The Drifthook Fly Selection System with Matt Bernhardt

WFS 935B Transcript 00:00:00 Dave: If you ever stood in a river staring at your fly box. Unsure what to tie. This one’s for you. Today we’re breaking down how to simplify fly selection. Why most patterns come back to a few key categories, and how to build confidence faster on the water. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast, where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Today I’ve got Matt Bernard on from Drift hook dot com, and today we’re going to find out what it was like founding this brand. How he got into fly design and his family history in guiding with his dad. We’re also going to find out a few tips, including how matching size and silhouette can matter more than imitation. We’re going to find out what the real reason is that anglers struggle with fly selection and what you can do about it. And also, he has a simple system. Instead of guessing every time that we’re going to talk about today, his system to find the right pattern and the difference between beginner, intermediate and advanced approaches to fly selection. Plus, we’re going to get into fly quality sourcing materials around the world and what Matt plans to expand into next. All right, let’s get into it. Let’s get this one going. Here he is Matt Bernat. You can find him at drift hook dot com. How you doing man? 00:01:20 Matt: Good man. How about yourself? 00:01:21 Dave: Good good good. This is exciting to finally get you on here. Drift hook dot com. We’ve been talking about you for years now. 00:01:28 Matt: I know. 00:01:28 Dave: Um, that just to have you on the podcast is pretty awesome because we’re going to hear your kind of your founder’s story, how you got into this. We’re going to talk about some tips and tricks. You got a ton of great content and flies. Obviously, we’ve been giving away your flies. We’ve been using your flies, you know, over the years. It’s been awesome. But maybe take us back. Uh, you know, right now what’s up to you? What are you up to this time of year? We’re kind of in. 00:01:48 Matt: Well, this time of year, we’re hoping for rain. We were hoping for snow. It’s been a real dry winter here in Colorado, which has been unfortunate, but hopefully this season will. We’ll get a little bit of rain. So. And we don’t have the big fires this summer. But, uh, you know, you’re talking about history. It’s kind of funny. Um, I remember you reaching out to me and I believe it was Covid because I was sitting in my bedroom and my kids were in the upstairs running around and you and me had a little, uh, conference call and geez, what was that six years ago? Now? 00:02:17 Dave: Wasn’t that long ago. It might have been. 00:02:18 Matt: It was. It’s crazy. 00:02:21 Dave: Yeah, that does fly. Well, the great thing is, is like you said, I think we do a lot about teaching people, helping people understand fly fishing. You do the same thing. You do a lot of, you know, blog writing, video content. Maybe talk about that. Where did take us back real quick on Drift Hook, how did this idea of drift, is this exactly what your first idea was of drift took? 00:02:40 Matt: So I’ve been fly fishing for numerous years. My, uh, my father was a guide. Um, I grew up in an area of Colorado, um, where it was kind of the forefront of fly fishing back in the seventies and the eighties. Um, and it was one of those things where you would always ask somebody, hey, what flower are they using? Or, you know, what are they hitting on? What should I be using? But you never really knew the knowledge behind it. And as I was kind of, you know, building the business, I thought to myself, hey, what is the hardest thing for a beginner fly fisherman? And because, well, what fly are you going to use? So after doing a lot of research, after looking around saying, you know what, we need to simplify this for the beginner fly fisherman, we need to be able to give them a kit, a set of flies where it’s labeled, where it’s where you’re knowing what hat you’re supposed to be matching, right? And that’s where the initial idea came from. Driftwood. We started with one little box. I had, I think forty five flies in it at the time. Um, now we’re up to, I think twelve different kits. Um, we have a couple great sellers, one that has one hundred and twenty flies that people love. It’s called our guidance kit, but it all kind of comes down to a system built to easily understand fly selection. So you have a better chance of success on the water. 00:03:46 Dave: Yep. That’s it. And that’s in Colorado. You hear a lot of those stories. How challenging the fly fishing is, right? Having the right Fly the in size to write to you on your flies. Do you? You know, you get into that where you’ve got some really small stuff, some really big stuff. How do you. Yeah. How do you decide what goes in these boxes? 00:04:03 Matt: Well, it really comes down to the species of the pattern, right? So say for instance, you have a mayfly. You’re not going to have a mayfly that’s an inch long, right? Because they don’t grow that big in certain areas. So initially what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to match the size of the species of the order in your area. Um, the cool thing about flies is really there’s only kind of five big categories that all flies are tied around, right? You have midges, you have caddis, you have mayfly, you have stonefly. And then you kind of get into more specialized ones like sowbugs, leech patterns, streamers, things like that. But if you look at, you know, the marketplace right now, there’s over six thousand different fly patterns that you can pick from, but really it’s kind of all designed or tied in these kind of categories. So really, as soon as you kind of know, hey, my area is, you know, heavy in mayflies this time of year, That’s where you can kind of narrow it down to the selection that’s going to work in your area. Um, and then it’s kind of just the fun part, right? Like, all right, oh man, this one looks really good. Let’s try it. Yeah. But really, it’s just kind of those patterns right there that are going to be what trout are going to be eating. 00:05:05 Dave: The key patterns. Yeah. We had, uh, Chris was on the podcast recently and he was talking about he was, he was in Colorado, I think he was fishing some small creeks up in Colorado. And he was, he was trying to get into the match in the hatch and was like the entomology and stuff. And nothing was working. He was like, you know what? He just pulled out a, uh, Adams parachute. Yeah, whatever, and threw it on and he started catching fish. 00:05:24 Matt: Yeah. No, there’s, there’s times where it’s more about the silhouette of the fly than it is the actual so detailed. Right? I mean, if you get the right size, shape and obviously the right drift, then, you know, try to be interested. Yeah. Now if you get into those picky tail waters where, you know, trout are being pounded all day long, that’s where you got to, you know, your technique and your fly selection have to be combined into one to, to catch those picky trout. 00:05:47 Dave: Yeah. That’s it. How do you, uh, you know, people are all around the country, you know, all around really the world too. But I mean, focus say North America, how do you choose, you know, do these flies apply East coast, West coast, kind of south all around it does. 00:06:02 Matt: It’s kind of funny. I mean, if you look at the history of fly tying, let’s just say it for the United States, for instance. Um, a lot of the ties were flies were originally tied on the East Coast. And then as people started traveling west, they’re bringing those patterns with them and trying them out on Western rivers. The funny thing is, is that, you know, a mayfly is a mayfly. The shape is the same. And those those hatches and those orders, those are traveling all over the United States. Right? So you might have a a different species of mayfly in Pennsylvania, but that mayfly in Colorado is going to have the same characteristics, right? Color might be slightly, slightly different size might be a little bit off. But if you look at the tie of a fly, you know, you’re gonna have that parachute wing, you’re gonna have those two tails and adult, you have three on a, on a, on a nymph pattern, right? So those characteristics are universal throughout those species. 00:06:52 Dave: Yeah. So they are so that’s that’s the thing is that there are slight variations depending on where you’re at regionally. But overall. And again, back to those patterns, the Adams parachute. We’ve heard a lot of them. The the missing link is one of these Mike Mercer type, you know, but it’s just a caddis. It’s a variation right, of some fly. And there are um elk hair caddis. All these things work all over the country. 00:07:12 Matt: That’s true. Yep. 00:07:13 Dave: That’s it. What is talk about. So you have these patterns which are beautiful. I mean you mentioned the boxes. The way you have the boxes set up are very they’re all labeled. They’re, uh, the boxes are it’s just, it’s a nice package, but you also do some content around some content online. Talk about how that connects to your flies. Like if somebody get a box, how could they use your online stuff? 00:07:33 Matt: Yeah. So the, the, another point when I was starting the business was like, okay, we’re giving them a product, but if we don’t teach them how to use that product, they’re just going to use it once, throw it out, they’re not going to tell their buddies, they’re not going to give it to a friend. So we built a system out. If you’ve never fly fished, we have, you know, twelve to thirteen videos that go from the basics. I mean, from what is a, what is a real what is a fly rod? What are the parts of a fly rod? What do you need to get out on the water? You know, the basic basic stuff. Um, also just basic casting a roll cast. You know, there’s short, digestible little videos that doesn’t take too long to watch, but it goes, oh, that’s what that means. Or that’s what, you know, a bobber is versus an indicator, things like that. Um, then we go into more of the system itself, right? We call it the driftwood fly fishing system where we’re explaining to you, okay, based on a hash chart, how are we going to select our flies for any month, any day that we go out on the water and we break it down just, you know, easy steps to so when you get to the water, you’re not like, oh man, I got five hundred flies here. What do I use? The system’s there for you. It just helps you break it down. So you’re not guessing when you get to the water. Um, and then we go into another set of videos. We got about ten to fifteen of those videos that are more advanced techniques, right? We’re going into different streamer techniques. We’re going into different type of rig setups for Nymphing, um, and dry fly techniques, hopper dropper, things like that. Now these are going to be lots of terms that if you’ve never fly fish, you’re going to be like, man, this is kind of overwhelming. That’s when I said, hey, let’s just break it down. Give them a short little video, explains a little bit about it, gives them enough for them to get out of the water to try it. And that’s what we kind of focus on. 00:09:10 Dave: So that’s your system. So you have the beginner of somebody who’s just brand new, but then you have these other systems where they can watch these videos to if they get a, like you said, your guide, your guide box guide. And is that, do you have is it a guide nymphs I can’t remember or is it kind of all guide flies right now? 00:09:25 Speaker 3: It’s uh, I, the way I like. 00:09:26 Matt: To break out my system is, is a nymph set, a dry fly set and a kind of a streamer set, right. Um, I also have a set that’s more of your hopper dropper, which is a different technique for those that don’t know about it, but I always recommend starting out in Nymphing. Um, I know that the dry fly aficionado’s out there are going to hate me for this, but it is going to be the fastest way for beginner to catch their first fish, right? And as soon as they catch that first fish, that’s when it gets exciting. You’re like, everything I put together is working right. So I always recommend people starting nymphing, starting with the basic nymphing with an indicator, and then you can move on to other things, and then you can move on to your dry fly techniques, hopper dropper, your streamer techniques, and then, you know, we’re even into advancing into Euro nymphing techniques. So we’re building systems for that as well because it is very popular, but it’s also very hard technique. A lot of people say it’s easy, but maybe they started out Euro nymphing. I started out as a typical, you know, two fly setup, nymphing type of rig growing up, right? As soon as Euro Nymphing kind of came into the scene, I remember when they were having the world championship on the Eagle River in gypsum, Colorado. Um, when they came to that, I got super interested in it. So, you know, I was like, I’m going to go out there. I saw these guys just slaying fish. You know, it took. It is tough. It is hard. I give a lot of respect for those those neuron emperors and those professional guides out there that are doing that stuff, because it’s not as easy as they make it look. 00:10:53 Speaker 3: So no. 00:10:53 Dave: No, exactly. You know, I’m the same as you. I came in, I left the old way, and then I started trying Euro nymphing and I was like, wow, this is not easy. I mean, it’s, it’s it’s a whole thing. 00:11:05 Matt: Yeah, it is. But it’s fun though. That’s what makes fly fishing fun, right? It’s like many you think, man, I got this. You can try a different technique and you can spend another week learning that and moving on to different fun types of things, you know? 00:11:18 Dave: Exactly. Yeah. We’ve had on the, on the podcast, I mentioned this a few times. It’s been kind of fun. We’ve been on podcasts with other, uh, other guests. We’ve been in some regions, some state around the country. And I’ll say, okay, let’s look at what drift hook has for the top places. So I’ll have these experts in Alabama and I’ll say, what are the top? And the funny thing is you’ve been pretty much spot on on this. Yeah. Where where do you, uh, how does that. Because that’s something you’ve got, right? You’re covering a lot of the state’s top places. 00:11:43 Matt: Yeah. So that was one of my goals a couple of years ago, was to research all fifty states and kind of give your, you know, bucket list places that you want to fish. Um, it’s been great. Uh, but it’s also been some people got really upset, right? 00:11:57 Dave: You’re like spot burning. 00:11:58 Matt: Oh, yeah. We’ve had some, uh, some people email saying, you know, you’re ruining fly fishing by calling out these locations. And I’m like, well, you know, I was able to find this information and to write about it. So it’s out there. But at the same time, you know, it’s, um, it was a fun little project. So if anybody wants to check those out, we have, uh, all fifty states. Um, and it kind of gives you lists. Um, and then you got to do your own research after that. 00:12:22 Dave: Cool. So, so you got that. And then, but I like the system. I think the system idea is, makes a lot of sense because we all, there’s always stuff to learn and then you forget and it’s always good to relearn stuff, right? So you have these systems are basically you get your flies. So if you’re brand new or even if you’re not, if you’ve been fishing for a while, but maybe you’re struggling, you can go get a a streamer or the stream. Is it? No. What’s the name of the box you have? 00:12:41 Matt: Uh, the streamer one or. 00:12:43 Dave: Yeah, the streamer. 00:12:44 Matt: We call it the streamer. Serge. 00:12:45 Dave: Yeah. The Serge. That’s what I thought. Yeah. Streamer. Serge. So you got. 00:12:47 Matt: To get kind of cutesy with our names. And now I look back at it. It doesn’t look good. Well, from a search engine type of thing. 00:12:53 Dave: Oh right. Serge. Yeah. But I. 00:12:55 Matt: You know, most of the time people just find us, find our brand and then they’re able to come in and say, oh, okay, they do make streamers. 00:13:01 Dave: So but there’s something to that with the name. I think just it sounds good. 00:13:05 Matt: Yeah. 00:13:05 Dave: Even if SEO streamer Serge sounds. 00:13:07 Matt: I think it’s more of my creative side that, um, I couldn’t just name it the streamer box. 00:13:12 Dave: No, no, Serge is way better. So you so you got this box that let’s say there haven’t done streamers before. They’re just getting into it. They could grab the streamer box, grab it with a bunch of great flies that work, and then go on to the, to your system. And in this system is this like a series of emails you send out, or do you just direct them to. 00:13:29 Matt: Know right now? I mean, it’s just if you go to the website, um, there is a free lessons section in. There is the three intermediate, beginner, intermediate and advanced um within those. Each one of those topics is kind of covered. If you’ve never streamer fished. I have a video for you right there if you want to learn some more advanced stuff. There’s also an advanced lesson. Um, and then with that, we talk about our flies, how to use them, how to cast them, when to fish them. Um, so it’s an all around kind of package for that. 00:13:56 Dave: It is okay. When you got, uh, when you got going back to the idea of drift hook when you’re, it sounds like your dad was a guide. You’ve had some of this experience when you, that initial idea of the fly box from there to where it is now and to maybe where it’s going to be in the next five years. Yeah. Is that about what you were thinking or is this what is what has it been like? 00:14:16 Matt: You know, when I first kind of got into this, I was thinking, you know, is anybody, anybody going to care about this? Like, is this going to resonate with with anyone, you know? So, um, I think that first couple of years was very exhilarating for me because people said, man, why didn’t I think of this? Or this is awesome. I need to buy five of these because I have grandkids that don’t know anything about this. Um, you know, I have some clients that they keep coming back every year because they’re like, hey, I just ran to my buddy I haven’t seen in years. I’m going to buy him this for a great Christmas gift. I go, that’s awesome. Here’s a discount code. Um, so I mean, just the community in general of, of fishermen. Uh, it’s awesome there. Everyone is super nice. Um, you know, there are some people out there that they get a little, you know, upset at times, but it usually has to deal with shipping. It’s usually nothing. 00:15:05 Dave: It’s, it didn’t come fast. It wasn’t like you’re right. Amazon. No, next day or same day. 00:15:11 Matt: Right. Exactly, exactly. So now we gotta remember that, uh, you know, we’re a family run business. We’re packing out half, you know, most of these fly boxes by our family, right? We’re doing this, you know, for, for our clients. Um, now our flies, they’re they’re tied. Not by us. I’d love to say I’m a fly tyer. That was my father. He’s fantastic. Um, he has that imagination. Um, he’s seventy five and still fly tying every day. Goes fishing every day. Um, you know, my hands are just. They just don’t work that way. You know, I can’t. I know my eyes or my hands. You know, I’m good at tying knots, uh, when the fly is tied. But tying a fly to me is, um, it’s a skill. It’s an art form. Um, I have a ton of respect for fly tyers. Um, so what I did when I was like, okay, now that I have my system, it’s like I got to find tires to, to be able to do a quality fly tie. Now a lot of people, you know, that are starting fly fishing business that might not have fly tied. Um, they might not have that, that history about what makes a good fly, you know, what needs to be done to that fly to like, for instance, a dry fly, it has to sit upright. Right? Um, how do you, how do you to, how do you test a fly to make sure that it’s a quality fly? You know, that’s everything from the material, the threads, the hook, the hook is huge. Um, there’s a lot of companies out there that they don’t spend as much on the hook. And next thing you know, you’re bending off a fish and no one likes that, right? So, um, after I was able to, to reach out to all these different fly tyers and we have people that fly Thai all over the world, United States, um, Taiwan. I mean, what I try to do was find the best group of tires for that particular set of flies. Mhm. Um, so everyone kind of asks, are these all made tied by the same company? I say, no, they’re tied by the people that I found that I was confident with that are going to provide a good fly. 00:16:58 Dave: Yep. That’s amazing. So and you just over time have found great fly tires basically. 00:17:03 Matt: Yeah. And it’s a, you know, about it’s five or six years until I was like, okay, now let’s move on to the next box, move on to the next kit. That’s it. You know, so. 00:17:11 Dave: Yeah, because it is, you definitely notice, I mean, you can see the difference between, you know, your flies and some other flies that don’t hold. And in fact, I had this story, which is interesting and I don’t know, I kind of I was using a, it was like, and I’m not sure. Do you have, um your flies? You do a lot of trout, right. You cover trout. 00:17:30 Matt: Yes. And we’re that’s our next adventure and start moving into warm water species. 00:17:34 Dave: Oh you are. So you’re going to go into bass and all that stuff. 00:17:37 Matt: That’s the that’s the next stage of. 00:17:38 Dave: The next big one. So so there you go. So you’re smart. You’re doing it in stages. So you’ve got trout nailed and now go to the next one. 00:17:44 Matt: Yeah. So you know trout I’m comfortable with um we’re from Colorado. It’s it’s trout country here. Right. So I’m able to test it. I can drive fifteen minutes away and be like, yep. Love it. Um, now warm water I’m really getting into right now. Uh, one of my favorite new things to do is fly fish for carp. I know it sounds interesting, but, um, it is a completely different type of fly fishing. And I would love to, to get a kit together for that particular species. I think it’s a, it’s an underrated species and it’s found everywhere. Like you could fly fish for carp in New York City, you know? Um, so that’s, I’d love to do a box for that. I’d love to do a box for bass. Um, and then, you know, just, just diving into different species around the United States. 00:18:27 Dave: Yeah. That’s it. Wow. That’s I mean, I think that’s a great idea. So one of the species that we fish for a lot is steelhead. And that’s something that right now, is that on your list or is that in your repertoire. 00:18:39 Matt: It is on my list to do. Um, but it to me is a world that I know. 00:18:45 Dave: Yeah, it’s a. 00:18:46 Matt: Unique, right? 00:18:47 Dave: It’s a real. Yeah. And that’s the thing about it, because you don’t want to, you see this sometimes and you see it out there. Some of the fly companies will be like, all right, here’s our steelhead setup, right? And it’s like all these random, you know, definitely not what you’re, you know, not the right now because you hear a lot about intruders and all these shanked flies and tube. I mean, there’s a whole world. I mean, I got a box, you know, I got a box right here. Uh, shout out to, um, you know, fish, fish madman. Uh, you know, this is from across the pond and he sent, you know, I mean, it’s like, it’s pretty amazing. I mean, a whole, a whole box of, of two flies and stuff. That’s great. And and he’s such a such a cool guy. He’s got this following. And we had some listeners on the podcast that were talking about tying to Calvin, shout out to Calvin. Calvin was like, you got to check in with the fish mad man, because he knows two flies. 00:19:33 Matt: Out to him. 00:19:34 Dave: Right? And so he checked in. He is the tube fly guy, but it’s so specialized and unique, like he is in this little tiny niche. And I feel like that that is the challenge. But my my initial point was I was out fishing for steelhead. I caught this amazing steelhead. It was like, oh my God. And I even saw it. It flashed and everything. It came up out of the water and jumped up about, you know, about the length of the size of the fish and just gone. 00:19:59 Matt: Like. 00:19:59 Dave: And it was exactly what happened. I was like, oh my God. So I pull in the fly and guess what? That intruder fly. It was faulty. It came apart. 00:20:08 Matt: Oh, no. 00:20:09 Dave: Yeah. So the shank, the shank pulled off of the entire flight. The only thing left was the kind of the front part. 00:20:14 Matt: Yeah. 00:20:15 Dave: Anyways, it was a big, major brand that it came from was a default, you know, thing. 00:20:21 Matt: And that happens, you know, but you don’t want it to happen when you got a big fish like that, you know. 00:20:24 Dave: No, no, I mean, I wasn’t too I mean, again, I saw the fish, so I was pretty happy, you know, and all that stuff. But the point being is that even the big companies, right, even the, the whoever is out there trying to do this stuff, they’re not perfect. 00:20:35 Matt: No, no, not at all. No, that’s just human nature. Right. So yeah, and it also makes for a great story when you get back home. 00:20:43 Dave: Exactly. 00:20:43 Matt: So no, no this big you know. 00:20:46 Dave: Yeah exactly. That’s right. So nobody knows. So you’re so that’s cool thing. So back to that. You’re really starting so warm water is going to be your next thing that you’re digging. 00:20:54 Matt: Yep. That’s the next thing. Well actually I’m going to, I’m going to kind of refine a few of my kits. Uh, this year we’re working on what we’re going to call the weekend warrior. So right now I have a few different, um, you know, as I was talking about earlier, how I broke it out, the nymphs and the dry flies separately, uh, my hopper separately. What I kind of want to do is just do more a simplified kit that is combining those three together. So it’s more of your backpacker kit, right? You don’t have to bring three boxes. Um, I’m a I’m a gear hound. I’ll bring fifteen boxes just because I can. Um, but I want to be able to provide somebody with a single box where it’s like, hey, just keep it in your truck. And if you know you have a chance to stop somewhere and hop out for two seconds, you got enough of an assortment to catch a fish. So that’s our first goal for this year. And then we’re going to be kind of moving on to the warm water species. 00:21:44 Dave: So let’s, let’s go back into again, I love the founder story because you know, you’re doing this thing. You’ve got this amazing product out there. What was the, the moment when you got in drift hook when you realized, okay, I’m good, this is going to be a successful business. 00:21:59 Matt: Yeah. So I think the moment, uh, that came through, um, I think it was when I first sold out everything in two weeks. Wow. And I was like, dang, I wish I had more flies to sell. Right? So, but that took, you know, that took about two or three years to get to that point. And I had to find certain partners, people that would help me with social media. You know, I was trying to do everything and it’s almost impossible to do. Um, so as soon as I found the right people and they were able to get my, my kits out in front of other people, that’s when it really started to resonate. Um, that’s when people started to buy and leaving reviews and, um, you know, I think we have close to nine hundred five star reviews right now, which is, um, I thought that would never happen. But, uh, you know, people just love it. And I think another part of it is that, um, I’m open to talk to, if someone has a question about it, they can call, they can email, they can message me. Um, you know, I like to be, I like to be the customer service for the company, right? 00:22:56 Dave: So they can call you right now. Your phone number is right up on them. 00:22:58 Matt: Yeah. They call me right now. I mean, let’s not do it right now. Yeah. 00:23:01 Dave: Let’s not do it right now. 00:23:02 Matt: Yeah, yeah. No, they’re more than welcome to to call. And I might not get to it right away. But I get back to everybody that calls. 00:23:08 Dave: Actually, this would be kind of fun because we record these ahead. So obviously this is we’re talking to our future self. But actually, if somebody’s listening now, they should try to call you because that would be kind of fun to fun. 00:23:19 Matt: Blow up my phone. 00:23:20 Dave: Exactly. So, but, uh, but cool. So, so this is good. So I think that, you know, you had this thing, you sell out your boxes, you’re like, oh my God, this is, this is actually. 00:23:29 Matt: Yeah. 00:23:29 Dave: Something that could work. 00:23:30 Matt: Yep. So that’s when I, you know, I really said, all right, let’s, let’s put all of our effort into this and, um, you know, had a nice sit down with my wife and my kids and said, guys, this is what I want to do. What’s, what do you think? And they were behind me one hundred percent, you know, so, um, my dad, he loved it because, you know, he said, you got to put this fly in there. No, it’s try. You should try this. And, you know, I was able to bounce off ideas from him and, you know, because he has the guide experience, you know, he, you know, he owned a guiding company. He was he was yeah. You know, I owe everything to my dad. Um, you know, the, when I was, uh, until I was about ten, um, they owned a company called Monarch Guides on the upper Colorado. Um, I watched my dad build a boat ramp. I, you know, I saw the evolution of, um, aluminum drift boats from the old wood ones. Um. 00:24:19 Dave: Oh, right. 00:24:20 Matt: You know, there’s, uh, he would hire out, uh, college kids to be guides. And, you know, this is when everybody was just trying to figure out, you know, all right, here’s fly fishing. You know, what’s going to work. Right. You know, it’s funny. Uh, one of the most popular patterns on the Upper Colorado back in the eighties was a Pat’s rubber leg. 00:24:37 Dave: Yeah. Pat’s. 00:24:37 Matt: Yeah. And, uh, I, I hate that fly. I, uh, I’ve never caught a fish on it. 00:24:42 Dave: No kidding. 00:24:42 Matt: I refuse to put it in my boxes, but, uh, you know, a lot of people use it. A lot of people. 00:24:47 Dave: Like, just, like, kind of like a girdle bug. 00:24:48 Matt: Yeah, it really is. It’s just a it’s just a hunk of yarn with no legs on it. 00:24:53 Dave: Like you just heard somebody talk about. Yeah. He’s still I think Pat’s still around out there. 00:24:56 Matt: Is he? Wow. Well, I apologize Pat. It’s a great pattern. Catches a lot of fish, but, uh, it hasn’t been successful for me. 00:25:03 Dave: Yeah. Pat. Right. What is the fly you would have in your. I guess that’s kind of a nymph in your box. That would be because that imitates kind of what, like a stonefly for the most part or something? 00:25:12 Matt: Yeah, I would think so. Yeah, it’d be more on a stone flat pattern. It’s more of a kind of a tractor stone. Um, you know, my favorites, my go to if I were to pick three nymphs, um, like I could only fish with for the rest of my life. Number one would be a black zebra midge. Number two would be a gray Rs two. And a three would be a traditional prince nymph. 00:25:33 Dave: And a prince. Yeah. 00:25:36 Matt: And the dry flies would be parachute Adams. 00:25:38 Dave: Yep. 00:25:39 Matt: Royal Wolfe, Elk caddis. I mean, they’re simple and they’re historic. 00:25:43 Dave: I know. 00:25:44 Matt: But they work. They work. 00:25:46 Dave: Yeah. And you could tweak those in any way you could. Yeah. Throw on a little shuck on the end of your your. 00:25:51 Matt: Yeah. That’s the cool thing about it, right. It’s like those are kind of the, that’s your, your frame. Right? But then after that, it’s like, how can we tweak this to see if we can get even more attention from that fish? 00:26:02 Dave: Exactly. Have you ever done that? Do you get, I imagine you’ve got this to scale something. You’ve got to have this system. But do you get people that are like, oh, I want to have this tweaked pattern, you know? 00:26:12 Matt: Yeah, no, I’ve had some requests like that. Um, and unfortunately, I just have to say, hey guys. Yeah. You know, if you want to order, you know, twelve of them, we can make this work for you. But yeah, right, right. 00:26:22 Dave: That’s the thing. 00:26:22 Matt: No, there’s a lot of guys out there that will do that custom type of work and they’re great at it. Um, so I recommend going to them versus trying to reach out to us for that type of custom fly. 00:26:31 Dave: Exactly. Perfect. So, so you got the, uh, the dry fly, the nymphs. And what about streamers? What are you stay on that three patterns. What would be your. 00:26:39 Matt: Oh, slump buster. Oh, I’m about to come back to that one. 00:26:43 Dave: Yeah, yeah. Think about that one a little bit because I feel like I well here’s the one. You could probably put it there. I mean, I get it’s, it’s kind of almost a joke, but the woolly bugger. I mean, oh. 00:26:51 Matt: Man, that’s where I was going to go with this. That’s another pattern that I refuse to put in my box. I’ve never had anything bigger, so I refuse to put it in my box. 00:26:59 Dave: There you go. Yeah, but everything is kind of, um. It’s, I won’t say stems from a woolly bugger. 00:27:05 Matt: No, it does, it really does. I mean, it’s, um, there’s, there’s, there’s something to be said about confidence flies. Um, and I think that’s kind of how I built my system. Um, if I have not caught anything on it, I don’t want to sell that to anybody because I can’t guarantee that they’re going to catch a fish. Yeah. Every fly that I have in here I’ve caught or at least hooked into something. Right, right. Um, that’s what kind of made it fun. And it’s like, all right. 00:27:28 Dave: Well, your dad has right or. 00:27:29 Matt: Somebody. 00:27:30 Dave: Right. Yeah. 00:27:31 Matt: You know, I’ve seen people catch with this, right? Yeah, I’d love to see it. I mean, a lot of these patterns, I could say I’ve caught a fish on. So, um, I don’t have pictures of them, but, uh, definitely, um, I’ve caught something on them. 00:27:42 Dave: Yeah. That’s it. Nice. And your dad. That’s pretty cool to hear that. You know, I think, you know, your dad had a big impact on you from, you know, young age. Is he, like, when you guys get out there on the water? I’m not sure if you guys fish together at all, but. 00:27:55 Matt: Do a lot. 00:27:55 Dave: Who’s the who’s the better angler right now? Who’s going to catch more fish? 00:27:58 Matt: Uh, it depends on the day. Yeah. Um, we did a trip to Wyoming. Uh, and it was one of those days that I wish I could have every day because I felt like we both had one on at the same time every time, and our lines were crossing each other, and it was more us fighting each other to keep the fish from tangling the line. Yeah. Um, but really, he’s a, he’s a phenomenal fisherman. Um, but he also likes to take, uh, take some swims. I feel like once a year I’m looking across the river and he slipped on a rock and he’s, uh, cursing to the stars because he’s soaking wet. So I, I got that to look for in my, uh, my later years, I guess. 00:28:40 Dave: So is he still going? I feel like I remember with my dad, he was always the, you know, just way stronger and better at everything. And then at a certain point, he got old enough and I got started getting. And then I passed him and then I was I was wrong for sure. Is that are you guys at that point where you is he. 00:28:57 Matt: Yeah, there’s, there’s, uh, parts where I’m like, okay, I can cross this. I can get to that hole. And he goes, have fun. I’m going to fish the same hole. And then sure enough, I make it to that hole and I’m, I’m laying into him and he just laughs. But he enjoys it. 00:29:11 Dave: Yeah. Well, I think the, the family part of this is obviously huge. You know, I feel like the, you know, the family story, the connections. I mean, we’re all doing this to, you know, make it, you know, get out there in the wild and have a good time. But, um, but yeah, your boxes, I mean, what would you say about, you know, again, what we, that anything we haven’t covered covered that tells the story of drift hook any, you know, I feel like your story is we mentioned the family, the system, people getting into it, whether you’re new or right, you have this, you can buy a box and just get out there and start fishing. Is that kind of your is, was that part of your initial thought is how do you make it just a lot easier for people to grab a box and just get out there and go. 00:29:47 Matt: Yeah, I mean, that’s a, that’s another thing with our boxes. Um, a lot of people are starting to do it now, but before when you would buy a kit or a set of flies, say you’re buying, you know, these are the top thirty flies. They would just come thirty flies, right? And then you’d have to load them into a box. I was like, all right, what if we took the time and loaded the boxes for the people so they don’t, you know, there’s a lot of my clients that that it’s hard for them. They don’t have the dexterity to actually load one hundred, one hundred in a box. Right. So, um, I’ve taken that, that, uh, you know, I don’t call it a chore out from them, but you know, when the box arrives, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s packed. It’s ready. 00:30:25 Dave: Yeah. It’s good to. 00:30:25 Matt: Go. It’s good to go. Um, you just got to get on the water and, and learn the system, learn the hatch charts. Um, know what time of year you’re at. You know, another thing that, um, a lot of people, you know, they get excited about fly fishing. They’re like, all right, all I got to do is have the right flies. I’m going to get out in the water and I’m going to start catching fish. Um, I recommend for everybody to learn how to read water. Um, I think that’s a concept that you hear a lot about, but no one kind of breaks it down to how, how do I read rod? What does that mean? Initially it’s like, where are the fish going to be at any given time? Or where are they most likely going to be? Um, because some of the rivers that I fish like you don’t, it’s murky. You’re not being able to see where they’re at. You know, it’s deep. Um, there’s a lot of crystal clear rivers out there where you can like spot fish, which is awesome. That’s a super fun thing to do. Um, but if you go to a river and it’s slightly murky, where are those trout are going to be hiding? And that’s what reading the water is all about. Um, you know, we have a great video that kind of breaks that down. Um, so when you do get out to the river or a creek, you can be like, oh, you know, I don’t need to be casting there. I need to be in this spot or I need to move up to this area. And that’s going to increase my chances of catching something. 00:31:37 Dave: Yeah. What is the on that, um, that video, we’ll have a link in that to that in the show notes. But what are some of the top things that you’re talking about in that video on Reading Water? 00:31:46 Matt: Yeah. So we’re talking about scenes. We’re talking about bends. We’re talking about pools, um, heads of pools, tails of pools. Um, but it’s initially looking at. One of my favorite portions of that video is it’s a pretty, um, I don’t want to call it a, a common topic, but it’s kind of grid fishing, right? It’s like, okay, I’m hitting this section up. I’m looking for these type of themes. I’m starting low to high and working left to right. You know, that’s an easy way to cover a lot of water without disturbing the water and being able to move through a section to find fish. 00:32:24 Dave: Yeah, that’s an awesome point. Yeah. The grid is such a killer because you can just say, okay, here’s my river, break it up into whatever sections. And then you say, okay, I’m going to hit that little spot and then that little spot. 00:32:36 Matt: And it can be a section of, you know, ten feet by five feet wide and you’re just moving slowly. It could be your first cast is right to the left and then your next cast, as soon as you get through that section is six inches over. Um, because a lot of the time a trout is going to be in a holding spot. He might not be moving. He might just be waiting for something to land in his mouth. And it’s got to be within that, that range, that close range of him to actually make a move for it. So those type of grid type of casting techniques are going to be able to cover that water. Um, and you might be catching three or four fish out of this one little section. 00:33:11 Dave: Yeah. I feel like that, that is a big part of, I mean, we hear a lot about that, the reading, the water, um, you know, how do you do it? So you’re on the water and part of it is the fly selection. I think that’s what you’re taking out some of that mystery is and you mentioned the hatch hatch charge. Talk about that. What are these? 00:33:25 Matt: Yeah. We um we’ve put together a hatch chart that is more of kind of a global, uh, not a global, I shouldn’t say that United States hatch chart that kind of gives you the tail end, beginning end of seasons of particular orders, right? So your mayflies, your midges, caddis, stonefly, it’s going to kind of show on a calendar. When are these hatching and what times of the year, right. So from that hatch chart and you can get hatch charts for any river that you go and fish. You know, I recommend looking at those hatch charts before you hit the water because then, you know, hey, we’re fishing now in May. These are the type of species that are going to be hatching off the water. Then from there you can say, okay, in my fly box, do I have those particular patterns that I’m going to emulate those particular orders? And that’s just, I mean, if you break that part down, that eliminates a ton of guesswork. Um, now there are, uh, there are some hatch charts that are pretty amazing where you look at a river and there’s, you know, five hundred different species that are coming off. You got to kind of at that point, like simplify it, say, okay, this is my group of mayflies. This is my group of caddis flies. What can I have in my box that’s going to emulate those type of hatches? Now certain parts of the country, there are going to be some pretty epic hatches, right? You’re going to have, you know, your Mother’s Day hatch. You’re going to have Tricos. Tricos, Stonefly hatches. And those are fun, but they can also be extremely frustrating, right? Because yeah, there’s so much food in the water. 00:34:50 Dave: Right? 00:34:51 Matt: It’s like, okay, how do I get my pattern to stand out? 00:34:53 Dave: Why would why, why would that fish eat your pattern when there’s thousands, hundreds of thousands, right? 00:34:58 Matt: So at that point, you’re almost kind of picking, you know, your fish, as it are rising. Okay. I know that this hatch is coming through. This is where I’m looking for a riser. And how am I going to feed my particular fly to them? 00:35:10 Dave: Yeah, I think that’s the interesting thing of the dry fly fishing, is the fact that you can get it down to that one fish potentially that you’re seeing, you’re seeing that that nose or the head, right. Come up. 00:35:21 Matt: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, your last giveaway with the Missouri River. Um, I would love to go fish that river just for that particular challenge. I mean, something that’s crystal clear and extremely picky trout, right? That’s, to me, that sounds extremely exciting. Um, because yeah, you have to have, you might need the, uh, the adult, the spinner. Um, you might need to adjust your fly on, on the fly. Right? Do you trim down a little bit because. 00:35:46 Dave: Right, trim it down. 00:35:47 Matt: A little bit too big. You know, we’re getting kind of crazy when we’re talking about that type of scenario, but I think it’d be a great challenge. 00:35:54 Dave: Yeah. That is no. I’m glad you mentioned the Missouri because that is a big trip in the winter. We just announced Brandon from Seattle. He’s going to be taking your drift book drift hook boxes. 00:36:03 Matt: Congratulations. 00:36:04 Dave: We’ll be on the trip with Brandon and we’ll be fishing. Uh, the you know, that’s the great thing. So we the patterns and again, we’re fishing this, uh, tricho hatch. So yeah, you got a couple little mayfly patterns in there that. 00:36:16 Matt: Oh, yeah, we got some trichomes in that particular kit that we’re sending to him. But now I know that that’s the hatch that you guys are going for. I might just send him some additional ones as well. 00:36:24 Dave: Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe do that because I think that we’re hitting it well, you know, um, Warren and, and, uh, and Craig talked about this, but we are fishing. Tricho is huge. I mean, it’s going to be July, but also a lot of this, um, you know, terrestrials, hoppers. 00:36:38 Matt: And. 00:36:39 Dave: Stuff like that. So I think, I think that’s kind of what it’s going to be focused on, which is going to be cool. 00:36:44 Matt: Yeah. Hoppers are fun. 00:36:45 Dave: Yeah. 00:36:45 Matt: Hopper dropper, hopper dropper right out of water. And you don’t have to be as delicate. Um, that’s a great one for beginners. You know, some dry flies like you have to, you know, it’s got to lay nice and easy on that water. You can spook the fish where a hopper that lands from a bush to water is never gentle. 00:37:02 Dave: Yeah, it’s never gentle. That’s what you want. Yeah. That’s what you want. What is the so you mentioned this hatch chart. So you have it sounds like one big hatch chart for the whole kind of country. 00:37:11 Matt: Just you can find that on driftwood dot com under our free to. Well, what is it under. Uh, you can find that on our free tutorial section. Um, it’s called the seasonal hatch chart. You can download it, save it to your phone. Um, okay. Another cool thing we kind of did with that, uh, is and this might be I’m trying to think who I learned this from or what session, but somebody kind of just brought to my attention. And feel free to email me if you were the guy that said it because I thought it was brilliant. Um, it also says like, okay, you know, the color of your particular pattern. So say you’re Now you know that midges are going to be hot this month, you know. But at certain times of the year, those the shade of that particular fly is going to change. Right. Um, like for instance, in the spring, you want to maybe go a darker green, uh, in the summer, those patterns are going to be move more to that yellowish tone. And then as you start getting into the fall, into the winter, you’re going to want kind of red and black. Um, I thought that was a really cool concept. So I kind of added that to the hash chart as well. Um, I’ve used that as kind of a starting point. Um, and it’s been successful for me, so I’d be interested to find out if anybody else finds it helpful. 00:38:20 Dave: Yeah, that sounds like a great, a great tip for sure. So, so you have basically, yeah, you got these hatches. And then you mentioned also, you think you can find a hatch chart from for each river, major river. From where do you find those? Are those like out there? 00:38:34 Matt: You just Google name the river and say hatch chart and. 00:38:37 Dave: It’ll pop up. 00:38:37 Matt: It’ll pop up. And it’s kind of laid out the exact same way that we’ve laid out our hatch chart. It’s going to give you month and then it’s going to give you species. And then it’s kind of like a little bar graph, right? And it says, all right, if it’s in this section, those are when it’s typically starting and typically ending. And that’s going to change with with, you know, depending on the weather. Um, was it a cold winter? Was it a, you know, warm summer, you know, things like that. So there’s going to be some fluctuation in there, but it’s going to give you kind of a historical this is when they typically are coming off. Yeah. 00:39:08 Dave: That’s it. Nice. What is the you know back to these those kind of big well, not even beginner tips. Just fly fishing tips. Somebody is going out. They’ve got your by. Well let’s just take it to that. We’ve got Brandon who’s got your box. He’s going out on the water with you know this dry fly box. What is a you know something, you know, kind of a simple tip or maybe a tip. You’d be telling him to have more success given you got that? He’s got your box. 00:39:31 Matt: Yeah. No problem. Um, with, with this particular box, I, I recommend fishing two flies fish, one that you can see because trichos are small. So that’s going to be, you know, your parachute atoms got those nice bright white wings on the top, you know, a royal wolf, smaller sizes. Um, the funny thing about a royal wolf is it doesn’t really mimic anything, but it mimics everything. Um, one of my favorite dry flies. Yeah. Take that as your, your point. Fly your starter, fly the first one that goes to your tippet. And then from there trail off about anywhere twelve to fourteen inches of tippet. And then that’s where you put your smaller fly. If you’ve never fly fished before and you’re trying to find a real tiny fly in the water, you’re going to have a real hard day because it’s tough to see. But if you have something that you can focus on, and then you see any movement near that set the rod. Yeah. 00:40:23 Dave: That’s it, that’s it. So so have a so the dry and that’s actually just a, I guess a yeah, a dropper. Just have a little dropper on. 00:40:29 Matt: A dry dropper, a two dry setup, you know, so you can do that. Trico trailed off the back and it can be sitting in the film. It can kind of be going down below like in a merger pattern. Um, any type of that movement, that natural movement is, it’s going down the water. It’s going to, it’s going to trigger a reaction. 00:40:45 Dave: Yeah. Perfect. Well, let’s, uh, let’s start to break this out here today, just on the, we, this is kind of our gear segment as we start to take it out here. Um, and I’m always interested because you’ve obviously got the flies covered. We talked about some of your top patterns, uh, your boxes and all that. What about in your gear? You’re out there fishing. What’s your, you know, you think about gear. I always go to packs first. You got packs. We just had, we just had the founder of Fish Pond on. Yeah. And it was a company. 00:41:11 Matt: I’d like to meet. 00:41:12 Dave: Another Colorado company. He explained about how, you know, they made one of the first chest packs back before that. Yeah, you might have. So what are you because I, I go back and I’m old enough to remember when I had the vest and I still got a vest hanging up. 00:41:24 Matt: Yeah. No, that’s a. 00:41:26 Dave: What’s your go to? What’s your go to fishing bag? Yeah. 00:41:28 Matt: So, uh, I am a chest packed type of person because I can load for fly boxes in that and also carry water. Um, I do like to cover a lot of ground. And I always forget. Hey, you know, you’ve been fishing for four hours. You probably should drink some water. You know, you get so excited about it. But that is when I am I’m out, you know, hiking around. I also have a hip pack, which I really love just for ponds for for lakes. I can throw a net in the back. It’s got just a small assortment of flies. It’s, it has a tippet spool to it and I can just go out. You know, I keep that in my truck at all times. Um, but if it’s a full day adventure, I’m definitely the, the chest pack type of guy. 00:42:08 Dave: Yeah. Chest pack. Okay. And what’s your, what’s your go to rod fishing? Colorado. You fishing a lot of mix of small and bigger waters. 00:42:16 Matt: Yeah. So, uh, I have a lot of rods. Yeah. Um, but my go to rod is a nine foot six weight. 00:42:22 Dave: Yep. Six weight. 00:42:23 Matt: Yep. Six weight. Um, you get away with a five, but, um, if you do lay into that bigger trout like that six weight’s going to help, right. Um, I also have a nine foot five eight Butter Stick, which is a ton of fun. It’s a fiberglass rod. Yeah. No, the fiberglass rods that are coming out right now are super fun because they’re kind of like a bamboo rod. You know, there’s just a lot of whip to them and they’re great for small dry fly presentations. Um, I take that if I’m, if I’m backpacking, you know, up to higher creeks, higher elevations, it just, it adds something to it, right? It’s just something fun, a little more different. Yeah. Um. 00:43:01 Dave: Cool. So so you got some rod and then what about what about glasses? Are you, uh, there’s a few big companies out there. You, uh, what do you go? Are you like a smith or you just go with whatever glasses or or. 00:43:11 Matt: So it depends on the water. So I have three different sets of shades. Yeah. Um, I don’t want to name any brands or hurt anybody, that type of thing. But um, it, it depends on the lens color, right? So I have a deep blue lens for particular reservoirs around here that, you know, it helps really cut down. And that’s when I’m carp fishing. I go with a brown tint lens for the majority of my trout fishing, and then I have a real light colored lens for those more evening. 00:43:39 Dave: Evening. So like a like a yellowish lens. 00:43:41 Matt: Yeah, it’s kind of like a yellowish lens. 00:43:43 Dave: So you got, so you got the, the amber, kind of the amber ish, the yellow and then the blue. So the blue is good. Is that. Yeah. So that’s good for Stillwater. 00:43:51 Matt: It’s, it’s, I don’t want to name the brand or anything, but it’s a, it’s a deep sea fishing lens. 00:43:56 Dave: Yeah. I was going to say deep sea. 00:43:58 Matt: For a while to kind of figure out, but it helps a ton going for those deeper surfaces, which is nice. 00:44:03 Dave: Yeah, yeah, they all have. I think we’ve had a number of brands on and I think they all have a similar, you know, different tech, but it’s similar right on the lens. So, so cool. Well we good. We got a couple of some gear stuff out of here and maybe just talk about we in our random segment here, some of your, you know, maybe your mentors or your people that you follow because people are following you now, right? You’re doing this. But, but who are some of the people that you’ve been following that have helped you to get. 00:44:28 Matt: You know, so, uh, you know, shout out to my dad again. We’ve been going to the fly Fishing show in Denver, Colorado pretty much since it started. Um, it’s been in two locations now. Wow. Uh, and it’s grown and it’s huge. And I’m surprised you and me didn’t run into each other. 00:44:45 Dave: I know that was unbelievable. I didn’t even know. 00:44:47 Matt: I know now, but if I, if I was to go back and, uh, my favorite presenters, the guys that I’ll go and see the same, you know, um, same class that they do year in and year out, but they’re just such good, they’re such good storytellers and, and they know how to teach. Right. You know, um, I love Tim Camisa. I love Landon Meyer, um, Phil, Phil Rowley, um, you know, one person I would have love to, to take a class from, um, was, uh, you know, flip palette flip. 00:45:16 Dave: Yeah. 00:45:16 Matt: I love watch anything that he does, I could turn that on and just listen to him talk. It’s fantastic. He’s a good, um. Yeah. I mean, those guys are great, but there’s so many great guys out there with so many cool ideas. Um, it’s just fun to be a part of. 00:45:30 Dave: Yeah, it’s a cool, it’s a cool space. We’re doing a little, uh, session with, uh, the team USA. This is coming up soon. It’ll be out actually out pretty quick. I’m going to have, uh, Devin and some of the starters, the starters for team USA that are going to come on and do some content around Euro Nymphing. And I’m going to, I’m going to let them, you know, riff and riff back and forth, you know, so I think that’s fun. 00:45:50 Matt: Yeah. I’ll have to look forward to that one. 00:45:51 Dave: Yeah, that’ll be a fun one because we’re building up the team USA is they’re going for the gold. Well, you know in, in Idaho Falls this year. So it’s exciting to see how that goes. But but good. Yeah. And obviously all these people are great flip. Um, you know, I think flip yeah. R I p right. He passed away last year or so, but um, when we had him on the podcast, um, the first, well the only time we had him on, he told the story about his house getting blown out from under him while he was in this, in one of the hurricanes over there. 00:46:21 Matt: Yeah. I mean, intense life stories. 00:46:24 Dave: Yeah, exactly. But um, But cool. Well, tell me this. I love to get into a little bit of the media stuff too. We, we were obviously media, we’re doing media production, but on the move, the movies, the, the videos podcast. Let’s start with the movie first. Are you a, are you a movie person? Have you. 00:46:39 Matt: I do like movies. 00:46:39 Dave: Yes you do. So what’s your what’s your. We don’t have to go top, top ten or anything like that, but give me a. What’s one movie you really. Or even style? 00:46:46 Matt: Oh, well, for me right now, it’s. Anytime I can get away from the kids and watch some action movies, some old school nineties action movie, really. 00:46:54 Dave: Like like like what? Like Schwarzenegger? 00:46:56 Matt: Yeah, anything like that. Just mindless. Put it on. Let’s see. Some real cars exploding, that type of stuff. Yeah, right. It’s just that Die Hard. 00:47:04 Dave: Or any action. Yeah, exactly. 00:47:06 Matt: Yeah. Right now it’s it’s a lot of Disney in my life. Um, which is fine, I like it, they’re fun. But, uh, anytime I can kind of get away and just have, you know, that type of an action movie, I like that. 00:47:15 Dave: So, okay. So, so any action that’s good. What about your, um, what about you? Let’s go music podcast? Are you, what’s your music listening. 00:47:24 Matt: So, uh. Both. So if on road trips, I like music, if I’m working, um, I like podcasts. Uh, obviously one of my favorite podcasts is yours. Just. 00:47:34 Dave: There you go. Nice. 00:47:35 Matt: Yeah. But then I like history, too. I love anything that’s that goes in depth about anything that’s happened in the past. Even funny stuff like stuff you should know and, uh, ridiculous history, things like that. Um, you know, uh, Dominic Switkowski does a great job at trout. Been listening to him and those guys. Yeah. Um, they’re a hoot. Yeah. They’re just hilarious. So, um. But yeah, that’s probably where I’d land on those. 00:47:59 Dave: Okay. Perfect. And then, uh. And then what about music? What’s your, uh, do you have a, uh, are you a hair band from the, uh, you know. 00:48:07 Matt: I wish, yeah, I wish I had my hair back to be a hair band. No. Uh, you know, I’m all over the place with music, and that’s just depending on the mood. Anything from, uh, from rock and roll to heavy metal to to rap, um, to, uh. I love singing Adele with my, my little girl, you know? So. 00:48:22 Dave: Right? Yeah. Yeah, totally. 00:48:23 Matt: Those little things. 00:48:24 Dave: So yeah. Awesome. Well, it would be if we had to think just off the top of your head, one to take us away here. If we just throw a track. 00:48:30 Matt: one song to take you away, huh? 00:48:32 Dave: Or even a aw, yeah. What’s on your. If you open up your, your. I’m not sure. Do you do Spotify or Apple or how do you listen to your. 00:48:38 Matt: I just usually the kids run it. I just tell them what to play. 00:48:41 Dave: So yeah, exactly. Yeah, totally. Yeah. 00:48:44 Matt: Yeah. I’ll have to get back to you on a closer song. 00:48:46 Dave: Okay. All right. I’m, uh, it’s always I, I, I turn it to myself and say, okay, what would I it’s a tough question because there’s, there’s a lot I always, I default to like old country, classic country. 00:48:58 Matt: Yeah, yeah. That’s a good. 00:48:59 Dave: Default to like Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard. I’m always thinking Willie Nelson, you know, but but I don’t know if that’s even my favorite. I guess it probably is because that’s what I say a lot. 00:49:08 Matt: Yeah. 00:49:09 Dave: No, I like it all. I think I’m like you. I like, you know, you name my kids got what do they listen to? Um, I mean, for a while there, it was. 00:49:16 Matt: Like stuff coming out right now. 00:49:17 Dave: Yeah. There’s some kind of. Right. 00:49:18 Matt: Yeah. 00:49:19 Dave: And what are your kids? What what age are your kids? 00:49:21 Matt: We have a middle schooler, a fourth grader, and a second grader. 00:49:26 Dave: So yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you got. 00:49:27 Matt: The we got some gamuts there. It’s oh man. 00:49:30 Dave: Man. Yeah. The middle school range is definitely, uh, they’re definitely learning and getting into stuff at that age. 00:49:35 Matt: So yeah, no, just turned thirteen yesterday. A little shout out to, uh, there we go. There we go. 00:49:40 Dave: Perfect, perfect. Awesome. Matt. Well, I think we could probably leave that here for today. We’re going to, uh, we’re going to be following up with you, obviously doing more great stuff. We’re going to get your flies on the water this year on the, on the big mo and all around, you know, the country as we go. So this is going to be exciting. And we’ll follow up with you on all this stuff, but we’ll send everybody out to drift hook dot com today if they want to follow up with you on more on that. And then, uh, until the next one, man, thanks for all your time and a lot of fun. 00:50:04 Matt: Thanks, Dave. 00:50:07 Dave: If you’re interested in checking in with Matt, please do that right now. Drift hook dot com. They’ve got a bunch of great patterns and everything is organized like we talked about today. Check in with Matt today and let him know you found them through this podcast. Also, I want to let you know we’ve got a bunch of stuff going on here. This summer we are turning around and heading to Newfoundland. We’re also heading up to fish for Pike. If you’re interested in any trips we have going. You can go to Netflix dot com slash pro, sign up there and get some information on when we open up our next cohort for Wet Fly Swing Pro, and you can find out how to get involved in trips. Uh, and that’s about all I have for you today. I appreciate you for stopping in and checking out this video presentation of the podcast. If you liked what we’re doing here and want to see more video, send me an email Dave at web dot com. We’d love to hear. If you’re liking the video or if we should maybe just stick with what we did before, which was audio only. We’re working on always making this better, so we’d love to hear from you. Or if you’re just new to the podcast or haven’t chatted a while, definitely check in with me. I hope you enjoyed that one and we will look forward to catching you on the next episode. Have a great morning, evening, or afternoon wherever you are in the world. We’ll talk to you then.