Alaska Spey Fishing, Outdoor Filming, and the Togiak River Lodge Experience with Tom Petry and Jorden Susewitz

00;00;02;02 – 00;00;20;13 Dave It’s not every day that you step into something that changes how you look at all of it. A camera, a couple of guys still figuring it out and a place that has a way of shifting your perspective. Second, you arrive. We’re heading up to Alaska today into a week where things start to click fast, new water, new skills and a story unfolding. 00;00;20;14 – 00;00;37;06 Dave What’s happening today? You find out what happens when you lean into something new and stay with it long enough to feel the shift. This is the Wi-Fi Swing podcast, where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. 00;00;37;20 – 00;00;59;10 Dave Jordan Souza sits and Tom Petri are here to break it all down today to find out about the film side of what they do, the fishing side and everything in between. Today, they’re going to share how a film school connection turned into a full circle story at a remote Alaska lodge. The first real experience picking up a spare rod and why it changed everything for all of the guest that we talk about today. 00;00;59;21 – 00;01;18;22 Dave We’re going to get a feel for that moment when things start to click, when you’re learning fast in new environment and why Alaska leaves an impression that sticks with us long after the trip. You can find Jordan on Instagram at Susa Hits and you can find Tom at film The Hunt com. All right, let’s get into it. Here they are. 00;01;18;22 – 00;01;22;20 Dave Jordan and Tom. How you guys doing? 00;01;23;02 – 00;01;23;15 Jorden Good. 00;01;23;27 – 00;01;24;23 Tom Pleasure to be here. 00;01;25;03 – 00;01;41;11 Dave Thanks for being on here, guys. We’re going to have a good conversation today. We’re going to talk swinging That’s always swing and fly. That’s always a good time. You guys had this trip up at Togiak River Lodge that I know. I talked to Jordan, who we’ve been working with for a while, and he described the trip a little bit. 00;01;41;11 – 00;01;57;22 Dave So we’re going to talk about that, what your first swing trip is like up there. And then we’re going to get into everything else. I know, Tom, you’ve got this program going with these this film school, this sounds really interesting. And then, Jordan, you’re also connected to this one and also the fly shop up in on the softball. 00;01;57;22 – 00;02;09;24 Dave So we’re going to talk about that today as well. But before we jump into all that, maybe just take us in. Have you guys been both then fly fishing for a while? Maybe We’ll start with you, Tom. I’m guessing maybe you haven’t been fly fishing quite as long as is Jordan. Is that true? 00;02;10;01 – 00;02;37;12 Tom Yeah. Well, yeah, that’s probably the best way to start with me on that, because I’ll be pretty short lived. No, to be honest, you know, very, very green and new to to fly fishing. If I’ve got any background at all. It’s actually related, my film background. But I about 25 or so years ago, we, we filmed a documentary and also made an episode out of it back in the day up in upstate New York where I want to see the guy’s name was Burt Darrow. 00;02;37;22 – 00;02;59;12 Tom It was on one of the more popular rivers up there, and and that kicked me into it a little bit. I did a little bit of fly fishing because I was intrigued after filming that. And I did I did after that film and Fish fly Fish in Alaska. Now, again, that was in this recent trip in Tioga was that was back in somewhere in the neighborhood of 1999, 2000. 00;02;59;12 – 00;03;07;18 Tom So really the in 25 years man little to none of it until togiak here just a year or two ago. 00;03;07;18 – 00;03;10;01 Dave So yeah that’s awesome. How about you, Jordan? 00;03;10;15 – 00;03;33;19 Speaker 4 Yeah. I had an opportunity to do some marketing for a store that is located on near Sable River in northern Michigan and one of my first flow trips, I took a camera because I wanted just to go photograph and film. You know, a couple of guys fly fishing and they let me pick up the rod at the end of the trip and immediately fell in love with the art of casting. 00;03;34;03 – 00;03;55;07 Speaker 4 And from there it just the passion grew deeper and just couldn’t. I just kept wanting to get on the water and learn more. And the one thing I’ve found about fly fishing is that there’s no ceiling to what you can learn. And so I just have fully engulfed myself with this passion of learning as much as I can with fly fishing. 00;03;55;20 – 00;04;11;02 Dave Nice. Well, that’s a good start, you guys. I think we’re going to, like I said, talk about Togiak in a little bit because I want to hear about what it was like being up there. I think in fact, I think the trip we were on, you guys were actually when we were arriving, you were getting on the same plane that we flew in on. 00;04;11;02 – 00;04;31;21 Dave So I think you were there the week before, which was pretty cool. I didn’t even realize it. Yeah, but tell me about the filming. I feel like that’s the thing that ties you guys together. Maybe take it back to Jordan and we got a couple of Jordan. Maybe. Maybe we should clarify that. So, Jordan, we’ve got Susan Whitson here who’s on the podcast now, and we’ve got Jordan, who runs and owns Togiak River Lodge. 00;04;31;21 – 00;04;37;25 Dave Right. But talk about that connection. How did you guys first run into Meet Jordan at the Lodge? 00;04;37;25 – 00;05;03;09 Tom You’re referring to Jordan Larsen Then when you say, Yeah. Jordan Larson Oh, man. Yeah. So that’s, that’s rewinding, you know, about a decade or so ago when actually Jordan’s mom, because at the time he was probably like 17 or whatever. Right? And Jordan’s mom actually contacted me. She came across my my film school’s probably, you know, Google Search or whatever. 00;05;03;09 – 00;05;28;08 Tom And and, you know, just knew that he you know, he wanted to do this and he had this potential opportunity up at the Togiak where his brother was was had just recently got a guiding gig up there. And so Jordan had this potential opportunity to take on the film and photography side of things, capturing fishermen up there on their on their trips at Togiak. 00;05;28;08 – 00;05;45;16 Tom So she being his mom and looking after him, said, Well, I need to educate himself. He doesn’t know what he’s doing, you know, professionally. So. So yes, he reached out to me and said, Hey, I’d like to enroll him in a class. And and that’s exactly, exactly what you did. And in fact, Jordan ended up taking a couple classes with me that year. 00;05;45;16 – 00;06;05;14 Tom The field production and the post-production classes. And, you know, from there, it was kind of the beginning of history, right? He went up there and he obviously, you know, Jordan Larson did an amazing job for the owner at that point. And and it kind of kickstarted this awkward crossroads for Jordan, which I’m sure you’ve probably heard the story of. 00;06;05;22 – 00;06;31;14 Tom Well, boy, I love filming and shooting photography and I love this art, but I’ve also got this passion for the togiak. So, you know, which which direction do I take this thing? But, but that was early days. I remember him coming to class, you know, again, a kid, literally a kid, his mom making sure he got his got on the plane and off that night, you know, And I kind of felt like the dad, you know, just watching over. 00;06;31;14 – 00;06;55;28 Tom And the whole time he was there, he was obviously amongst the younger of the individuals there. And but, you know, Jordan had this unique and and I mean this when I say this because I come across a lot of different skill sets and natural abilities in the production realm. And Jordan came in with this pure natural talent. And I saw it instantly. 00;06;55;28 – 00;07;23;05 Tom And on top of that, he carried himself with this level of professionalism for 17 years old that stood out to me as well. So like from day one to meeting this kid and having him in class, I was like, This dude’s got it. Like, he has got it. You know, he’s got the the all the way around. And then by day four of the first class, you know, he proved it time and time again with his, like I said, just natural I skill sets and abilities. 00;07;23;05 – 00;07;25;16 Tom So yeah that’s how I first met him anyway. 00;07;25;25 – 00;07;32;06 Dave That’s it Describe a little bit on the film school. Is that film school when you had Jordan there, is that similar to what you do now? 00;07;32;16 – 00;07;55;11 Tom Yeah. Yeah it is You know shoot I depending on how far back you want to take this, it is similar to what I do now. I, you know, I’ve, I’ve been in production video and photo production for a long time, you know, dating back to the late nineties and but I started filming The hunt in and around 2015 and I believe Jordan took the classes in 2016. 00;07;55;12 – 00;08;14;12 Tom So it was the early days of of this as a new company for me now I had taught classes in the video and photo world prior to both personally and for another company. So teaching it was not new to me, but film the Hunt as a as a company and as my company. It was still pretty new back then. 00;08;14;12 – 00;08;14;29 Tom When I met him. 00;08;15;10 – 00;08;19;25 Dave It was nice. And then how about you, Jordan? How did you meet Jordan Larson? 00;08;20;02 – 00;08;53;01 Speaker 4 Yes, I was a new student at the school. Had followed Tom kind of through his journey and wanted to take that leap and take those classes because as a young kid early on watching my, you know, TV with dad in the morning, I always wanted to figure out how to make money in the outdoor industry and also the art of capturing raw moments and knowing Tom at the time briefly and seeing what he was putting out there, I was like, I got to go to these film to hunt schools. 00;08;53;01 – 00;09;15;19 Speaker 4 And my first year there, Jordan Larson was there in the class as well too, and just kind of started that bond and friendship right off the bat. And I believe Jordan, it took a few more classes after I took them, but then there was some internships that Larson and myself were on with Tom and his crew, and that friendship just grew stronger and stronger. 00;09;15;19 – 00;09;30;13 Speaker 4 And it was a lot of fun. Like Tom had mentioned. You know, Larson is just one of those guys that basically outwork anyone, has a drive and passion and care nice about him, that he’ll just do anything for anyone. And he’s a lot of fun to be around. 00;09;30;26 – 00;09;47;20 Dave Yeah, that’s I think that’s the thing that separates Togiak out there, the lodge, you know, because it’s this family family experience, you know, you got the, you got the Larsons up there, and when you’re there, it’s this, you know, it’s you getting ready each morning to go out fishing. But you’ve got this connection at the end where you’re eating dinner and you got everybody in there. 00;09;47;20 – 00;10;06;02 Dave And, you know, it’s a pretty cool experience. So. So maybe talk about that. Let’s on, you know, that trip so that came together. Maybe talk about how that first trip to Alaska came together for you guys. It seems like I know when I did it for my first time, that was my first time there too. I was like, it was the stars aligned. 00;10;06;02 – 00;10;19;07 Dave And I feel like, you know, sometimes you never know if you’ll do the thing again. So you feel like, Wow, this is definitely could be a once in a lifetime thing. But how did that come together for you guys and what would it feel like when you got to Togiak and you landed on that gravel airplane strip? 00;10;19;20 – 00;10;24;03 Tom Well, I tell you what, if I may. If I may, Dave, I. Can I back it up again for me? 00;10;24;03 – 00;10;25;25 Dave Yeah, back it up. Yeah, yeah, back it up. Yeah. 00;10;25;25 – 00;10;51;19 Tom If I can. I want to back it up to something Jordan mentioned because I think it’s really important to how this all started and where the friendship, you know, kind of grew, how it grew into the next level. You heard Jordan mention that they did an internship with me of sorts, and I want to elaborate on that because it really and truly there’s actually a story that comes along with it, too, that really so I you know, we all come every September up in the mountains, different states depending on tag draws and all that stuff. 00;10;51;19 – 00;11;12;13 Tom And at that time we were hunting Montana and we were, you know, we were on a six or 7000 acre ranch. We had a small cabin that we could all sleep in. And and and then, you know, of course, we set up wall tents and stuff for gear as well. So I invited both of them on this trip back then for multiple reasons. 00;11;12;13 – 00;11;30;02 Tom Number one, Jordan Souza It’s an I being a little bit little bit closer in age. You know, we we hit it off and Jordan was going to run camera for me. And and so we had that thing going and Larsen was still like, I want to get as much experience as I possibly can. So when I threw the invite to him, he was like, no brainer. 00;11;30;02 – 00;11;47;26 Tom I’m there, you know, count me in. So so here we are on this trip, you know, in the middle of the mountains, so to speak. And and they’re both all three of us are still fairly, you know, new friendships here, you know. And, you know, we’re staying in this tiny little cabin, you know, very close quarters, all that stuff. 00;11;47;26 – 00;12;07;26 Tom Well, we just immediately we, the three of us, hit it off so well that, you know, it’s one of those deals where you all you have this these dynamics that you just blend so well. Larsen almost became like our little, you know, our little son. You know, we’d we’d set up then him out to collect firewood and get the fire going. 00;12;07;26 – 00;12;16;01 Tom And, you know, we found him this little straw hat, you know, and he’d be out there and me and Jordan would go out on the porch and call for him for dinner with Jordan. 00;12;17;01 – 00;12;17;11 Jorden Yeah. 00;12;17;23 – 00;12;41;22 Tom You know, you’d hear it echo. And so it really became this family, this true bond between the three of us very, very early on. And and a story I’ll quick share that that Larsen will never live down and it just it I remember he went out to the wall tent to start a fire to dry all of our gear out and that was like his little job when we got back and and all of a sudden we’re in the we’re back in the cabin. 00;12;41;22 – 00;12;58;18 Tom It’s like a half hour later and I see just black smoke billowing out of all tent stack, you know, the fire stack and the wood stove stack. And I’m like, what is going on in there? So we we run out. Larson gets there first. Well, he realizes that he leaned my backpack a little too close to the fire and. 00;12;58;19 – 00;12;59;19 Dave Oh, dang. 00;12;59;19 – 00;13;17;17 Tom And it was just melting my backpack and black smoke and all the materials and all that stuff. Thankfully, nothing caught on fire and and burned. But he was trauma ties you know, he thought he Yeah I world, you know. And I looked him right in the eye I’m like buddy if that’s the worst that happens on this trip we are doing a great yeah. 00;13;17;19 – 00;13;19;01 Dave Right right. 00;13;19;12 – 00;13;39;22 Tom And he was just like, who? Oh, kill me. Fire me or send me home, like, you know. And yeah, that is the very, very quick version of that story. Yeah. Yeah. But I want to say, like, literally from that day forward, we, we just, the three of us had this, this connection that was really, really cool and, and it lived on so, so yeah. 00;13;39;24 – 00;14;01;08 Tom To fast forward many years obviously at that point I’ll tell what got us to tell it you know I’ll explain what got us to Togiak and then of course Souza which you can elaborate on to the actual trip. I think you know better than I. But for me it was that direct connection to Jordan Larsen. Like once I knew, you know, he and his brother bought the place and they did. 00;14;01;10 – 00;14;22;17 Tom They had their feet under them. They were doing well. I had this conversation with Jordan Larsen. One day he called me up and it was a couple of years ago and he’s like, Hey, I want to have you and your family out there. So my family meeting my wife and my daughter and so to make a long story short, you know, two months later, my wife, my daughter and myself were on a plane heading to Togiak. 00;14;22;17 – 00;14;43;11 Tom So that was my first. And there to Togiak. And as you can imagine, getting to experience that with my wife, with my daughter and Jordan and step foot on it for the very first time, it was it was a mindblowing experience and many on many, many levels, you know, probably way more levels than we have time to go into on this pod. 00;14;43;11 – 00;14;43;26 Dave Right. 00;14;44;02 – 00;15;01;06 Tom And I’m happy to back up to some of that if you want to later. But now I’ll fast forward to a year later. And last and I were talking about how, man, you know, I said to him, I’m like, I would love to create, you know, content up here. And I had, of course, documented my trip on my wife, my daughter. 00;15;01;06 – 00;15;27;23 Tom But I said I’d love to create a piece that is timeless for you and your brother and your family to tell this story, you know, and and through him being a student and that whole thing. And so that’s how that trip came about. We decided, hey, we’re going to make a two part, quote unquote, episode or two short films based around this story of him going through the schools, meeting me, me meeting him and him buying this lodge and going on to do it. 00;15;28;14 – 00;15;36;19 Tom So that’s what we decided to do. And I of course, now the it’s because he’s my right hand man and I know he loves to fly fish. So, Jordan, I’ll let you take it from there. 00;15;36;19 – 00;16;08;03 Speaker 4 But yeah, I mean, I remember one time it called me, it was earlier in the year and he’s like, Hey, there’s this possibility. We’ll go out to Togiak and tell the story of the Larsen boys. And I had actually lived in Alaska right after college for a short stint and didn’t think I’d ever, like, really go back. And when Tommy called me, I was like, Oh man, I’ll do whatever I got to do to go on this trip, to obviously go see Jordan and meet his brother and his family and help tell this story. 00;16;08;21 – 00;16;38;01 Speaker 4 And what I love about Alaska is that it is so wild and it is so diverse. And the togiak, when you fly in and land on that gravel strip, you immediately feel that wildness and typical Alaska fashion. It was raining, so conditions were not ideal. But we all suited up in our rain gear, got into boats and the guides and everyone there were so helpful. 00;16;38;01 – 00;17;02;28 Speaker 4 And you know, from a videographer standpoint, you kind of like it when it said dramatic out because it just helps tell and pull that emotion out. So like we were filming and shooting photos of, you know, the guides and everyone getting into the boats. And I’ll never forget when Tom and I pulled up to the lodge for the first time and I was like, Holy smokes, there’s like a five star resort out in the middle of nowhere. 00;17;03;13 – 00;17;11;08 Speaker 4 Yeah. And, you know, they greet you and Tommy, you know, asking. He’s like, You ready for a warm cup of coffee. 00;17;11;18 – 00;17;12;07 Jorden You know? 00;17;12;08 – 00;17;14;06 Speaker 4 And I was like, Yeah. 00;17;14;16 – 00;17;15;05 Jorden Yeah. 00;17;15;13 – 00;17;18;28 Speaker 4 And then you just walk in the lodge down pouring. 00;17;19;13 – 00;17;19;29 Jorden Yeah. 00;17;20;05 – 00;17;23;14 Dave Was the river. So there was on the rise a little bit when you guys got there. 00;17;23;16 – 00;17;25;04 Jorden It was, yeah. Yeah. 00;17;25;13 – 00;17;47;13 Speaker 4 And just that whole experience of walking into the main lodge and, you know, all the guides and workers just greeting you with a smile and it just really made you feel welcomed. And then, you know, Jordan and his brother, you know, gave a welcome speech and the trip just continued to get better from that point on. And obviously, Tom and I had never spay fish before. 00;17;47;13 – 00;18;07;25 Speaker 4 So, you know, we’re cute little kids in a candy shop just itching to go try it and learn from the guys. And and in wanting to with being a, you know, a videographer and a photographer being able to capture, you know, just at pier cast, you know, just fly fishing is so beautiful to film. And then you add that you’re in Alaska as well, too. 00;18;07;25 – 00;18;21;08 Speaker 4 And it’s just like, I don’t know if we can get really much better than this. So pushing record, you know, is is not a struggle. You know, you’re just wanting to film as much as possible because you want to capture all of it. 00;18;21;15 – 00;18;29;19 Dave Yeah. Or are you guys doing that while you’re there? Was that the idea on that trip that you were trying to capture for this? Were you building these the video out on that trip? 00;18;29;28 – 00;18;52;22 Tom Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, it was it was kind of this twofold execution from a photo and video standpoint. I wanted to create that story of, again, Jordan becoming from student to owner to today, you know, to press. So that being first and foremost, to tell that story for his him and his brother’s eyes and his family’s eyes. 00;18;53;12 – 00;19;18;21 Tom But then also just in general, I know. SOUZA It’s and I were like, you know, we’re going to capture as much on the water stuff with this new because, you know, the space fishing operation for Larsen, it’s new, right? And they have grand ideas in these things. So we said, look, we’re going to we’re going to capture as much as we can and as much as you want for additional content for you to kind of, you know, for promotional purposes moving forward and so on and so forth. 00;19;18;21 – 00;19;21;14 Tom So it was kind of a, you know, a twofold operation there. 00;19;21;20 – 00;19;24;22 Dave Is that video out there now or is it can people. 00;19;24;28 – 00;19;47;13 Tom Yeah, absolutely. So my show airs on a platform called Carbon TV. If you’ve not heard of it, it’s a free platform, digital. You can get it virtually anywhere. You can go online to carbon TV, you can download the app on Roku or any of your smart TVs and watch it that way. It is free. You just got to create an account and watch. 00;19;48;12 – 00;20;07;13 Tom The show is called The Graduate. The Graduates. You can either search it once you get it in the app or you can go over to at that very top the banner images that scroll. We are an exclusive show on that network. So if you just scroll over a few, you’ll find it. A matter of fact, it’s a photo, a Jordan Souza. 00;20;07;13 – 00;20;10;12 Tom It’s an I fist bump in in Montana. 00;20;10;12 – 00;20;11;12 Dave But oh nice. 00;20;11;19 – 00;20;18;06 Tom All the graduates and if you and if you do get there, just look for Togiak Part one and TOGIAK part two. 00;20;18;13 – 00;20;18;26 Jorden Okay. 00;20;19;08 – 00;20;27;16 Tom So it won’t be hard to find. Once you find the show. You look under season one, you’ll find it. And it’s probably, I think it’s like episode five and six or something like that. 00;20;27;21 – 00;20;32;28 Dave Yeah, five or six. Okay, so we can watch that and we watch that for free. That’s cool. It’s there now. Yeah. 00;20;32;28 – 00;20;54;04 Tom Yeah, absolutely it is. Yeah, yeah. And it came out super, super happy with how it came out. I know when we sat down and watched it as a group once I finished them, you know, I know Lars and his brother, his mother, they were all, you know, in tears and, you know, like it pulls out the emotion of the entire story. 00;20;54;20 – 00;21;08;22 Tom And but yeah, it keeps the rawness of of togiak and the beauty of the fly fishing intact throughout that story. So I think, yeah, not to pat ourselves on the back, but I think we did a pretty damn good job at what our. 00;21;09;02 – 00;21;09;07 Jorden Our. 00;21;09;08 – 00;21;10;00 Tom Vision was. 00;21;10;00 – 00;21;10;22 Dave Yeah, that’s. 00;21;10;22 – 00;21;13;21 Tom Awesome. Gordon Shot last hour. Souza It’s by the way. 00;21;13;23 – 00;21;18;11 Dave Yeah. And. Souza It’s was there. Jordan You were there too. Is shooting. You guys were shooting a lot of the shots. 00;21;18;23 – 00;21;30;20 Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah. It was honestly just a dream trip to be able to do what we love as videographers and photographers, but then also to be able to pick up a spare rod for the first time. I mean, a dream come true. 00;21;30;25 – 00;21;50;15 Dave Yeah. What did that feel like? Jordan, You were you have a lot of experience. So you mentioned in Michigan of working for a big kind of a very well known fly shop there, doing some marketing stuff. What was it like to pick up that speed rod for the first time? And one of the because we talk about this, I mean, we’ve got a lot of listeners that are big Spangler Steele had for many years and then the Chinook fishing. 00;21;50;15 – 00;22;04;04 Dave For me, it was actually my first time really legit chase swinging for Chinook like that, you know, And it’s a it’s a I mean, a crazy right. And so what was it like for you guys to pick up the speed rod? First off, Did you pick it up pretty quick? And then what did it feel like? 00;22;04;18 – 00;22;26;14 Speaker 4 I mean, for me personally, I mean, it was intimidating because I’m a single hand, you know, nine foot five weight class and drive flies, you know, So it’s like when you pick up a 13 foot rod and you got to use two hands. You know, there’s a lot of mechanics that I was not familiar with. So, you know, Larsen was with us and then our guide. 00;22;26;14 – 00;22;52;25 Speaker 4 ARENBERG which is another true gem of a human. We spent the first afternoon or first morning or whatever it was, and they just kind of walked us through Tom and I and how to, you know, roll cast that big rod, you know, get that line up and off the wall from underneath the water column and and then you work into the whole spey cast and you know, Alaska is definitely a place if you want to learn and catch fish spearfishing. 00;22;52;26 – 00;23;11;27 Speaker 4 It is a great opportunity because, you know, a number of fish are there. So, you know, for Tom and I to be able to pick up spearfishing and then actually catch fish doing it, Alaska is definitely a place to do it because it’s like if you are here in northern Michigan where numbers aren’t as high, it can get frustrating. 00;23;11;27 – 00;23;29;08 Speaker 4 But just that it is 100% a different feel from a single hand. Rod being able to chuck that line out there, you know, 60, 70 feet and then watching Aaron chuck it out there 100 feet. It’s just like I want to learn to do that. That looks sweet. 00;23;29;23 – 00;23;30;00 Jorden Yeah. 00;23;30;08 – 00;23;31;28 Tom By the way, Effortless. 00;23;32;07 – 00;23;33;12 Jorden Yeah, Effortless. 00;23;33;23 – 00;23;45;04 Speaker 4 Yeah. And you know, from my time just, you know, the short, I think Tom had maybe fished maybe a handful of times on the wire because we were, you know, filming all the time together. 00;23;45;04 – 00;23;46;17 Tom It was either all together. 00;23;46;17 – 00;23;48;10 Jorden All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;23;48;15 – 00;24;13;12 Speaker 4 I’ve taken that passion that I gained in the togiak, and I. I picked up a spare rod and started space station here in northern Michigan. And honestly, I always kind of prefer space fishing and swing and flies over single hand. Now it’s just a tie and, you know, intruders all the time and just what can I do? And it’s weird because I’m in the Midwest and I know it’s such a big thing out out West. 00;24;13;12 – 00;24;17;14 Speaker 4 And, you know, on the coastal area, chase and steelhead and and salmon and stuff. 00;24;17;14 – 00;24;18;24 Dave So it’s so cool. 00;24;19;02 – 00;24;19;15 Jorden Yeah. 00;24;19;23 – 00;24;36;01 Dave You have that bug. I mean, that’s the thing about this the cool thing about fly fishing is it’s totally there’s so many things you could do, you know, And you could do it all or you could do it go as deep as you want. But the space thing, we have a good contingent here because, you know, obviously we the first podcast season we had the first three episode are all Steelhead. 00;24;36;13 – 00;24;54;02 Dave You know, we talked about swinging flies based basically on the West Coast. You know, since then, you know, nine years ago, we’ve expanded into all fly fishing. But, you know, for example, I mean, Tom, I know you’re in Ohio, you know, one of our in or one of our podcast hosts, Jeff Lisk, who’s one of the best space anglers in the country, is right there on the south shore of Lake Erie. 00;24;54;02 – 00;25;10;04 Dave And we’ve actually fished that that area, which is cool, you know. And so I, I feel like the swing thing is you obviously you have the West Coast, you know, with the native fish and all that stuff. But yeah, from day one we’ve pretty much been fishing those Great Lakes fish. And I can tell you that’s a pretty unique fishery. 00;25;10;16 – 00;25;17;06 Dave You know, on the south shore of Lake Erie. Did you realize that, Tom, where you’re at, that that’s such a steelhead kind of mecca? No, Steelhead alley. 00;25;17;08 – 00;25;28;26 Tom Not at all. Not at all. No, no, no. That’s really interesting to learn and actually pretty intriguing. So I know I had no idea. I had no idea. Yeah, we got to. We got to plan a trip, apparently. 00;25;29;01 – 00;25;30;06 Jorden Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;25;30;12 – 00;25;46;11 Dave I mean, you’re the most. The interesting thing is, I think the numbers, at least on the South shore there, they have some hatchery I think closed down during COVID or something like that or didn’t do a brood or something. But but the numbers are down a little bit. But again, it’s pretty cool because the numbers when we were there were crazy. 00;25;46;18 – 00;26;04;11 Dave You know, we had one of the guys literally caught a fish and Ed caught a fish fishing all traditional flies like a bamboo rod. He built a silk fly line. He used Horsehair leader. It was like this whole thing. Right? And, and so anyways, but my point is, is that, you know, angling for swinging flies is all over the world. 00;26;04;11 – 00;26;21;20 Dave You know, like people are just whether you’re in Norway or whatever, you got this dedicated contingent, But you guys experience one of those places at Togiak, which is if you talk about your top places to swing and species, that’s definitely one of them. But maybe tell me more on the trip. So you guys were there. Were you there the whole week? 00;26;21;20 – 00;26;28;20 Dave Kind of like arrive. I came in, wasn’t arrive on Sunday or maybe talk about that a little bit. When did you guys get there and what was the week like? 00;26;29;01 – 00;26;52;20 Tom Well, I mean, you know, it it yeah, I think Jordan runs, what, five day actual fishing trips. You know, you fish your day. And so yeah, we did say the entire time and we didn’t, we didn’t fly in late or fly out early and so we were on the, the normal rotation, so to speak. So yeah, I mean we went in and you know, I think not to get to Stuart too deep into the production end of things, but I mean we went, we went in it with a plan. 00;26;52;24 – 00;27;08;06 Tom Jordan says with an eye. You know, we had a we had a written out plan of what we knew we wanted to capture. So we had to execute a certain level of that. In fact, I think it was Navy, even. Ben Was it the first day, Jordan that we sacrificed and didn’t go out that arrival day? 00;27;08;22 – 00;27;09;03 Jorden Yeah. 00;27;09;13 – 00;27;33;08 Tom Number one, it was, as we mentioned, just raining like absolute crazy. And we said, you know, listen, not that we’re scared of that. We’re we’re a hunters and fishermen. We go out and that any day we knew there were there was content, like interviews, controlled content that we needed to capture to tell this story between Jordan, his brother, his family and so we use that time. 00;27;33;25 – 00;27;56;03 Tom Day one. That’s what we did, our afternoon one, I should say, and a fair amount of that as well as the following day prior to going, you know, in between fishing, I guess you could say. So, yeah. But other than that, I mean, we were other than capturing that controlled content, we were on a boat fishing and capturing content the entire time as much as everybody else. 00;27;56;20 – 00;28;09;28 Dave Well, what’s your what’s your typical for those people that are into the video of what we’re all kind of we all have the camera in our pocket but like what kind of equipment did you guys have up there? Is that where you you’ve got a ton of production equipment or just a couple of cameras? 00;28;10;09 – 00;28;13;28 Tom Oh, I laughed, Jordan, because I’m going to have to have you tell the one story, you know? I know. 00;28;14;02 – 00;28;15;11 Jorden Yeah. Yeah. 00;28;15;25 – 00;28;40;11 Tom So as far as equipment. And then I’ll let Jordan tell a little funny story about it. But no, I mean, we’re running. I mean, prison staff were running Cannon at the time. We had a cannon. Si 70. That is a cinema style, you know, high end and a video camera as well as cannon. Our six mark two at that time with a wide assortment of lenses and all our audio gear. 00;28;40;11 – 00;28;47;02 Tom I mean, we didn’t go out there with a little camcorder. I mean, we’re standing no, we’re standing in the water with about $10,000 in our hand. 00;28;48;05 – 00;28;48;20 Jorden Right. 00;28;49;07 – 00;29;19;14 Tom So we didn’t skimp out on that. We said, look, you know, yeah, there’s risk involved, but we want this to be to be everything we vision. We want it to be beautiful. We want it to we want it to be a high quality production. So, yeah, we’re out there with gear. We’d, we’d film anything else, anything else with an and I hope and think that’ll reflect if the listeners do go and watch the Togiak episodes, I, I hope they see that and, and that it reflects it. 00;29;19;22 – 00;29;45;12 Tom Well I remember there was a I think Larsen had a fish on and I, I was in the water. We were both in the water. Jordan Souza It’s and I were both in the water capturing content because Aaron and Larsen were fishing. So I think I was over by Aaron or vice versa. It doesn’t even really matter. But I’m over film and one of them and I’m running and I just hear Jordan, I hear Durango, Tom, Tom And I’m like, what? 00;29;45;18 – 00;29;49;00 Tom So go ahead. SuJ I’ll let you play. You fill in there. 00;29;49;13 – 00;30;14;04 Speaker 4 Yeah. I’m like, We have a serious problem. And I was filming Jordan’s brother and I was just in the moment filming this shot with an underwater camera coming up out of the water, getting him, you know, casting the spare rod. And I had the $10,000 camera in my other hand. And as we were as I was filming, I was kind of walking and we were moving into deeper water. 00;30;14;04 – 00;30;25;24 Speaker 4 And that $10,000 camera was on my left side. And like I mentioned, I was in a moment and I looked down and that $10,000 camera’s half underwater. 00;30;26;06 – 00;30;28;15 Dave Oh, it was. And it’s now sweatproof. 00;30;28;15 – 00;30;29;27 Speaker 4 And it’s not waterproof. 00;30;30;22 – 00;30;35;20 Jorden And I was like, Oh, this isn’t like this. Oh, wow. Wow. 00;30;35;20 – 00;30;38;09 Dave Yeah. So what was some of what happened? 00;30;38;25 – 00;31;04;16 Speaker 4 So immediately, you know, the crew came to the boat and took me up to the lodge and we put all the camera, you know, the camera gear in there, generator room to try and dry it out. And in the meantime, I thought I put the battery in my pocket and got to the generator room and realized I had probably dumped the battery somewhere in the Togiak River. 00;31;04;16 – 00;31;06;23 Dave So it watery? 00;31;06;28 – 00;31;09;24 Speaker 4 Yeah, it just was a complete mess. 00;31;09;24 – 00;31;13;29 Dave And so you had no $10,000 camera after that one, correct? 00;31;14;09 – 00;31;27;21 Tom Correct. Yeah. What We immediately put it in the generator room and took all parts off of it and just left it in there to dry the rest of the trip. We didn’t even attempt a lot of times attempting to turn it on or push it can act. 00;31;27;26 – 00;31;29;23 Dave Ruin it. Yeah. Yeah. 00;31;30;01 – 00;31;37;06 Tom We left it alone and it’s it really, regardless how expensive the camera is, it was just like that was our primary camera, you know? 00;31;37;06 – 00;31;38;16 Dave Yeah. That was your main camera, right? 00;31;38;16 – 00;31;52;06 Tom Our main camera. And Jordan was just beside himself. In fact, the battery thing honestly, would probably came out of, like, just extreme chaos, right, Jordan? Like, then you fall or something like that. Oh, yeah. 00;31;52;06 – 00;32;11;09 Speaker 4 I was pure panic mode. Just like we need to get this thing. The shore dried out as quickly as possible and yeah, it wasn’t a good feeling, but we were still able to, you know, film the rest of the week. And it just was I was beside myself and like, luckily we were in the togiak to make it feel a little bit better. 00;32;12;17 – 00;32;32;17 Tom As you could tell. Souza Which was down in the dumps, and I don’t bring that story up to pick on. Yeah, Jordan’s Jordan’s out of business for sure, and I trust him with anything I own. Yeah, you know, but, but my point in bringing it up is like, you know, you ask the question, what kind of gear? It’s like those are the sacrifices, you know, that you got to make for a quality piece. 00;32;32;17 – 00;32;53;26 Tom And, and that turned out to be one of those that, yeah, the sacrifice became a little bit real. But you know, that’s what insurance is for and all that and right. You know, life goes on and and it didn’t affect the end result really at all. It was in fact, I remember sitting around camp later that day, it was hard to get Jordan out of his dumps that he was in. 00;32;53;26 – 00;32;58;15 Tom And I’m like, dude, back to your point, Dave. It’s like, look around, look outside. 00;32;58;16 – 00;32;59;09 Dave Yeah, look around. 00;32;59;13 – 00;33;11;15 Tom Look at that mountain range. Look at the bodies you’re around. I know. I’m worried about it. I own the damn thing. I’m not worried about it. You know, we’re good. Let’s. Let’s smile, boy. Let’s move on. And the togiak has a way of healing pretty quick, so. 00;33;11;17 – 00;33;28;21 Dave Yeah, Yeah, it does It. It has a way of. It was interesting because on our trip we had there is some bug going around and, and one of the, the, the guys from Grandin’s were there and one of them was sick as a dog and he actually didn’t even fish I think a couple of days and I got it too. 00;33;28;21 – 00;33;29;07 Dave And I was. 00;33;29;11 – 00;33;29;24 Jorden Oh. 00;33;30;09 – 00;33;45;10 Dave Yeah. Had I was like, oh my God, the trip of a lifetime. And I’m just feeling like and I remember that morning I was like, ah, that night I think I was like, okay, what am I going to do? And, and that morning I got up and I just forced myself, even though I was sick and I got out and, and I got my best fish that day. 00;33;45;15 – 00;33;46;13 Speaker 4 That’s awesome. 00;33;46;20 – 00;33;48;20 Dave Yeah, I got my best fish that day. It was awesome. 00;33;49;00 – 00;33;49;06 Tom Good. 00;33;49;07 – 00;33;50;02 Jorden That’s amazing. 00;33;50;02 – 00;34;10;04 Dave Yeah. Yeah. Actually, we were fishing with. We were fishing with Larry. It was awesome. Larry was thinking, What the guy there? You guys probably had him up there and he’s a he’s a I think he’s a he’s a michigan, I think up there somewhere in that area. Right. But Larry, did you guys have Larry, did you know he was probably doing some other stuff because you were with Zach most or with which or in most the direct or. 00;34;10;09 – 00;34;11;08 Tom Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;34;11;08 – 00;34;29;26 Dave Yeah, yeah. Well, Larry is a piece of work if you don’t know him, you should connect. He is like a fire pack of fire. Just got odd out there. And that’s the cool thing about Togiak is the guides. You know, this is not just a random assortment of, like, kind of, you know, kind of newbies. I mean, these are all like spay for the most part, hardcore spay guys, you know. 00;34;29;26 – 00;34;44;19 Dave And I got Floyd is another one. So anyways, I think I we’re telling a kind of a great story here on that. But and the other thing with the camera is I mean I want to ask you guys a few tips on the camera, but I think that’s part of it, right? Getting a different everybody sees these photos and videos. 00;34;44;19 – 00;34;53;24 Dave It’s like the same thing. Get having the right camera gives you a different angle. Right. A different perspective. Is that key? What are you guys thinking about that when you prepared for this for that trip to having something, It looks different. 00;34;54;05 – 00;35;15;05 Tom You know. I mean, a little bit. Yes, a little bit. No, You know, being being the guy that that, you know, teaches this stuff, I’m a little reluctant to always say, hey, it’s about the camera, It’s about the gear. I’m I mean, there’s that is Dave. There’s no doubt about it. Right? There’s a separation of quality. Once you get to a certain level of gear or camera. 00;35;15;16 – 00;35;36;27 Tom But ultimately, I think it’s more about it’s more about the eye and the creative behind that. And that knowledge of how to use it. I think, moreover, you know, more importantly, it’s like anybody can own $1,000 mirrorless camera, $3,000 mirrorless camera. But do you know how to use it? And do you have the eye to portrait what it is you’re seeing when you stand there and look out? 00;35;37;02 – 00;35;39;07 Jorden Right. You know, how do you get that? 00;35;39;07 – 00;35;46;25 Dave How do you develop that eye? Is it just like anything where you just have to put the reps in and eventually or there are some people that just have that that creative. 00;35;46;25 – 00;35;49;21 Tom Eye you see, Dave, you sign up for one of our class. 00;35;49;21 – 00;35;53;11 Jorden Yeah, there you go. You guys said the other day you have a session of this. Yeah. 00;35;53;18 – 00;36;03;11 Dave And I want to I actually want to hear you because I think this is really for me. I’m interested. In fact, I would probably be one of your best students, you know, whatever. But yeah, you guys kind of cover all this stuff. 00;36;03;19 – 00;36;25;05 Tom Yeah, we do. And I mean, I it’s. I said that jokingly, of course, but at the same time I do mean it. And, and I’ll say this, you know, I remember late nineties sitting down with my mentor, barely had ever held a camera, you know, certainly not professionally. And I remember him watching some of the stuff I had shot throughout the course of that day. 00;36;25;05 – 00;36;42;23 Tom And he said to me something along the lines of there’s nothing about a camera that I can teach you that you don’t already know. That’s almost verbatim to what he told. And I remember looking at him and I was like, Len, I have no like, I don’t know what any of these buttons are. I don’t know what the heck I’m doing. 00;36;42;23 – 00;37;00;07 Tom I don’t know what you’re talking about. Now, this is a 90 year old professional, you know, I mean, what the wildlife photographer in the world at that time and and he’s telling me this and I said, I don’t know. I said, I don’t really don’t know what you’re saying then. And he looked at me and he goes, You have an eye for it. 00;37;00;11 – 00;37;18;27 Tom I can’t necessarily teach you that. I can teach you all the buttons. So I say that to then say to you, that became kind of one of my later life goals. And that’s how I produced, you know, came up with this curriculum in this school is because I said no. I mean, there are people that have the eye that don’t know. 00;37;18;27 – 00;37;22;05 Tom They have the I want to help draw it out in them. I want to find. 00;37;22;17 – 00;37;22;23 Jorden Oh. 00;37;23;09 – 00;37;54;04 Tom So I believe our program can not only find the eyes, but they I think our curriculum actually develops eyes to a point. Right. Like there are there is a way to take someone that maybe doesn’t have a natural eye and make them find an eye for it. So that’s a real like 30,000 foot view of that. But so, yeah, I, I definitely encourage somebody that is really wanting to get into this. 00;37;54;18 – 00;38;01;02 Tom You need it’s not as much about the gear as it is. It’s finding your eye and training, getting a true training in it. 00;38;01;05 – 00;38;27;16 Dave That’s so cool. Yeah. I feel like for my I’ve talked about this before on some of the stuff I’ve done and I feel like when it changed for me is when I started investing in myself. That quote I always think about that invest in yourself. And I did a lot of my own right trying to learn everything. And then as soon as I started paying coaches and and, you know, classes and courses and paying for stuff, I was like, Oh, wow, this actually levels me up quicker because you avoid Is your program like online? 00;38;27;19 – 00;38;36;20 Dave Maybe Describe that a little bit if someone is listening and they want to learn about it, is this something where they can do it all online? They could purchase it? Or is this something also you can do? It sounds like there’s an in-person piece too. 00;38;36;24 – 00;38;55;03 Tom Yeah, I had the majorities in person. Honestly, you know it film. The Ecom is is the website. You can find it all there. I do. I do have an online class. I’m going to say that it’s I developed it primarily for those that kind of they don’t want to leave the couch or or maybe they don’t want to. 00;38;55;03 – 00;39;23;05 Tom I’ll use your words, Dave, because you’re 100% right. They’re not ready to invest themselves. So that that online piece is primarily for those individuals. Or maybe they just don’t have the budget. You know, the true education is, is definitely in our in-person classes. I mean, you’re talking for I have multiple levels of field production and production you’re talking about for day, for night, all inclusive inside what I call the production bubble, right? 00;39;23;05 – 00;39;45;14 Tom Your your structured classroom, your hands on even after hours, we’re sitting around and you’re sitting around eight other eight professional instructors and you’re picking their brains and and you’re sitting around a campfire like it’d be like Zodiac after hours. I mean, some of the best conversations and some growth. And heck, have you ever learned something about fly fishing sitting around at one of those tables? 00;39;45;16 – 00;40;01;12 Tom I bet. Yet, you know, like, that’s why I tell people it’s like I think our in-person classes, I would argue that there’s as much value in the networking in everything that is around that structured education as there is the actual structured education that comes along with it. 00;40;01;24 – 00;40;18;24 Dave Yeah, it makes sense. Okay, cool. So and we obviously got that off the film The Hunt dot com Jordan on you. I’m interested because you have the connection obviously you’ve got more of the fly connection when you when you come back after the Togiak experience you’re thinking about the space So it sounds like you’ve implemented some of that. 00;40;19;01 – 00;40;26;27 Dave Maybe first before you talk about that, tell us about the fly shop you work for and kind of what you’re doing there and then how you’ve, you know, what you’ve been thinking about on the space side. 00;40;26;27 – 00;40;53;26 Speaker 4 Yeah, absolutely. So I work for a Sable River Outfitters, and the name of our fly shop is a Sable River Angler and main focus is our fly shop and then also our archery shop. But when I came back from the Togiak, I was like, Man, I don’t see hardly anyone space fishing in Michigan. And so I got online, Googled like, what are some rivers we can spearfish fish? 00;40;53;26 – 00;41;24;00 Speaker 4 And so talking to a few buddies like I kind of dabbled in it, but like I was like, Man, this is a great marketing tool to get people just another avenue to get out and fish. And so I bought a spare on the whole set up and just went out and took the knowledge I had learned from Aaron and Jordan and Floyd and just, you know, all the people at the Togiak and I was like, I’m going to keep at this because I love it and I want people to feel what I feel when I get it. 00;41;24;07 – 00;42;00;17 Speaker 4 Get in the water and cast. And so just, you know, been photographing and, you know, sharing my experience. And luckily, I have caught a few fish here in Michigan on this bay rod. And it’s just like, you know, one thing to catch a dry fish and a dry feed because that is pure magic. But when you’ve tied your own intruder or spay fly and swing that spay or let fly through the water, so peer that a fish takes it, I mean, there’s really nothing in my opinion that’s better. 00;42;00;17 – 00;42;19;09 Speaker 4 So I want people again to feel that. So I’ve been really pushing towards marketing that here in Michigan. And then to also have also found that you can bass fish with the spare rod, you can swing for northern pike. You know, there’s lots of areas here in Michigan where we can enjoy that spare cast. 00;42;19;25 – 00;42;38;16 Dave So yeah, So tell us about I think Dry Fly is interesting because the dry fly I mean, we just got done with, you know, our fly fishing boot camp. We had some great instructors on that were talking about everything and we talked about dry flies. We covered everything in fly fishing. But I feel like the dry fly is this ultimate level, especially matching the hatch and the whole hatch. 00;42;38;16 – 00;42;50;06 Dave I mean, you’re kind of in that place, but the space is little. How how do you explain that the difference between somebody who hasn’t, you the the difference between you as a getting into space because it’s different than dry fire. Right. But you get a similar experience. 00;42;50;19 – 00;43;17;21 Speaker 4 100% because, you know, with with space you you induce current and yeah, you can catch a fish out of top water you know because I know guys were catching rainbow trout on mouse and togiak on the swing but you still have to present that fly in a proper natural way on the swing for a fish to take it right, you have to fool that fish on that proper natural swing. 00;43;18;12 – 00;43;43;18 Speaker 4 And it’s the same way with dry, right? You can’t have any drag. You can’t dry. Fly has to be presented in such a natural way that that fish it feels enticed to go up and take it. So I feel like there’s that similarity to, you know, swimming in a fly to also dry fly. But it’s the unknown right on the swing because it’s like you’re you’re anticipating as you have that ride to your your side, you’re just anticipating in that tug. 00;43;43;18 – 00;43;59;02 Speaker 4 And I’ve been fortunate enough to go down to the south and bonefish and and I live for that tug. Like when you feel a king or a coho or a steelhead, grab that swing, fly. It is just like. 00;43;59;12 – 00;44;05;19 Jorden Oh, boy, oh boy, oh, boy. Not to see. Yeah, like that. Not Yeah, this way. Just rest right side. Yeah. 00;44;06;05 – 00;44;15;22 Speaker 4 And so it’s, it’s such a rewarding feeling when you can set that hook. And I don’t know, it’s, I thoroughly enjoy it. It is a lot of fun to swing flies. 00;44;15;25 – 00;44;20;03 Dave Yeah. So you were able to hook into a few kings up there in Alaska. 00;44;20;24 – 00;44;41;25 Speaker 4 Yeah, in it it was funny because, Tom, you know, let me go up into the boat first. He’s a guy like Jordan. You go, you catch first. And we literally just went across the river from where we were, where we were, you know, practicing our space class and all that. And it legitimately was my first cast record. I think they call him Jacks. 00;44;41;25 – 00;44;42;06 Speaker 4 Yeah. 00;44;42;15 – 00;44;42;25 Dave Yeah. 00;44;43;18 – 00;44;45;05 Speaker 4 Super Jack is Super Jack. 00;44;45;05 – 00;44;46;27 Jorden Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;44;47;17 – 00;44;55;01 Speaker 4 I’ll never forget when this Super Jack is just tugging away and Aaron’s like, Set the hook. Set the hook. I’m like, I don’t know what to do with my hand. 00;44;55;02 – 00;44;57;00 Jorden That’s like, I was so. 00;44;57;00 – 00;44;59;26 Speaker 4 Excited and that thing took off and it was just. 00;45;01;03 – 00;45;02;13 Jorden Kind guy. It was cool. 00;45;02;23 – 00;45;10;04 Speaker 4 It was. And like, I didn’t care that it was a Super Jack because it was one of the best rides of my life with the fly rods. 00;45;10;07 – 00;45;23;25 Dave I was the same way the first one I caught was the Super end to be straight. I can’t remember the exact nerve, but I mean a Super Jack is up to I think they’re up to like £15. So there’s somewhere in there still or somewhere in that range, you know? So there’s still a super nice fish I might be a little off in that might be a little lower, but. 00;45;24;10 – 00;45;40;16 Dave But yeah, it’s that tug. You know, George Cook, who’s been on the podcast a number of times, he talks about it as chewing the gum, you know, he’s like, Yeah, let him chew the gum before you do anything. And that’s kind of the the difference with steelhead. With steelhead, you pretty much, you know, you just let them they set the hook for you. 00;45;40;16 – 00;45;56;03 Dave You know, you kind of don’t do anything. But with Chinook, you have to let them chew the gum to the guy and not to you can’t you can’t set the hook too early. But then once you do it, you got to really lay the lumber to him. Right? Like to describe that? How did how was that first one with you, Hook? 00;45;56;03 – 00;45;58;04 Dave Did you really eventually lay the lumber to it? 00;45;58;17 – 00;46;18;16 Speaker 4 I did. And I, I can’t remember the name, the spot we were at. But yeah, this thing is just chew and the gum hard and it’s just like. So I set the hook and just, you know, I had set it to my right side and didn’t realize because so many things have to go right, you know, to land a big Chinook salmon. 00;46;18;16 – 00;46;36;23 Speaker 4 Like so many things. And I was so excited because this thing is just pulling. But I had my rod so close to my waders and my side that when he started pulling drag, my real guy caught in my belt. And so it just hit a brick wall and it snapped and oh. 00;46;36;23 – 00;46;37;15 Dave You broke it off. 00;46;37;25 – 00;46;38;29 Speaker 4 Broke it off like. 00;46;38;29 – 00;46;42;18 Dave Oh, nice. So your first so the first fish you hooked, you actually broke off? 00;46;43;12 – 00;47;02;08 Speaker 4 Well, the Super Jack I landed. We landed actually. True adult king. I broke off and. Oh wow. But it was still that that 15, 20 seconds of pure excitement was unreal. Like, yeah, yeah. I didn’t get to put my hands on him, but still, that was incredible. Incredible. 00;47;02;17 – 00;47;16;18 Dave Yeah, that’s it. That’s, that’s the cool thing about that tug is that it’s like almost it’s almost all you need. You know, when you get into this, once you’ve landed a number of fish, you know, I had one on the opposition this, you know, last week or a couple of weeks ago. And I never I saw the fish. 00;47;16;18 – 00;47;29;28 Dave It jumped out of the water right in front of me. And I lost it. But I was like, wow. I mean, that was enough. That’s all. I was good. You know what I mean? That was the only fish I actually saw that day. But I was like, I was, you know, I was good. I was content, but cool. 00;47;29;28 – 00;47;43;20 Dave And then and then, you know, I mean, the trip, what else would you go, guys? I mean, we don’t have a ton of time here. We’re going to wrap it up in a bit. But just the experience, we’ve talked about it. Anything else you guys want to make sure we understand about, like togiak, the experience that that we haven’t covered here today? 00;47;44;02 – 00;48;04;02 Tom Okay. Yeah, I do want to make mention of you know, I think this this obviously goes for the guys at Togiak with any type of fishing they’re doing. But, you know, take me for instance here. Ere’s a guy coming in that, you know, I was there, man. If I finished, it was just like a bonus. I was there for so many other reasons, you know, not a fly fisherman. 00;48;04;08 – 00;48;25;20 Tom So therefore I looked at myself coming in, and this when I hopped in the boat with Jordan and Aaron, I was like, I looked at both. I said, Look, I’m probably going to be your best student because I don’t have any bad habits. Bring it to the table here. So I think, you know, what I’m getting at is, number one, the way Aaron is specifically is just so patient. 00;48;25;20 – 00;48;26;17 Dave Yeah, Aaron’s awesome. 00;48;26;22 – 00;48;44;19 Tom And oh my gosh, his teaching styles, you know, he’s just a, you know, big, burly fishing guide on the togiak, but yet he’s like this teddy bear of a human and just enacts with you. He’s a very good educator. I know educators. He’s very good at it and very pragmatic. He was very quick as I was making a mistake. 00;48;44;19 – 00;49;07;03 Tom He’s not going to let it fly. He’s like, you know, Tom, I remember this. Remember that? You know, And I, I do feel like probably a combination of me being very green and having no bad habits. And then, Aaron, with the combination of Jordan Larsen as great teachers, I mean, I got that swing, which to me looks like a very difficult thing to Matt like to get down pat. 00;49;07;24 – 00;49;28;28 Tom Hal I definitely didn’t master it, but, you know, I was, I was casting all we and and for the most part understood It was pretty fluent and getting that fly out there. So I guess I just want to say, you know, as far as anybody listening is not man or whatever man hat for them. And I’m excited to see what they do on this new on the Spey fishing venture, you know? 00;49;29;06 – 00;49;39;15 Dave Yeah, definitely. Yeah. What you’re saying is basically, you know, anybody, regardless of you’ve ever speak has before I can go out there and get the fly, you know, get it out there. Did you, were you able to find a few fish. 00;49;39;24 – 00;50;10;24 Tom Oh yeah. Yeah. I caught a handful and in fact it. Yeah, I don’t remember. I probably 810 fish over the course of the few days in it. And you know I had that big King remember that Jordan the very Yeah it was like the last 20 minutes before we had to bring that boat in and I hooked into this thing and I mean, and much to the same point you made, I got him to within feet of us and Aaron, I’ll never forget Aaron felt so bad and it wasn’t his fault. 00;50;10;24 – 00;50;28;06 Tom It just the way it happened, that thing rolled the neck and just right. You know that that hook came right out of his mouth. We saw him. And I remember Aaron even like, Oh, my God, I like that. That was a toad. And, you know, but he rolled the net and just, boom, came out. But I was like, Aaron, we got that fish. 00;50;28;06 – 00;50;33;23 Tom Like, I feel like we got that fish. And so that was a really cool moment for me. 00;50;33;23 – 00;50;34;23 Dave That’s cool. 00;50;34;23 – 00;50;37;16 Tom Yeah, it was amazing, man. It was awesome. 00;50;37;22 – 00;50;44;15 Speaker 4 I’ll never forget Aaron had to hold on the back of Tom’s waders because that fish was pulling Tom into deeper water. 00;50;44;15 – 00;50;45;19 Tom It was, too. 00;50;45;25 – 00;50;47;05 Speaker 4 It was a massive fish. 00;50;47;14 – 00;50;54;16 Tom It was a big fish. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not a guy to begin with, but that thing was. Yeah, And the thing was made to him. Boy. 00;50;54;27 – 00;51;12;25 Dave That’s cool. Yeah. And the other great thing is, like you said, I mean, Jordan, you’re up there in Michigan and you have these amazing fish, but it’s something different at Togiak because you’re right there in Bristol Bay, like Mile, right? You’re literally miles. These fish are coming off of the most, you know, you know, whatever it goes on at Bristol Bay, you know, it’s one of the largest runs of all. 00;51;12;25 – 00;51;21;27 Dave And I only sockeye it is the largest run of sockeye in the world there. But they also have these amazing Chinook, which is still a stronghold for Chinook, even though there are some declines around. 00;51;22;13 – 00;51;43;11 Speaker 4 Well, in talking about the Chinook, like where the Togiak Lodge is located, it’s only, I think, two or three miles from the mouth of the ocean as it enters the freshwater system. So there was guys catching fresh, fresh Chinook. I mean, they still had sea ice on them and everything. Like it was like these fish were so powerful. 00;51;43;11 – 00;51;50;13 Speaker 4 And like you talking about wanting to go on a fun ride, hooking in to one of those, it’s the Togiak is where it’s at. 00;51;50;21 – 00;51;53;25 Dave Yeah. And it’s a big river, too, right? It’s definitely a massive river. 00;51;54;04 – 00;51;55;11 Jorden Yeah, it is huge. 00;51;56;06 – 00;52;03;08 Tom Yeah. I’ve been there twice now and I feel like I’ve. I’ve not seen the same spot twice, you know, outside of right out in front of the lodge. It’s. Yeah. 00;52;03;13 – 00;52;19;08 Dave Yeah. Well when you go out at this, you know, both you guys have to spend time, you know, fish to hunt. You know, I feel like we have a bunch of hunters, obviously, in our a lot of people that love all sorts of outdoor activities. But, I mean, I was thinking today, I think about fish, you know, fish, the swing or film the swing. 00;52;19;16 – 00;52;32;14 Dave I feel like that was kind of a cool that that resonates with me, the name. But when you go into, you know, do you go into like the Togiak film the same way you would go into a film about hunting or anything else? Is it always the same steps that go through. 00;52;32;22 – 00;52;46;12 Tom To 100%? And, you know, I think it’s it’s part of what I teach. Like, I don’t I don’t see why in an outdoor television it’s seen such a change over the last 25 years. And I will I know we are almost out of time. 00;52;46;13 – 00;52;48;05 Dave Oh, no, no. Yeah, go for it. 00;52;48;06 – 00;53;09;16 Tom A little heartstring with me. So it’s like things have changed, so drastically over the 25 years and outdoor television. And more recently, I think it’s become you know, it’s more about telling quality stories. And in sharing, you know, more about the hunt or the fishing adventure itself, not necessarily about how many fish did you bring to the shore or. 00;53;09;18 – 00;53;10;11 Dave Around a. 00;53;10;22 – 00;53;13;11 Tom Deer. Are we going to kill in 22 minutes or whatever? 00;53;13;12 – 00;53;14;08 Jorden Yeah. 00;53;14;18 – 00;53;34;03 Tom So for me personally, and I know Susan Woods feels the same ways by my side all the time, like we’re more about what’s the storyline here, what is going to touch hearts, make people want to watch more, what is going to, you know, be relatable and make connect people to this piece, whether it’s 5 minutes, 10 minutes or an hour long. 00;53;34;20 – 00;53;44;06 Tom So in this case, was the story of the Larsons in the Togiak. But in the next case, it might be about this person in Bozeman, Montana, you know. 00;53;44;06 – 00;53;49;27 Dave A ray or this or this environmental, you know, impact thing that’s going on or some other connection. 00;53;49;28 – 00;54;05;19 Tom Absolutely. You know, so, yeah, what’s the storyline? What’s the topic? Is this informational? Is this educational? Is this entertainment? Is there a heartstring we can put like, what is the story? Always the first question we ask or we go into a production. 00;54;05;19 – 00;54;24;24 Dave Within the storyline. I’m guessing that film, we’ll all watch that at you know, you mentioned it online there. So Jordan kind of the family story, that storyline then, was there a secondary storyline? Do you have kind of different tiers of going down like then there’s something else you’re trying to tell within after you cover the Jordan part of it or within? 00;54;25;03 – 00;54;47;03 Tom Yeah, well, I think there was multi levels of the Jordan Larson part. It was a how we met and how he took our classes and thought he had a path he wanted to take in the production world. But then there was that why in the road where, you know, purchasing the togiak out with his brother and his family and, and then becoming an owner of something like that, was that a significant wide where he almost had to give up production? 00;54;47;03 – 00;54;58;17 Tom So there was that story within the story. And then there was the grand finale of Here They Are, you know, five, six years later running an amazing operation, heavy conservation, all it’s like, yeah. 00;54;58;23 – 00;55;11;28 Dave And the change and the space. Right. That that is a big that’s part of the story again because there was no space program and Jordan has a lot of people said it couldn’t be done go from a killing fish to now you’re a right and that’s a big part of it. 00;55;12;08 – 00;55;32;08 Tom Yeah. So yeah it’s there’s certainly a multilevel story. In fact, it’s one that Susa it’s and I were just talking about that we only I mean from the stories that we captured their interviews like we did extensive interviews with his brother to where he talked a lot about, you know, from a conservation side and the bay and why the space program. 00;55;32;11 – 00;55;46;12 Tom And he went deep into that. So my point is, is like we have a whole nother group where we have more productions we can create from what we captured that week. So, yeah, talk about doing a film for the fly fishing film tour for it. 00;55;46;20 – 00;55;48;23 Dave Yeah, you should be Awesome Nation. 00;55;48;23 – 00;55;54;24 Tom So yeah, it was, it was certainly multi-level story within a story Within a story. 00;55;55;03 – 00;56;12;23 Dave That’s it. That’s really cool. Nice. Like on all these you guys. I mean, we’ve done our best to, you know, tell the story that the great thing about the podcast, I feel, is that I’m always starting. It’s like just getting people, you know, ready to go. And so now they’ve got this video that we talked about. They’ve got your get your program. 00;56;12;23 – 00;56;28;25 Dave You know, if you want to take this further and everything we talked about today, maybe just leave us with a couple of let’s go into the film. I always love this because we’re all we all want to get that photo. So let’s start with both of you guys. I want to hear a couple of photo tips or maybe video tips, somebody on the water, maybe they got their phone in there. 00;56;29;00 – 00;56;43;19 Dave There’s, you know, their pocket, whatever it is, you know, maybe Start with you, Jordan. What are you telling somebody if they’re you know, they want to a great photo outdoors, you know, maybe that’s fishing or whatever. Are there a couple of tips that you would remind people that to not forget about? 00;56;44;02 – 00;57;11;12 Speaker 4 Yeah, one would be for anyone with an iPhone, Android or just, you know, a handheld camera would be to remember to get down to eye level, don’t shoot from specifically top down because you want to capture the landscape around that moment and let I know guys get hung up on like, I don’t want to show that fishing spot, but when you’re in it, you’re in a situation where you’re at the togiak and it’s a once in a lifetime trip. 00;57;11;23 – 00;57;22;03 Speaker 4 Make sure you capture that landscape, get down low so you can capture everything that vastness, that beauty, and most importantly, that fish in you enjoying that moment. 00;57;22;13 – 00;57;36;22 Dave Yeah. And is that eye level is that is there to load you can get on a on a or is it. You know that’s always my struggle. I’m like okay where, where do you start? Where is the angle I want to get I think I don’t have that. I right, I’m not a good I’m not good at it. 00;57;37;04 – 00;57;46;16 Dave So I feel like that’s a big struggle for me is figuring out where to take. Is there something even by eye level you mean at the eye level of the photographer? That eye level. What do you exactly mean there? 00;57;46;25 – 00;58;05;16 Speaker 4 Eye level of the subject of. So like if you Yeah, if you bring, you know, your hands down with the phone or camera on your hand so that way you can capture that background, you know, a little bit of sky and it’s one of those things in that moment, you know, you don’t press that shutter button until you feel confident. 00;58;05;27 – 00;58;12;03 Speaker 4 And that’s another thing is like be confident in that photo. You know, you’re stopping time as soon as you push that button. 00;58;12;08 – 00;58;12;19 Jorden Yeah. 00;58;12;19 – 00;58;30;07 Dave So yeah, I feel like with the phones in the, in our pocket sort of thing, it’s become this, you know, you can just take a hundred shots and pick or even I think I’ve heard some people say they just press a video and then cut photos out of the video. What do you guys is that something like what’s your recommendation or should you just be like, get that exact shot and just take one photo? 00;58;30;16 – 00;58;42;00 Dave Because I feel like the digital thing also is weird because now you got a thousand photos that you never look at, right in all of that. What’s your take on all that? The digital thing. I’m sure I Tom, were you there early when it when it was not digital? 00;58;42;16 – 00;58;44;12 Tom Oh, my gosh. Yes. 00;58;44;12 – 00;58;44;20 Jorden Yeah. 00;58;45;16 – 00;58;48;23 Dave Yeah. You’ve seen it. You’ve seen the whole the whole change for better or worse, right. 00;58;48;23 – 00;59;11;00 Tom Oh, I have. I have. Yes I, you know, so it’s a totally different world and yeah, we’re, we’re probably going down the road that I can spend another hour talking. Just topic obviously. But I think it’s a I think it’s a the right time to to complement and take even more. I love where Jordan was going in fact he he almost stole my my tip my best tip. 00;59;11;09 – 00;59;36;00 Tom It was a great tip but I can take it even further. I think what’s typical for a beginner or novice to do it, whether it’s a take video or a photo or whatever it is, they tend to take it from there. What they’re used to from the perspective that they’re used to. Meaning if I walk up to you, Dave, and we’re having a conversation, we’re probably standing, you know, 3 to 6 are were eye level, eye to eye were having a conversation. 00;59;36;00 – 00;59;50;08 Tom I might say, Look over there and you’re going to turn your hand. You’re gonna look over there, I might say, look down at that, and you might turn your head down at that. That’s the common misconception, I think, in people when they have a camera in their hand, they tend to take that photo or take that video from their normal perspective. 00;59;50;08 – 01;00;30;07 Tom If they’re six foot tall, they’re taking it from six feet up. Looking this way. They’re tilting their head down. They’re tilting their head up, and they’re taking that image. So I think my biggest tip for them is move that camera position, change the position from your eyes. So whether that is down low eye level to a fish out of the water, whether that is up high over the mountain range, looking down with a drone, whether you’re holding something in your hand and you put that camera up within inches of it or you step way back and show that image or show that same subject engulfed in submersed in this giant atmosphere around it to make 01;00;30;07 – 01;00;49;12 Tom it look super tiny. I can take the same item in your hand and make it look giant and forefront of the image boom in your face. Or I can take ten steps back and make it look as if it’s almost disappeared in your hand and everything else around. It is so powerful, right? Just by changing that camera position, I don’t care if it’s a cell phone. 01;00;49;12 – 01;01;23;04 Tom It doesn’t have to be anything big. It’s just change the camera position. This is one thing we say in our classes. We can take something as boring as a fire hydrant the side of the road or a chair sitting in the middle of a blank empty room. And I guarantee you, if we give a cell phone to ten different people and tell them to take only one photo of that chair or that hydrant, and you will get ten very different photos, you should get very different photos, but instead you’ll probably get almost ten of the same. 01;01;23;05 – 01;01;23;16 Tom Oh, you. 01;01;23;16 – 01;01;25;05 Dave Will. You’ll get ten of the same, right? 01;01;25;11 – 01;01;33;24 Tom You know what I’m saying? So yeah, I that you’re trying to find is how can I make that chair the middle of the room look completely different than the other nine people taking this image. 01;01;33;28 – 01;01;34;27 Dave Right. 01;01;35;07 – 01;01;57;15 Tom And then I’ll also you mentioned this, so I’ll, I’ll end with this and say it is very easy to take multiple images with your cell phone nowadays with anything digital. And for that matter, it’s just like click. There’s ten photos, there’s 100 of the same thing. I would challenge yourself, challenge yourself to pick an item in your backyard front yard on the water from the tree stand. 01;01;57;15 – 01;02;12;19 Tom Doesn’t matter where you are, but pick an item and take an hour. Take 10 minutes, whatever it is you have, and take just one photo of that image or of that subject that you are happy with. Don’t take ten and pick one. 01;02;12;19 – 01;02;13;26 Dave Yeah, right. 01;02;13;28 – 01;02;15;00 Tom Only one. 01;02;15;00 – 01;02;15;20 Dave Take one. 01;02;16;06 – 01;02;24;23 Tom Ooh, that looks good. I think. I think that little challenge for yourself will start to change your outlook on how you take photos or video. 01;02;25;03 – 01;02;47;02 Dave Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s the perfect way to leave this one because I feel that’s my struggle is that yeah, when you take ten or 100 photos, it’s just like, okay, I just got a bunch of photos. I don’t know, I might not have time to go through them, but if I take an hour or whatever and I study like, okay, I want to get this exact photo, then you’re thinking about the lighting, you’re thinking about the sun, You’re thinking about like, okay, I got this one photo, and then you take it and then you can learn from it. 01;02;47;02 – 01;02;57;23 Dave You can really analyze and be like, okay, well, did it do what I want it to do? Right? Because you guys are probably doing it. This is cool. So it gets you thinking more than just mass photo shots just taken one. That’s awesome. 01;02;58;02 – 01;03;04;22 Tom That’s right. And then then what? What that does is it prepares you for those moments when you have to act very fast and take the best photo. 01;03;05;09 – 01;03;05;22 Jorden You know. 01;03;06;03 – 01;03;11;24 Tom That’s when you get to that point. You’ll say, well, I’m glad I did all these exercises because they helped train me to get me to that point. 01;03;11;24 – 01;03;29;05 Dave So yeah, yeah, I gotcha. How do you guys do one more here? Because this one comes up a lot and I think about it from you mentioned it like the killing of animals and, you know, all this stuff in fish. You hear about different things about fish. You got to keep them wet. They can’t come out of our what you guys should take, especially with social media in the filming. 01;03;29;05 – 01;03;50;04 Dave Do you guys touch on that where because sometimes you hear and then you got politics involved in stuff and all this crazy stuff. Is that something you guys you get into and what would be your recommendation? You know, it seems like it’s a struggle for all of us, but what would be your feedback on that? Because I know just like hunting wise, I don’t really I don’t enjoy watching necessarily animals get killed. 01;03;50;12 – 01;04;05;00 Dave You know, I love the hunting. I’m a hunter, actually, you know, and I’ve killed lots of animals and all that stuff. But when I watched that video for some reason, I’m not it’s not like my thing. I love the hunts. And fishing wise, it’s almost the same where it’s like, you know, I’ve killed tons of fish, lots and lots of fish. 01;04;05;00 – 01;04;19;16 Dave But I feel like for me, I love just seeing more the process of getting to that fish. And so, yeah, I know that’s kind of a loaded question. We’re here, but, you know, maybe either you guys, what’s your take on that? How should we be thinking about all this? 01;04;20;06 – 01;04;25;25 Tom I mean, respect the animal. Go ahead, Jordan. I could go on in this, too. Jordan, you have something that you want to. 01;04;26;10 – 01;04;48;02 Speaker 4 Yeah. In time, you’ll know where I’m going to go with this. But Gustav and I, we’ve, you know, at times have struggled with this question that you’re asking. And I always go to Tom. We are storytellers first before anything else. Like that’s like I want to tell a deep, heartfelt story, right? That’s my main objective. 01;04;48;10 – 01;04;54;27 Dave And sometimes that story might include seeing the animal shot or killed right there. That could be part of the story sometimes. 01;04;54;27 – 01;05;08;11 Speaker 4 Yeah, but if we can tell a powerful story before that moment, to me, the kill shot isn’t what I’m after. I’m after the story I’m after. How can we tell this to the best of our ability? 01;05;08;23 – 01;05;26;06 Tom And I think you can do that without. See, this is it is a very touchy subject, but I think there are cases when you can do that and not even show the kill shot. Now, is that by and large, the demand of what people want to watch in the hunting, it is not they want an animal. They want to see the kill shot, but you can do it. 01;05;26;10 – 01;05;44;26 Tom I think ultimately what it comes down to is because hunting and hunters and fishermen even, Right. We’re in the like it or not, we are in the public eye for how we treat that situation or how we. So I think ultimately it’s about respect. I’m not saying bow down to those and respect those that are knocking us down. 01;05;44;26 – 01;06;00;15 Tom I’m saying have respect for the the hunting heritage in the animal that you’re pursuing. And one of the ways I teach to do that in our classes is like, hey, when it comes down to taking a photo of you with that animal, make sure that animal is kind of cleaned up and represent all. 01;06;00;15 – 01;06;00;26 Dave Right. 01;06;01;00 – 01;06;30;21 Tom And are right even down to the video end of it. We’re not our style. We don’t do our post hunt interviews over the animal. We’re like, Man, that was such a good right? We don’t even do that. We end with a nice piece of celebratory music where it’s kind of a happy, you know, energetic. We may show that animal with certain really cool shots where it’s backlit and, you know, it’s just a beautiful scene and it’s kind of more serene and happy and respectful, yet still celebratory. 01;06;30;21 – 01;06;43;00 Tom Right. But we’ve we’ve overall presented that moment as from a little bit more of a higher end product to where go ahead world what can you say to us now. You know. 01;06;43;19 – 01;06;46;07 Dave Right Yeah it’s awesome Yeah it’s cool. 01;06;46;19 – 01;06;48;07 Tom And that’s photo or video really. 01;06;48;10 – 01;07;07;01 Dave Yeah. Yeah. And then you mix in. Yeah. And we won’t even go into all the social media because that’s like a whole nother thing out there. But maybe we’ll leave that for the next conversation or for your video production. We could talk about that. So guys, well, we’ll just leave us with again where people find you. Maybe Jordan, remind us again where we can track you down if we want to follow you. 01;07;07;14 – 01;07;24;20 Speaker 4 Yeah, absolutely. So a story I work for is a Sable River Outfitters, and then also personal pages is Instagram at Souza. It’s associated w, it’s Z, and then Facebook is Souza Works Media. 01;07;25;01 – 01;07;26;10 Dave Cool. And how about you, Tom? 01;07;26;19 – 01;07;55;20 Tom Yup. So personal pages. Tom Petri pet are why I am out of Ohio and the business film The Hunt so that’s film the hunt dot com there you’ll if you send a message to that website it will get to me personally film the hunt at gmail.com is a direct email but yeah and any social platforms if you search film the hunt you are going to find it across Instagram, Facebook, Tik tok, etc. So yeah. 01;07;55;29 – 01;08;11;03 Dave Awesome guys. Well I think we’ll leave it there and appreciate all the all the knowledge and the tips today and just the storytelling. I feel like this is going to get us fired up. I can’t wait to watch the movie, which I haven’t seen yet, so we’re going to put that in the show notes. All the links we talked about today and the until we see you on the on the next one. 01;08;11;03 – 01;08;11;19 Dave Thanks again. 01;08;11;28 – 01;08;13;02 Tom Yeah. Appreciate you, Dave. 01;08;13;11 – 01;08;15;27 Speaker 4 Thanks, Dave. 01;08;15;27 – 01;08;38;09 Dave If you love that one, you want check in with Tom and Jordan. Please do that. Now let them know you heard this podcast. Also, if you’re interested in hearing more about Togiak River Lodge, you can actually go to Wet place swing dot com slash Togiak podcast and you can hear some of the back episodes from episodes we’ve done at Togiak that’s wet fly swing dot com slash Togiak Todd Guy a K podcast. 01;08;38;23 – 01;09;08;10 Dave Check it out right now and you can hear some of the great episodes we’ve had with some of their awesome spec guides and some stories up there. Hope this one hit resonated with you today. If you want to get access and learn more about why Swing Pro our community, where we’re doing some great stuff around the country where fly swing dot com slash pro up there, we’ll let you know when we open doors back up for the next round the next cohort of why swing pro and I thank you again for stopping in today I hope you’re having a great afternoon if it’s evening hope it’s an amazing evening and if it’s morning enjoy the 01;09;08;10 – 01;09;11;00 Dave day and we will see you and talk to you on the next episode. 01;09;11;20 – 01;09;14;28 Jorden Thanks for listening to the wet fly, swing, fly fishing show. 01;09;15;04 – 01;09;15;09 Tom For. 01;09;15;09 – 01;09;27;05 Jorden Notes and links from this episode. Visit Wet Fly, Swing, Dotcom.