971 | Rachel Finn on the Ausable, Dry Fly Fishing, and Patagonia

WFS 971 Transcript 00:00:00 Dave: Rachel Finn sees fly fishing a little differently than most people on the water. She spent more than three decades guiding on the Ausable. She’s an artist, a Patagonia ambassador, and someone who’s just as passionate about conservation as she is about dry fly fishing. Today, Rachel shares practical tips for fishing the Ausable, why she starts every angler with a dry fly, and some amazing stories that only Rachel can tell in her own style. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast, where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing. How to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Rachel Finn is here from the Hungry Trout Fly Shop, and today you’re going to find out what artists notice that can make you a better fly angler on the water. We’re going to find out about simple dry fly techniques that work on the Ausable, and also how Patagonia has shaped her approach to conservation and how she got started with Patagonia, plus the travel destination she’s most excited about right now, from Argentina to New Zealand and beyond. You can find Rachel at the Hungry Trout Fly shop. Here she is. Rachel. Finn, how you doing, Rachel? 00:01:07 Rachel: Doing great. Dave. 00:01:08 Dave: Awesome, awesome. Really great to have you back on the show. We had you back on. It’s been a number of years. We got to go all the way back to twenty nineteen. Episode seventy two. We’re approaching one thousand now. So that was a number of guests ago, but it was a great episode because I want to put a link in the show notes because I think it still remains, I think as the champion in our in our feed for most swear words. So I well, you know. 00:01:32 Rachel: Certainly not proud of that day. 00:01:34 Dave: No, no. And I love it. I love it because of that. 00:01:36 Rachel: No, that was terrible, terrible, terrible behavior. Just, you know, I’m embarrassed. So I’m I’m thank you for letting me, you know, have another swipe at it. And, uh, I’ll try and, you know, control myself. 00:01:49 Dave: Right on, right on. 00:01:50 Rachel: I might have been drinking during that first. 00:01:52 Dave: Oh, there you go. 00:01:52 Rachel: I’m not sure. I’m not sure. That was a brutal year for me, dude. 00:01:56 Dave: Was it? Twenty nineteen was tough. That was before Covid, right? 00:01:59 Rachel: Yeah. It’s when my husband died. Oh, right. It was all kinds of messed up, you know? And, uh, whatever. No excuse for using that kind of profanity when there’s children around. 00:02:11 Dave: Right, right, right. Well, we just label it. We just label it explicit and we’re good to go. So I like to I like people to talk naturally. I feel like it’s better to talk naturally. So we’ll, we’ll kind of do that on this episode as well. But, um, I think today we’re going to talk about a few things. You’re in a famous part of the country, you know, the, as we mentioned, the hungry trout, you’ve got a lot going on. You’ve got artwork, you’ve got I think you’ve got some spray going on here too. Maybe we could talk about that. But also Patagonia, you’re an ambassador. Patagonia, one of the great brands out there. We love them. The Swift current waders are awesome. So we’re going to talk about all this today. We’re going to try to pack it into a short little segment. Does that sound good? 00:02:47 Rachel: Sounds great. Go for it. 00:02:48 Dave: Okay, cool. Well let’s kick it off at the top first. What has been going on? Take us back twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, the last six years. What have you been anything new or have you been just pounding away and doing catching nice fish? 00:03:00 Rachel: Well, catching a few fish for sure. Well, twenty nineteen was, you know, as I mentioned before, a really a major event happened. My husband passed away of cancer. And, uh, you know, that was horrible and then Covid, right? And so like grief plus Covid equals like, whoa, dude, but whatever. I mean, I, you know, just kind of figured it out or still figuring it out that I, I don’t really, you know, grief is a crazy thing. And I really had not had any major losses at that point in my life, personal losses. And, uh, you know, it was, uh, it was a big deal. It still is a big deal, but, um, it never really goes away. But it does change. And, uh, things you move on and I’ve been able to, uh, you know, sort of navigate things in a different way. I was left with three dogs And, uh, which I loved. And now I don’t have any dogs anymore. Oh, wow. And, yeah, well, you know, it happens, and, uh, but, uh, I’ve been able to actually add some travel to my life style and that’s been great. And also continuing to guide here in the Adirondacks. And that is, um, something I’ve been doing a very long time and I love it. Um, it’s getting harder and harder for many reasons. One is I’m old and, uh, I’m sixty four, but I’m in, you know, I’m doing okay for an old lady, regardless of various, uh, orthopedic issues. But, um, I did have my hip replaced in the fall and I’m crushing it. 00:04:39 Dave: But. 00:04:39 Rachel: Uh, yeah, man, I mean, uh, you know, uh, climate is really just the hugest culprit here. And in fact, I’m sitting, sitting in my house right now and it’s, I don’t know, I think it’s eighty eight out right now. Wow. It’s only like ten. It’s well, no, eighty five. Ten o’clock in the morning, dude. And, um, we’re supposed to get, you know, triple digits here today, which is. 00:05:02 Dave: Oh my God. 00:05:03 Rachel: So unusual. Well, nothing’s unusual anymore, right? I mean. 00:05:06 Dave: Because it’s June, right? Or. I’m sorry, it’s not June. It’s early July. 00:05:10 Rachel: It’s July second. Right. So when I moved here, I moved here over thirty years ago. And, um, you would have never considered buying an air conditioner. No kidding. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, this is no surprise, right? Climate change. And so now, you know, we’ve been in the throes of this for a very long time up here. As far as now, I’m talking about fishing. As far as warm water issues, you know, the West is starting to see it. They’ve been seeing it a couple of years, but it’s really hitting home now out west and it’s hitting home everywhere, all over the world, dude. And, um, so, you know, we have to, uh, take action as much as we can and, and become, uh, different kind of anglers, in my opinion. And maybe, you know, not. No, definitely not trout anglers. I mean, when I first came here, you could fish trout all summer. And I remember meeting clients that said, oh, well, I’m from blah, blah, blah south of here. You know, our trout season ends in June. I’m like, oh, sucker. You know, and, uh, not sucker. But I mean, I was like, huh, that’s wild. And, uh, you know, I was like, well, we don’t have that here. And now we have that here. We have water temperatures that are, I don’t even want to repeat what some of them are sometimes. And, you know, uh, there’s a lot of, um, I’m kind of like the chicken Little up here, you know, I’m the sky is falling. The sky, the sky is kind of falling. I mean, I’m not all doom and gloom. I’m trying to figure out a way to like, educate people. I think that’s the key. Instead of running around telling people, don’t do this, don’t do that. You know, you shouldn’t be doing this. And it’s which is true, right? But saying, okay, hey, do you know, and this is a bone of contention with a lot of people don’t understand actually what happens with trout when the water gets warm. 00:06:57 Dave: Yeah. Describe that. What happens because we’re right in the middle. Okay. Yeah. 00:07:00 Rachel: I’m going to preface this by saying I am not a scientist, and I don’t even play one on television, but I am involved on the board of Keep Fish Wet, which is an amazing organization run by Sasha Danylchuk and her husband, Andy Danylchuk is a fisheries biologist who’s also a Patagonia ambassador. You should also you should interview him. That’s one interesting cat. I will. Anyways, so here’s like basic knowledge of what I know or think what happens. But essentially when the water temperature goes up, the trout’s metabolism increases, right? So that’s going to promote activity that you might observe as wow, they’re feeding or wow, that fish swam away because they’re freaking out, dude. They’re in a fight or flight thing, right? And there’s all kinds of chemical things going on in their body. Plus you just hooked him on a line and and made them very tired. And there’s lactic acid and all kinds of stuff. It’s just not a good thing, right? I mean, it’s not ethical if you are catch and release fishing, if you are fishing in an area where you’re going to harvest some fish and that’s legal where you are. Go for it, you know? But in areas like here on the Ausable, we have, um, like seven miles of catch and release water. So, you know, like nobody’s first of all, everybody, it’s a prerequisite. Now in my book, any kind of cold water angler should be carrying a thermometer, period. Like no excuses, no excuses. Right. And no, what, what we call angling thresholds are, which it’s not like when you should stop fishing, but signs that we can observe in catching fish that you know, are going to say, hey, these fish are aren’t so great, right? You know, they’re not in great shape. So we have all kinds of information like that to keep fish wet. And we’re starting a new program actually in July, starting now that we’re going to, you know, really try and get that point across. And but here’s the deal. Here’s the deal. It’s not about you. 00:08:58 Dave: It’s not it’s not about catching fish, right? It’s not about you getting a giant fish anymore. 00:09:02 Rachel: It’s not about I’m sorry that it’s your vacation. And I’m sorry that you drove five hours north and thought it was going to be warmer. I wish it were. It’s not. 00:09:11 Dave: That’s the easy thing to do. Right, Rachel? You can call the shop and be like, hey, how are things going? You know, get a little I mean, what is the temp up there? Are we looking at like, when do you is it, you know, is there a certain temp range? Like when should people not be fishing up there? When does that temp hit? 00:09:26 Rachel: Well, there’s a lot of science behind that too. And there are temperatures for different types of trout. But up here we call it and I think it’s a little warm. We call it at seventy. No fishing after seventy. But really like, you know. 00:09:41 Dave: Might be lower, might be better. Be safe, be conservative. 00:09:44 Rachel: Yeah. We’re, we’re blessed with a lot of oxygen in the water. We have a lot of dissolved oxygen. We have a lot of pocket water. That’s the only thing that’s saving a lot of these trout. We lose trout for sure, but we are also blessed to have that. One thing we are not blessed with is a huge wild population of trout. Uh, we have a lot of stock trout. So there’s another that brings up another kind of, uh, ethical, you know, thing like, you know, is it okay to like, oh, they’re just stocked trout and dude, I’m kind of like, yeah, but I don’t know. 00:10:22 Dave: Yeah, but stock trout, if they breed in the wild, they become wild, right? 00:10:27 Rachel: Yeah, man. And that’s like saying, or you’ll have this like, we’ll have multiple days of warm temperatures like we’re having now, right? 00:10:36 Dave: Yep. Like one hundred, like triple digits up there this week. 00:10:39 Rachel: Oh yeah. And the night time temperatures are in the seventies. So that’s no bueno. Right? Usually like if you have a hot day and maybe if you get a night into the fifties, water temp will go down. You have a few hour window in the morning, early morning only. So I would like to see actually, and I’m just the worst bureaucrat you’ve ever seen in your life. I’m totally. But I have this idea that I’d like to see New York State implement a hoot owl regulation. 00:11:08 Dave: Yeah. So there’s no hoot owl at all. Like Montana. 00:11:10 Rachel: In my mind, there’s no hoot owl. I might be wrong again. I’m not. And I don’t use ChatGPT. So I guess I can’t look this up. But whatever. You could look it up. So whatever. There’s no major hoot. Owl regulations in the East on the Beaverkill River in the Delaware watershed, there’s a thermal refuge area, which is cool, cool. Well, whatever, no pun intended, but whatever. There’s an area, but I would like to see that, especially in catch and release areas. It’s like a no brainer, right? I mean, hello. So, um, now I’m just terrible at getting those kind of things to happen, and I’m working on it very slowly, but I’m gonna keep at it. And, uh, that’s something that I feel pretty powerful about. And, you know, when you see the temps day after day after day, like last year, we had a brutal drought, dude. Brutal. Listen, at least right now we’re having hot temperatures, but we had a ton of rain. We’ve had a lot of thunderstorms and rain. So if it’s got to be warm water, I’d rather have a lot of warm water, you know, and a lot of oxygen. So that’s good. So we’ve had that. But day after day after day. And then like the first day that it goes under seventy, it could be like sixty nine point one. You know, somebody will be out there fishing and I’m like, dude, that’s like waiting outside the hospital. And then they wheel somebody out in a wheelchair and then they’re out of the hospital, and then you beat the out of them, but they’re not in the hospital, you know? 00:12:38 Dave: Yeah. You got to give it a little time. You got a little time for recovery, right? 00:12:42 Rachel: Well, that’s again, it’s like not really about it’s about the resource, dude. This is the whole thing, right? This is the whole thing. So I hate that this is happening. 00:12:52 Dave: Well, have you seen impacts? Have you seen with like trout? What sort of changes have you seen in the Ausable over the years. Have you seen the temperatures. 00:12:59 Rachel: Temperatures are are higher. We are really hurting in the bug department. 00:13:05 Dave: Oh you are so the bugs are being affected. 00:13:07 Rachel: Oh, huge. I’m not again, I’m not a scientist. I don’t know what it is. I think it’s a lot of things. Right. I think it’s obviously the heat and climate. It’s obviously like, uh, environmental things and developments and things like that. It’s also this watershed is very, um, psychotic and goes up and down quite fast. We had a huge storm here, Irene. I don’t know what year that was, but it was a while ago, but things like that, cumulative effects. But I think everybody can agree pretty much. I don’t know if worldwide, but at least across the country, that the lack of aquatic insects is definitely happening. 00:13:44 Dave: It’s true. We had the salmon fly project to is doing a lot of work in Montana in the West, right? So yes, and I think eventually once they as they grow, they’re going to probably head out east. But they’ve been documenting that. Right. We’ve seen changes and salmon flies, right? These are bugs that are going away where they used to be. So there’s a lot of these changes going on. Well tell me about this because Patagonia we mentioned them at the start. Talk about what you do with Patagonia, what it is to be an ambassador, and maybe talk about some of the things that you’ve done with them. Or, you know, I know you’ve tested gear, right? That’s been part of it. 00:14:14 Rachel: Well, a little bit. I mean, I’m, I’m like, I’m honored and, and really quite blessed to be affiliated with them. Well, this is an interesting story. When I first came on, I don’t know, it was like eight years ago or whatever I happened to be put on at the year. They were doing a summit of all of the ambassadors from all over the world for all the sports that they do. 00:14:38 Dave: Holy cow. 00:14:39 Rachel: Right. So you had your surfers, you had Gerry Lopez, you had all those climbers, the skiers, everything, everything. Then you had fly fishermen. And we, by the way, had the largest, uh, BMIs, definitely of all of these people. Body mass index. 00:14:55 Dave: Oh, body body mass index is right. Nice. 00:14:59 Rachel: So everybody got flown out to, uh, Ventura, and it was just amazing. And here I am. I’m like, I don’t even know. You know, it’s like that. David. Uh, you know, like the talking heads. How did I get here? You know, I just got whatever. So I’m there and it was just right from the start, just very clear to me like that I was involved in something very powerful, not because of the stuff. Right. So we, we had like four days of meetings and fun and stuff. And, you know, like they had like you could learn to surf with Jerry Lopez. I mean, come on. Right. Unfortunately, I was just about to have a knee replacement. But anyways, so all these meetings, nothing, nothing was about selling anything. And immediately I’m like, wow, this is pretty amazing. And it was all about becoming involved at a deeper level, essentially becoming an activist to protect and defend your resource or whatever resources that you have the time to do, especially the ones that you’re involved with, right? And how they have the people and the money and everything and the chops to help you with that. I just thought that was incredible right from the beginning, you know, and they had me at hello, you know, because up to that point, I’ve always been a little frustrated, like, and a little intimidated on like, how can I do anything? I’m just this fat old lady here in New York. Like, what? What can I do? 00:16:32 Dave: And we all feel that way. We all sit here and feel like, what can we do? 00:16:35 Rachel: Right, right, right. And then we have some serious rock stars on our team for, uh, you know, fly fishing, you know, Hillary Hutchison and Blaine Chocolate. I mean, these guys are, like, in up to their necks and just such great, uh, voices and really championing whatever, you know, fisheries they’re involved with and testifying at the Senate, you know, and I mean, real deal stuff. And so that’s amazing. But, you know, I’m a little more grassroots and I’ll do things, you know, I can’t say that I’ve written any Senate legislation, but, uh, whatever, man, every little bit helps, you know? 00:17:15 Dave: Yeah. 00:17:15 Rachel: And I think that so my involvement from the get go with those guys was really like surprising to me because yeah, I’m like, well, this cool shirts and everything, you know, and. 00:17:25 Dave: I’m. 00:17:25 Rachel: Like, you know, screw the shirts. And I mean, you know, they make great stuff. There’s no question. And to also see like how seriously they take making everything and how they test everything, not just test it, but they’re seriously like sourcing. The way they source things is different. It’s really interesting. 00:17:43 Dave: What were you doing before when you first, when Patagonia reached out to you? What were the things you were doing? They, you know, conservation wise or what were you interested in back then? 00:17:52 Rachel: Well, I don’t know if they recognized anything that I, I don’t think I couldn’t say that I was doing anything on a national level, you know, as far as conservation. I mean, I was essentially, you know, a hard working fishing guide. And that’s how I attribute how I got anything, whatever that means, get anything. But I mean, how I became affiliated with some companies was just through doing the work, baby. I mean, just, you know, at that point, you know, twenty plus years of guiding and just trying to be. Now remember when I got involved in all this stuff, there was no internet, there was no smartphone, there were no pro staffs, there were no influencers, there were no anything. Right. It was nothing. It was like, hey, I want to be a fishing guide, you know? And yes, of course, there were equipment companies and things happening. I mean, if you really want to go at it, look at I think like the first ambassadors were burying Cathy Beck, right? I mean, with sage and they and yeah, man, they were the first people to like, really, you know, become involved with a brand and, uh, you know, that were anglers and guides and then travel hosts and, you know, they wrote the book, in my opinion, as far as. And they were extremely, I mean, Barry Cathy passed away, but Barry’s still out there doing it, man. And they, you know, they were the quintessential professionals. Barry Beck. Oh, Barry and Cathy Beck and, uh, yeah, man, if you don’t know who those people were, look them up. But, uh, are Barry still doing it? He’s a he’s a machine. So when I got involved, you know, this kind of whatever’s happening now, which is just blows me away. It wasn’t happening. So it was all kind of like gravy. You know, we used to go to, uh, fly fishing shows where the way that people, you know, community evolved, right? 00:19:41 Dave: That was, that was the only community. Right? Fly fishing shows. 00:19:44 Rachel: Well, that was how you started community, you know, and, and it was amazing because it was in person. Right. And we had a lot of fun. And we, we had, you know, it was crazy, but that’s kind of how I got started. And then, you know, over time, uh, but, uh, you know, what’s happening now. I mean, in some ways, it’s amazing how fast we can communicate and how, how amazing information can get, you know, tangled good and bad, whatever. But I mean, it’s, it’s really, I don’t know, man, I kind of joke that I’m kind of glad I’m old. I’m not good looking enough to like, make it as an influencer, but, uh, whatever. I mean, you know, part of me just, you know, shakes my head a lot, you know, to. I mean, it’s not just fishing either, right, man? I mean, I’m an artist. Like it should be illegal to look at art on a phone, you know, even though you do it, even though you do it. But I just hope like it’s cool to like reference things and see things quickly that you go and take the next step, you know, like you actually go to that place and go fishing and you go and try and figure it out yourself instead of on some like app thing, you know, or like I always joke with some of the younger guides that I work with, you know, I’m like, what are you doing? Like, I remember this in the beginning, like Evan Botcher, who’s a great guy, he’s my boss. I used to watch him get on the school bus every day. Wow. But, uh, he’s he’s great, great guy, great angler. But long time ago, when Google Earth first started, I walked into the shop and I’m like, what are you doing? He’s like, oh, I’m figuring out this river. And I’m like, oh, okay. And I’m like, huh, does Mr. Google tell you there’s a barbed wire fence? Like where you get in there? And like, what if fish is like on a sunny day or like, you still got to go? He knew that you still had to go. But I, I’m part of me was like, you know, kind of jealous. Like I had to like, find all that out myself on a paper map and drive thousands of miles, you know, to figure things out. Now it’s like amazing. Although, you know that I’m not saying that these people have it figured out, but I don’t I’m not saying I have it figured out, but whatever. I mean, it’s just as somebody that’s witnessed full spectrum of culture and what’s happened before smartphones, you know, and now, I mean, but it’s also beautiful that you can communicate with people on the other side of the world for sure, dude. 00:22:01 Dave: And that’s what this podcast is a great example of that because we’re talking to you right now. We’ve interviewed people all around the world just doing this and it’s like, oh yeah, the good, right? The good is the podcast. The bad is, you know, the politics. You can see, right? The politics, you see the how the algorithms focus on, you know, they do bad stuff, right? 00:22:19 Rachel: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, they’re listening to you right now. Like you even I swear to God, sometimes you just think about something and then you see a ad for it on your phone, but whatever. I mean, it’s it’s there. 00:22:31 Dave: It sounds like you’re just like, totally. It sounds like you’ve been pretty lucky to basically. I mean, you’ve done some great stuff, but you’re just because I know it’s not easy to become a Patagonia ambassador, right? I mean, there’s a lot of people that would love to work with Patagonia, but they kind of select. 00:22:45 Rachel: We have a lot of people that I mean, I don’t even know what that really means. I mean, it means a lot. But it’s also like people are doing things that you don’t know about. And that’s important too. Like we have events all over the country through shops and our people in different areas doing waiter wash. And, uh, you know, we have a big event coming up in Boston and I’m very excited about with, uh, the guys from Soulfly. So that’s, uh, Kyle Schafer, who’s one of our ambassadors and his buddy Alec. I don’t know these guys, but they did a huge thing in Charleston, and it’s like a community thing. It looked like sort of like a a Woodstock for fly. 00:23:24 Dave: Oh, wow. 00:23:25 Rachel: Yeah. The one they did in trust, it looked amazing. It was all music and food and art and all. I think they like all tied, no ego, you know, and I and I, they’re going to do one in Boston, which is my hometown. I’m very excited. That’s going to be on September twelfth. And, uh, there’ll be details about that online. I’m sure I’m starting to see stuff now, but, you know, bringing people together and empowering people to use their energy in a positive way to protect the resource or to, you know, be a little more sustainable, I think is always good. I can tell you this, before I started, you know, working for Patagonia, I would always be one of those guides that had like, I don’t know, two cases of the plastic water in your truck for people. And then at the end of every trip, you’re like, you’re throwing away like four half full ones, you know, and you’re right. And, but little things like that, I’m not saying, you know, I’m not changing the world, but maybe I am. Maybe I’m starting to change the world, you know, or you don’t have to be intimidated. I think it sort of took although I was intimidated by and still am by some of the other people that I work with, how amazing they are. I feel like sometimes I’m not doing enough, but that’s my, my bad. And I think as I’m older now, I really feel the need to volunteer more and give back and do things, you know, not be so selfish about my time because that’s I don’t have any money, you know, so I’ve, I have time and, uh, I still can do some things with that. So it’s been a really pleasure of my life to be affiliated with those guys and met some amazing people and, um, look forward to more good things down the road. 00:25:10 Dave: That’s awesome. Yeah. I’m just looking at the, the Soulfly. It looks like. Yeah, they have some good stuff going. They’ve got, uh, people can check out Soulfly Soulfly dot com and they’ve got some events there and yeah. 00:25:22 Rachel: Yeah, just, you know, it’s like, I think community really is what’s going to save us, right? 00:25:27 Dave: Yeah. And music is the best music, right? It brings, it brings. We all. I mean, who doesn’t love a little bit of music, right? That’s that’s pretty awesome. 00:25:34 Rachel: Well, music and and then sharing the love of angling and, you know, and some maybe some beer, I don’t know, you know, but I think essentially all over, like, look at our world is so screwed up, right? I mean, I think really, I don’t think any one person’s going to come and save us, right? Like we’re all waiting, we’re all waiting. We have to save its community. That’s going to save us. 00:25:56 Dave: We got to come together, right? As a group. That’s what’s beautiful, right? So we got the Soulfly, we got some events coming. Talk about the Ausable. Let’s bring it back to that a little bit. What is it about the Ausable again? I haven’t been there yet, but it’s still a place that I want to get. You know, I’ve got all these places. Describe the Ausable. Describe what we’re looking at. If we’re okay, you know, why is it. Yeah. That place. 00:26:16 Rachel: Sure. Well, it’s a Freestone River in the Adirondack Mountains. Adirondack mountains are some of the oldest mountains in the world. And we are inside of the Adirondack Park, which is one of the largest states, not a national park. It’s a state park, and it’s quite large. It’s six million acres. It’s bigger than Yosemite, uh, Yellowstone Glacier, all of those put together. And it’s a mixture of private and public land. And, um, I believe it was in eighteen sixty two, it was start that don’t quote me on that, but it’s a pretty interesting area. And so the Ausable is one. There are many rivers inside the park, but it’s a freestone river and it’s, you know, is it the best fishing in the world? Absolutely not. It is not the best fishing in the world. And, uh, we have, you know, a pretty high percentage of stock trout. But I’ll tell you what. I don’t think you’re going to find a more beautiful river to fish in the whole United States as far as parts of the Ausable. And it’s very historic. You know, fly fishing in the United States started in the northeast. So there are lots of historic references here and all. A lot of the, you know, Ray Bergman and, you know, Lee Wolfe and Joan Wolfe and Bert. 00:27:32 Dave: Patagonia’s new Swift current waders are here, and they’re changing the game for anglers who demand more from their gear. 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I don’t even think I was guiding yet. And there was a film crew up here with her filming, and they wanted to, they were going to fish on some of the water that the hungry trout has. So I took them over there. Now, I was not guiding them, but I took them over there. Right. And, uh, they were fishing and I was standing next to Joan. I had my fishing vest on and, uh, Joan looks at me and she says, can you tie a tippet on for me? And I’m just like, you know, whoa. You know? Right. And so I’m like, sure. And then I made the mistake of saying how much, right? So she kind of looks at me like, you don’t know, you know, or whatever, since she tells me how much. So I cut some off and then I start tying and she looks at me and she says, oh, you use the easy. Not because I was tying a surgeon’s knot, not a blood knot. Oh, yeah, I thought I was gonna my pants. So just adorable. Right? But she’s a badass. So I had a very nice, uh, opportunity a few years ago, maybe four years ago, with a bunch of really cool women. We spent the day with Joan up in the Catskills, and we were having cocktails with her, and I told her that story. She didn’t remember it, but she said, I can’t believe I asked you to tie on it. 00:29:56 Speaker 3: Oh, wow. 00:29:57 Rachel: You know, so she’s amazing, you know, and I just, uh, my hair. One of my heroes for sure. So the Ausable. Yeah. I mean, it’s, um, it’s got some of the most beautiful pocket water you’ve ever seen for sure. Yeah. And kind of our local famous person would be Frances Betters, who was a fly tyer. Now, Frances Betters is an interesting tire. I think he’s overlooked. He was essentially one of the first tires to break out of what we call the Catskill tradition of of flies. Okay. You know, those very beautiful dries. Sparse. Yeah. Perfect. So Fran was the first guy to make buggy flies, and he started doing that when he was in high school. Dude, his dad was a guide, and a lot of the anglers would hang out with his dad. So he was around a lot of anglers and the sable’s got a lot of pocket water, a lot of fast water. So a lot of those traditional dries just didn’t cut it. Right. And this is before like chubbies and like nobody was using any, uh, foam or anything. So his first big fly was called the haystack, which is an amazing fly, which was eventually kind of morphed into the comparison, if you would. In my opinion, this is not, you. 00:31:15 Speaker 3: Know, no. 00:31:15 Rachel: Kidding. But if you look at the, you know, Yeah. So the anyways, very simple ties that, uh, Fran made, but very like, you know, buggy kind of nasty looking. Uh, he also, uh, another, uh, famous fly of his is called the usual. So I kind of consider him like the Kazan of fly tyers because he was like impressionistic. Right. And, um, so he’s part of the lore here and it’s, you know, like I said, is there better fishing? Yeah. Are you gonna find a more, uh, beautiful place in my book? I’ve, I’ve had the opportunity and the great fortune to travel some cool places on in the world to do some fishing. And, you know, every time I come home, I’m driving into, uh, Wilmington and from the highway, Lake Placid and Keene and I’m like, wow, man, I live in a really nice place. I’m very lucky, you know, so I, I still feel that way. 00:32:08 Speaker 3: Yeah. It’s cool. Yeah. And the photos, we’ll throw some photos in the show notes. It’s just beautiful, right? The, the scenery and the everything. 00:32:15 Rachel: Yeah. The US labels, you know, it’s got problems for sure. You know, there’s we do have a good, uh, community here trying to take care of it. So that’s good. And we’ve got some really good fishing, you know, up towards the Canadian border here as well. And we have Lake. Lake Champlain. One thing that I was very excited about was we have a two chapter, but then a new two chapter started at the University State University of New York in Plattsburgh, which is forty minutes from here, like one of those, uh, Five rivers, two Costa things of young people. I’m all about this young people getting jazzed, you know, to like, take charge, man, you know? So that’s, that’s a great thing. 00:32:57 Speaker 3: Young fly anglers. 00:32:59 Rachel: Yes. And, um, you know, they, they got it going on and there’s some great faculty over there to helping out. And that made me feel very good, you know, like just, uh, carry the torch, you know. 00:33:11 Speaker 3: Yeah. That’s always the thing, right? I think the kids are, I think there are more even more interested in conservation, obviously, because they’re younger, they’re going to be around for even longer. Right? 00:33:21 Rachel: Well, they’re in the crosshairs, dude. And, uh, you know, we all have to work together to save it, but, uh, it’s crazy. It’s crazy. So, yeah, so, um, we were just talking about some travel stuff. I’ve been, uh. I was really blessed this year. I spent a good chunk of time in Belize. 00:33:40 Speaker 3: Oh, really? 00:33:41 Rachel: Yeah, I was there for February and March, and, uh, I’ve got a a dear friend, Lori Ann Murphy. Oh, yeah. Somebody you should interview. 00:33:49 Speaker 3: No, we’ve had Lori Ann on. She’s awesome. 00:33:51 Rachel: Oh, she’s the best. And, uh, legendary. 00:33:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, she’s got a program, right. She’s got a little program down there or she had one. 00:33:57 Rachel: She’s got a program, dude, she is a program man. But, you know, like, you know, the first woman to start a woman run business in this country. First woman Orvis endorsed guide. You know, a lot of people don’t know about Lori Ann. If you’re listening to this and you don’t know who Lori Ann Murphy is, look her up. But anyway, she lives in Belize. Long story short, I had my hip replaced in October and I was in my house and I had to stay on the first floor of my house and my sofa bed because I couldn’t go up the stairs. It was very hot outside, like super weird hot October like eighty five. I had all the windows and curtains shut and all of a sudden somebody pounding on my door. Rachel! Rachel, get out of your house right now! 00:34:39 Speaker 4: I’m like, what. 00:34:40 Rachel: Is going on? There was a propane leak, so I opened my front door, like basically in my underwear with a cane, and there’s a hiss and a cloud of gas spewing out of this tank in front of my studio, which is right next to my house, which is spewing at my car, which is on a main street, which maybe forty feet past that is a gas station. And so this thing is just spewing out. There’s one hundred pound tank was full and the fire department showed up. Essentially, the leak was in the bottom of the tank. We had to wait for the tank to empty before it was over and it didn’t blow up. And I basically sat there and said, okay, I’m going to watch my house blow up. Okay, here we go. And so it didn’t. 00:35:25 Speaker 4: It didn’t. 00:35:26 Rachel: And then right after that, I was talking to Laurie Ann and she’s down in Ambergris Key. She’s got a business there called Real Belize, and she has a opening, a small fly shop in like a shipping container building there in San Pedro. She’s like, oh, man, I gotta find somebody to work in the shop. And I’m like, huh? I’m like, I know somebody that could work in that shop. She’s like, yeah, who? I’m like me, dude. She’s like, no. And, you know, this is right after I almost died, you know? 00:35:54 Speaker 3: Oh, right. 00:35:55 Rachel: Yeah. I mean, there would just be a hole in the ground where my house is if that thing had lit up. Let’s just say that. So, you know, it makes you rethink some things, you know? And, uh, I’m an old lady, man. I’ve been through some. So that’s like life. Seven out of nine, right? You know, I mean, I don’t have many left, So I’m like, I’m going to Belize, man. So I did. And, uh, when I went there, she had found somebody, a local person, a great woman to work in the shop. So I was off the hook. So basically all I did was fish there. And, um, I had my own little golf cart and I just, you know, was like voluntary beat down every day and, uh, loved it, you know? I don’t know a lot about saltwater fishing. I know a little bit more now, but and I got my ass kicked and loved every minute of it. And I was out that door every day at six o’clock, and I came back at, like, four. 00:36:42 Speaker 3: You did? Were you able to find some, uh, some action? 00:36:45 Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. 00:36:45 Rachel: I caught a lot of bonefish. You know, I had a couple of encounters with permit that didn’t go too well or didn’t have a shot, you know? But, I mean, it was all, you know, I knew a few spots from before I’d been there and but a lot of it was just, you know, doing the work. 00:37:01 Speaker 3: Hanging out the hang. Right. You’re just the hang the hang. 00:37:04 Rachel: Yeah. All about the hang, but all about like getting chased by dogs in weird places and, um, meeting cool people, weird people, you know, like literally fishing on a flat that’s being destroyed while you’re fishing. It. It’s being filled in. 00:37:20 Speaker 3: Oh, really? 00:37:21 Rachel: Oh, God. Yeah. 00:37:22 Speaker 3: By just development. 00:37:24 Rachel: Yeah, you name it, I did it. And, uh, just driving that cart way up north, you know, towards the, uh, Mexican border, which is amazing. And then last two weeks ago, I had an opportunity to go back there, and I was at a very cool place called Rocky Point Permit Camp. And a guy named Jeff Spiegel owns that. And he put together two weeks where he invited artists and writers to come. And I was in the second week and he invited me and I’m like, oh my God, June, that’s like busy guiding time. I can’t do it. And then I called him that next day. I’m like, I’m doing it because I need to catch a permit on my own. Like that’s my goal. So I went up there. It was amazing. A cool place. If you’re a DIY angler, that is the place to go. But, uh, you know, not for everybody, but that’s what it’s meant to be, right? And yeah, the first week went really well. They had some cool people, some pretty good weather. They caught some fish. And then when we got there, everything went to hell. We had like a tropical depression and terrible weather. Just terrible, but amazing people, unbelievable people. And, uh, that’s where it’s all about the hang. We fished hard. We fished hard. Oh, God. Every day. Everybody fished hard. But it was tough. I mean, you know, no visibility. Uh. Very windy. 00:38:37 Speaker 3: Right? Yeah. How hard is permit fishing? You hear about how hard it is, but how hard has it been for you? 00:38:42 Rachel: Well, permit fishing is just, you know, I’ve again, I’m, I’m sort of a I’m just in the beginning of the voluntary beat down, but it makes steelhead look like, you know, a high numbers game I think. 00:38:54 Speaker 3: Yeah it does. So and you’ve done some steelhead fishing too right. 00:38:57 Rachel: Yeah. I’ve not but only. Yeah. I’m not a great steelhead angler either. But I mean the only benefit to permit voluntary beat down is it’s not that cold. But, you know, it’s just like, for me at least, although I have caught a few, but all with a guide and in a boat, which is awesome. But I mean, really to me, like the ultimate would be to get one on my own, to see it, to cast to it, whatever. But you know, I’m just starting out, so I just but I loved God, I spent oh, I don’t know, I estimated that I spent probably over three hundred hours during that March, February time just looking at water. Right. And, and essentially, what are you doing when you’re doing that kind of fishing? It’s like you’re waiting for a fish to swim by you in the ocean, dude. You know, I mean, you’re walking, you’re looking, but you’re just looking, you know, and, and to me, that was just amazing. And it really like had a lot to do with like, some of the things that I think about in art and my painting, you know, and just kind of like the, the subtleties of the way the light changes, you know, little like variations in color and in shade and whatever. So I was really all about it. And I’m still thinking about it. Even though I’m here in Wilmington, New York, it’s like, and how much observation really is probably your best tool in fishing. And one of the reasons that I’m maybe fairly good at what I do is because I am an artist, I’m a good observer. 00:40:24 Dave: Are you still working on your art? Quite a bit. 00:40:25 Rachel: Well, I’m the laziest artist you’re ever gonna meet. Not something I’m proud of at all. So I’m. I’m trying harder. It’s just, uh. For me, it’s always been. I don’t know, it’s not something that I. I enjoy it, and I know that it’s what I’m meant to do, really, but it’s hard for me to like. I’m just the best procrastinator there is, right? 00:40:48 Dave: What if you had to pick. What if you were your choices go back. Was fly fishing or art. You can only pick one. 00:40:53 Rachel: Oh, dude, that’s not fair. 00:40:56 Dave: Which one’s harder? Which one’s harder, do you think? 00:40:58 Rachel: Oh, art is harder. For sure. 00:41:00 Dave: It is. 00:41:00 Rachel: Oh, yeah. I mean, you try sitting in a room alone all day. You know, for me, I don’t know. It’s always been very, like sort of grappling with myself, you know, I don’t know, I overthink everything, of course, but, uh, I think I’m at my best. And this is true of fishing or art when I’m not thinking so much and I just let it go, you know, I’m more intuitive, you know, I’m more intuitive. And that’s, that’s when I’m at my best guiding for sure. And that’s when I’m at my best with art. But it’s so easy to trip yourself up, you know, and say, oh, I’ve got to go clean that little tray in the toaster oven where the crumbs go instead of like, you know, buckling down. I’m kidding, but I am good procrastinator. So I’m not proud of myself as an artist at all. That’s sort of my one thing I’m gonna well, I’m doing right now, even with oh, because also this is cool. So that Rocky Point permit camp Jeff Spiegel’s starting this cool thing, it’s called fly views. It’s going to be a magazine like without any ads in it. All about writing and art. Yeah, man. So we’re going to have an opportunity to contribute to that. 00:42:07 Dave: Like a real magazine, like a physical magazine. 00:42:09 Rachel: Physical, like paper. And, you know, so that I’m very excited about that. 00:42:14 Dave: That’s cool. Well, now in your artwork, where can people see your artwork right now? 00:42:18 Rachel: Probably on Instagram. I do a lot of weird. My work is all about fishing, right? But it’s not your typical angling art at all. My background is sort of abstraction. I am overeducated, I’m, uh, you know, I don’t know, I like to think about things that, you know, how do I capture something that I experience out there without just illustrating it? Right. Like I’m not going to make a painting called Evening Rise that’s like, uh, an image of a guy. I mean, I love those paintings. You know, but my, one of my favorite artists of all time is Winslow Homer, dude, amazing painter. And he was a big fly fisherman. And he fished up here actually in the Adirondacks, which is really cool. And, um, I don’t know, I’m just sort of, um. Well, I was reminded of this, uh, so there was a painter in the fifties in New York, in the abstract expressionist school called Willem de Kooning, well-known painter. And he’s got a very famous essay, that part of it. He says content is a glimpse. Okay, so what does that mean? What does that mean? Oh, you know what I really like started thinking about that. Of course, I read about it when I was in art school and all that, but when I was fishing in the flats, dude, like, what was that? What did I just, you know, like you see a glimpse of something and then you have to like, do I believe it? You know, I’m not talking about like looking for bunnies in the clouds. 00:43:44 Dave: Okay. Right. 00:43:47 Rachel: I mean, not that there’s anything wrong with that, but, uh, I’m just like, like you have an educated, like, you know what? You know, and you know what you think you saw and you do you trust it? Do you go forward with it? Do I follow that thing or what was. Do I see it again? And that’s so it’s so elusive. Right. I think it’s a little more, uh, tactile in art because I can nail it down and do things. But he was talking about these paintings he made of women and whatever, but, uh, but I just love that idea that content is a glimpse, you know, so but my work sometimes I’ll use, um, so I look at Instagram as kind of like, it’s like my refrigerator bulletin board, like it’s so temporary, right? It’s just like, it’s really sort of unbelievably sad how short our attention span is now as, as a culture, right? So like, you know, everything’s disposable. So I will, uh, use things like images that I create. Then I might take a use my phone to take a photo of it, and then I might put something on top of it and photograph that. So it’s actually not like a physical thing at the end. It’s almost, I believe I probably have been making NFTs for a long time and don’t even let me try and explain what those are because I don’t even know. But whatever. So if somebody says, can I buy that? And I’m like, you know what? Not really, because it doesn’t really exist. It just exists on my phone or on Instagram. Now it’s gone because it was a story thing or whatever. I still can’t figure out like, what the difference between all those things are, but whatever I enjoy, like, you know, as far as like somebody that sits in a room by themselves and makes weird things and then I can put it out there and maybe like twenty seven people look at it and whatever, you know, that’s like, okay, that’s better than nobody looking at it. Terrible marketing skills as an artist. Uh, I got, I lived in New York City for a while. I got my ass kicked. And, um, you know, I, I’m just all of these things I’m saying, yeah, I could work harder due to the, uh. But I’ll tell you what. I’m sixty four years old. I feel like the art that I make now is truly like my work. Like you spend your whole life as an artist, I think. Well, you start off repetition and copying. That’s how you learn, and that’s how you can say this about life in a lot of ways. And then, well, there was a very famous one of my favorite artists of all time, Philip Guston, a painter, famous quote, where he says, when you start a painting, everybody you’ve ever known is in the room with you. Every teacher, every classmate, every artist that you’ve ever read about is in that room with you. And one by one, they leave while you’re making that painting, and then eventually you even leave. And I’m like, okay, I don’t think I’ve left the building quite completely, but I do feel like the pathetic amount of work that I do put out, most of it is very much my own, which is something that I think you can only do when you get older. There are advantages to getting older, you know, not too many, but you know the ability to be more confident about yourself for sure. And, uh, you know, the advantages of being in the fly fishing world and, um, knowing so many people. I’ve been able to do some traveling besides Belize. I go to Argentina, got some great friends down there at set fly fishing, and I host there and, um, I’ve got a trip scheduled to New Zealand this year with a client of mine, and then we’re going to go to the Cook Islands, which is going to be very cool. And then I’m going up to the Gaspé. 00:47:19 Dave: Nice. 00:47:20 Rachel: Gaspé Coastal in, uh, which is an amazing place in Quebec. And you just got back from Atlantic Salmon. Were you swinging two handers? 00:47:27 Dave: Well, we were doing a little both up there. This is, uh, it was Lee Wolfe’s Mountain Waters. So Mountain Waters Resort is the new place, but he used to it was all single hand, but we did have, uh, Calvin had a two hander. I used my two hander. And I think next year we’re actually going to bring Rick Custis is going to be going up with us. And I think he’s going to do like a Spey kind of a space session to kind of help people. Right. And so it’s kind of cool. It’s a mix. It’s two hander and one hander. 00:47:51 Rachel: He’s amazing. He’s such a nice guy. When I first learned to two hand cast. I have terrible two hand casts, by the way. And, uh, which really pisses me off because I’m a pretty decent single hand caster. And this is alive. No excuses anymore because I’m doing it for so long. But you know, I, when I took it up, I’m like, I’m going to crush this, right? And I just suck at it. But I’m just, I push too much. Whatever. You know what? I can catch fish though, and but I need, I need. So Rick was one of the first the first time I learned was him. We went to the Cattaraugus Creek. 00:48:23 Dave: Oh, you did? So you fished the Cattaraugus. Yeah, I fished the Cattaraugus. 00:48:27 Rachel: Yeah, that’s great up there. But we got blown out. And uh, because you know, he was a Scott pro, I’m a Scott pro. We did a little Scott thing and I’ll never forget it. You know, he’s just the most lovely guy. So that was great. That’s great. 00:48:39 Dave: Yeah. Rick’s awesome. So that’s it. So you had so Rick Custer was one of your early Spey mentors. 00:48:44 Rachel: Yeah. But I mean, I just he’d be embarrassed to say that he even taught me anything now if he saw me. But anyways, I, I don’t care. I love it, I absolutely, absolutely love two handed casting and the whole like, I love Steelheading. And even though I’m in the East Coast and say whatever you want about the East Coast, I don’t care. I love steelhead fishing. I love how hard it is. I love how painful it is. I love the whole process, you know, man, and I love it because it reminds me a lot about being an artist, really like kind of like pushing yourself and, you know, like, what am I doing here? You know? And then all of a sudden something happens. You’re like, I know what I’m doing here, you know? Yeah. I mean, so, and I love the, the people that I do it with. And I just love the whole, I mean, when’s the last time you cast a nymph rig and went. Yeah, never. Right. And when you cast a two handed rod, I don’t even care if you catch anything or not. It’s just a beautiful thing. Right. Well, I don’t know if it’s a beautiful thing when I do it, but whatever, I enjoy it. So, uh, that’s that fishing is for me, you know? And I love having, like, my own fishing. 00:49:50 Dave: That’s awesome. Well, a podcast you should check out. I love promoting other podcasts, the River Rambler. 00:49:56 Rachel: Oh, yeah. I talked to Richard. He’s awesome. 00:49:58 Dave: Oh you do? Yeah. So Richard’s from he’s an artist and he’s from I originally your area, I think, and he’s moved out west. Right. 00:50:04 Rachel: Well, now he’s back east. 00:50:06 Dave: Oh, he’s back east. He’s back. 00:50:07 Rachel: Lovely guy. I so enjoyed talking to him and, uh, would love to someday meet him. And, uh, he’s a terrific painter. 00:50:14 Dave: He is. Right. Yeah, he’s he’s got some skills. Well, this is great, Rachel. I think that I was going to take it out of here today with our we talked conservation this segment. I just wanted to give a big shout out again to Patagonia. Their swift current waders. We talked about that at the start. And I just want to get maybe from you. Let’s talk a couple of tips on fishing. We mentioned you know the Ausable obviously. Let’s say somebody heading to the Ausable. What are a couple things you’re telling them? And are you mostly focusing on dry fly fishing? It sounds like are you mixing things up a little bit? 00:50:43 Rachel: Well, I love dry fly fishing and the Ausable is known, I would say for the Ausable, like don’t give up on the dry fly. It’s not because of the nature of the water being fast. Most of it, especially the fast water. If you’re going to fish the fast water, fish a dry fly more than you think you would because the takes are very impulsive. And, uh, don’t be afraid to move the fly. You know, depending on where you’re coming from, you’re coming from the Delaware River where everything’s a dead drift downstream past feed, feed, feed here. Skitter the hell out of it, dude. And I’ll tell you what, you’ll probably move a fish making a bad men when your fly skitters across the water and then say, huh? Okay, maybe I should move the fly. So I always like to move the give it a little twitch or whatever, especially in the fast water here. And, uh, you know, it’s all about line control here as well in the fast water. And you don’t need to cast five hundred feet and, uh, you know, try and think about just like sort of easy answers to that, like, keep your line off the water. You know, you’re, you’re, you’re fishing thirty feet away. But there’s six different currents between you and that other thirty feet. So like, you know, use the extension of your arm. You use the extension of the rod. I will nymph I don’t enjoy it as much. I really enjoy the dry fly thing. 00:52:02 Dave: Yeah, yeah. If you got somebody new out there that can’t, you know, they’re brand new. Do you get that sometimes you get some people that are newer to it. 00:52:09 Rachel: All the time. All the time. So, uh, you know, it’s fun to, to get people excited about fly fishing, you know, and I like to start people with a dry fly, even if it’s not because then they get to see like what’s happened, you know, like, I don’t really love indicator fishing. You know, it’s very effective in the right situations. I will do some Euro nymphing now, many people have just turned this off. 00:52:34 Dave: Right? No, we love Eurhodope. We’re your nymphing fans. 00:52:38 Rachel: Very effective in pocket water. And I find it more like intellectually challenging than, uh, than staring at a bobber. But that’s okay. But whatever I like to. I love beginners because, you know, it’s you’re sharing something so great with them. You know, it’s like, hey, I’m going to tell you this big secret that I’ve known for a really long time. Like I had a really nice guy the other day, retired guy who lost his wife a couple of years ago, and she had bought him a bunch of fly fishing stuff and it sat there and he was in, you know, in a dark period there after she went and he looked at the stuff and he’s like, oh, I’m gonna, you know, she bought this for me. I’m going to go learn this, you know, and, uh, you know, he had done a couple little short classes and I was kind of one of his first and fished by himself, but I was like the guy he’d been out with and geez, we had a great time. And, uh, you know, got to show him a bunch of different techniques, you know, and, um, he had a pretty good skill set, which was great. And, you know, we caught some fish and, uh, I don’t know, just a good energy man. Beginners have good energy, you know, you just have to remember that. Just don’t take it too seriously. It is supposed to be fun, right? So. Exactly. 00:53:49 Dave: Exactly. No. Well, dry flies is huge. I think that’s cool to to hear that you’re yeah, you get people started early on that because I feel like, you know, we all evolve and fly fishing, but it seems like dry fly. Anything on the surface, right where you’re seeing the fish come up, no matter what species it feels like. That’s the top right? It feels like that’s the ultimate thing. I don’t know. 00:54:07 Rachel: Oh my God, if I could like catch a permit on a floating crab, I could die the next day. I think. 00:54:14 Dave: I know. 00:54:15 Rachel: Right? 00:54:15 Dave: Yeah. The floating crab would be cool. 00:54:17 Rachel: I’ve never. Have you ever done that? 00:54:19 Dave: No. But we’ve we Atlantic salmon fishing where we went, they were all dry. They were on the surface. So we were watching and I was missing fish. Right. You’re like, oh my God, I just so I mean, that was a big thing about going there is that like, literally we were having to set the hook on Atlantic salmon. 00:54:33 Rachel: You were skating flies. 00:54:35 Dave: Yeah. Well we weren’t. Yeah. Skate. It was the riffle hitch. The Portland hitch. 00:54:38 Rachel: Yeah. Oh you were gonna riffle. I was gonna say were you riffle hitching. Cool. 00:54:41 Dave: Yeah. We riffle hitching it. So it was riffle. So the fly so you could see the fly riffling across. But then we also got him on bombers. So we were fishing like full on bomber style. But it was the ultimate. 00:54:50 Rachel: Oh, that’s so cool. I fished, uh, last year in Gaspé. The water was super, super, super, super low. Right. Nobody had caught anything. I mean, so low you could see these fish. And, um, we were. So I was all excited to fish a two handed rod, which we did not because it would have spooked everything. We had single hand. So I, I remember we did drift a bomber. The water wasn’t fast at all. Right. So I remember just throwing this fly and the guide was just this lovely guy named Alex. And he’s like, all I wanted to do was mend it, right? Because my brain, my trout brain is going mend it, mend it. He’s like, don’t touch it, don’t touch it. And I’m like, oh, oh, I can’t, you know, it was horrible. Nothing happened. I did though, this is crazy. So my husband Jeff was also a guide and an angler and he was up on the Bonaventure. This was on the Bonaventure. Oh, I don’t know, fifteen years ago with his buddy. And they they caught some beautiful fish with David Bishop, actually. So whatever. I have some great photos of that. So Jeff was cremated. I have his ashes. I’m looking at them right now. They’re in his, uh, marijuana container, which. 00:55:55 Dave: Is, uh. 00:55:56 Rachel: Christmas Tupperware thing with Holly on it. Anyways, every time I go somewhere, I take some with me and especially up there because I know he had been there. Right? 00:56:06 Dave: Oh that’s cool. 00:56:07 Rachel: So I put some ashes in the water and an hour later I caught a grilse, which is not, you know, I mean, yeah, an immature salmon, but I was that nobody had caught anything there. 00:56:17 Dave: Yeah, but Grilse are still adult Grilse are still adult fish, right? Yeah. 00:56:20 Rachel: Yeah, it was cool. I mean, are you kidding? I was ecstatic. I mean. 00:56:23 Dave: Yeah, I mean, they could be up to like six pounds or more somewhere in there, right? Yeah. 00:56:27 Rachel: It was beautiful. And it’s just such a I love, uh, just the visuals up there. The Gaspé is so beautiful. So I’m excited for their having a killer early season. And unless we see a huge drought, we should be set up for pretty decent. I mean, August is not prime time, but whatever, I don’t care. So I’m doing that with Lori Ann and we’re hosting a bunch of women up there. We’ll have. 00:56:50 Dave: A nice. 00:56:51 Rachel: Full lodge of women. And I love what’s happening with women in fly fishing. You know, that was not happening when I started. And just the best thing ever. And I’ve met just some of the most unbelievable people. And, uh, have you interviewed, uh, Heather Hodson? 00:57:06 Dave: Oh, yeah. Yeah, Heather’s a friend of the podcast. We’ve had her on a couple times at least. 00:57:10 Rachel: She’s great, man. 00:57:12 Dave: Yeah. Heather’s awesome. 00:57:13 Rachel: All the people involved with her are just incredible. And it’s just, it’s, that makes warms my heart, you know, and that’s also something I want to try and give more time to as well is I, I’ve been a little selfish with my time, but trying to be better. I guess that’s all you can do, right? 00:57:28 Dave: Yeah. Give back, give back. No, this is awesome. Well, Rachel, this has been an awesome conversation. Again, we’re definitely going to have to follow up with you and get another one down the line. But we’ll send everybody out to hungry trout dot com to follow up with you and on social media there. But yeah, Rachel, thanks again for all your time. This has been great and we’ll keep in touch with you. 00:57:46 Rachel: All right. Thanks, Dave. 00:57:48 Dave: Before we get out of here today, here’s one more takeaway from this conversation. The better you are at observation, the better you will be as a fly angler. If you want to join Fly Swing Pro, you can do that right now at fly swing dot com slash pro. And we’re going to get out of here right now. Hope you enjoy. I hope you enjoy this podcast. I hope you enjoyed this one and hope you can catch us on the next one. Check in with me anytime, Dave at fly dot com, and I hope you’re having a good evening, morning or afternoon and we will see you on the next episode. We’ll talk to you then. 00:58:17 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly Swing Fly Fishing Show. For notes and links from this episode, visit Wet Fly swing dot com.