972 | Outdoor Gear Design with McCormick Snow: Rooftop Tents, Trout Spey, and Colorado Fly Fishing

00:00:00 Dave: We spent a lot of time talking about which gear to buy, but not as much time talking about why that gear was designed in the first place. Today we’re looking at outdoor gear from the other side, how products get designed, what actually makes something work in the field, and how a background in design can change the way you think about gear you carry on the river. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast, where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. McCormick snow is here today. He is going to get into his background in outdoor and product design development. We’re going to find out about some of the prototypes he worked on in the fly fishing space, and how he came into intrepid camp gear. We’re going to find out about his fly fishing background and how he uses maps to find overlooked trout streams, including some surprisingly nearby access points, where to find brown trout, rainbows and brook trout as he works his way through Colorado’s high elevation streams. We’re only going to get into a little bit on Trout Spey. We got a good conversation on Spey. McCormick’s getting into that as well. So we’re going to share that. One of his favorite rods he’s using right now. And we’re going to get his a little bit on his spade journey. We’re going to dig into that as we go here. And and we’re going to talk about a recent trip that both of us were on separately using similar gear. So you can find McCormick at intrepid Camp, gear dot com and, uh, and on Instagram as well. Here you go. McCormick snow, how are you doing? McCormick. 00:01:31 McCormick: I’m doing well. Dave, how are you? 00:01:33 Dave: Great, great. Is, uh, good to have you on the show here. We are going to talk, uh, gear, which I always love talking about. We’re going to talk fly fishing. We’re probably going to get into some gear there. We’re also going to talk about intrepid camp gear, uh, one of the best rooftop tents and cargo boxes and stuff. We’re going to talk about that. You work with intrepid, you also have a fly fishing. You do some fly fishing as well. So we’re going to get into all this today. And your background on design is pretty interesting, I think, because I think that’s obviously with any product is important. So we’re going to talk about your background there. Um, but before we get into it, just maybe take us. I know you’re new at intrepid. Have you been fly fishing longer or been doing more of the gear design longer? 00:02:09 McCormick: Yeah. So I’ve been fly fishing and doing gear design about the same. I got into both when I was in college. I went to college at Utah State University and I studied outdoor product design and development there. Um, and then when I graduated, I got a job with intrepid and moved out to Colorado. And, you know, fishing is just, you know, the last five years has been just an obsession. And then, uh, the gear design has kind of just been kind of the chosen career path that keeps me close to the things I love to do. So I’m one of those people where if I don’t genuinely love what I’m doing, it’s really hard for me to focus and do it well. So working with product and working with gear is something that, you know, keeps me motivated and keeps me happy. 00:02:47 Dave: Nice. Is there a big difference between, uh, being in Utah and what town is Utah State in. 00:02:53 McCormick: Utah State in Logan, it’s about an hour and a half north of Salt Lake. 00:02:56 Dave: Yeah, that’s right. it’s in Logan. So, um, is there a big difference between Logan and where you’re at in Colorado? 00:03:02 McCormick: Honestly, it’s very similar. When my wife and I moved out here, we we live in a place called Longmont in Colorado, which is about twenty minutes from Boulder. And it’s very similar vibes to Logan, kind of a smaller town. The rivers are a little different out here, though. It’s it’s definitely more small creek fishing out here, especially around Boulder, you know, three and four water pretty much exclusively. And then and Logan, you know, you get, you can get into some bigger fish, but, uh. 00:03:28 Dave: Right. What’s the bigger water near Logan? 00:03:30 McCormick: Well, there’s the Logan River that runs right through town and up Logan Canyon. There’s another river that’s about the same size called the Blacksmith Fork. And then there’s the bear River, which is about an hour away, which is a pretty productive brown trout fishery. And smallmouth bass, actually, in the summertime gets really productive. 00:03:48 Dave: Oh, nice. Nice. 00:03:49 McCormick: And then, uh, that’s probably the biggest water within like a day’s drive. But then just two hours away, you know, the Henrys fork is right there. 00:03:55 Dave: Oh yeah. 00:03:56 McCormick: In Rexburg. And then if you head south, you have the Provo. It’s kind of smack in the middle of all these really awesome rivers. 00:04:02 Dave: Yeah, yeah it is. It’s yeah, it’s the West, right. I mean, there’s, it’s pretty hard to find. Uh, seems like everywhere you look out west, there’s a good, you know, whatever state you’re in, you can find some good water, right? 00:04:11 McCormick: Yeah. Very true, very true. 00:04:13 Dave: Cool. Well, I wanted to hear about intrepid because, you know, we’ve talked to Sloan previously, and. And you guys have some good stuff. You see these rooftop tents, you know, pretty much. I mean, all over the place, at least where I’m at. You know, you see them everywhere. They must be popping up. I mean, Colorado must be must be the same or even more. Right. Do you see a lot lots of different rooftop tents around there. 00:04:34 McCormick: Oh, yeah. Yeah, there’s a lot of rooftop tents. I think it’s just, you know, Colorado owns this place. Places with, uh, incredible access to the outdoors. So people utilize rooftop tents to get out just on the weekends. They don’t have to really stress about, you know, packing up the car. They can just throw a bag in the car and go, you know. 00:04:52 Dave: Yeah, yeah. I was talking to somebody recently on the podcast and we got into talking about camping and stuff. And I think actually it was, um, I think it was a Colorado guide actually, I think it was. Yeah, I think it was a Colorado guide. And he was talking about, I asked him, he was talking about how he loves camping. He was fishing the um, the South Platte. Right. Which is, I’m not sure how far that is from you. Right. South Platte down there. And he’s a guide on the South Platte. And, you know, we got into camping. He’s like, oh, yeah, man, I sleep in my rooftop tent. It’s it’s awesome. It’s nice to be able to pop it up. And so again, that’s why it’s cool, right? You’re out there on a day, maybe you’re fishing all day. And instead of having to find a perfect spot and throw a tent up, you can just really literally park on the side of the road if you wanted to and pop it up. Do you find that people are, are using these things for all sorts of different types of activities and different places? 00:05:37 McCormick: Oh yeah. It’s, it’s actually pretty incredible to see how people get creative with them for me. And, you know, there’s a in Colorado, there’s a lot of fly anglers, so a lot of people use them for that same purpose, right? Like they go out fishing, they want to fish all day. They don’t have to worry about setting up camp at night. You just pitch your tent on the side of the road and you’re good to go. But we have people use them all winter for skiing that just ski bum in parking lots where people do that. Um, we have a lot of hunters that use them in the fall. They’re just a great addition. If you love recreating outdoors and want to maximize your time doing the things you love, there’s no better option, right? It just takes one of the most stressful parts about being outside and makes it so easy. 00:06:17 Dave: Yeah. Makes it easy. And, and it’s cool too, because it’s, it’s up high, right? It’s on the roof. So you get a whole, a whole different perspective. I mean, I don’t really worry about wildlife too much, but I think this guide actually that we had on was talking about cougars in the area and stuff like that, you know, but I don’t worry about that too much because I think as long as you. Well, actually, Sloane, when he was on, he had a little story because I think he left some food in the cooler or something. And there was a bear around. So you do have that to think about. But as long as you’re doing good food storage, you know, I don’t think it’s anything to worry about. What do you think is the the biggest thing that intrepid does? Maybe how do they stand out? Because different brands out there for sure. 00:06:51 McCormick: Yeah. During during Covid especially, there was a ton of brands that popped up. Not all of them are around, unfortunately. Still. What intrepid does best is we minimize or we maximize space while minimizing the footprint of the tent. Right. So we give you as much usable space as possible on the roof of your car or on the bed of your truck while maximizing the space inside. Um, I’m not sure if your listeners will be able to see the tent. 00:07:17 Dave: Yeah. We can. Yeah. Where would be a good place right now to go look at these things if we wanted to just take a look at them online. 00:07:23 McCormick: Best place right now is probably Instagram or just our website, intrepidmag dot com. Okay. We have all the photos and product walkthroughs and stuff available for you guys. Perfect. But kind of the thing we do best is our lid design on the tent has a hinge about, you know, two thirds of the way in. So when you fold up the tent, it actually gives you about forty percent more space inside while having the same footprint as other tents. It makes, I like to say it makes the tent feel not just like a place for sleeping, but actually like part of your setup, right? A lot of these tents just don’t have the space to be utilized if it’s rainy or if it’s crummy weather or, you know, if you just need a place to sit and do some work. But our tent really feels like a place you can actually just sit and hang out, right? 00:08:07 Dave: Yeah, there’s plenty of head room and you could actually sit up in there and hang out. The other thing you notice with some of these rooftop deals is that you see them around and they’re, some of them are gigantic. Like when they’re folded down, you know, they look like they’ve got a whole nother. It’s not minimized. It’s not minimal. Right. But I think intrepid really that’s what you’re talking about by minimizing it. It packs down pretty small and pretty tight, right? 00:08:28 McCormick: Yeah. Most definitely. Yeah. We’re when we’re fully collapsed, we’re only seven inches tall. So, um, doesn’t add a ton to the roof of your car, depending on the rack on the rack you have. But it really allows you to, you know, it’s a very non-invasive way to integrate rooftop tents rather than having some big, you know, four foot by two foot cube on the roof of your car. 00:08:47 Dave: Yeah. 00:08:49 McCormick: Just creates a ton of drag and is noisy and kind of a pain to set up, so. 00:08:53 Dave: Yep. That’s right. Do you have like your rooftop tent? Do you have one that you really love or I’m looking at the geo two point five Pro. 00:09:01 McCormick: Yeah. So the two point five pros are kind of most well-rounded option. It just, it gives you like you can fit it on pretty much any car depending on the roof, on the roof rack. And it just gives you a ton of space. When I travel for work, that’s what I use. Um, I usually do about, you know, forty percent of my time in hotels where I need to. And then I just camp the rest of the time. But probably my favorite product is actually our geo two point oh. It just kind of is shrunk down just a little bit more than the two point five. Doesn’t have as many of the creature comforts, but it’s just the perfect size for, you know, me and my wife or you know, me and some dogs or, you know, just whoever you have, but it’s just a little bit more convenient in terms of sizing. 00:09:44 Dave: Yep. Yeah. Two point oh. Yeah. I’m looking at it now. It’s got, uh, there’s a picture of somebody just sitting in it and it looks like there’s there in it and it looks like there’s maybe, I don’t know, another, uh, few feet at least of headroom above them. Is that a part of the bonus here? Is that you got lots of room in there? 00:10:02 McCormick: Yeah, absolutely. Right. Like I’m not very tall. I’m only like five, nine, but I can hunch over and stand up in one of our tents. 00:10:09 Dave: Oh, wow. 00:10:10 McCormick: Um, which is pretty rare for rooftop tents. Usually you don’t get that much headroom. 00:10:14 Dave: Yep. Right. When you come into this with your design in background, maybe you could start there. Maybe before we get into a little bit, because I want to talk about your experience, but I know you have some design. Was it working with some fly fishing gear or talk about that? What have you, uh, you know, what was your degree in and then how did it position you for this, what you’re doing now? 00:10:33 McCormick: Yeah. So my degree was in outdoor product design and development with an emphasis in product line management. Utah State’s the only, uh, one of the only degrees that has, or one of the only schools that offers that degree. But, uh, it allowed me to when I was looking for a job, you know, I’m not I don’t consider myself a full designer. You know, my emphasis was more the business side of the outdoor industry. But I, you know, designing gear and, you know, sewing and doing all of that stuff is still very much a passion hobby of mine. It gave me a unique perspective, right? When I was looking for a job out of college, it was like gave me a new lens to look at these companies like, okay, what’s a product that I can actually like get behind from a design perspective? That’s, I know is a step above everything else on the market. And that’s kind of what drew me to intrepid, right, is like looking at it from a design perspective. It just, it took such an analytical approach to rooftop tents and really sought out the big flaws that a lot of these companies were having and minimized those. And so it allows me as a sales guy, right? I can confidently go into a pitch meeting and I know our product is a step above, you know. And so having that confidence in our product is, is really nice. And then some of the solutions we have for some of those problems are just so elegant. Like who would have thought? Just like adding a simple hinge would create such a big difference, you know? 00:11:53 Dave: Yeah. And the hinges on the because you have the roof, maybe describe that how the hinge was such a game changer where that is. 00:12:01 McCormick: Yeah. So that’s a patented design that we have. It’s about two thirds along the roof of a roof of the tent. There is a hinge that breaks at about a. I can’t really tell the angle, but it. It basically allows you to it turns the lid into a roof and not just like this panel that you have to wrestle down every time. 00:12:23 Dave: Oh, right. So so the actual. Yeah, the lid, the hard piece that goes on and when it’s packed down covers, it is actually half of the roof. It’s protecting it on the front side. Yeah. 00:12:33 McCormick: Yes. Exactly. Right. Yeah. That was much a much better way to say that that yeah. 00:12:38 Dave: That’s it. So it’s got protected. So that’s always the thing. I think people that don’t know you think, okay, how is this thing going to do in a windstorm? You know, is this thing pretty bulletproof. You know, if you do, you have to worry about any of the conditions out there. 00:12:50 McCormick: Oh, yeah. Like, uh, I took it on a road trip for work. I was in Seattle for three days, and, uh, it rained two of the three nights. Like, you know how it is in Seattle. It rains. And, uh, I was bone dry, completely safe. You know, there was, uh, winds and it was pretty stormy. And it was, it was very comfortable inside, you know, I’m sure if you had like for three or four feet of snow on top, you might have some collapsing issues. Sure. But, uh, if you’re camping in that weather, more power to you, you know? That’s right. You got some, you got some other priorities you got to figure out. 00:13:23 Dave: Right, right. Exactly. Yeah, that’d be pretty cool to go to a ski, you know, into the parking lot and see a bunch of people at the rooftop tents in a snowstorm. Right. That’d be pretty awesome. Oh, yeah. So, okay, so there’s basically that in your background. So you’re, uh, in intrepid now as you’re in there, you mentioned a couple of the big flaws that you see in other, um, products or brands out there. What are some of those things that intrepid fix? I guess the hinge is one of them. What? How did the hinge fix? What? What problem did that fix? 00:13:49 McCormick: So with clamshell style tents right. So meaning they just open up like a wedge. The biggest problem is usable space in traditional wedge style tents. You have one really good pro is that it’s really easy to set up. But with it being so easy to set up, you know, you your feet are jammed into a tiny little wedge, you know, and I’m not that tall. And when I’ve slept in tents like that, it’s like I have to curl my legs because it’s just there’s just not the space. Right? We kind of take the best of both worlds and giving you, you know, plenty of headroom, um, with the hinge design, but also the ease of setup as a wedge style where you can just pop it right up in a parking lot and it’s nice and easy. 00:14:31 Dave: Yeah. It’s so easy. It’s. So what’s it take to pop up your, the two point oh how long? 00:14:36 McCormick: If I’m in a big hurry, uh, I can do it in 30s if I’m taking my leisurely. If I’m taking my leisurely time. It’s about a minute, right? 00:14:46 Dave: So it’s. Yeah. It’s quick. 00:14:47 McCormick: It’s very quick. Right. Getting off the road. It’s it’s nice. Like if you get off the road late and it’s, you know, eleven o’clock, uh, you’re in the middle of nowhere in Montana and you just need to find a place to sleep. Pull off to the side of the road, pop it up and get a good night’s rest. 00:15:01 Dave: That’s it. What if you do the ultimate blunder? And I imagine this is hard to do. But you forget to pop it down and you just drive away with it popped up. Has anybody ever done that? 00:15:12 McCormick: I’m sure someone has done that. I have never done that. I imagine you’d feel it pretty quickly. You know. 00:15:20 Dave: It’d be like. 00:15:21 McCormick: You’d feel some resistance there. Um, I have to ask Sloan, though. I’m sure he has some stories of people doing stuff like that. 00:15:27 Dave: We’ll have to hit him up on some some stories there. Yeah. 00:15:30 McCormick: Oh, yeah. Where? I’ve only been with the company for a couple of months. You know, write those stories for me are few and far between, but, uh. 00:15:35 Dave: Yeah, totally. Well, um, this is a good start, I think. I wanted to touch base on that. We’ll follow up, you know, as we go a little more on some of the product line and stuff, but but tell me about your fishing. I think that’s another interesting part, right? I think you bring, you know, to intrepid, you got the background in fly fishing, obviously the love. What is it for you? What are you most interested in out there? You love the small stuff, the bigger streams. What are you doing? 00:15:59 McCormick: Uh, honestly, it’s kind of the the next the next thing is my favorite thing, right? So I have my love for small streams around here. That’s I get a little sick of those just because there’s so much that that that’s kind of like if I’m going out for a day of fishing, it’s going to be something that’s, you know, twenty feet or narrower. The Denver, South Platte is nice and close is close enough where I could do it in a day, but it’s kind of a jaunt in Utah. I like fishing the big rivers like the Provo. I love the green, but I think my favorite are small streams and I’ve really been lately. Every chance I get. I’ve been really into trout spey and swinging flies. 00:16:35 Dave: Nice. 00:16:35 McCormick: If I lived out where you were, I’d probably be doing that a lot more. But, uh, trout has kind of been my thing, and those opportunities are few and far between. 00:16:42 Dave: Yeah, yeah. Where would you go in Colorado for? Is there anything in Colorado? Could you swing the the South Platte? 00:16:48 McCormick: You could swing the South Platte. I think you might piss off some of those drift boats coming through. 00:16:53 Dave: Really? Yeah. 00:16:54 McCormick: Just because the South Platte is such a busy river. I think a better option might be the Gunnison. I talked to a guy out in Oregon who is actually from Colorado, and he said he used to go swing on the Gunnison a lot. You could do it on the Roaring Fork in some places, and then the North Platte as well. The North Platte would be a great option. 00:17:11 Dave: And North Platte. Okay. And what’s your, uh, set up point for Spey or using like a four weight? 00:17:16 McCormick: Yeah, I’m using an eleven and a half foot for weight with an integrated line. You know, I just graduated college, so I’m on a bit of a budget. Um, I love the Redington Trout Spey field kit. I know it’s kind of a it gets a bad rap. 00:17:28 Dave: No, I think that’s awesome. It’s funny you say that because I was just up, uh, at a lodge in northern Saskatchewan. So we were at the Scott Lake Lodge and it’s known for kind of trophy Pike, Lake trout and grayling. And so, so yeah, it was pretty awesome. I caught all trophies for me and really trophies probably anywhere but the grayling were. Yeah, I caught one that was over twenty inches. Right. But the cool thing was, is we were at this spot where we were swinging flies through this riffle. It was a river between these two lakes and, and we had single hand rods, but they had the spey rod. I was like, all right, I might as well use the spey rod. And man, I was casting that thing out there and it was just like a dream. And we got to a spot for about forty five minutes. It was every cast I had Grayling on. 00:18:10 McCormick: Oh, that’s the best, right? 00:18:12 Dave: But the greatest thing was with the rod. I was like, Holy cow, this rod is sweet. So again, I’m not a super spey master, but I know when rod feels good. So I feel like Reddington, you know, I mean, they always produce. They’ve produced good gear for years, right? You know, waders, all sorts of stuff. So I’m not surprised, you know what I mean? But it sounds like you’ve also been loving the Reddington. 00:18:30 McCormick: Yeah, honestly, for me, I like I’ve thought about upgrading, but Reddington, it just does me. Does me. Right. And I like you. I’m not a Spey master. I’m like, I’m to the point where, you know, one in five cast, I’m like, man, that was amazing. And then everything else, I’m just like, that was rough. 00:18:47 Dave: That’s right. 00:18:48 McCormick: But Reddington, they’re very forgiving for me. You know, when I’m just learning the motions, you know, I think it’s a great option. 00:18:53 Dave: Yeah. That’s cool. Well, so you got Spain, your repertoire. So that’s something you’re working on. What? You mentioned the small stream. So it sounds like you’ve done a little bit of that up there. Are these. Yeah. You know, like hiking up into the mountains with your like three weight sort of thing for weight going for it for sure. 00:19:09 McCormick: The nice thing about Colorado is that there is a lot of access just roadside, right? So you can find with a little determination and with the map, you can find pretty much untouched streams roadside if you know where to look, which is really nice for me. Like I like technical fisheries as much as the next guy, but sometimes you just want to go out and catch twenty brook trout in a day and not have to make too much of a too much of a sweat. And so for Colorado, it’s a great option. You know, around here, a big fish on, say, Boulder Creek, or where I live in the. On the Saint Vrain a big fish would be twelve inches. You know, that would be like, you’re feeling really good about yourself. You’re catching something over twelve inches. 00:19:50 Dave: Right? And are these brook trout or a mix of species? 00:19:52 McCormick: The higher up you get, you’re getting into some brook trout. You have to go pretty high up to get into the brookies. Um, mainly brown trout and rainbows. I think you have to get pretty high up to catch cutthroat around here. I’ve caught a couple, but, you know, you gotta you gotta really work for him. 00:20:08 Dave: Right? That’s cool though. So. So what you’re saying is you could just pretty much kind of, you know, blue line or whatever, just get on the map, get to a spot and park off the road and just start hiking, find a stream. And it’s pretty easy to get away. And even right off the road, you don’t have to go too far. 00:20:22 McCormick: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You don’t have to go too far to find really good fishing. 00:20:27 Dave: So yeah, so we’ve covered a little bit, just kind of high level on your, you know, fishing. I mean, what as you look out, it sounds like Spey is something you’re interested in. I mean intrepid, you know, you guys are. I know you got a lot out west. You’re in Colorado, obviously. Do you do some traveling around the country, like towards the East and doing the efficient, or do you plan on doing efficient? Have you done anything out there? 00:20:49 McCormick: Uh, I do plan on it right now with my job. Um, I’m our B2B sales guy. So I go travel to all of our dealers and we’ve been really focused out west just because there’s a lot more of a market for us out here. But you know, out east, overlanding and off roading in general is growing like crazy. There’s a ton of places popping up in like random places like Arkansas. There’s a really big overlanding community. Overlanding is kind of like fly fishing, where, you know, you have a lot of people that are very passionate about it, and they find each other and they just kind of make these little groups. And even in like the most obscure places like Arkansas, you know. 00:21:25 Dave: That’s cool. Well, Arkansas and that’s the thing about it, you know, in fly fishing, you know, it’s changed a lot, you know, in the last twenty years. But, you know, it’s Arkansas to me for fly fishing at least is, you know, the white River, depending on where you’re in Arkansas, you know, like. Right. Amazing. Right. And so, but I feel like every state, you know, that guide I was talking to that lives in Colorado, grew up in Kansas. You know, he was talking about the fishing in Kansas, right. So I feel like every state has a little bit of fly fishing. I’m sure, I’m sure probably has a little bit of the camping too, right. That sort of thing. 00:21:58 McCormick: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I think, you know, with any outdoor pursuits, you’re going to be able to anywhere you go, you can find it if you try hard enough. Right? I remember what I was going to say. I remember, uh, another similarity between overlanding and fly fishing is gear. Fly fishermen love to collect gear and so do overlanders. 00:22:16 Dave: Oh they do. So what’s the overlander? Because the gear in overlanding I pictured again, I’m not in that space, but I picture the obviously the vehicle. Right. You see these vehicles that are just decked out. So is the gear, everything tied to the vehicle and the camping and all that stuff. 00:22:30 McCormick: Oh yeah. Yeah. So with in terms of gear, like, you know, you have your tent, you have obviously your car and all of the modifications that they make to that. I don’t consider myself a super big car guy, but, you know, people are doing these, you know, twenty or thirty thousand dollars builds where they do new suspension at a rack, add lights, add locker, like they do all of this stuff. And, you know, to the layman, it might not seem like a big deal. It’s kind of like similar to if someone who doesn’t fly fish was asking the difference between fluoro and mono. It’s like people that know they’re like, okay, there’s a huge difference. 00:23:07 Dave: But that’s a good point. 00:23:09 McCormick: From the outside looking in, you’re like, man, these guys are weird. 00:23:12 Dave: That’s a good point. Well, tell me this on the overlanding, because this and you might not know the question, the answer to this, but you know, the different levels. Like that’s a good analogy. You know, fluoro to mono somebody new to fly fishing won’t know that. Right. That’ll be, it won’t matter because really just fly learning to cast is better with with the overlanding, you know. The difference is could somebody just are you an overlander? You know what makes you an overlander, right? That’s the question, right? It’s kind of like, I kind of know what makes you fly angler. You kind of have this rod and you write the basic stuff. Yeah. Overlanding. Is there a basic thing you need to kind of call yourself an overlander? 00:23:46 McCormick: You know, I think overlanding is taking such a broad definition these days. I think it’s more of a state of mind, right? If you’re willing to drive your car into places, you probably shouldn’t, right? To get away from people and to get access to nature. You’re an overlander, right? Whether that’s, you know, you have your Honda Civic that you’re pushing to its absolute limit. Yeah. Or right. You have like a one hundred thousand dollars Toyota Tacoma build, you know? 00:24:11 Dave: Totally. 00:24:12 McCormick: It’s the same attitude, right? 00:24:13 Dave: Yeah. It is. That’s no, that’s a great point because I remember those days when I had the oh, whatever the car was, I used to have this, this is probably this is before your time, I’m sure. But there used to be this, this Honda CRV or was it CRX? No, it was a Honda CRX. 00:24:26 McCormick: Okay. 00:24:26 Dave: They had this little Honda CRX back and this was like a nineteen eighty five, you know, when I got it. But, you know, but I drove this thing after my brother had it for a while and stuff, and it was like a two seat car, like a little. We should put a thing for the younger for folks that haven’t seen it, but the Honda CRX and man, I put a rack on that thing. I think I had a bike on it, right? A bike rack on top. But I stuffed that thing with all my fishing gear. I remember one trip we just drove over to Eastern Oregon and, you know, I drove the crap out of that car, but, you know, and even had it in snow and all sorts just to get to these places. So I guess in some ways, right, that you could be consider yourself an overlander if you’re going for it, right? Even if. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. 00:25:04 McCormick: Absolutely. Yeah. If you’re, if you’ve got the spirit to, you know, do things you probably shouldn’t do with your vehicle, then you’re doing great. 00:25:12 Dave: That’s cool. So what I’m realizing right now, this is cool because I’m realizing that I’m actually a overlander because you are. I do this all the time now. You know, I took now I have two kids, you know, two little kids and a family. And I’ll tell you what the best places that we go to are when we’re driving up a gravel road, you know, going some place. And instead of going to the campground, we drive up the gravel road and we turn left into the grass and we find a high point and we just camp there and throw the stuff out, right. Those are always the best. So that’s overlanding. There you go. 00:25:39 McCormick: Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And you know, our whole thing is making that easier, right? So rather than having to find, you know, a nice level patch of dirt to pitch your tent on, once you get off road, you can just pop it up on the top of your car. 00:25:53 Dave: Yeah. You can pop it up and just go for it, man. So that’s, is that the, you know, intrepid. I’m not sure what the tagline you know, I know you guys have multiple things you’re focused on because you have the gearbox and stuff. But yeah. Is there one line? Is that what it is making it easier for people to get out and do this stuff? 00:26:08 McCormick: I would say so. I think, you know, making these, making it more accessible and then just giving people the best tool for the job, right? Allowing people to do really, it’s all about giving people the freedom to do what they want to do, right? So if someone comes to me and says, hey, I want to use your tent once a year, and I’ll probably take it on and off my car. I might say, you know, maybe a rooftop tent isn’t the best investment for you if you really want to. Sure. But you know, if you’re the person who’s going to be camping, you know, once a week or once, like a couple times a month, it’s a great option. 00:26:42 Dave: Yeah. So that’s what it is. Yeah. If you’re gonna put the investment in, you definitely are most people pretty much leaving this thing on. It’s pretty much all the time. It’s on their car. 00:26:51 McCormick: Yeah. More or less. It’s just, you know, you can take it on and off. It is definitely a two person job to do that. Two or three people, depending on which model you get. And it just is more of a hassle than it’s worth. But we do have, believe it or not, people do. Like we have our geo solo, which is our one person tent, and we have people asking about that all the time about, you know, can I just take it on and off my car whenever I want? And I say, you know, sure, if you really want to, but it weighs one hundred and twenty pounds. So if that’s your prerogative, go for it. I’m not one to tell people how to use their gear, but no. 00:27:25 Dave: One hundred and twenty is, uh, I mean, it’s heavy. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, I’m guessing the, you know, the two point oh ways. I’m guessing that way is a few hundred pounds or something like that. 00:27:34 McCormick: Yeah, the two point zero is, uh, one hundred and fifty. Oh, wow. And then yeah, so all of our tents are under two hundred pounds, which is really nice. So you can do it with just, you know, you and a couple buddies hoisting on and off. But really, I think it’s, I think a rooftop tents is kind of similar to rod vaults, you know, like most people that have rod vaults, you know, they, they use them and they’re great. But a lot of the reason why people like rod Vaults from the top of their car is because it tells people that they’re a fly fisherman, right? Yeah. Which is there’s nothing wrong with that. Like, I think that’s awesome. And I think tents, rooftop tents are kind of a similar deal where it’s, you know, it allows you to have some pride in the things you love to do and having it as like, be a status symbol for you as like, hey, I’m an outdoorsman. I love to camp. 00:28:18 Dave: Right? 00:28:18 McCormick: This is my rig, you know? 00:28:20 Dave: Yeah. 00:28:20 McCormick: So I think people are more inclined to leave it on there just for that reason as well. 00:28:24 Dave: Yeah. That’s true. Yeah. I guess stickers are kind of the same way, right? When you see stickers on a car, I tend to not put stickers on just because I don’t like to let people know I’ve got a bunch of gear, you know, in the car. You know, I’m driving around the city. 00:28:38 McCormick: That’s a good call. I didn’t even think about that. 00:28:39 Dave: You know what I mean? I don’t even know if that makes a difference, but, you know, I kind of feel like that. But but yeah, I think stickers are. Yeah, you got a brain you love. You know, maybe it’s lamps and reels or maybe it’s Orvis or, you know, whatever it is, you know, Rio, you know, you put sticker on, right? It’s great. You’re like, okay, here it is. And the rooftop tent or the, the rod vault or whatever shows that, you know? Yeah, I think that does make, you know, I know we were on this trip to the Missouri. Um, and we were fishing and we had the guide, uh, Warren with on to Mark Lodge. He was saying he had, uh, he had one of those rod vaults on top and he basically said, I think it was one of the ones I think he could put four rods or maybe he had double, I can’t remember, but he was like, man, once you get these, you’re not going without them. And he’s a guide. So it’s a little bit different, right? Because as a guide, you want your things to be rigged up, you pull them out, you’re ready to go every day. He’s doing it every day. Right. So that makes it’s probably a little different with a normal person because how many times are you fishing per week? Right? 00:29:36 McCormick: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I, I agree with you. I have a, I have a buddy around here, drew, he’s, he’s a guide and, uh, he has a rod and he’s like, you know, if I had a car that I could just pass my rods through, I probably wouldn’t. But, you know, I think it’s awesome. As someone who doesn’t have one, I wish I had one. 00:29:53 Dave: Yeah, no, I, and I have one and it’s something that I need to, uh, you know, I kind of take it off and on for that, you know, that same reason we’re talking about. But the one thing I’ve been doing this is always a good shout out. You know, the casting instruction, I never really had a casting instructor or took a lesson even. But I’ve been doing more, you know, mainly because of the podcast and it’s been really helpful to practicing. So I feel like having the rod rigged up. So even if you’re not fishing every day, you could literally stop by the park for twenty minutes, pull it out, it’s ready to go and make a cast, you know, cast for twenty minutes. And I’ll tell you what, that’s one tip that I’ve learned is like, that makes a huge difference to your casting. Because when you get in that, that set, you know, that situation where you got to make a, you know, which we were trying to do. We were fishing the trichos, and we had to make casts within a few inches of the fish. And if you weren’t on, they weren’t taking it. Yeah. Right. So I feel, do you find practicing how’s your cast like your single hand cast? Is that something that is is a constant? You know. 00:30:47 McCormick: You know, I, I could also use cast instruction. I’m not a slouch. You know, I can with the tailwind, I can get, I can, uh, get all my line off my reel if I have, if there’s, if there’s a nice enough wind and if I’m using the right rod, but, uh, accuracy leaves a bit to be desired. It definitely. Across my fly fishing journey, most of my fishing has been on streams that are, you know, thirty feet or smaller. And so if I’ve ever had to cast over forty feet, you know, it just doesn’t happen, right? So I’d say inside forty feet, I’m pretty good, but, uh, outside forty feet, you know, there’s definitely room for improvement. 00:31:24 Dave: Toy. Well, you got it on because I think that, you know, many guides we’ve had on the podcast have said that same thing. The fact that really you don’t have to cast much further, you know, you want to be getting within forty feet or less because, you know, when you get out above that fifty, sixty, you know, no matter who you are, you could be the best caster in the world. It’s just like you’re losing a lot. Yeah, it’s just it’s hard to make that right. So if you talk to the best fly anglers in the world, in the country, they’re going to tell you, try to get within that range you’re talking about. Right? So I think that’s, that’s what you’re doing that. 00:31:56 McCormick: Yeah. And I feel like outside of, you know, that fifty, sixty feet, there’s just so many variables that come into play that, you know, it’s so hard to get a really good, especially if you’re doing like technical dry fly stuff makes it really difficult. Like I know on the South Platte here, you know, you have a lot of days like that where, you know, you’re having to put, you know, a forty or fifty foot cast onto a rising fish. And it’s just, it’s difficult. 00:32:19 Dave: Yeah, it’s a little bit of work I’m looking at right now the cargo boxes and yeah, and these are cool because, uh, you know, again, another thing that I think is doing a good job. Talk about the boxes and maybe the product line. We’ve talked about a few. If we’re missing anything else on top of the box after the boxes here. 00:32:35 McCormick: Yeah. So we have the tents, we have the boxes. Our boxes are a great option. I use our boxes when I travel for work. I usually when I travel for work, it’s, you know, it’s a work trip, but I do a fair bit of fishing as well. Um, so I usually designate a box just for all my fishing gear. I can usually fit in our one twenty liter box. We have two boxes. We have one hundred and ninety liter box and one hundred and twenty liter box. The one hundred and twenty liter box I can fit about probably five or six rods and tubes and all my waders and all of my reels and all my fly boxes very comfortably. And then the one ninety is a little bit longer. It can almost fit a seven and a half foot rod fully open. 00:33:17 Dave: Oh wow. 00:33:17 McCormick: It’s right there. We’re working on developing some products that will make that a little bit easier to kind of integrate well with our boxes and allow us to, uh, you know, have those be able to have our rods, have rods integrate with our cargo boxes. But for now, it’s really just a great place for gear storage. If you’re doing a road trip with the family or you know, you’re doing an overlanding trip and you want to fish. That’s a great, great option to keep your gear safe and out of the way where, you know, if fishing is not the primary reason for the trip, but just having it with you is important to you. 00:33:49 Dave: Having that stuff that you don’t have to get to, like maybe necessarily. Well, I mean, you can get to it pretty easy, right? It’s on top. 00:33:54 McCormick: Yeah, yeah, it’s on the roof of your car. It’s, you know, it’s pretty easy. Another thing with our boxes that I love is they all have drain ports on the bottom. So I’ll throw all my wet boots, my wet gear in there and just open up the drain port. It’s just fine. You know, like if there’s not going to be any condensation build up because the water drains right out. 00:34:12 Dave: Oh that’s cool. Yeah. And they’re they’re made pretty bulletproof right there for sure. For sure about that. What’s the material that they’re made out of. 00:34:19 McCormick: So all of our boxes are made from I think it’s a half inch aluminum on the top and the bottom. It’s super durable. It honestly is. I would consider it significantly safer than leaving your gear in your car just because they they lock. The locks are bulletproof. They’re just a great product. If you care about keeping your gear protected and safe and out of the way. That’s. I think it’s a great option for people no matter what the gear is, right? Like we are one ninety is great. You can, you know, you can fit a couple snowboards or, you know, three or four pairs of skis in there, no problem. And, uh, I’m also a skier. And so, you know, I’m pretty paranoid about my, my skis during the wintertime. 00:35:00 Dave: What about, uh, rifles or hunters putting rifles and stuff up there? 00:35:04 McCormick: People are putting rifles and stuff up there. People put bows. The one twenty is a great size for leaving or having your bow strung up in there. We’re working on some new products to kind of, you know, make kind of so you can customize the box to the sport that you like to do, right? So if you love to fly fish, we’re, we’re trying to come out with some fly fishing specific stuff if you love to hunt. Whether that’s bow or rifle, trying to come out with some stuff that you know, helps integrate into the boxes, that makes it a dream to use and kind of just that extra, like right now, it’s just kind of a place to put your stuff, but adding an extra level of protection in there is, you know, never a bad idea. 00:35:41 Dave: Toy. Could you put that in? I’m not sure if you know what the box weighs, like the one twenty, but could you put that on top of the actual, uh, the tent, the pop up tent? 00:35:51 McCormick: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I actually just did an install for that this week. You know, some guy came in, he came in with his, uh, geo three point oh and put a one twenty liter cargo box on top the way the gas struts on the sides of our tent work. Once you get it past a certain point and kind of just pops up on its own, fully empty. The box weighs about forty five pounds, and so it’s not a super light box, but it does fit very nicely on top of a tent. And you can leave the tent set up. It’s not going to push it down. And honestly, it looks really awesome. It looks really cool. 00:36:25 Dave: Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. So you can put gear in it and you could put, you know, um, again, I’m not sure how much gear it’s going to hold, but they said most of your fly fishing gear and stuff and you could have it on top and it’ll still pop up and you’re not worried about it even leaving the gear in it. 00:36:39 McCormick: Yep. Absolutely. We, we actually do some work with Umpqua because they’re, they’re located not too far from us. Yeah. And they have two of our tents on their work trucks. Kind of my counterpart there, Jackson, he’s on his work truck. He’s got a Geo two point five. And then on top of that, he’s got his rod vault and it works great for him. So he travels and sleeps in that thing and fishes all day. And yeah, so having stuff on top of the tent is not really an issue. 00:37:02 Dave: That’s it. That’s a yeah. I’m quiet. We’ve we’ve been doing some good stuff with them. They’ve got some good stories about that brand, the startup on that brand. Do you know a little bit of the story? I’m not sure if you do. 00:37:11 McCormick: I’ve talked to I can’t remember the guy’s name, but he, uh, the guys from uncle came and took some of our owners on a guided trip. 00:37:20 Dave: For. 00:37:20 McCormick: An afternoon a couple months ago. 00:37:23 Dave: Nice. 00:37:23 McCormick: And I know they had a blast, but I talked to a guy and I can’t remember his name, but he’s. I think he’s one of the guys. 00:37:30 Dave: Yeah, it’s a pretty funny story. Basically, the way it goes is that, um. Oh, there are two big name fly guys. This is back in the seventies, sixties, whatever. Before really back this before fly shops were really around, but they used to tie flies, right? Obviously. Umpqua sells flies. That’s a big part. But they started out in Oregon and they just leave Oregon and just work their way out west towards Idaho and stop by. Basically this kind of this joke was, is kind of selling flies, all the fly shops and smoking weed all the way across the, you know, the West. And they ended out in somewhere in Colorado or, you know, Idaho and fished and just, you know, just like we’re saying, I think they’re in a van. So it’d be very right. It’s very similar to kind of what we all love out just traveling around. And so that’s kind of what they did. And then, um, and then yeah, and then they obviously grew into one of the leaders out there with everything. They got a good crew. 00:38:19 McCormick: They’re a great, great operation. We also do. Personally, I do a lot of stuff with the Yokota, Justin and Jason over there. 00:38:26 Dave: Sure. Yeah, those guys are awesome. 00:38:27 McCormick: They did say I told them I was coming on the podcast. They said to tell you, hi. Nice. 00:38:31 Dave: Yeah, yeah. They’re great. Yeah. I see those guys every once in a while at the show. They have some cool products too. You probably appreciate their stuff because it’s so, uh, pretty unique in its own way, right? 00:38:40 McCormick: Yeah. Well, that’s actually so talking about design stuff, I, I, my, towards the end of college, I did some prototyping work for, uh, Justin and Jason at Yokota. 00:38:50 Dave: Cool. 00:38:51 McCormick: They’re looking to come out with some new stuff. And, you know, I’m a big sewer and rarely do you find people that fly fish. And so, and, you know, are passionate about both things. So it was fun to get to work with them. And Yokota is just one of those brands. I, I’m really attracted to brands that just do things a little differently, like intrepid, right? Like they just have a very unique approach to the gear that they make. And Yokota is the same way. You know, they just, they make an awesome product. 00:39:15 Dave: Yeah. They do. Uh, is it kind of USA made or I’m not even sure on both. Yokota N is intrepid. Is it because that’s a thing, right? A lot of stuff, I’m sure. These tents and everything are coming over overseas. Probably. Right? 00:39:29 McCormick: Yes. So intrepid is not made in the USA. We’re actually manufacturing in Vietnam, but we do own our manufacturing. Right. 00:39:36 Dave: So there’s that’s what it was. 00:39:37 McCormick: We work very closely with the manufacturers. So we have very good quality control when it comes to our product. So if there is a big issue, we can have it addressed really fast. 00:39:47 Dave: Right. That’s what Sloan was saying. Yeah. Because it’s not it’s not just a I don’t know what you call it, like white labeling, right? Yeah. Product slap a logo on. You’re actually in charge of the whole the whole thing. 00:39:57 McCormick: Yeah, absolutely. 00:39:58 Dave: Yeah. Good. Okay, cool. Well, anything else we’re missing about, you know, I know we’re hitting some of this on a high level, but, um, on intrepid, uh, you know, before we start to head out here and take the, uh, the rapid fire round, uh, away with you. 00:40:11 McCormick: Um, I think that’s, uh, I think that’s everything on the brand. Um, you know, it’s it’s just it’s awesome working for a company and working with a company that is just a cut above the rest. You know, so and that’s come from someone who doesn’t, I’m not super big into the overlanding. I wasn’t anyway, until fairly recently. You know, it’s working with a company that is genuinely better is, is awesome. 00:40:35 Dave: So yeah, it feels good when you go into a call with somebody and you’re basically selling the product and you know what I mean? Like it wouldn’t be a good feeling if you were selling a product that stank, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You’re coming from a good place. It makes it easier. So cool. Well, we’ll be following up for sure on, on more of this as we go on, you know, intrepid because, um, you know, I mean, I think there’s, you’re going around to, to some of the, I don’t know if you call them shops, but there’s places right around the west that have local. Yeah. Intrepid. Is there one. Describe that a little bit. Are you doing some of those, uh, stop ins. 00:41:10 McCormick: Yeah. So you know, we have our existing dealer networks. We’re looking to expand that. So with any sort of product, you know, the best people to sell it are people that are using it, right? So part of my job is I travel to our dealers, go to events, go to trade shows, visit their places, talk to their people, and kind of get get them excited about the brand, which is pretty easy when your brand is really awesome. But I do a lot of traveling, and so getting out and meeting all the people in the communities is so fun. I think another thing I love is when no matter what it is, when people are genuinely passionate and excited about something. I just love it. Just, you know, kind of makes me excited too. So meeting people that are super into overlanding or super excited about overlanding just makes me giddy. 00:41:57 Dave: So right, right. That’s awesome. And you mentioned on the, the outdoor activities, you know, fishing, hunting, overlanding, you know, obviously camping, um, skiing, you know, snowboarding, all that stuff. Or is there any other sports or categories that, you know, we haven’t really talked about that. Those are the big ones, right? 00:42:17 McCormick: Yeah. Like in terms of what intrepid can do for people. 00:42:20 Dave: One thing I’m thinking about, I mean, it could be really anything, right? You could talk to the people that are going to a, maybe a tailgate event at a football game. Right? I can imagine that would be kind of cool to have to. 00:42:30 McCormick: Yeah, sure. Yeah. Um, I don’t think that would, I think that would be pretty awesome having a. 00:42:34 Dave: I guess you’d have to be, you’d have to be used to the noise. That’s one thing, right? Because yeah. 00:42:38 McCormick: That’s another thing you’d be, you know, you’d be pretty, pretty used to the noise. 00:42:42 Dave: Yeah. Have the earplugs. Oh yeah. But cool. Well this is great. We’ll, we’ll be following up on this as we go here, but let’s jump into a little rapid fire round. We’ve been loving doing these recently. Some easy questions for you and this will take it away. We’re going to focus on, you know, fly fishing today obviously. And then and then we’ll take it out of here. So the first one and we’ve talked a little bit about this, and I think I know the answer to some of these, but you mentioned, you know, again, small creek or big River, you can only pick one. What are you going with? 00:43:10 McCormick: Oh, I got to go small creek. Just the fish are so pretty, I love them. 00:43:15 Dave: Yeah, exactly. I know, that’s the amazing thing. Okay, so small creeks, um, favorite fly of all time? 00:43:21 McCormick: Dry fly or nymph? 00:43:23 Dave: Uh, yeah. Let’s go. Anything? Let’s go. Anything? 00:43:25 McCormick: Anything? 00:43:25 Dave: Yeah. 00:43:26 McCormick: Uh, I gotta go with, like, a size twelve. Purple. Chubby. 00:43:31 Dave: Yeah. Purple. Chubby. Yep. 00:43:33 McCormick: It just doesn’t miss, you know? 00:43:34 Dave: Yeah. The purple and the chubby is a good combo. You had to pick one weight of rod. Uh, you know, what would it be? 00:43:41 McCormick: Uh, probably a four weight fiberglass rod. 00:43:44 Dave: Oh, cool. There you go. 00:43:46 McCormick: That’s kind of been my go to lately. I’ve been fishing on a glass and it’s it’s awesome. 00:43:50 Dave: Yeah. It’s especially good for. Right? The small stuff, a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What’s, uh, what’s one piece of gear that maybe isn’t fly fishing, but you’re going out on a road trip other than intrepid or you’re flying. Yeah. What’s one piece of gear you don’t leave home without? 00:44:05 McCormick: And it’s not fly fishing related. 00:44:07 Dave: Yeah. It doesn’t. Yeah. And it’s not fly fishing like that. One little luxury item maybe that you love to have out there. 00:44:13 McCormick: Well, I got two that come to mind. Yeah I have. I love just a good tote bag, like something durable that I can just chuck all my stuff in. 00:44:21 Dave: Now, would this be a tote bag? Because I’m instantly, I think a yokota’s. I can’t remember what they call it, but their, their bag that opens up. 00:44:28 McCormick: Yeah. There, I think it’s called the the gear hauler. Yeah. Yeah. Um, they, they make a great one. Uh, in college, I had a weird phase where I was just making a ton of them for my friends. 00:44:39 Dave: Oh, cool. 00:44:39 McCormick: So just like these kind of, you know, big tote bags that I just chuck all my stuff in. And two, I love sunflower seeds. So a bag of. 00:44:47 Dave: Seeds. 00:44:48 McCormick: Is a necessity for me. 00:44:49 Dave: Sunflower seeds. There you go. Now, is that because you’re trying to, uh, quit a vice that you’ve had in the past or just. 00:44:57 McCormick: No, it’s honestly, you know, all growing up, my grandpa and I, he would fish a ton together. We would fish around southern Idaho, like Henry’s Lake, the Henry’s Fork, places like that. And he was always a big sunflower seed either. So I, I kind of picked it up from him. And then ever since then, you know, anytime I’m on a road trip or out on the river, I love having a bag of seeds with me. 00:45:18 Dave: That’s sweet. Do you have a specific brand that you like or flavor? 00:45:21 McCormick: Oh gosh. Probably a cracked pepper. 00:45:25 Dave: Oh, okay. 00:45:26 McCormick: That never gets old. 00:45:27 Dave: Yeah. Cracked pepper. Okay. That’s good. We’ll mark that one down. Um, and then and then you grow. So that’s cool. So you grew up in Idaho. Is that where you kind of grew up? 00:45:34 McCormick: So I grew up, my grandpa actually lived, grew up, lived in Logan. But we had a family cabin in Ashton. 00:45:41 Dave: Oh, cool. 00:45:41 McCormick: So we’d spend a lot of summers up there growing up because I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona actually is where I grew up. 00:45:47 Dave: Oh, wow. 00:45:47 McCormick: And so we would spend a lot of summers up in Ashton. 00:45:49 Dave: Sure. Get away from the the one hundred. And what was it like when you were a kid? Right. You’re. I guess you’re not that old, so you you don’t have to go back too far, but yeah, one hundred and it can get up to like. Right. Almost one hundred and twenty in the city. Right. 00:46:01 McCormick: Oh, yeah. You know, you’d get into your car. It’s not an accurate reading, but it would say like one hundred and twenty six, one hundred twenty seven inside your car or, you know, you’re outside and or it’ll be, uh, eleven o’clock at night and it’ll be one hundred and four and, uh. Yeah, right. That’s just it’s just heartbreaking at that point. 00:46:19 Dave: I know, I know, I’m kind of the way, you know, because I’m in a place where it’s rainy and cold a lot, you know, although things are changing. But I always love the heat. Usually, you know, just because I don’t get a lot of it. So when I get it, it’s like, oh man, I love those nights when it’s hot because I feel like and there’s probably some level of hot, right? When you get up to too much, it’s probably, yeah, it’s a little too much. 00:46:39 McCormick: I think that was the hardest thing about living in Arizona is like, you know, in Colorado or in Utah, even in the summer, it’ll be one hundred degrees, but it’ll still cool off at night, you know? 00:46:47 Dave: Right. 00:46:47 McCormick: It’ll get down to like seventies or eighties. But in Arizona, it just, it just stays hot all the time. So just that lingering after two months of that, you’re like, I’m done. I’m good. I need to get up. I need to get up to Ashton and cool off a little bit. 00:46:59 Dave: Yeah. Idaho. Yeah. Well, we’re doing, uh, next year we’re going to be doing a, uh, Henry’s Lake, uh, Stillwater school with Phil Rowley. 00:47:06 McCormick: Which is. Oh, that’ll be so cool. Yeah. I that’s another thing that’s really popular around here is Stillwater, which I personally am not. I am really bad at it. I’ve tried it, but there’s a lot of people around here that are really into it and like the alpine lakes and stuff. 00:47:20 Dave: Oh, right. 00:47:21 McCormick: I’d love to get more into it. I think it’s kind of my next you know, I said my favorite thing is the next thing. And so I think that’s kind of my next thing. 00:47:26 Dave: Yeah. You should check it out. Yeah. Check out our feed. We got the Phil roll is one of the best out there. And he he does. Oh man. The show circuit. But he’s doing our podcast on Stillwater and he’s done a number of great episodes on. So yeah, check out those if you want to get get dialed in for your lines, you’re gonna have to buy a few more lines. That’s the only thing. 00:47:42 McCormick: But oh no. 00:47:45 Dave: But cool. Well, let’s grab one more and then we’ll take it out here. I always love to talk, you know, kind of music, podcasts, stuff like that. So you’re on a road trip, you got your intrepid camp gear on, you’re cruising. What are you listening to? Music. Are you listening to podcasts or a little of both? 00:47:59 McCormick: I’m a big audiobook guy. 00:48:01 Dave: Oh, nice. 00:48:01 McCormick: Which is kind of random. You know, I, I love to read, but I just don’t have the time to do it. So when I’m driving, audiobooks are great. 00:48:08 Dave: That’s it. 00:48:09 McCormick: Or music? Uh, honestly, I just kind of put all my music on shuffle and just whatever the mood feels like is what I’m going to listen to. 00:48:17 Dave: So yeah, what’s your, what’s your style of music? So shuffle, is it a very diverse of, uh, like a little bit of everything? 00:48:24 McCormick: Yeah. You know, sometimes sometimes we’ll get some, uh, you know, uh, there’s a band I really love called the Avett Brothers. Um, how do you spell that? Uh, a v e t t brothers. 00:48:35 Dave: Avett brothers. Okay. 00:48:36 McCormick: They’re kind of like a folksy type band. Um, I love, but then, you know, you know, there’s some Black Sabbath on there. Sure. There’s some, uh, uh, a little bit of Tupac every now and again. Honestly, there’s, there’s no wrong. There’s no bad music in my opinion. 00:48:52 Dave: Yeah. In the same way I feel like everything, you know, there’s some, maybe some songs I don’t love, but it feels like. Yeah, especially the live. I don’t know if you do much live music, but that’s one thing where you see somebody performing and, and I know how hard it is right to play something. Right? That’s right. It’s pretty cool. So. Well, I think what we’ll do is leave it with some Avett Brothers. Uh, as we head out of here and maybe on on Instagram, we’ll try to track them down as well and put that on a, on a reel there if we can. 00:49:18 McCormick: Um, perfect. 00:49:19 Dave: But cool. McCormick. Well, this has been great. I appreciate the update on everything intrepid and your fly fishing and we’ll definitely be in touch. So thanks for all your time today and until the next one, we’ll talk to you then. 00:49:29 McCormick: Thanks, Dave. Appreciate it. 00:49:32 Dave: All right. Big takeaway today. If you’re interested in getting out and making things easier on the road, check in with intrepid camp gear, check in with the pop up. I’m going to be doing a little more of that this year. And, uh, and it’s always good to have a place to pop up, uh, whenever you need to on the side of the road or wherever is convenient. That’s what it’s all about. Check in with intrepid camp gear. Also, if you’re interested in Wet Fly Swing Pro, you can go to pro dot swing dot com, check in there and we will get you access to Wet Fly Swing Pro. And, uh, let’s look ahead to see what we have coming here in the future. Uh we do, yeah we have. I thought we had hunting with the flies. So we got Rick back on this week. So stay tuned in for the next episode. Rick is here, a big one coming up. And we just also launched the Togiak Spay giveaway. So if you’re interested in learning more about we talk spay today. If you’re interested in learning more about spay fishing, especially for Chinook salmon, uh, we just launched the Togiak spay School. It’s going on right now. You can go to Netflix dot com slash giveaway for a chance to win. Or check in with me by email, Dave at Netflix dot com. If you want to grab a spot there. That’s all I got for you today. Appreciate you for stopping in and look forward to seeing you on the next episode. I hope you’re having a good morning, evening, or afternoon, and we’ll talk to you on the next one. 00:50:49 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly Swing Fly Fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wet fly dot com.