away with three x tippet to your main fly, maybe four x to your dropper, and then then just kind of downsize that as the water clears up. Right now water’s clear. So we’re fishing for X to the main fly and five x to the dropper. And usually we don’t have to go any lighter than that. And then just adjusting. Adjusting that indicator to the depth of the water, which, you know, the new Oros indicators or the or the ones from air lock make it really easy to change depth. So we’re changing depths a hundred times a day probably. 00:14:58 Dave: Yeah. You are. Okay. So you’re getting keyed in. And what is the the water you’re looking for. Are you fishing pools and riffles or is it more deeper water? 00:15:06 Justin: You know the wonderful thing about the eleven point? We’ve got fish in every kind of water. There’s natural reproduction occurs, not just a ton of wild fish, but enough that they keep the riffles productive. If people want to get out and wade fish, which most people don’t. But some people like to, and we can get out and find some fish in the fast water. Usually those are going to be your wild fish that have that have reproduced naturally in the river. And then then they’re going to be in the pools. As long as you’ve got a little bit of movement to the water, you know, these fish can sit anywhere in this river. It stays cool enough that that usually oxygen isn’t an issue. So yeah, you can find them in some really strange areas, but, you know, just the moderate current a little bit deeper here. And then the tail outs of course are going to have quite a few fish too. 00:15:53 Dave: So okay. And where would you find more of some of the bigger fish and what is out there. What would be a nice bigger size fish? Or maybe what’s the average what’s a bigger fish? 00:16:02 Speaker 4: You know, your average. 00:16:03 Justin: Fish is going to be probably thirteen to fifteen inches, I would say, you know, just a nice solid fish. I was talking to the biologist just the other day about we just don’t see a whole lot of big fish in the river, other than maybe the ones that the conservation Department stocks. Um, you know, and I was talking to him. We don’t really know why. You know, it seems like twenty inch wild fish. You don’t see just a lot bigger than that. So, you know, you’ve every few trips we’ll catch fish over eighteen inches, but most of the time you’re just going to catch a whole lot of, of, say, thirteen to sixteen inch fish, you know, some smaller. We usually get a few seventeen inches each trip, but, you know, just fun size fish. You’re not going to come to the eleven point hoping to catch a giant, that’s for sure. 00:16:51 Dave: Check out Jackson Hole Fly Company today. Premium fly gear straight to your door without the premium price. Jackson Hole Fly Company designs and builds their own fly rods, reels, flies and gear, delivering quality you can trust at prices that let you fish more and spend less. Whether you’re picking up a fly rod for the first time or guiding every day, they’ve got what you need. Check them out. Right now. That’s Jackson Hole fly company, Jackson Hole fly company. Com fish to Fly Guide service is dedicated to sharing the incredible fly fishing opportunities around Jackson Hole. Whether floating the scenic snake River in search of native cutthroat trout, or hiking into the mountains to explore pristine tributaries, every day on the water is an adventure. You can join them for an unforgettable fly fishing experience in the heart of the Tetons at Fish to Fly. Com. How is that different? It’s interesting because we’ve heard about you know, there’s all obviously all places are different all around the country. You know from catching, you know, four inch fish up to, you know, whatever forty inch fish. But you know, the white River you mentioned is down in the system south, you know, you have to go down into kind of Arkansas. And I guess it’s because it’s a tail water, but it’s known as one of the maybe the greatest rivers as far as producing these massive fish. What do you think? What’s the difference between, say, the white River down in Arkansas and where you’re at and maybe just some of the other areas? Is it just one’s a tailwater and one’s a yours is more of a spring. Is it a spring creek or a freestone? 00:18:19 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:18:19 Justin: We’re a spring fed creek that I guess. Yeah. That’s like right now I think the spring is pumping about three hundred and fifty cubic feet per second. Um, the spring that makes it the trout part, you know, above it, there’s water coming in. And then I want to say about twenty miles down, there’s another water gauge and it’s, it’s at maybe six hundred and fifty cubic feet per second right now. So you know, about half of the the eleven points water at these lower conditions are coming from the spring itself. You know, other than that it’s a, you know, a, a freestone river that just it’s only affected by the spring and rainwater. So, you know, you get a big rain event, it’s going to bump it up quite a bit. Whereas the, you know, the tail waters, they’re just a, a larger especially the white River. It’s a huge river. You know, it might fluctuate from a thousand cubic feet per second to twenty thousand cubic feet per second in just a few hours when they turn the generators on. And I don’t know if those big browns down there, I think they probably really get big on, you know, there’s quite a bit of natural forage there, but they’re going to eat a lot of those stocked rainbows too, I think. And so yeah, I couldn’t really tell you why the white grows them so much bigger than, than the eleven point. But a part of it is they have the brown trout and we don’t. 00:19:41 Dave: Oh right. Yeah. You have the rainbows, right. Exactly. Yeah. But it sounds like there’s pretty solid there. I mean, thirteen and fifteen inches is definitely a solid fish. I could, you know, be okay catching those all day long. Right. 00:19:51 Justin: Yeah. There’s nothing wrong with that. 00:19:53 Dave: Yeah. Um, but so back on the jigging. So you have your setup with your float. Is it floating line. Is that typically what you’re using? 00:20:01 Justin: Yeah, we’re using floating line. 00:20:02 Dave: Yeah. So floating line you have your jig set up. You have your your leader your indicator. And then what are you doing. Are you casting, you know, upstream and letting it go and talk about where you’re casting and how you’re jigging it, the motion. 00:20:15 Justin: So most of the time we’re going to be drifting with the current, um, unless we’re really picking apart a place, you know, with a guy in the front and back, I find it easier and less tangles if I just kind of drift with the current, let them fish it, and then. And then if we hit a good spot, you know, I’ll row the boat back up. And typically on the eleven point, I can roll back up in most of the good areas and we can hit it multiple times, um, depending on, you know, the skill level of the anglers. If we can slow down a little bit, I’ll have them toss it upstream just a little and let it float by the boat, and then we’ll let it swing at the tail end. The guy in the front can really let it swing, and we catch a lot of fish on the swing. As that jig starts coming up off the bottom. Those fish think it’s getting away and they and they grab it that way. But you know, I try to make it as, as easy as possible for people to not have to work too hard to catch these fish, but we’ll be growing up to where the riffle kind of drops into a deeper run. And usually we start right there and just fish it on through the hole until it gets too shallow to fish again. And, you know, if the fish are biting in that particular area, we’ll hit that one several times until we move on. 00:21:23 Dave: Yeah. Until you move on. And and the technique, uh, so you make the cast and what is the. So you’ve got the jig, the actual jig with the jig hook on it. It sounds like, what is the motion you’re making with your rod or your hand on the to get a take. And do they take while you’re making the motion up, or do they take on the pause? When do they hit it? 00:21:41 Justin: So usually if somebody needing to make a mend, what I’ll have them do is I’ll have them kind of do an exaggerated mend to where it pops that indicator up out of the water. You know, three, four or five inches. You really can’t jump it too much. And then a lot of times those fish are going to grab it as that is that jigs falling in the water column. So you know that that indicator is going to land back on the water. And then sometimes it’s just going to keep going down, and that’s when the fish is going to grab it. And then some of that slower water, you’ll just barely see it. You know, that indicator might just pause or it might you might think it’s not floating quite right. And in the slow water the fish bite it real subtly a lot of the times. So you know, if anything’s going on. I just have the guys go ahead and set the hook just in case. And, and uh, we just kind of repeat that. And if the jigs aren’t working, then we’ll put on a patch, of rubber legs or something like that. You know, in all your typical nymphs are going to work too, as droppers. So the fish aren’t real picky here. 00:22:43 Dave: Yeah. They’re not, they’re not. It sounds like it’s pretty easy. And are there other, uh, other guides, other people fishing float in the river? What does that look like out there? 00:22:52 Justin: I’m kind of the only fly fishing guide on the river. We do have some guides on rivers, um, in the area. That’ll bring clients down as well, but I don’t see many of them out there. It’s so isolated from some of the other rivers that a lot of those guys will just have their clients call me to take them on the eleven point as well. Um, so, you know, typically on a day out there, we may be the only people out there fly fishing. We might see a few people drifting by in canoes and kayaks that are throwing some spinning gear. And it’s just a real it’s a fairly tough river to wade fish. So fishing from the drift boat is by far the best way to catch trout and smallmouth in the eleven point it is. 00:23:33 Dave: And are you doing an equal amount of smallmouth and trout trips, or are you just kind of doing them together at the same time? 00:23:39 Justin: They’re kind of combined. When we when we’re fishing with those jigs, it’s the best way to catch both species. So most people are coming down to catch trout. And, you know, they’re more than happy to catch smallmouth along with it. So the one exception to that would be this time of year is the water cools off, the smallmouth will move to specific areas, and depending on the water levels, we can kind of target them knowing where they kind of like to winter this time of year. And so we need a little more water in the river. I’ve got a list of clients that want to do that as soon as the water gets right. And so hopefully we’ll get some rain and little precipitation to bring the river up and get it just a little off color, because those smallmouth are really spooky. They don’t like the clear water at all. So, you know, we get a little color on the river and, uh, there’s a few holes that it can just be, you know, we can really put the hammer to him in the wintertime, but it’s not in every winter thing for sure. We just got to kind of wait for the water to get right, and sometimes the window might only be a few days. So I’ll make a bunch of phone calls, and some of my retirees can jump down real quick and and get out for a day. But so that’s kind of what we’re waiting on right now. 00:24:51 Dave: Okay. And the boats you’re using, are you using like a drift boat or what’s your boat of choice? 00:24:56 Justin: Yeah, I, I, uh, guide out of a predator drift boat, which is made down in midway, Arkansas. The same company, Shawnee Supreme. That makes a lot of the. 00:25:06 Dave: Yeah, yeah. The big the the long the the the really specialized narrow, long drift boats. 00:25:12 Justin: Exactly. Yeah. They mine is actually a drift. It’s kind of a skiff that they make. But yeah, they do all the we call them trout boats or trout johns that they use on the white River. So this is a different style of boat, more like a headhunter skiff maybe, or something that you might be familiar with. 00:25:27 Dave: Yeah. Yeah, it’s like a skiff. It’s kind of like a skiff. More of a. Yeah, like something you’d have. Yeah, exactly. Okay. More of a almost not totally flat bottom, but just more like a drift boat, but skiff style. 00:25:38 Justin: Yep. We just don’t have the big wave, so we’re not worried about getting wet? No. Unless the water’s real high, you know, we’re not going to take water over the side too much. So it’s. It’s a little more convenient to get in and out of a skiff, and the wind doesn’t affect it quite as much. And. Yeah. So it’s just perfect for Ozark rivers. There’s only a few rivers in the Ozarks that are big enough for for drift boats, and it works great for those. 00:26:01 Dave: That’s it. And then canoe wise, when you guys had your canoe rental, did you find a lot of people using canoes? Anybody using them for fly fishing out there? 00:26:11 Justin: Yeah, a little bit. You know, it seemed like more people would probably take kayaks that were wanting to fly fish. Okay. And kayaks really. Everybody’s taking kayaks or rafts anymore. You know, you still get some canoes, but it’s really shifted into kayaking and rafting. 00:26:28 Dave: Oh, right. The kayak, because kayaks have gotten so specialized and the canoe is just kind of a more of a I don’t know what is it? It’s a little older school. It’s it’s bigger. Exactly. Yeah. 00:26:37 Justin: You can put a cooler of beer in there easier. 00:26:39 Dave: That’s the nice thing about the canoe. So yeah, the canoe is better for that if you’re doing a big or a bigger trip or something like that. Are you guys doing anything on the eleven point? Can you do like a a multi. Could you camp and do some overnight stuff out there. 00:26:50 Justin: Yeah it’s a great river for that. They’ve uh the Forest Service has set up some designated float camps that may have picnic tables and a place to hang your lanterns and stuff like that. Firings. Maybe you don’t necessarily know how well they’ve been taken care of year to year, but you’re allowed to camp anywhere along the river as well. So, you know, there’s some good gravel bars to camp on, which is where I prefer to camp if I’m going on an overnight. 00:27:18 Dave: Yeah. Have you guys done that? Would you offer are there clients that have you’ve done that with your clients? You know. 00:27:23 Justin: We’ve tried to set up a few of those and, uh, you know, it’s just, uh, not a whole lot of people want to do it. Yeah. And I’ve been approached by a few other guides and I say, yeah, I’m fully willing, but I don’t want to be the one setting up camp and cooking and doing all that stuff. 00:27:37 Dave: No, don’t do that. No. 00:27:39 Justin: But yeah, I’ve done it. You know, me and my son have done it several times, you know, just the two of us. But it’s a there’s a lot of people that do it recreationally. 00:27:48 Dave: Sure. 00:27:49 Justin: In the summertime, you know, you’ll see a lot of camps as you float down the river. And it’s a wonderful thing to do. Mix in some fishing with some camping and and beer drinking. 00:28:00 Dave: And yeah. 00:28:01 Justin: It’s a unique thing to the Ozarks. It’s a lot of fun. 00:28:04 Dave: That is cool. Yeah. There’s nothing like a good river trip. And like you’re saying there. Well, let’s hear a little bit more. Let’s go out. Um, higher level, kind of a broader picture. And I have a blog post that I’ve, uh, I’ve got here. This is from drift com. Um, and they talk about some of the best places to fish in Missouri. I’d love to hear what your thoughts are on that. When you look at Missouri, overall, it sounds like, you know, we’re down in the southern central part of Missouri. What do you think are the other top? What would you say? Just Missouri in general. Take out, you know, Arkansas. Just thinking of the state of Missouri. What are the is the eleven point like one of the best places for fishing for you know, I guess trout or bass. 00:28:40 Justin: You know, the way I’m doing it, it is one of the better places to go. Like I was saying earlier, it’s really best fished out of a drift boat. So, you know, if I was just a guy wanting to go trout fishing in Missouri, that’s probably not the first place I would go just because it’s pretty large and a little bit intimidating. And without really knowing what you’re doing, you’re going to catch fish, but you’re you’re maybe not going to have the experience you were hoping for unless you get a guide. And yeah, you know, somebody that really knows where the fish are sitting because it’s just kind of a hard, yeah, a hard thing to read. But as a trout fisherman, one cool thing that Missouri has or and we touched on it a little bit ago, is the trout parks, which there’s four trout parks in Missouri. I think three of them started back in the the nineteen thirties, I think, um, the Civilian Conservation Corps went in and built cabins and, and, you know, made some improvements, campgrounds and stuff like that. So they’re all located on, on fairly large springs, and then they stock them in the summertime on a daily basis. So it’s very put and take um, yeah. You know, it’s not everybody’s cup of tea, but it’s a great place to get started fly fishing. Everybody at the trout parks are friendly. And, you know, a lot of people are willing to help. It’s not all fly fishing, but there are a lot of fly fishermen there. Um, most of the trout parks have a fly shop nearby so they can get you hooked up with what to do. And, you know, a great place to take the family. Um, you’ll see kids playing in the creek while dads are fishing and, you know, moms are reading a book or fishing as well. And, uh, right. Just a really cool thing that Missouri offers, you know, especially for for the social aspect and as you’re getting started fly fishing. And then a lot of those trout parks flow into rivers that offer some trout fishing outside of the park. So the current river is a great great wade fishing trout River, uh, they offer browns and rainbows there so it can be busy at times. It’s probably the best trout fishing. Um, it’s still several hours from Saint Louis, but a lot of Saint Louis people like to go. It’s called the Trout park. There is Montauk. And then, uh, you can fish outside the park. Really good. Wade fishing and, um. Yeah, just a neat, neat river in the current river, then turns into a really good smallmouth river as well. So I believe it’s a designated it’s not a wild and scenic riverway. I think it’s an Ozark Scenic Riverway. So it has a really kind of a special designation as well. And then, uh, you’ve got the Jacks Fork River, which is it’s all smallmouth also, uh, Ozark Scenic Riverway. Big gravel bars. You know, nice clear water. A lot of these, like the current and Jacks Fork. There are very popular recreational. Um, yeah. Recreational. So you’re going to deal with a lot of floaters in the summertime. So you’ve just kind of got to watch where you go and when. But, you know, there’s just every river in Missouri is going to have smallmouth in it. So. Okay. Or in, in the Ozarks anyway. And so, you know, out west you cross every river and you think about the trout in there. And here you cross over rivers and creeks and, and think smallmouth. 00:31:57 Dave: So yeah. That’s right. And there’s some pretty good smallmouth fishing. You get some pretty good sized smallmouth down there. 00:32:03 Justin: Yeah, we really do. Um, in the eleven point, you know, we get a lot of, I think maybe fifteen to twenty percent of smallmouth that they sample are are over fifteen inches. So, you know, a fifteen inch smallmouth is going to pull like a eighteen inch trout. You know, they’re just so much fun. And then I think this year I’ve seen a couple seventeen inch smallmouth come out of the river. Maybe the biggest I’ve seen is is nineteen inches, but you hear about twenty inches pretty often, especially kind of in the northern Ozarks where you’ve got a little bit slower, deeper streams. 00:32:41 Dave: Right. 00:32:42 Justin: But then we’ve got I actually live on the North Fork of the white River, which, as I said earlier, we had a big flood in twenty seventeen. It really widened the river out. It’s not, you know, it’s just not as neat as it used to be, but it still holds some really nice rainbows. All the rainbows on the North Fork are are wild reproducing. They don’t stock rainbows here at all. So when you do catch one, they’re strong, good fighting fish. They’re going to be in the fast water. And uh, they also stock brown trout in the North Fork. So you’ve got the potential to catch some good brown trout as well. We streamer fish a lot for them. Um, we do get striped bass. Come out of Norfolk Lake up into the North Fork of the white also so that, you know, it’s a a very specific fishery. But in the spring and early summer, when the water is still kind of murky, you can get on those striped bass and catch some of those if you’re willing to put your time in. Okay. And some of those are going to weigh up to twenty to thirty pounds. You know, a thirty inch striper is not uncommon at all, with forty to fifty inch fish being seen on occasion. 00:33:53 Dave: Right, right. That’s awesome. Well, you mentioned a few. Maybe we can go back and, uh, we can. I love doing this with our drift hook. Um, blog post. This is, um, I mentioned driftwood, and they’ve got the twenty places, uh, best places to fish. Let’s throw a few of these and see if you know of these. If they’re on track here on some names. I think you already mentioned a few of them, and I don’t think these are necessarily any order, but one here at the top. Um, the first one is the Barren Fork Creek. Are you familiar with that one? 00:34:21 Speaker 5: Uh, yes. Yeah. 00:34:22 Justin: That’s something I haven’t touched on, is the Department of Conservation here in Missouri has a, I believe they call it the Blue Ribbon Trout Challenge or Blue Ribbon Trout Slam or something like that. So we’ve got there’s nine rivers and creeks in Missouri designated as blue ribbon trout areas. I believe nine is the right number. But the barren fork is one of those. The barren fork. I’ve never been to it, but I hear it’s, uh, you know, it’s a fairly small creek. I hear it’s one of the tougher ones to catch a fish in. Out of all the Blue ribbon creeks. But your Blue Ribbon creeks are going to have wild natural reproduction and, you know, have some of the best habitat for trout in the state, even though they’re not native fish. Right. Um, some of those they may stock them in, but I think mostly they’re wild, wild fish in these smaller creeks. So yeah, that’s going to be the barren fork, the little piney. Yeah. Um, what are some of the other ones, uh, Mill Creek maybe. 00:35:20 Dave: Okay. Yeah, yeah, there’s probably some of these other ones that we could mention here. I think the number two here is Bennett Spring State Park. 00:35:27 Justin: Okay. Yeah. That’s one of the trout parks that we talked about before. 00:35:30 Dave: Okay. That’s a trout park. 00:35:31 Justin: Yep. Exactly. 00:35:33 Dave: Gotcha. 00:35:33 Justin: And that one I believe flows into the Niagara River. And then there’s a little bit of trout fishing outside the park there as well. And then the Niagara was also a really good smallmouth river as well. 00:35:46 Dave: Quick shout out to today’s sponsor AVC rig. They’re the team in Loveland, Colorado, turning regular vans into full blown adventure machines looking for a full build from the ground up, or just their killer aluminum cabinetry and storage systems, AVC rig helps you create a setup that’s lightweight, rock solid, and built for life on the road. Perfect for anyone chasing fish and wild places. And here’s the best part they’ll be at the Denver Fly Fishing show so you can step inside their rigs, meet the crew, and see what makes their work so dialed in. Stop by, say hi, and let them know you heard about them on the Swing podcast. And if you want to learn more right now and start planning your dream rig, go to AVC rig. That’s AVC rig. Com. Albert. Victor Conrad rig. Com AVC rig. Check em out now. And the trout parks are essentially their sections of stream where they have hatcheries in the. The state basically just puts a lot of hatchery fish. Is that what makes it a trout park? Yeah. Yeah. 00:36:48 Justin: Yep. Exactly. There. There’ll be a spring that flows into a little spring branch before it reaches the main river most of the time. So you’ll be fishing along the spring branches of these areas. And yeah, most of those, they’ve put. 00:36:59 Dave: Okay. 00:37:00 Justin: Hatcheries and and those hatcheries help supply fish, you know, around the state as well. So it’s a really neat, really neat thing right now they’re going through a lot of rebuilding of the hatcheries because they’ve finally flooded enough times that they realize they’re not high enough anymore. 00:37:17 Dave: So they’re not high enough. Right. Get out of the river. Yeah. 00:37:21 Justin: Yeah. So, um, one that’s on your list. That’s kind of a neat one. Is Crane Creek. Okay, um, I assume it’s probably on there somewhere, but it’s a Blue Ribbon Creek as well. 00:37:30 Dave: Oh, yeah, I see it. Yeah. Crane Creek, we have number five. Yeah, I see it here. Okay. 00:37:34 Justin: The rumor out there is that it has McLeod strain rainbows specifically. 00:37:41 Dave: That’s right. Yeah. Red band. These are red band. Rainbow. 00:37:44 Justin: Yeah. And, uh, you know, that’s been there long enough that they’ve probably developed into their own strain at this point. So they’re probably not identical to McLeod’s. But Missouri in general has a lot of red band genetics in it, which is really cool. You know, the trout here in the North Fork of the white, they’ll hold their PA marks till they’re, you know, ten eleven inches long, which I think is kind of a red band characteristic. So yeah, places like Crane Creek, people like to go there and say they’ve caught their McLeod rainbows, whether or not they’re I believe there’s a genetic study out right now that I’ve not seen the results to, but they’ve kind of been testing some of these strains in Missouri to see what they actually are. 00:38:24 Dave: Yeah. Gotcha. Wow. This is great. Yeah. No, I think we got this. Let’s go through a few more of these just to highlight. And I think most of these are all these so far kind of in that southern part south of, uh, you know, the big cities. 00:38:36 Justin: Yeah. Mostly south of Interstate forty four I think are right around that. 00:38:40 Dave: Interstate forty four, which cuts down from basically Saint Louis down to Springfield. Right? Forty four yeah. So that’s what we’re looking at. And then as you get up higher, like, say north of Kansas City, Saint Louis, you just get into more of the kind of open range, more kind of what like farmland type habitat. 00:38:57 Justin: Yeah, that’s going to be farmland, you know, muddier creeks that, you know, are going to have some more of your warm water species. 00:39:04 Dave: Um, yeah. 00:39:05 Justin: Gotcha. Yeah. And most people, you know, those people don’t think of those quite as for the recreational opportunity as they do the clear waters of the Ozarks for sure. 00:39:14 Dave: Yeah. That’s right. Okay. So we mentioned Bennett Springs. So yeah it says right here Bennett flows into the Niangua River. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Niangua Niangua that’s the trout park. And then another one here is, uh, Blue Springs Creek. Do you know that one? 00:39:27 Justin: Yeah, that’s another little creek. Kind of like the Barren Fork or or the little Piney and that sort of thing. So, yeah, that’s just going to be another one of those little ones. And I can’t, you know, on those little creeks, you’ve got to downsize your stuff and really sneak around. 00:39:41 Dave: Right. 00:39:41 Justin: You know, probably it’s more like a, say, a driftless creek only. Yeah. You know, the topography is a lot different, but, uh, you know, kind of a mix between the little Colorado stream and a. 00:39:53 Dave: Oh, yeah. 00:39:54 Justin: And maybe the Driftless. If there was a hybrid of that, that’s what some of these little creeks are like. 00:39:58 Dave: So that’s cool. 00:39:59 Justin: Access can be a little bit tough on some of the smaller creeks. But um, you know, once you get in the creek, I think you’re allowed to kind of walk up and down them. You know, there’s a yeah, in Missouri, if it’s considered a navigable waterway, which is also kind of a fuzzy area. You’re able to stay below the high water mark, but, you know, depending on where you’re at, you can usually get a pretty good read. If there’s no trespassing signs and stuff like that, obviously you probably better not. 00:40:30 Dave: Yeah. 00:40:30 Justin: Test the waters. 00:40:31 Dave: But well, one thing that’s probably helpful out there is using the Trout Routes app, right, is you can actually figure out where the public access points are and get some of that knowledge there. But um, but yeah. So the Blue Springs Creek, I see it now and uh, and Matt, their drift cook, has a couple flies he mentions for all these two. He says the parachute Adams sixteen. The bar emerger number size twenty. And you know so those are a couple of good patterns. The bar merger is one I’ve heard about before. But it looks like small stuff is what’s key there. And then you mentioned another one here is number four Capps Creek. You mentioned that one I think, right. 00:41:04 Justin: Yeah. Capps Creek is another of those little guys. I’ve not been there. But yeah, same sort of deal. You know, you’ve got to kind of downsize your tippet and your flies and really sneak around. Yep. Yeah. In Missouri, we really don’t get a whole lot of dry fly action, but some of these smaller creeks can give you some of that. So, you know, hopper dropper type stuff. Yeah. Might be a good way to go on some of those creeks. But yeah we’ve got we get huge hatches of caddis and, and bluing olives and tricos. But it’s just seldom you see especially on like the eleven point or the North Fork, you just don’t see fish coming up to them at all. 00:41:43 Dave: Yeah. You don’t. Okay. And just kind of round this out. We mentioned, uh, so number five, Crane Creek, we got uh, current river. You mentioned, uh, the eleven point, of course. Uh, that’s on the list. Um, see Hickory Creek, Lake Taneycomo. 00:41:59 Justin: Okay. So Lake Taneycomo is kind of a tailwater fishery that comes out of table Rock Lake. 00:42:04 Dave: Okay? 00:42:05 Justin: It’s dammed up at the bottom, too. So, you know, it’s almost like a it’s a little more like a lake than a river, I guess. But when they’re generating power, you’ve got some flow through there. Okay. I think it’s best to access with a boat, but there are some really big fish there. Um, you see guys going out of Lily’s landing down there that are, you know, they’re catching some big browns, some big rainbows. You know, it’s right near Branson, Missouri. So a great place to take the family. And, uh, especially if dad and mom and the kids, if they like to fish or just get out on a boat, or if, you know, you can split up and the kids can go see Silver Dollar City while dad goes fishing or. Yeah. But yeah, really neat, really good fishery. Um, but totally different than these natural creeks and streams for sure. 00:42:52 Dave: Yeah, the natural ones. Okay. And, uh, yeah, just a few more. You mentioned little piney’s on the list. We got, uh, the Meramec Spring Park. You mentioned that one. Um, the Meramec River. Yeah. So there’s a bunch. It sounds like, uh, drift hook. It sounds like they’re pretty much on track, covering probably most of the the the bigger places. Well, they cover small and big, but that list sounds like it’s pretty solid. 00:43:11 Justin: Yeah, it’s a pretty good list. 00:43:12 Dave: Good. Well, we’ll put a link to the show notes on that so people can take a look and dig deeper if they’re heading out there for you. You know, as you look at, you know, your clients that are coming out here, are you finding mostly local folks? Are you getting some people from out of state? Where are you finding kind of some of your new, new clients out there? 00:43:29 Justin: You know, most of my clients are going to be coming from some of the bigger cities around. Probably the Saint Louis is we’re about, I want to say, the eleven points between three and four hours from Saint Louis. So that’s where a lot of my clients come from. Um, and then kind of that corridor from Saint Louis up towards Chicago. I get, you know, quite a few from the Illinois side, you know, up towards Springfield, Illinois, and then out get some people from Indiana. Uh, Memphis is not too far away, so. 00:44:01 Dave: Oh, right. 00:44:02 Justin: You know, the Memphis area I get, we get, you know, we’re centrally located. So, you know, Kansas City is not too awful far away. Nothing’s too close, but nothing’s too far. 00:44:13 Dave: So, yeah, you are kind of in the central. Yeah. 00:44:15 Justin: Yeah. And then I get a lot of people that come back, you know, that used to live in the area that, you know, they say from Arizona or Dallas or, you know, they just like to get back. Maybe they don’t even have family here anymore. But, you know, they want to come back and show their friends from wherever they’re living currently, you know? Yeah. The allure of the Ozarks. So I get quite a few people from, you know, from all over the country. 00:44:39 Dave: That’s great. Well, let’s give a little, a little shout out here, uh, kind of to our local groups. Um, you know, and as we kind of start to take it out of here, are there any in your area? You know, there’s fly fishing groups around the country. Do you guys have some local groups out there or is there is there a fly shop nearby your area? 00:44:56 Speaker 6: So there’s not. 00:44:58 Justin: In our area, you know, on the North Fork of the white. I’m only about an hour away from the white River. So down there we’ve got several brick and mortar fly shops. Um, but they’re more catered to the tail waters down there, both Norfolk and the white. There is a new fly shop up in Rolla, Missouri, which Rolla is a great jumping off point for a lot of those smaller creeks you were talking about. 00:45:23 Dave: Like, yeah. 00:45:23 Justin: Like the little Piney and and Mill Creek and that sort of thing. So there is a new fly shop in Rolla called a White Buffalo Fly Shop. And I just got in there for the first time, maybe two weeks ago. Oh, cool. And, uh, so they’re starting to have some tying nights and, uh, and things like that. So, you know, people in the area, if you’re coming down to fish, that’s a great place to stop. You know, it’s right on I-44. So a lot of people are going to come through Rolla on the way to a lot of the different trout waters down here. But yeah, then you’ve got a couple fly shops in Saint Louis. Feather craft that you may have heard of, may have got the catalog from them. And then Hargrove’s is kind of the local, the local hangout with, uh, that offer a lot of good stuff, a lot of good information as well. So those two places are great. 00:46:12 Dave: Okay. 00:46:13 Justin: But yeah, those are kind of the main brick and mortar things in the area. But yeah, they’re just not as much good fly fishing as there is in the area. There’s just it’s just not utilized very heavily. 00:46:25 Dave: So which is good. And a lot of ways right for you guys. 00:46:28 Justin: Is if. 00:46:29 Dave: You’re not crowded. 00:46:30 Justin: Out. Yeah it’s wonderful. 00:46:32 Dave: Yeah. And are there also local fly fishing clubs or groups out there? 00:46:35 Speaker 6: Uh, mostly. 00:46:37 Justin: Uh, Springfield has one, um, which we’re located, you know, a little over two hours from Springfield. Uh, Saint Louis has a Trout Unlimited chapter as well as, uh. Oh. The the names of these clubs are kind of local. Yeah, I can’t remember. Uh, but there are several. But again, those are more in the cities. Most of the local people out here in the rural areas, they just don’t really fly fish. So, you know, once the tourist season is over, the rivers just kind of fall silent unless the weather’s good and guys want to make a little trip from the city. 00:47:12 Dave: Yeah, that makes sense. So, yeah, it makes sense where you’re at. So you’ve got people coming down, you know, the big population, Saint Louis, Kansas City, but then also even further from Chicago. If people want to get out and don’t want to go north to the Driftless, they can take a nice drive down and hit forty four and go into the Ozarks, which is kind of a I mean, what makes the Ozarks kind of a famous area? It’s a name that you, you know, we all have heard of. I mean, of course, there’s been the crazy the Show Bateman show that went out on the Ozarks, which was, you know, that whole thing. But what is it about the Ozarks that makes it kind of famous? 00:47:43 Speaker 6: Uh, I. 00:47:43 Justin: Think a lot of it does have to do with the water and the springs. And, you know, you just don’t find areas in the center of the country that have so much clean, clear water. And, you know, you don’t. When we’re on the eleven point, you know, you’re not hearing road noise. You’re just hearing, you know, crows and woodpeckers and, you know, it’s just, uh, It’s the natural environment. I think that makes it what it is. You know, the Buffalo River is just over the border down in Arkansas, and it’s a famous floating stream with absolutely beautiful, you know, one hundred foot tall bluffs right along the river and. Right, you know, you just have to get here and float down one of these rivers to really understand the allure of it, I think. 00:48:28 Dave: Yeah. Just get the experience. That’s awesome. Well, give us a couple before we get out of here. A couple tips on. We’ve been talking trout fishing, but let’s switch it to bass a little bit. And with the bass, are you also doing that whole jig technique that we talked about? 00:48:40 Justin: Yeah, that’s how we’re catching most of them when I’m guiding. Just because, you know, the main thing we’re trying to do is catch trout. So that works great for them. But at the same time the smallmouth will eat those jigs as well. Um, and we’ve done that on Crooked Creek and some of the other rivers nearby that where we are maybe targeting smallmouth specifically. But, you know, there’s so many different methods to catch smallmouth on fly most of its streamer fishing probably. You know some of your smaller streamers. I know a buddy of mine and I went out with some burglars a couple summers ago, and just tossing those up near the banks on on one of our little local creeks here and, uh, you know, catching a lot of smallmouth doing that. So, um, you know, just I’d say most of your techniques for smallmouth are going to work, you know, in the Ozarks, it’s just a matter of of trying to find some of those rivers that maybe aren’t as clear as the others. You know, from an aesthetic standpoint, the clear rivers are beautiful to float down. But from a fisherman standpoint, you like to see just a little color in the water so that the fish aren’t quite so spooky. 00:49:46 Dave: Yeah, definitely. Well, this is this is awesome. 00:49:49 Justin: The the cicada hatch was one example of of when we finally did have some dry fly fishing. And you know, when you can get them coming to the top. It’s more fun than anything. So you know that gurgler fishing for any kind of topwater stuff for smallmouth can be a lot of fun. 00:50:05 Dave: Yeah. Did you hit the. You guys had the cicada this last year? That hit pretty good there. 00:50:09 Justin: Yeah we did. We got on him for maybe two to three weeks on the eleven point. And then we had a flood that came in and you know, the water got muddy for a couple more weeks. And by the time it cleared up it was done. But yeah, yeah, for about three weeks we were fishing nothing but big cicada patterns and, you know, catching maybe forty, fifty fish on them a day and missing just as many as we were catching, which was so odd on a river that never sees any fish come to the top right, doing nothing but that for a while it got I had some new clients during that time. I said, don’t expect us ever to do this again, but enjoy it. Or at least thirteen more years maybe. 00:50:46 Dave: Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. That’s cool. Well, good. Well, give us a maybe a tip or two as again thinking about fishing that technique. You know, if we’re somebody listening now they’re going to be setting this up. What are a couple of things you’re telling them to have more success out there as far as using the jig setup? 00:51:02 Justin: I think the main thing is just try to keep that jig down deep, but at the same time you want to, you know, keep it moving somewhat too. So I just tell my guys, you know, if we’re fishing six feet deep, you know, you make your cast out there, let it sink to the bottom, which may take, you know, 10s or so. And then then every five seconds I’m wanting them to either if they need to mend it, jump that thing on the mend. If you don’t need to mend it, just pop that indicator up in the air two or three inches and just do that every five to 10s. 00:51:35 Dave: All right. That’s all you’re doing? Yep. So you’re popping up two or three inches just to you’re near the bottom. So you get it down to the bottom where you feel it. And then you kind of how do you and then you adjust your bobber so it’s not on the bottom. 00:51:46 Justin: Yeah. I’m just kind of estimating, you know, I don’t want it right on the bottom. I want it maybe a foot or two off the bottom and then yeah, then I’m just wanting them to pop it and let it sink back down and they’ll eat it on the Dead Drift. But you’ll get ten times the bites if you keep it moving a little bit. And I think that’s the case with any flies in any situation. You know, we’re trying to get that dead drift to let that fly get down deep. But once it’s down there, I think the fish, even in the egg you see a stripped egg and they grab it. I don’t know if it’s a reaction thing, I think. 00:52:20 Dave: Right. What’s the craziest thing you’ve used on the that style that under the care that you’ve caught a fish on. 00:52:27 Justin: Oh, that’s a really good question. I’ve messed up tying things, leaving out. I think I was tying a Pat’s rubber legs and forgot the chenille. Yeah, right. Or didn’t forget it, but forgot to tie it in and then just ended up tying it with rubber legs on a hook shank with some. 00:52:42 Dave: Nice. 00:52:42 Justin: With some red thread. And the fishing was really good. And of course, you just kind of sneak that thing in on a client. You don’t really let them know that until you’ve caught a fish on it, that it was a messed up pattern. But yeah, that was one of the weirder things. And then I’ve kind of started using that particular pattern from time to time. It’s just nothing but a few rubber legs on a jig head. But you know when you’re out there every day, you really figure out how as hard as they can be to catch. Sometimes they’re not that smart of an animal. 00:53:12 Dave: No they’re not. I mean, that’s the great thing about it is that, yeah, there, at the end of the day, they’re just fish. 00:53:16 Justin: So yep. 00:53:17 Dave: This is good okay. And give us a couple just last thing here as we get out of here on, you know, a couple resources. If somebody was interested in maybe heading down that way or just, you know, in general, do you have any, um, you know, are you more into books, videos? What are a couple of things people could check out, maybe to learn about either that area or kind of fishing for trout or bass. 00:53:38 Justin: You know, I anytime I go anywhere, I jump on YouTube for sure and see if there’s any videos, um, on YouTube about fishing a particular stream or area. Um, it’s a little bit trickier. In the Ozarks. There’s not just a whole lot of stuff out there, but I’d probably start with YouTube. I know there are some videos on on some of those smaller creeks and stuff you were talking about as well? 00:54:01 Dave: Yeah. 00:54:01 Justin: And, you know, I always recommend and do this myself. Anytime you’ve got a brick and mortar fly shop in the area you want to go to, if you’re not driving by there, at least give them a phone call or something, you know, and talk to them that way. And yeah, it helps if you can show up and buy a few flies. And a lot of these are manned by the owner themselves. So if you can find the owner there, they’re going to give you all the scoop you want if they can sell you some flies. So definitely always try to get in and talk to your local fly shop. And uh, they’re going to give you the best information possible. Um, I’m always open to having people call and text me. I’m I’m as free with my information as I can be. Just because we don’t have the pressure down here I’m not worried about. 00:54:45 Dave: Oh, sure. So there’s a good resource if somebody wants to. If somebody’s heading down that your neck of the woods, they can just give you a call to. 00:54:51 Justin: Exactly. Yep. Yeah. Just go on my website and contact information there. I can we can get it maybe in the. 00:54:58 Dave: Yeah. Yeah. we’ll put in the show notes, too. 00:55:00 Justin: Yeah, I’m happy to talk. I love talking fishing. So I’m going to tell you what works. 00:55:05 Dave: Oh, good. Perfect. Yeah. You got your phone number right there at the top. I see at eleven point fly fishing. Awesome. This looks great. So people can check it out and and we’ll put all these resources in the show notes, um, on this episode today. Uh, but this has been awesome. Justin, appreciate you shedding some light on the Ozarks and what you have going here. And, uh, we’ll send everybody your way if they have questions or want to dig in deeper. But, yeah, appreciate all your time today and we’ll be in touch. 00:55:28 Justin: Sounds good. Thanks for having me on. And hopefully some people out there will think of Missouri when they think of taking a little fly fishing vacation in the future. 00:55:38 Dave: All right, before we take off today, I just want to give a big shout out to, uh, Justin. Uh, you can go to eleven point fly fishing right now and check in with him. If you’re interested in hearing more about our Wet Fly Swing Pro travel program, uh, you can go to Wet Fly Swing and sign up there, and we’ll follow up with you on details when that opens back up. Hope you enjoyed this one with all the great tips and tricks. We are heading to Montana this year. We’re heading to some of the spring creeks of Montana, some of the lesser known creeks of Montana that you probably haven’t heard of, and we’re going to be opening up the door today for that. So if you’re interested in fishing Montana with us, send me an email, Dave, at and I’ll check back with you on details. That’s open right now as we speak. We got a big event going on. Check in, uh, Montana fly fishing lodge. That’s where we’re headed. All right. Thanks again for stopping in today. Hope you’re having a great day. I hope you have a great evening or great morning wherever you are in the world, and we will see you on the next episode.
Conclusion with Justin Spencer on Fly Fishing the Eleven Point River
Missouri might not be the first place people think of for a fly fishing trip, but the Ozarks quietly deliver world-class water, solitude, and variety. From spring-fed trout rivers to smallmouth floats and wild camping, the Eleven Point shows what the middle of the country has to offer. All links, products, and host promises have been flagged inline throughout the post.
