Trevor Covich shares his story of how came to be a full time Olympic Peninsula Steelhead fly fishing guide splitting his time between the Olympic Peninsula and Alaska.  We dig into the story of how the Olympic Peninsula changed into a big swing game and how you can find big fish and quiet waters even as pressure increases. 

We find out who Perry was and why the poke is such a key cast to know when fishing tight waters.  Lots of great tips for the OP with a focus on fishing higher water with short rods and unweighted flies.

Click below and listen the Olympic Peninsula Steelhead Podcast with Trevor Covich:

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Bonus A-Z Winter Steelhead Gear Checklist:

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Olympic Peninsula Steelhead Show Notes:

05:50 – John Covich is the guy behind Fly Water Travel for Cuba and was a big influence in getting Trevor into fly fishing.

06:50 – Creekside Angling was the local shop that held fly tying classes and is the place where Trevor got started.

14:50 – Trevor talked about the changes with Jerry French coming into the area.  Jerry was on the podcast in episode 139.

17:51 – We noted Bruce Kruk who is the long belly guy in the upper Columbia.

23:50 – Trevor still uses the OPST lines but used the skagit flight in the past.  He likes the OPST commando head with a 12’ 9” rod. 

37:45 – We talk about Nick Rowell and the Deschutes.  

40:45 – We note the Air Flo FIST which is a great line that sticks to the water and is a great chinook line.

44:00 – The Guide Fly is Trevor’s basic goto pattern.

50:00 – The Dirty Hoh flies from Jerry French.

52:00 – George Cook was on the podcast in episode 131 – Trevor describes how George got the spey rod first into his hands.

54:10 – Charles St. Pierre was known as the doctor and would smooth out your spey cast.

1:01:40 – John McMillan was on the podcast in episode 117 + he has his own podcast here as part of the Barbless network.

1:05:45 – Waters West is the local fly shop in the area.

You can find Trevor here trevor_covich on insta or opflyguy@gmail.com

Top Ten Olympic Peninsula Steelhead Tips

1. Get out on the river when river isn’t perfect to separate yourself
2. Change with the change in the traveling lane
3. Use a shorter rod to avoid chopping would with your rod
4. Slow rolling fish are the biters
5. Use the Perry Poke in tight quarters
6. Start short and fish your feet
7. Every eat from a steelhead is different
8. Use unweighted flies with the right tip
9. Fish deeper into the tail out – Fish 10 more after you want to quit
10. Diamond chop – Find the chop, find the cover and find the fish

The Two best Spey Line Tips for the Op

1. The 5 and 5 of T11 – These are the mow tips.  These tips are 10 feet long.  This is 5 feet of floating and 5 feet of sinking.
2. 2.5 floating and 7.5 foot sinking section of T14 – This is a good all around tip for the OP.

Olympic Peninsula Steelhead Resources

The Commando head from OPST

Air-Flo FIST Line

Olympic Peninsula Steelhead Videos

The Upstream Perry Poke by Trevor 

The Guide Fly by Trevor 

Read the Full Transcript with Trevor Covich:

Click here: Trevor Covich Podcast Transcript to get the Full PDF Transcript

or continue reading below……..

Trevor 0:00
And finally he looks over at me. He goes, you know, Trevor I, I suck at golf, too, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean I don’t like to play, you know that it opened my eyes to a lot of things. It’s like, you know, it’sYeah, you, you don’t have to be you got you just have to enjoy what you’re doing. You know, I suck at golf but every now and then I put a really good shot

Dave S 0:24
and that was Trevor kovas describing why you don’t have to be an expert spake caster to find success with steelhead fishing. For some reason I never get tired of a good steelhead jet. This is the wet fly swing fly fishing show.

Unknown Speaker 0:38
Welcome to the wet fly swing fly fishing show where you discover tips, tricks and tools from the leading names in fly fishing. today. We’ll help you on your fly fishing journey with classic stories covering steelhead fishing, fly tying and much more.

Dave S 0:54
Hey, how’s it going, everyone thanks for stopping by the fly fishing show today. Trevor kovitch one of the best known steelhead On the Opie is here to share some tips on finding fish during high water. This is one of the one of the best shows we’ve had and one of the first ones on the Opie so this is going to be good to dig into it today, we find out how to tell if a steelhead is ready to bite by how it rolls in the water. What diamond shop is all about in the best place to find fish that most people are skipping. This one is definitely jam packed with some value bombs. So please share it with one other person today. And without further ado, here’s Trevor kovitch. How’s it going, Trevor?

Trevor 1:35
Everything’s good here. Just just waking up some coffee in Washington.

Dave S 1:40
That’s right. That’s right. Where are you? Where are you at Washington?

Trevor 1:43
Well, I’m based out of forks which is generally where I run my my winter steelhead business. And then usually at this time I’m I’m up in Alaska, and of course through the virus and everything is going on this year. A lot of seasons have been canceled. sold all over Alaska So, so I’m kind of sitting this one out it’s the first time and and 17 seasons I’ve never I’ve never gone up so it’s a huge change so you just changed it to put it lightly

Dave S 2:12
well as the reason that you’re not going up there just some lodgest chose to close down in some Lodges are staying open.

Trevor 2:20
Yeah, absolutely. And then like I work you know I work for a couple different lodges but the first one is ran by a native Corporation and they they really are. They stand they tend to be really cautious on these things. You know, and then also we have a lot of clientele that’s that’s generally older, the majority of our clientele is older so just just to play it safe, they bowed out, you know of the Chinook season and then the mid season also bowed out as well because there you work next to a native village in Canada And then, you know, and then the the village itself, the elders didn’t want a lot of outside folks coming in which which is understandable. So they, they, they made sure there was no operations running there.

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Dave S 3:13
So there you go. Yeah, that’s that’s probably the probably the smart move given, given where we’re at things are kind of spiking a little bit again, we’re in.

Trevor 3:20
It’s going up, especially in up there, you know what I mean? It was it was starting to creep down to where I thought that that things were gonna, that things were going to go and then all of a sudden said just it kind of switched and then they pulled the plug on.

Dave S 3:34
Yeah. Okay. Well, well, we’ll probably dig into a little bit of that as we go. I wanted to, you know, we’ll probably talk about I guess, the OP and I mean, you kind of split it between the OP and the Alaska is that pretty much how you do it.

Trevor 3:47
That’s pretty much that’s what I do. Now. You know, I I used to travel around a lot when I was younger, and i i missed I miss being in the Northwest. You know, and I missed seeing my, my family you know, if you’re if you’re always traveling, you’re never you never seen your folks and then they they, every time you see them when you get off a plane, they’re physically older. So I eventually quit going around to a bunch of places and I started my guide business out in forks, which is a place that I’ve been steel efficient for a while. Like I was steel had been out here for for like seven price seven years, you know, when I was when I was a teenager and then and loved it. And so I just do that pretty much. Like November is kind of an off month for me but like I start guiding in December down here, and then it goes all the way through April. So it’s a it’s a wet it’s a cold, wet disease. That’s awesome.

Dave S 4:51
Yeah, yeah, that’s right. I was just talking to somebody yesterday on a call. I was doing a little coaching call with somebody. I’ve got another podcast that I do, and And he’s in North Carolina and he is fishing. He’s a guide out there for you know, fish in North Carolina but he’s got a friend that just moved out from Portland and he was talking about steelhead and he’s got the steelhead bug now so he’s he’s jacked up and especially now that we’re getting into a little summer steelhead action, that’s good, but well we’re gonna take it away. Let’s let’s take it Take us back a little bit. So we’re gonna get into the space and and kind of all the micro and everything around space, but how did you get into fly fishing start us off there. Well, I was

Trevor 5:31
my father and my uncles were were outdoorsman. My dad was more of a a gear guy. Love the saltwater. My uncle, john kovitch. He, he runs the Cuba side of fly water travel. He’s the guy who really put a flier on my hand and he he would take my brother and I fishing for like a week, a week or two Every summer to some place and then I remember I think I was six years old when when I finally put when I finally started actually casting a fly rod my dad my dad would put me on his flow tube in the lake and you know he he’d fish around and then when you’d hook a fish he let me reel it in or or a troll me around or whatever and it wasn’t wasn’t telling met or not met but when john started taking my brother and I, we really started kind of hiking around and learning how to properly cast and present flies and stock fish and, and tie flies, you know, like, like john john was the guy who he bought me these these two Randall Kaufman fly tying books. One was a nymph book, one was a was a dry fly book. And so I just those were my, I mean, that was my instruction there, you know, and then I also did some through that there was a local fly shop that I where I grew up in is a call Washington It was called Creekside angling. And the owners Pete Corbett and Hugh passerines they were they would hold these fly tying classes. And it’d be me and like three or four other kids in there in the evening and we tie wooly buggers and Mickey fans and, and pretty much whatever else but it was just the basics. Pretty much it’s cool, then it kind of just went on from there. You know?

Dave S 7:25
That’s really cool. So yeah, you got kind of a family I mean, and john, your uncle is still see over it. Still fly water.

Trevor 7:32
Yeah, he’s still fly water, you know, and then he’s repping a, you know, a couple other things as well. But what he what he really loves to do is, is take people down to Cuba, and then you know, his photography and his drone stuffs really good. Cool. And then of course, he’s got two sons, that her you know, kind of one just graduated once about two and then his son just got a job Up, up in North this year and one of the places that are still operating, just he’s he’s kicking ass so he’s just loving.

Dave S 8:06
There you go, you guys. Sounds like you guys got a little a little kovatch flyfishing dynasty going on?

Trevor 8:11
Um, it’s, uh, it will No, it’s just it’s just, I don’t know if it’s in our DNA but, but it drives us forward. It’s really it’s just a fun. It’s a fun way of life. Yeah, you know? Yeah, not easy, but it is, but it is fun.

Dave S 8:25
Yeah, that’s, that’s cool. Let’s go. Okay, so yeah, I guess it started now, you know, well, let’s just take it back. So you’re kind of you know, you sounds like you’ve been fly fishing. You know, good luck your life. I mean, now you’re the kind of opia Alaska How did you know I mean, that’s it did you grow up out there up and

Trevor 8:43
so, my father bought into this small piece of property out in a place called CQ Washington, which is right on the Strait of Juan de Fuca. And, and it was right on the CQ river and he went in on a piece of property with three of his buddies. He’s from Boeing. They were all Boeing mechanics. And they were all saltwater guys. And so we’d go out fish and you know, we got five in the morning, go fish now in the saltwater and then come back. And we’d be we’d be limited out by, you know, nine or 10. Well, then we had the whole rest of the day to do stuff. Well, the CQ river was right there, you know. And so my brother and I would blow up our float tubes at the time, and then we’d go paddle around here. And it’s like, it’s like a tidal slew. Oh, and then we go fish, sea run cutthroat, and then every now and then there was a silver and I remember one time my brother, he was skating. It was a stimulator and I think I can’t remember how old we were but and then a summer steelhead actually grabbed a stimulator and this one, we were just little kids and we still we had no idea what it was. We just figured it was a salmon. And then, and so that was kind of a summer thing. You know? And then one time, we had to go do some work out there. And it was in it was in December, and I went in you know, went up looking up the road and stuff like that kind of just looking for cutthroat trout and I was with my cousin. And, and I had a, I just had a trout rod. And I just remember throwing out there and and next thing I knew I had something, something really big on and it was it was just it was working me you know what I mean? And took me under a log jam came back out went back in the log jam. And finally, I screwed it up on the on the sand and it was a it was probably 1213 pound wild steelhead, well, it was a hand gnosis and I was sitting there, I was sitting there going and I think I was I think I was 12 or 13 at this time. And and that was the moment I kind of knew that I wasn’t going to be doing any more snowboarding You know, you know what I mean? Yeah. And, and so and so that was kind of the, you know, that was that was the spark. And so when I got my driver’s license, I would try and find any way possible to go out there. So me and a couple buddies would every now and then we did school, you know, on Friday and then head over for a long weekend. Um, you know, and then and then we just read fish for steelhead. And it was awesome. I mean, it was really good and that and, you know, kind of a common trend now. That river, you know, which was really awesome. Of course, it’s not so awesome anymore. It’s the point where it’s, it’s, I want to go fish it but I don’t fish it anymore. You know, just because it’s not it’s not even close to what it used to be and, and where my where my deck situated is right in front of like there’s there’s probably three nets there’ll be right out front, so It’s just like and so now it’s more of a vacation spot. You know, I’ve been taking my girlfriend and one of her friends out there and we’ve just been trout fishing lately but my main my main thing now is so I bought a house in forks and so I operate right here and I’ve got rivers a stone’s throw away from me so it’s really easy for me to go go take guys to wherever I want and then I’ve got a downstairs where I keep my clients cold and most parts so they can just roll in I don’t get to go pick them up at a hotel so it makes it really easy

Dave S 12:35
Listen, what’s the How is the the winter steelhead season there this year on the Opie

Trevor 12:40
Oh, it was good. You know, every every year is different and then everybody’s gonna have their own their own outlook on what they would feel good is you know, the winter steelhead thing, especially the winter stick still out here, especially if you’re swinging to fly is is extremely tough, you know, just the fish move on in weird ways out here, you know what I mean? They don’t, they don’t sit still for long. And then you have you have the constant changing of weather and, and water conditions. Like, I’ll just, I’ll just, I’ll just give you this, this season’s example of what they’re so I lost the majority of January out here because of big water, you know, constantly blown out the I mean, there were pictures of the, the quilly like, and the bogus shell overflow and that whole lower end of the road down there was totally swamp with water, you know, and then of course, the power goes out, and then February comes along. February is a great month. So you get some mixed rain, good water conditions, and then March came along. And march was, was like it does sometimes there’s barely any rain, you know, and I mean, and so what it does is it stuffs fish up in certain places, and so on. And so depending on the time of year, and then the water flow it depends on kind of where I’m going to be with my clients you know and so the rivers change

Dave S 14:11
yeah and that’s the cool thing about the O p is that there’s a number of different rivers and depending on the condition and how things are going you can adjust accordingly right that’s exactly how do you find guys what percentage of guys out there do you find just for fly fishing that are nip nip fishing versus you know versus swinging?

Well it used to be it used to be really one sided You know, there was you know, there wasn’t many swing guys there was some some swing guys out here but not really swing guides, you know, and then but the majority were, were you got you got your gear guys and then you got nippers that would slowly infant then they would then some guys would do some swing. And then it wasn’t until like when when Jerry Brown ferencz started putting in a full campaign out here and started to be really successful. You know, and since then also still, you know, taking this beatings, like, like most steelheaders do, you know, but like, Jerry was the guy who opened my eyes to a lot of stuff like I thought it was a pretty good steelhead fisherman when I met Jerry, then Jerry, French was the guy who got me thinking about things a little, little differently. And then also, especially with the flight time, too, you know, he’s just, he’s, he’s, he’s the master when it comes to that kind of stuff. But he really got me thinking about, about where they’re sitting, how long they’re sitting, you know, stuff like that. But I would say that in the last three to four years, the swing, the swing contingent has gone up tenfold. Like now there’s like it used to be me and Jerry, and then You know, one or two other guys, and now there’s, there’s a whole bunch of new, you know, swing guides out here. And so and so that so the, the pressure kind of that, you know, it just gets, it just gets more and more pressure. And so I have to start doing things that are a little more crafty, you know, just to try and kind of get away from people sometimes. But every now and then you end up on a stretch of river and you’re all by yourself because everybody decided to go to the same boat launch on a certain river and some other places left totally empty, empty. It’s really cool.

So there were a few guides back in the day and now there’s more I mean, do you know all these guys pretty much do talk to all these guys? You know, 10?

Trevor 16:41
Yes, no, I, I try. I try and have a really good rapport with people just in case. A You got it. You got to get along with people that you work around, or else it’s not going to be fun for anybody be if you get in trouble, and you need help or vice versa, like, yeah, it’s good to have friends and so You know I try and talk to everybody and of course I have a main core group of buddies out here that that you know swing flies that I share I would share information with and a couple gear guys that are they’re good friends of mine. But you know we stay pretty pretty zipper lipped when it comes to to share and that kind of stuff. Ross Ross Oh yeah. Somebody will be there the next day so that’s

Dave S 17:25
right that’s that’s good I had I’ll put a link in the show notes I had Jerry French on recently and I pretty much I’ve had a number of kind of the big names in the space game on you know in your your name that’s been popping around there. I just you know, finally got getting on here to talk about this. So that’s that’s great. I can’t remember who I connected with recently that mentioned mentioned your name, but you know, there’s all sorts of ways to do it. Right. You got the long, long, long bill. I just had Bruce Kruk on who was talking all about the long belly lines, right.

Trevor 17:55
He’s the Is he the guy who’s in the upper Columbia.

Dave S 17:58
Yeah.

Trevor 18:00
Okay, yeah, I look at this stuff on I think it’s either Facebook or Instagram that water looks awesome. One day

Dave S 18:06
Yeah, I know he’s a he’s a big and we talked a little about the Clearwater and all that stuff but I think all those guys I mean the Opie is such a amazing place I think everybody it’s on their list right each year they’re probably heading down that way so it sounds like and as it gets busier, you know, what are the tips for you know, I mean for somebody who’s out there trying to find more of a remote experience any any tips there?

Trevor 18:29
Well, if you’re if you’re willing to get out and and, and hike around, if you’re really if you’re trying to get away from people, I mean, you might want to stick to maybe, you know, there’s some, there’s some smaller streams out here you could go look at but the thing is, is like you got to be if you want to get away from people, you got to fish in the conditions that are not favorable. That’s the one that’s the that’s the one thing that that separates the good anglers and the good guides from the From the weekenders, okay? Meaning, meaning some of my best days here, and some of the days where I catch my biggest fish here are when the water is extremely high, because what it does when the waters really high Well, two things have happened right? So the waters high and fishable chances are a couple days before was pretty muddy. Okay, meaning nobody’s fishing, there’s no nets and because all the logs get stuffed up in the nets, right and so nobody’s fishing. So once it gets back into shape, fish are generally going to be sitting in places because they’ve come in and they haven’t been messed with at all. The big fish thing what happens? So if a river is low fish, those big fish have to be in certain lies, right to feel safe. When the waters high it’s a it’s an open freeway and what it does is it sucks those fish really close the bank. And then some of the biggest fish have ever taken out here with clients have been, have been within five to 10 feet back when the water is giant, meaning like and when the water giant you’ve got a you’ve got a swing run that is let’s say it’s usually let’s say it’s 35 to 40 yards. Well now it’s 10 to 15 yards. Because if you go down too far, you’re gonna you’re gonna start floating, you know, so it’s that that’s, that’s why this this whole season down here is what I call my Super Bowl because it’s it’s the hardest it’s the hardest guiding I do all year just having to doing the mental gymnastics around the conditions and knowing where I should be at what time of year and then what spots are going to be swinging at this flow versus that flow. Okay, and then and then you’ve got guys who who you know who are fishing around you and then you you know what spots those guys like So like, if I’m on a, for example, if I’m on a, on a run of water with my buddy grace Drew’s Nick, like, I’m gonna be talking to him and ask him where he’s gonna be going versus where I’m gonna be going. That way we can line our days out and then not be stepping on each other’s toes. And then that way, both of all of our clients get good shots and fish so

Dave S 21:24
that’s great. That’s a good tip there so basically fishing the inside water. What lines would you be is if the water is really high, you know, and you’re talking about so the water blows out it’s muddy and then it’s just coming soon as it comes down. It is getting that the muds gone but it’s still you can only see maybe a foot that’s the way you’re talking about but it’s still

Trevor 21:41
Yeah, well, I mean, it’s still raging so you can’t you like in a lot of people will be like will tell you that you got to go super light, which in some spots, you absolutely should. But the problem is sometimes when the waters when the waters up, it’s also got some more flow going to it. Okay, and so You kind of get a hold it in there and so sometimes I’m using I’m still using you know 10 to 12 feet at 14 other times I’m using five and five it’s, it’s it all changes with the spots okay? And then when the waters up like that and slightly offset I mean I’m using a foot a leader, we’re not we’re not going we’re not doing four foot leaders I rarely go I rarely go above four feet and then I’m a 20 or nothing guy. Meaning if it’s not 20 pound test, I don’t want it on your sink tip at all. Not even close because for a few reasons. First reason is like some of my clients are supernovas casters, right okay, so there it’s flying out there funny and then sometimes there’s gonna be there’s gonna be some knots that show up some that I’m that I didn’t see, you know, or else I would have to check it like every other cast or keep changing Their leader and official busta official bust 15 pounds with a win not but but what I would and so what I tell people or what I show them in the boat is I’ll take 15 pound test and I’ll take 20 pound test and I’ll tie when not in it, and I’ll try and I’ll go break this one and then try and break that one. So you prepare for the fish that you want to catch versus the fish you’re probably going to catch because the really big fish that are out here they just show up and you’ve got it and you just got to be ready because your next cast could be the biggest fish of your life and then you’re Fishing Guides life out here. You know, you just never know when it’s gonna happen. So so we’re prepared

Dave S 23:43
what so if you’re fishing that say again, you’re at the high water, you’re fishing a T 14 something pretty heavy, what and what line are used Are you are you kind of doing all the old PST stuff.

Trevor 23:54
Well, I used to do a lot of that stuff I’ve been I’ve been gravitating and trying out some some ads Sa lines but it’s been it’s it’s pretty early in the stages of that I still I still like the the LPS t lines it’s it’s yeah you know it’s what I really started on as far as the the the shorter lines you know before that it was a it was a scheduled flight but the commando head is what what opened up a lot of different things for me especially on the single hand side you know to

Dave S 24:28
are you in are you what can you maybe you can just walk us through again just for an example let’s just think of that high water you’re on the OP and you know your fish one of those higher you know, the rivers way up at what rod are using wait and just talk about that just generally.

Trevor 24:42
So So for the most part on the anywhere on the peninsula, I use a I use a 12 foot nine wait. That’s that’s the thing I used to use a 12 and a half but as I’ve as I fish more and as I get older, I start going on gravitating towards shorter rods, it’s gotten shorter and shorter and shorter since I started spey casting. So I’m going to use a 12 foot nine wait just in case because like for example in the waters high and let’s say you’re on the sole duck river, well the sole duck river doesn’t have these broad these broad gravel bars, okay, so you’re going over big rocks, you got logs coming out and then you’ve got, you know, a bunch of grass and trees. And so I want to be able to put my anchor way out there and I want to be able to make a fishable cast with with minimal effort. Okay, and then also went with the water being up being up and then being offset now I’m going to throw I’m going to throw a monstrosity, I’m going to throw a monstrosity of a fly just because I wanted to see it and then I want I want you to my clients to be able to hold their their flying long enough to where they can get a good look at it. And then sometimes that means also holding it down below you for for a few seconds because there’s there’s plenty of current and said some of these fish will be right next to the bank. But it’s all it’s all 12 foot tall 12 footers for me, but most of my clients will bring out 1313 two, you know? Or does the general

Dave S 26:19
Yeah, that’s the typical Yeah, so the advantage of the 12 foot versus a 13 What is the advantage there if you’re in that situation?

Trevor 26:27
Well, you’re not going to be chopping wood as much. That’s that that’s the main thing. Okay, you got all these low hanging tree branches. I mean, every time you every time you smack your rod on it, you know, it takes the life of your rod down a notch you know, and then you know, and then you’re always wondering in the back of your mind when what cast is it going to be or is it going to be when you go sit on that fish that you really want to get in and now you’ve got half a rod. But But no, it’s mainly just being able to put your anchor where you want to okay with the with the with the shorter rock I can end in a shorter line I can, I can place my anchor exactly where I want to, I can poke way out. And if I didn’t, when I poke out if it didn’t get out as far as I want to, I’ll just compose come around again and poke out further. And then I’ll just do a roll cast when I’m when I’m really when everything’s really tight. But mainly it’s just doing it’s just mainly doing nice fishable cast. That’s the next thing fishable cast not not casting as far as you can every single time. Like it’s silly to me, it actually drives me nuts. It drives a lot of people nuts out here, especially if you’re if you’re guiding. Everybody wants to cast a long line. I mean, it’s it’s fun. It’s it looks super cool. But if you really want to catch fish, you’re gonna make good presentation. And you’re gonna you’re gonna search as many spots as you can.

Dave S 27:53
Yeah. You had that conversation with Bruce Kruk. He was talking about fishing. His water which actually it is advantage of casting way out there because there’s some of those absolutely are further out and he and he’s also a spray he’s at the spill rim and that’s a whole different thing you know those guys are just you know they just

Trevor 28:13
it’s a whole nother can of worms yeah yeah well yeah exactly but you know here and I’m sure it’s a it’s a it’s a vantage up here but what people don’t factor in here is the traveling lane. Okay that the traveling lane is is just as important as the holding water and sometimes said they’re right there right at your feet. That’s where they’re moving

Dave S 28:35
right in next to the basically right in next to the bank a lot kind of within that

Trevor 28:39
off your rod tip Yeah, right right up your rod tip and then the and then the the traveling lane changes. That’s the next thing whereas the river rises and falls you got to be able to to rise and fall with it. Okay, meaning the traveling lanes can be here at this CFS at 3500 CFS and it’s going to be over here at 1250 Okay, so if you don’t if you’re not on top of that you’re gonna be you’re gonna be out of it

Dave S 29:07
and how are you learning again you obviously are up there every day and stuff but if if somebody is new their first time the OPI they’re heading up to whatever river and and it’s one of these rivers that’s changing quite a bit you know how are they you know and how do you do it right the river changes how do you find that new that new Lane?

Trevor 29:24
Oh it’s time time on the water Yeah, it’s all time on the water and it’s and it’s going out when you don’t you you don’t feel confident going out. Like I said when the waters when the waters messed up. Every day. You put your boat in or you go fishing, it should be it should be a learning experience. Okay, so you’d like I’ll be when not when I’m guiding for example, I’m not just watching my clients. I’m watching other parts of the river below me. Right? I’ve got binoculars as well, but I’m looking for rolling fish in certain places that I’ve seen him roll before you know And then like for example, you know, out here, there’s there’s a slower roll and there’s a faster roll. Okay? The faster rolls are the fish that are that are really moving, they’re pushing other other rolls or we’re Fisher are kind of like stuck in a spot and they’re just kind of holding and then and generally rollers are eaters, okay? Because the first thing about you know, steelhead fishing is knowing that they’re there you can fish all the best water in the world and if your timings not right, and there’s no fish there, you’re not going to catch anything. And that’s the thing that discourages a lot of people out here is they get to a great piece of water, they fish it they catching that and they go back the next day they fished again, maybe a little differently catch nothing and so they go You know what, there’s nothing here. Well, on the third day when they should have gone back, there’s probably a fish there. Mm hmm. You know, and that’s and that’s why I say time on the water

Dave S 30:53
time on the water. So is that the tip so basically, instead of instead of going out and fishing, you know, six different pieces of water maybe if you had to Three or four day trip just stay on that one section maybe that few miles section,

Trevor 31:04
you should find a couple really good spots that you like and stick to them and then if you stick to them it’s like a you know, it’s like a slot machine you pull it out enough Okay, it’s gonna it’s gonna hit but but it really is time on the water and and the reason that I’ve had the success that I’ve had out here is because of all the days that I’ve spent catching nothing and learning and being so miserable, you know, putting gas in my truck hiking through brush, you know tearing my waders and then in unfavorable conditions and and the guys that are really successful out here the guys that put in their time there’s definitely some luck involved as well like like like most fishing, but but the guys that that do well out here the guys that put their time in and they and they’ve been they’ve struggled everybody out here. If you’ve ever wanted to fly has struggled There are guys that I know that are that that think they’re really awesome great fishermen and they come out here and they just they get whooped it’s not it’s not a favorable place but if you put your time and you learn like you’re gonna see some pretty cool stuff and not to mention you just look around you it’s a visual masterpiece there really is

Dave S 32:23
because maybe paint that picture well let’s get into the visual masterpiece in a second but I want to take it back to the Perry Polk right you’re talking about can you describe the Perry if Perry was a perfect Oh, who Perry was and it talks about described the Perry Pope for somebody who’s never seen that cast and while you’re doing

Trevor 32:40
well, I guess the Perry poke apparently was was made up from guys that like you know, blew their anchor set, you know what I mean? And so they would just dump down. So a lot of times when, for example, if you’re trying to set your anchor below you and let’s say you come up a little too strong your and your flag goes whizzing by you stream, well, then you can just take your rod and then and then poke it straight down in front of you, and then come out and around and then do do your cast, you can do it off any side. You know, and then you can, you can sit there and poke your rod like three times to get all your lines just lined up right in front of you, and then just do that around and over the top and through and it’s and the thing is, it’s a, it’s, it’s a, it’s extremely powerful cast, like I said, and then it’s also a calf that doesn’t, you know, if you keep your hands tight, it’s you don’t have to do a lot of ranging movements. You know what I mean? You can keep everything really tight to your body and then the, the line will stick to the water. Which is going to create a lot of lot of load in your rod and a lot of bent.

Dave S 33:51
Yeah, that’s right, that that’s the thing when I think of it, I think, I guess I’m painting that picture. Again, we’re, I’m thinking of this high water situation. I’m plowing through the brush. I’ve done this steep cliff and I drop in and I’m you know, on river left right rivers going from right to left and I’m a kind of top hand up and you know I’m setting this thing up so I do say a snap tee or something and I and I do the do the Poke and get out there and then I bring it back and when you bring it back basically like you’re saying all this line, there’s a lot of line on the water that you’re pulling back and that’s that exact that’s a good thing, right?

Trevor 34:25
Yes, absolutely. Because that like for example, like a big reason for like sketch lines, okay, sketch lines are thick. Okay, it’s to create it’s to you, so you got a lot of surface area, okay. And so that’s, that’s a lot of area for that water to grip your line, which is which is, you know, if you’re, if you’re, if you’re a bow hunter, okay, you’re you’re loading up that boat to make your kill shot pretty much. So it’s loading and loading everything and you don’t have to you don’t necessarily have to be sweeping fast with your rod. You know, as long as Your constant if even if you’re slow, the waters grip and grip in that line are really nice. Okay, and then your release point is the same release point an NFL quarterback is going to have when he’s trying to hit a receiver, way down the field, okay, it’s everything’s in control until that last that last little bit and it’s the last extension is where I put all my maximum effort and then you can you can also breathe out while you’re doing it. And I’ll just kind of, you know, they’ll give you that little extra extra juice. But yeah, you can punch out there but the main thing is starting short. Like Like all steel heading, okay, fish your feet, and then it doesn’t like your casting does not there’s no ceremony out here, okay, it’s Can you make official cast? Like I don’t care. I really don’t care what it looks like. Okay, you could do some weird crap and throw it out there. And as long As it’s where it needs to be and you’re mending when you have to and you’re holding it in and then you’re being patient being patient by if when the time comes like all the every eat from steel has gonna be different and you need to react accordingly you know and it’s really it’s really tough to keep to keep calm when when a fish is chewing on so

Dave S 36:21
So what you’re saying is you know you don’t have to be fishing out there in the situation a perfect you know turning that fly over just perfectly I mean you could you could pile it up and do it man I I asked this question occasionally because I know that you know would like summer steelhead you probably if you’re if you’re turning the flyover better and getting a beautiful cast you probably

Trevor 36:39
totally different game yeah totally different. Yeah, it’s a totally different thing and then like said these are that Yeah, that’s a that’s a whole nother realm. I’m from what the winner thing is the winner is generally said it’s you don’t have to be you don’t have to be a rock star caster you It helps to be a rock star waiter. Yeah. No uncertain place, especially where you’re at out here. Yeah, or else you’re going to be really, really wet. But if you can make a manageable cast, you’re going to have a shot some fish.

Dave S 37:10
That’s cool. Let’s go see that. That’s kind of my dilemma. My dilemma is that I, I’m actually kind of a rock star waiter. I’m not a great caster, but I love summer steelhead, and I love winter, but if I had to pick one, I would rather I’d rather be in 90 degree weather swing and for summers, and oh yeah, I think I need to change it to either get better at casting or fish for winters war.

Trevor 37:31
Mm hmm. No, and then it said it’s just I you know, I know a lot of different steelhead guys and they and it’s crazy. You know, depending on you know, where you grew up or where you started fishing kind of you like, you know, one of my buddies, his name’s Nick Raul, he shoots a guy loves that place and I’ve fished this shoots a bunch and it’s it’s a super, super magical place. That everybody Should fish Yeah. But if I had if I if I died and went to heaven I’d be on it. I’d be on a steelhead river out here somewhere or in BC you know, I really would.

Dave S 38:11
That’s it. I know it’s so cool. I love it because everybody’s everybody’s got their their thing so well

Trevor 38:17
and also you don’t have to deal with rattlesnakes and ticks out here.

Dave S 38:20
Good point. Those are the Yeah, that’s thing in order to in the northwest, go down to the south go to the southeast or anywhere in the world and there’s things that can kill you but in orange or in the northwest, rattlesnakes are pretty much the only animal that can kill you.

Trevor 38:35
Yeah, and then you know, you’ll have it you’ll have a random Black Widow around them. But for example, if like on the dish shoots, those rattlesnakes will buzz you from you know, 10 feet 10 yards away, like you go to the Grand Ron, the grand Ronde, I’ve always found to be a little different. I’ve never had a rattlesnake, let me know they were there. You know what I mean? I almost sat on one one year. I will I was hiking up a ridge I was setting up a camp for some steelheaders and I hiked up on a ridge and I sat down I looked right to the right of me and there is a rattlesnake going right by me he didn’t care you know, so I’d rather I’d rather No

Dave S 39:16
I’ve had it too well on the issues I’ve had rattlesnakes laying there in the next to the river on my thermarest I’ve had a rattlesnake go across my bed roll you know and that’s that’s

Trevor 39:25
Oh yeah,

Dave S 39:26
sketchy but this is good. I love the rattlesnake tails and all that stuff but hey, I want to take us back again. So line so somebody is going you know, they want a line like we’re talking about a line for maybe these higher events that come up like we’re fishing what what is if they want to just go buy one right now? What is the Oh PST line they could get?

Trevor 39:44
Well, they could just go with it. You know, they could just go with the commando head commando head. Um, you know, they’ve got some newer stuff out, but I don’t I don’t work for those guys anymore. Jen. Like I’ve had a couple guys bring some of the newer stuff up and I think it’s it’s more of an intermediate Which I’m not I’m not a fan of I’m a fan of it in certain situations mainly like for Chinook or certain faster water, but really, I want I just want a regular scheduled line. Okay? Because you know, it’s, you’re gonna be you’re gonna be at a depth that I that I know. Okay, and then also I would rather have a guy off the bottom than directly on it I mean most of those guys there when they bring their intermediate sout here they’re snagging up where the fish where the fish should be.

Dave S 40:33
Yeah, and I think about the like the one is that the fist right is that I think airflow that is that kind of a

Trevor 40:38
Yeah, the fist is cool. No, the so like, and that’s it. That’s a Sylvie wine. And I remember I remember I cast one of the spay clave and then I sent a message afterward because an absolute rocket and talk about a line that sticks to the water. And, and I mean, you can you can feel like a Rock Star. Now I cast him but, but holding your line where it needs to be like, where I really like that line is is for Chinook. Okay, because it digs especially in the sun, especially in those deep tanks where where those Chinook really like to be. And they, you know, Chinook like fast and and slow presentations depending on where they’re at and how aggressive they are. But the but I definitely use the intermediate. It’s more up north during the schnuck thing than I do down here.

Dave S 41:30
Gotcha. Yeah, you just want more control and how do you so if you need to get it down? Are you mostly doing that depending on where you’re casting? Are you putting heavier flies on?

Trevor 41:40
Well, I do I do. I do both. Okay, so I’ll set up differently. I might take I might do a couple man’s in a step. I’ll definitely put like a tungsten head on. But yeah, it’s it all depends on the spot, every spots different and then there’s like Every one of these spots out here, not everyone, but a lot of them especially in certain water with more bolder structure when a guy’s fishing a piece of water You know, I’m pretty sure I know where that fish is going to be coming from, you know, and I mean, I try and I try and lay it out for those guys that play it out. But, um but yeah, I would just, I you know, some of those some of those times I think it’s mainly when the water gets low is when I start fishing a lot deeper because those fish get into some deeper stuff. Okay, and then and it’s a lot of places where I mean the gear guys get to extremely easy I mean, they can just park on it and fish 12 feet in the water slow those fish have to stack and they got to be in certain places.

Dave S 42:47
Yeah, you know, and they get in spookier and stuff like that’s the nice thing about the high water is that and so when you’re efficient so you obviously you’re not fishing when it’s brown. But as soon as that color starts to clear you’re fishing the next morning.

Trevor 43:00
Yeah, oh yeah, the like, you know we’ve caught them in six inches of busy out here. A foot foots fine two feets really nice. Like for example, the lot of the gear guys out here will like I mean they want to stall at four feet of visibility. Okay, and four feet four feets. Great there’s everybody’s got the the steelhead color they really like and I just want I what I want is I want to look at the water and just barely see the the the the boulders you know what I mean? That’s that’s when I’m feeling super confident because I know that those fish can be sucked and really tight. Right next to all those all that stuff my guys can just pound through water and not and not beat themselves up by trying to cast you know, country mile, right? But yeah, give me give me two or three feet I’m super happy to is great.

Dave S 43:56
Yep. How do you what fly are you putting on there? Well, what’s our how big Maybe 10 I know you’ve got some of your own fliers, right? You have

Trevor 44:02
Yeah, no, I just I know I keep it I keep it really basic. And then of course, a lot of my clients bring their own stuff too. But I fish what’s just called a guide fly. It’s just, it says nothing special. It’s just a single station. And then with some hackles and then some flash on it and in different colors, and then I put some weight on some and then I, I put a lot of weight on others and then a lot of my keep unweighted, but like what I like to do out here I’m a big fan of controlling the fly with the sink tip, meaning I’ll fish mostly unweighted flies out here. And then I’ll put my tip on accordingly. That way, because said everybody, like, if you snag up on the in the traveling lane, it’s, it’s over, okay and then and the things that that will really also chapter guides, as is when you’ve you spent Time these flies and you got a guy who who you know will swing through and then he’ll go look up at the clouds on the hang down the flower gets stuck or he’ll step down or and then he’ll get snagged up and instead of trying to get the fly off or let me do it, he’ll just snap it off, ask for a new one. Right and so and so after guys done this a couple of times you start not wanting to give that guy your nice Fleiss

Dave S 45:26
and also then snap it off at 20 pounds that’s not easy to do.

Trevor 45:30
It’s no it’s not easy to do most the time they straighten out the hook Yeah, on that and then I just have to change that but but I want to be I want to have a really nice fluid swing. Okay, and I don’t want to be I don’t always want to be grabbing you know on the inside either. And then there’s you know, there’s ways you can speed your fly up to to keep it cut off the bottom without putting putting slack into it.

Dave S 45:53
So that kind of like I mostly like leading the fly rod tip.

Trevor 45:57
Well, it’s it’s it’s leading the fly And then drop into the surface of the water and then go and then moving your rod tip foot back out. So when you’ve done is you’ve just created a sail or a bow. Okay? So for example, if you cast out there you let’s say throw meant. Okay, sinking in there, it starts swinging, really nice. start swinging really nice, really nice, really nice. I’ll I’ll downstream and into shore. And then I’ll drop my rod tip all the way to the water. And then I’ll move the rod tip one foot back out to the middle. And what that does is it’ll just it’ll speed that fly right in. Especially, like, for example, there’s places where, right at the bottom, it’s actually pretty deep on the hang down, okay, but but there’s not a lot of flow. And I’ll do that. That same thing and sometimes I’ll bring it in sometimes I’ll mend it back out and then just let it kind of kind of go back and forth below me if I think there’s a fish down there. Something’s rolling.

Dave S 46:56
Yep. Yeah, that’s that’s a cool tip. Because Yeah, when you get enclosed You’re not going to have the flow and you can’t lead you can’t lead it with your tip. So that’s a cool, that’s a cool

Trevor 47:05
tell you can’t do it. No. And so that’s why. So I’m really a fan of the unweighted stuff. But there’s, there’s always a place for weighted flies. And then also, you got to think of, you know, you got to think of your clients too. Okay? I have a lot of clients that don’t just straight up don’t like casting with flies, okay? It’s, it feels clunky to them. It doesn’t roll out as nice as they want it to be and you want these you want your clients to enjoy it while still letting them you know, do their thing, right? And you still want to have success if they’re, if they’re definitely not going to have success. I’m gonna go Hey, like, I’m just gonna say, George. George. I know you don’t like doing this but I feel like we’re gonna be in the game if we, if we do this, okay. And if they’re, if they’re smart, they’re gonna listen, they’re fishing guy. And then, but you know, other guys, like I said, they you know, they they been trying really hard to, to be a better cast and be a better fisherman and I’ve had this one guy, he, he was not good at all. He was really horrible a fishing and he’s been in he’s been fishing for like 878 years and I’ve tried to help him numerous times. And finally he looks over at me. He goes, uh, you know, Trevor, I, I suck at golf, too. But it doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean I don’t like to play. You know, that it opened my eyes to a lot of things. It’s like, you know, it’s, uh, yeah, you you don’t have to be you got you just have to enjoy what you’re doing. Exactly. You know. It really is like, I suck at golf. But every now and then I put a really good shot and then I drink some beers. So it’s pretty pretty good.

Dave S 48:23
I love I love that take because you know, like I say, and I’ve had Bruce Kruk and some of these guys on who are outstanding cat You know, they’re they’re casting a country mile. I mean, some of these guys are like Travis Johnson, right. He’s got the 200 you know? 200 foot or whatever. Yeah, you know this record.

Trevor 49:02
Yeah, Travis is an animal.

Dave S 49:03
Yeah, Travis is crazy. And but the point is, is that sure if you want to go for that and you’re enjoying it, then go for it. But if you’re if you’re just out there fishing and you’re having fun and then do that, you know,

Trevor 49:14
and one thing I like about Travis is not only is he he’s not only just uh I mean, I mean, he was a wrestler, right? So he’s, he’s, he’s built like a wrestler. He’s super strong. And you can put a long line out there, but at the end of the day, I he’s, he’s a fisherman. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, and so he’s a guy, like, if you’re, if you’re fishing the sandy in Oregon, or you’re fishing on the chutes, he’s a good guy. I mean, he’s been doing it for a long time.

Dave S 49:46
Yeah, he’s been doing it. Yeah, definitely. So so anything else? I mean, we’re going to start to wrap this up here a little bit, I guess. Maybe we can just start off with the 222 which is top two flies, tips and resources that I like to dig into before we get out of here and you’ve mentionedn Couple of fly well you’ve mentioned your your flight is there another fly if somebody just wanted to check out a fly that they could find online or do you pretty much stick with it?

Trevor 50:09
Well, I stick with I stick with my stuff generally but if there was one other person and I’ve already mentioned it would be anything that Jerry French ties for steelheading mainly look for example, the dirty Whoa, flies, right? Which is, you know, fly just develop back here on the whole you know, it’s just it’s a it’s a leech, you know, with a hothead on it, but it’s got, it’s got maximum movement, good hook placement, slight cone on it, and then and then a really nice shoulder. And so it has a lot of it as we’ll factor and like I was and that guy’s had an epic amount of success and I use that fly like he he, you know, he sells those through Aqua flies, right. And so and that’s a fly that you can that you can use for steelhead and Chinook, whatever, you know, it doesn’t matter. It’s still it’s still got the same appeal depending on what what a natural Miss Fisher you’re going after. What I mean, here’s a here’s an example like I remember one time, we’re fishing this gadget, and he had fished this piece of water through and he was remember he was reeling up and that and reeling up flies got a lot of wiggle and I’m, I’m across the river from and his his, his rod just jams down he goes hey, he goes Dude, you see that? And I looked over and then came right back again and just nailed him. It was probably like a 14 pound buck, you know, just super bright on the lower budget and But no, his flies are tried and true. They’re really strong. And then he’s he’s said he’s put more time in the wire than most people.

Dave S 51:59
Yeah. He’s gonna just make another no yeah. Jerry. Well, I’ve had some I’ve been trying to tell a little bit the story, you know, all these guys, I’m sure but you know, George cook told a little bit of the story and, you know, I mean, we’re all built on the top of the people that came before us right so you’ve got yes Harry Loomer and all

Trevor 52:17
Yeah, you know that the godfathers of spay

Dave S 52:19
exactly how they got.

Trevor 52:22
And depending on where, where you are in the, in the course of this history, like for example, there were the guys that that Edward and Jerry would would, I guess not look up to but that came before them. You know, like I George cook was the first guy to ever put a spear on my hand. Well, I’ve known I’ve known George since I was a little kid. Um, I just I went fishing with him last spring out of Isaac’s Ranch, which is a really cool place in eastern Washington, where he does some guiding Georgia. I love George

Dave S 52:54
George George’s name. He seems to be one of the guys I guess he said. Amy obviously in the That other older generation out there who, who else is out there other than Jordan, who’s at that similar? I’m trying to think cuz it seems like George’s name just keeps coming up when you talk about steel.

Trevor 53:09
Because the thing about George what you know and so, you know, George is a rep but George is the guy that made that I believe that I believe God space fishing to really explode out here. I mean as far as people buying rods I mean George has been a salesman for a long time. He’s, I mean, he can kill anything that moves. Yeah. And, and he’s a good fisherman and he’s a king of the one liners. I mean, if you’ve ever spent around a time with George, you will, your mind will be exhausted after because he’s always he’s always pitching something or telling a joke, but He’s, uh, George is great. And like I said, I I would, I wouldn’t have touched a spay rod as soon as I did and tell. You know, I met George because George he’s come up to the connections Talk do we used to have these? Like they were called spade gurus they come up and help our clients stay cast and like another one of those guys was Charles St. Pierre. Yep. I’ve ever heard of that guy Charles They call him the doctor. You know, I mean, he’s he can he can line out your spray cast and really fix all the problems and that’s what a good like a really good spray spray instructor is gonna. It’s gonna smooth you out and George George can smooth you out and he can and he can sell your rod.

Dave S 54:32
Yes, right. He’s gonna cover so here. Yeah, if you’re struggling with your spray cast George might be a good guy to look out.

Trevor 54:38
Yeah, George the good guy. But and I would I mean, George and Charles, I think are some of the best guys out there.

Dave S 54:45
It’s cool. Awesome. So So yeah, let’s keep on that to 20. So talk to so you mentioned a bunch of tests. But let’s think again, we’re fishing that high water The river is kind of coming down any other a couple tips that come to mind that could help somebody find a fish

Trevor 54:59
well I’ll tell you that my two best tips are the five and five t 11 and a two and a half floating seven and a half sinking t 14.

Dave S 55:10
Okay,

Trevor 55:10
those are those are the two best tips that I use and then I of course fluctuate between weighted and unweighted. And that should give you kind of a a picture of the water I’m looking for.

Dave S 55:23
In great describe the describe that describe the five and five quickly and then the other one what

Trevor 55:29
So, so I so I really like mo tips, okay, because it’s something I’ve been using for a really long time. So, um, so a five and five. So you’re going to have it’s, a lot of those mo tips are going to be 10 feet long, which was the point of them, right. And so the 10 feet long is going to make sure that your casting stroke does not have to change with having a longer line or a shorter line. So it stays the same, but you have different sync rates. So a five and five to 11 is good. going to be five feet of floating, and five feet of sinking to equal 10 feet plus, of course, your leader and your fly. Okay. And they’re also they’re all color coordinated. So it’s pretty easy to decipher. Because the thing is when people think about lions are talking about stink tips, it’s something that’s really confusing to a lot of people. And I’ve found that it doesn’t get any easier than that system just because it’s color coded. Like it’s been around a long time. If you can’t figure out that system. It’s going to be tough going forward. So but but but, and then of course, you’ve got the intermediate, okay, and the intermediates are nice, but I still I’m a huge fan of the floater, or the floating, the floating sections versus the intermediate tips, which are gonna are going to swing through slower and dig a little deeper.

Dave S 56:50
Gotcha. And so you had the the five, five and then what was the second one,

Trevor 56:54
fdit was a two and a half. So it’s a two and a half foot floating section and then a second Seven and a half foot sinking section t 14 t 14. Hmm. And then like most of the water out here, you can fish with that tip, whether it’s deep or shallow, depending on what fly you put on as far as weight factor unweighted, and then how you set your caste up, where you How, how many times you men where you put tension on your fly, you know, until you put tension on, it’s pretty much gonna, it’s gonna drop. And then it’s also it also could be lifeless also, until you engage your swing. So but those are those are my my two favorite tips out here. Of course, the conditions changed to where I’ll use some really some much heavier stuff. And then rarely do I have to go lighter than that. But every now and then there’s there’s always a spot that comes out of nowhere where it’s like I need the lightest thing possible. Because I’ve wrote over it five times and five times there’s been a steel head there and then the sixth time I’ve decided to decide to fish it. You know what I mean? It usually doesn’t take five times but If I roll replaced twice and there’s a steelhead there, chances are the next time down there, I’m going to be pulling it.

Dave S 58:05
Yeah, that’s it. Okay, cool. So, in on those tips, just just briefly, you know, we do talk about occasionally about just actual, you know, fly fishing tip and sort of thing, anything else you wanna throw out there as far as like, you know, somebody on the water and not necessarily the you know, the tip that that was, those are amazing tips and tips, but anything else you throw out there that helped them get into a fish

Trevor 58:27
or get into a fish? Oh, as far as tips, I would say probably fish a little deeper into a tail out than you’re used to. And how do you do that? This is this is really simple when you want to when you want to, when you want to reel up and head back the boat keep going at least 10 more perfect. And that that’s the problem is that is that most guys like especially after a really long piece of water like that, if the waters too, too long, they they’ll get bored. Okay, so they’ll start they’ll start being complacent. They’ll want to reel up they’ll they’ll, they’ll strip in a cast halfway through the swing. And then one thing, like for example, a lot of times, like the book boats will go by their name thing or gear fishing and then they pull up at a certain point because they’ll start getting really shallow and they’re gonna have to either go down a rabbit hole, right, well, the first place those fish are stopping is rats on top of that rapid so I would fish pretty deep into the tail outs. that’s a that’s a really good piece of advice that I would tell people that want to be successful.

Dave S 59:32
That’s good advice. So winter steelhead for winter still. Yeah, so when you feel like you want to get out just basically do Did you say 10 more casts or 10 more steps to go do or both? Yeah, both. Both. Yeah, don’t just stay in the same place but no, go. Go go into it. Go swing your fly into where the water really starts moving into the top of the wrap. Oh, yeah. You know, there because what you’ll notice in a lot of places out here is they’re really big boulders. Kind of at where they kind of the the next wrap will the rapid will start Okay, and those special they’ll hang right there. How I know this is that I float over and I see him like, I generally fish a spot and then I go float and I stand up and I look and, and a lot of spots I find out here places I just see you see fish and and that’s where you know they’re gonna sit. So and then you then you try and figure out how you’re going to fish it. A lot of those places are their gear spots, there’s no waiting. So you can anchor up and then swing out of the boat. I do that a little bit out here in certain water conditions. So yeah, but yeah,

so and in any Do you wanna throw one more tip out there for winter steelhead.

Trevor 1:00:45
Diamond chop?

Dave S 1:00:46
What What is it?

Trevor 1:00:48
diamond chop? diamond shop, find the chop. Oh, find the shop. Yep, find the chop was like there was a place on a river out here that I used to call the chop shop and it was And it was a really cool piece of water is really shall but the diamonds in the chop man they were just they were really aggressive and I mean and and fish were coming out of you know two feet of water. So if there’s chop on top, it’s like think of it as a screen as a as as cover and then and generally it’s a place where those fish have to stop. So yeah, fish deep in the tail outs, find the chop that’s a that’s the two the two pieces I would tell

Dave S 1:01:32
those are killer. Those are great tips for sure. And, and on resources. Anything you want to recommend is you know, no books, magazines, websites, anything that would help somebody if they’re thinking about the OP and fishing for winter steelhead.

Trevor 1:01:44
There’s the you. You follow john McMillan.

Dave S 1:01:48
Oh, yeah, John’s awesome.

Trevor 1:01:50
Yeah, yeah, John’s great, you know, um, you know, he knows a lot about kind of this area, but you know, I think his stuff is mainly focused on on the environment. mental side of things. I mean, he’s a hell of a steel header.

Dave S 1:02:03
Yeah. Well, the cool thing about john is and I’ll put a link in the show notes is that john started in a podcast as well. Yeah. And it’s called, well, it’s part of the op. It’s the barbless guys. And, and here’s the cool thing about him as I didn’t realize that he fished he’s kind of both gear and fly. Well, yeah. Which is cool. It’s kind of like the more people I talked to on this, the more people I realized, those that that kind of go both ways are usually the people that are like innovating and stuff, right?

Trevor 1:02:34
Yeah. Well, the thing is, like, you know, when I first started steelhead, and I was fishing sand, shrimp and eggs and POM plugs, and, and it wasn’t until and I would fly fish a lot but it was always trout. And then, instead it was it was it was it was George cook that actually got me thinking about Swing, swing and fly and and baits really, I mean bait or gear is really productive. Okay, you know where those fish are going to be sitting like a lot of times you can swing a fly in a place and you’re probably not going to be down far enough and your fly is not going to be in where it’s supposed to be for long enough for them to react to it. Right those gear guys, they can they can change depths really easy. And they catch fish. Yeah, I mean, you can’t compete cannot compare the numbers. When when people when people tell me out here that the fish it’s horrible, okay, and there’s no fish around. All you got to do. I’ll go talk to a couple of my buddies that are ringers out here with gear fishing and they’re going to give me a number fits a certain number. I know that they’re telling the truth but if it’s not like chances are you’re just you just don’t know where they’re at or you’re not you’re just not being effective. Yeah, I’m here guys get them.

Dave S 1:03:48
They do they do. Before we get before we get out here Did you want to throw one more? I know Johnny I’ll put a link to his Instagram as well. Anything else that you want to just note to help somebody maybe sir

Trevor 1:03:59
ah I don’t know, I don’t know too many books on this place. I never, I don’t think there’s there’s much but there’s no and then and, and and i and i, you know I always saw the the books grown up and it was like you know, it was a book that said you know the whole river nerd tell you like put ins and takeouts but I didn’t really read them you know what I mean? Like I I started Yeah, I was just exploring I mean I don’t even know what I didn’t know where that the numbers for shuttles around here when I started I had a nine foot pontoon boat and a bike or I’d use my thumb. Yeah, you know, and I’d hitchhike back to my back to my rig after de steelheading and then I finally figured out three shells.

Dave S 1:04:41
There’s tons of good like camping is pretty decent up there to

Trevor 1:04:45
campings awesome. Like the summer right now is packed like the, the the busiest time of year here is in March and then in the middle of the summer. For example, I run an Airbnb on my house when I’m up Alaska and and it’s full all summer long you know so it pays pays the mortgage yeah you can’t you have to reserve camping out here you know in the summertime but the winter it’s a lot easier especially if you come when it’s when it’s raining a lot of people will look at the forecast and if there’s too much rain they’ll just stay home so if you’re willing to to slug it out and and be damp for a few days you there’s some great places to camp and then some and and some fishing cash so

Dave S 1:05:34
is there a Is there a local fly shop? Well what is your local fly shop? Is there anything?

Trevor 1:05:38
Oh well out here out here it’s gonna be waters West and a guy named Ed runs it he took it over from a fella named Dave Steinbach who was the original owner of that shop. Epic. It’s got the greatest assortment of fly tying materials if you are a especially a steel heads Fishermen that I’ve ever seen so they do they do a good amount of online business too okay but yeah it would be it’d be waters West it you know back in his car I grew up it be Creekside England comes cool but but waters West has got to they got sewing materials I mean they really got they have everything and I generally send my clients there when they’re you know when they come out here like for example they’ve never been out here before I go you know take your time driving out here make sure you stop in at waters West and take a look around it’s like toys r us to a fly tire to it to a kid you know i mean it’s just yeah, I mean bring us on. Give yourself a limit of how much you’re going to spend to like I said because you could go overboard in there with the with the materials. I mean it really is it really is top notch so

Dave S 1:06:50
right on Trevor so in the next six to 12 months what was he anything new you got come I know that the code or the COVID thing is really threw a wrench in but anything else? I guess we don’t really All right, we don’t know what’s gonna go on.

Trevor 1:07:02
No, well No, nobody knows But all I know is that there people are going to be out fishing like I’m I’m spending this time fishing a little bit than working on house projects but but pretty soon we’re going to have coho showing up and then fall Chinook and then you know still summer steelhead and then some cutthroat out here so i’ll be doing some of that stuff out here. And then just I’m really looking forward to put in 2020 in the in the rearview mirror to be totally honest with you. There’s been there’s been cool things that have happened but it’s I don’t think America I don’t think anybody low on the world or Americans like to be out of their their comfort zone of what they you know what they should be doing. You know what I mean? Like I feel I feel bad for and I feel bad for so many people you know, I mean I’ve got my my jobs cut but there are people have been able to see their their families that are you No, yeah. Are there parents that are dying or going to funerals or weddings or anything? So it’s, it can always be worse. So yeah. I’m looking forward to 2021.

Dave S 1:08:09
Yeah. Amen to that for sure. So if they want to find you, Trevor underscore kovitch on Instagram is the best place.

Trevor 1:08:17
Yeah, that’s the best place where you can find me. You can write an email at op fly. guy@gmail.com

Dave S 1:08:24
No, perfect. All right. Yeah, I’ll put a link to that. All that in the show notes. And cool, Trevor. Hey, thanks for coming on. Just one to let you know I appreciate you spend the time here. I we didn’t know exactly where we were going to go. And I I think, you know, Alaska, obviously, is a big part of your thing, but it seems like whenever I do when I talk about Alaska versus steelhead, it seems like more people are interested in hearing about steelhead. Even though I’ve talked about it like hundreds of times you don’t need

Trevor 1:08:48
dude steelheads that said it’s a weird thing. Um, if I had never done it, I would not have I mean, I wouldn’t have bought a house. Next. to one of my favorite stretches of water, you know, I wouldn’t be traveling I’d probably have a I’d have probably have a pretty decent job with you know, a couple kids by now.

Dave S 1:09:11
Yeah. Just Just to give you a minute here if you were the the Opie Alaska, what would you be doing if you are good,

Trevor 1:09:19
dude, you know, I don’t know, I’d probably be doing some kind of trade you know what I you know, what I always wanted to do is I always wanted to be a chopper pilot, I would I would really like to fly a helicopter. But it’s it’s it’s because you can still do the same stuff you’re still taking people heli skiing and and and dropping them into the upper skeena or something like that or doing stuff around Hawaii. So it’s it’s good money. You get to meet a lot of different people and be in some really interesting places. And so I think that’s kind of what what drives me it’s not I never wanted to be in a warehouse for the rest of my life. Like my my parents try to get me to work for Boeing. right because my grandpa’s my parents uncles, you know a lot of they all work for Boeing. My brother works for Boeing. And I just didn’t I I don’t want I don’t want to do that it’s it’s not it’s just not for me. It’s for somebody just not for me. I don’t like traffic.

Dave S 1:10:19
Yeah, no, I know Yeah, you’re up in I mean, yeah, that whole Seattle thing is is crazy so

Trevor 1:10:25
it’s it’s crazy man I drive right through it you know every now and then I have stopped for some construction out here herd of elk you know? Yeah. And that that’s that’s that’s it. That’s it.

Dave S 1:10:35
I know I was coming into our I’m up on the north coast in Oregon and man we’re there’s a traffic jam that was like miles long. And eventually when we got to the top we were like, Oh my god, there was a dozen of these beautiful Roosevelt elk just right off the side of the road. And you know, it had backed up traffic for miles but it was worth it.

Trevor 1:10:54
No, yeah, for sure. No is in Portland. The Portland traffic Find just as excruciating as the CL traffic that’s why I don’t do it much or I pick the great thing about being a fishing guide and like especially being a fishing guide when when you got some days off as you can choose your times when you get to drive you know you’re not you know you’re not chained to being having to leave at this time with everybody else so you can kind of pick your windows but the I’ve been cutting so much evening traffic down there because I used to go fish with that guy was telling Nick Raul He guides Clackamas and then the the Halem Trask, all those rivers and I’d have to have to get to his house and was usually coming in the evening and I was just like, Good God.

Dave S 1:11:42
Alright, go Hey, man, thanks again. Well, I’ll let you know when this gets ready to go and yeah, we’ll check back with you then.

Trevor 1:11:49
Right on. All right, thanks a lot. You take it easy.

Dave S 1:11:52
So there you go. If you want to find all the shownotes all links we covered just go to wet fly swing comm slash 154 Have you ever thought about starting up your own podcast? I’m helping people get started at outdoors online co slash s AP that’s outdoors with an S, slash SAP start a podcast. You can find how to start find out how to start a podcast there with a super quick and easy checklist that walks you through all the steps of getting started. And you know, this isn’t just for fishing. If you have any passion that you love on the side that could be knitting, dog walking, you name it, there’s there’s probably an audience out there that you could help serve. So it’d be great to see a new podcast I love listening to them. If you have a podcast right now reach out to me Dave at wet fly swing COMM And let me know I’d love to listen to a new show this week. So that’s all I got for you. I really appreciate you for stopping by today and look forward to catching up with you online or on the river.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:00
Thanks for listening to the wet fly swing fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wet fly swing COMM And if you found this episode helpful, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes

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“Some of my best days here, and when I catch the biggest fish, are when the river is extremely high.”

-Trevor Covich

Olympic Peninsula Steelhead Conclusion

Trevor Covich is on the podcast to share some tips on fishing the Olympic Penisula for steelhead.  He tells us why you should be fishing the river when it’s high and why some of the biggest fish come then.

Trevor describes some great tips on fishing for steelhead with a spey rod during high water events.  We talk about the best two tips to use

     

Brian Silvey talks about his life as a fly fishing guide with a focus on Steelhead Fishing in Oregon.  Find out what colors are best during the early and late season and how to get your fly down during the day.  We dig back into some of the history of spey and how Brian transitioned into it. 

Click below and listen to the Brian Silvey Interview:

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(Listen to all Archived Episodes Here)

Click here –>>>  Brian Silvey Podcast Transript for the full transcript or scroll down to the bottom to read the transcript.

Sponsors and Podcast Updates

Show Notes with the Brian Silvey

09:00 – Brian works with Marty and Mia Sheppard who were on the podcast in episode 76 here.

13:40 – The dragon popper is one of Brian’s killer poppers.

15:30 – The Cottonwood Canyon State Park is a great way to access the river if you don’t have a boat.

18:20 – We talk about Mark Bachman and the podcast he was on in episode 86 here.

20:00 – Brian tells a story about tying the Brooks Stone and the big blunder and working for Mark early on.  Here’s an old school video of the Brooks Stone.

21:10 – Steve Gobin was one of Brian’s mentors and was highlighted in Trey Combs book.

22:20 – The Silvenator was noted by a number of listeners of the podcast and is still one of Brian’s goto flies for steelhead.

25:30 – The green butt skunk, golden demon, muddlers and the max canyon are all goto flies for steelhead.

26:55 – John Shewey noted bird hunting and was on the podcast in episode 16 here.

33:40 – The Scientific Angler Scandi Spey Line is was recommended in this podcast.

37:20 – The Sofa Pillow was a good old fly that could be used for skating for steelhead.

53:45 – Davy Wotton was on the podcast here and still guides a bunch of days per year.

55:30 – The FIST line was one that Brian helped out on and one I use now.

58:10 – Sweetwater Guide School is a great resource.  Steve Wilson was on the podcast here and described the school.

You can find Brian Silvey’s Fly Fishng here.

Resources Noted in the Show

The Scientific Angler Scandi Spey Line

Steelhead Fly Fishing and Flies

Videos and/or podcasts Noted in the Show

The Silvenator

The Max Canyon

Read the Full Transcript with Brian Sylvey:

Click here:  Brian Silvey Podcast Transript to get the Full PDF Transcriptf

or continue reading below……..

(Apologies for any transcription errors – this was generated automatically by Otter.ai)

Brian 0:00
Yeah, a lot of guys got used to just you know, parking in a spot and just kind of doing laps in it saying thinking they were going to keep coming through and, and I don’t think that you can’t do that with these lower numbers of fish. So you need to cover as much different water you know and keep moving as you know, it’s one thing

where we go through a run like we’re not there. Let’s go.

Dave S 0:26
That was Brian Sylvey with a nice tip this year if the numbers aren’t quite where you’d like them. This is the wet fly swing fly fishing show. Welcome to the wet fly swing fly fishing show where you discover tips, tricks and tools from the leading names in fly fishing. today. We’ll help you on your fly fishing journey with classic stories covering steelhead fishing, fly tying and much more. Hey, how’s it going everyone thanks for stopping by the fly fishing show today. Bryan Silva is on to shed some light on his 35 year career guiding for trout instead. ahead in the Pacific Northwest, Brian describes how it all got started including the story of when he was a kid riding back from the steelhead river with two steelhead hanging off his BMX bike on the side of highway 26. Plenty of funny looks and the good story there. So looking forward to that, sharing that with you today, and plenty of good tips as well on steelhead fishing and a little on trout. Before we get started, let’s hear from our sponsors. Since 1977, the fly fishing and tying journal has long been considered the anglers magazine with original how tos and technical articles written by the best trout and steelhead anglers in the West. They are committed to sharing exceptionally written essays, fiction, poetry and in depth guides to fly tying and fly fishing. f TJ is one of my go to magazines and if you haven’t checked it out recently, you can get started today by calling 1-800-541-9498 or heading over to the web at Ft. J angler.com. Got fishing comm is your trusted source of information with access to the world’s best fishing trips. You’ll never pay a dime extra for the trip you book and in many cases less than advertised. Find out where got fishing could take you by heading over to gut fishing calm today. That’s g ot fishing.com or reach them by phone at 208-630-3373 got phishing calm the easiest place to start your next fishing adventure. So if you’re excited to chase a little chrome this year, I’ve got Brian Sylvie from Sylvia’s fly fishing.com

Unknown Speaker 2:36
How’s it going, Brian?

Unknown Speaker 2:37
I’m doing great.

[expand title=”CONTINUE READING HERE”]

Dave S 2:39
Great. Great to have you on here. I sent out a message in the Facebook group and asked them you know mentioned you were coming on and a few people replied and had some questions about the the silver Nadir and some other things that we’re gonna dig into some steelhead in some of the stuff you do with your guiding business. But before we get there, can you talk about how you first got into fly fishing and Have you brought it all into a business there?

Brian 3:03
Sure. Well, I grew up on Mount Hood, basically in Welch’s kind of grew up fishing the Salmon River and zigzag in the Sandy and, you know, as a kid, you’re out there Duncan worms and you know, fish and that kind of stuff. And, you know, it’s funny in those days in the late 70s, early 80s, he would hook steel head a lot with not very good tackle, and it would never work out. So you know, as a kid, you’re like, man, I gotta catch one of these things. And, you know, I think I finally did get one on a spin around, but I saw some guys that were fly fish. And I was like, man, I want to do that. And this older gentleman was a friend of my dad’s gave me a whole bunch of flight time stuff, which if I look back at it now, it was just a bunch of crappy, free stuff that had like mothballs in it but as a kid, it was about the hooks and you know stuff you could just wrap stuff on on the books and try to go catch you know, catch fish. I actually died like a Think Like a woolly bugger or a woolly worm or something like that and, and had my Berkeley fiberglass fly rod and you know and go out there I lived right on the Salmon River real close to it. So I fish it every single day and that’s where I kind of got my first steelhead and I was kind of hooked hooked from there. Were you near

Dave S 4:21
Welch’s or was your

Brian 4:23
Yeah, yeah, I was. I lived around you know, well, just so I was kind of in between like, Camp marijuana, which is marijuana Boulevard or Wildwood Park kind of right in between those two I would hike that pretty much daily.

Dave S 4:37
To the other so near the

Brian 4:39
fly fishing only bridge right is above your will the fly fishing only bridges up towards green Canyon campgrounds. But I would fish I would ride my bike up there and you know, like any kid would do and yeah, I have a funny story about that is that it seemed like I rode my bike. I’d always catch a steelhead or two and I’d be riding back on highway 26 With a steel letter to on my handlebars and I would get the funniest look

out people stopped me like Hey, kid, where’d you catch?

Dave S 5:09
That’s awesome.

Brian 5:11
Be like down at the river. Oh, and tell him

Dave S 5:15
your BMX bike.

Brian 5:19
You don’t probably don’t see that.

Dave S 5:21
You don’t really do you remember a place called the I think it was called the slaughter hole out on the surface on the salmon that’s on the sandy oh that was

Brian 5:30
on the sandy I did yeah, the other one was like

everything I don’t know that there was out of the rock quarry was kind of where a lot of people went down a Miller road on the Salmon River where they all staged up. There’d always be like, you know, a couple hundred steel and there you could never catch. They were just all staging up in that pool. But now those are enter interesting times with all those hatchery fish.

Dave S 5:54
I remember my dad talking about some of them. I never really got into that that area that much. I remember him talking about that and, and Jim Tini too. I think they would go out there and maybe Yeah, you know, do some write whatever is sufficient out there. Okay, so, so cool. So that’s, that’s where you’re at and then how do you bring that into you know becoming a guide how does that all happen? Well

Brian 6:16
I started trying flies enough and kinda was selling them to the some of the local stores and then I knew Mark Bachman from his son’s going to school with them and you know, he opened the flyfishing shop there and Welch’s and then kind of went through the school of hard knocks on how to tie commercially and you know, started tying flies and then from the flies, you know, you’d have to almost chain me to a table because you know, you’d have to tie so many flies you know, 900 to 1200 dozen or so a summer. After a while you want to want to go fish, so we the fish a lot and and those guys got busy doing the shoot so they kind of gave us the walking trips on the Salmon River and zigzag and so we did Like for our walking trips, you know, we were just right, you know, like junior senior in high school or you know, just out of high school and do that in the summer. And then I did that for a while. And then I was also going to college, but then started my, my own business in 19 8901 89.

Dave S 7:19
Okay, yeah. 89 right on. So back in those early times, when you’re doing the walking trips, did you have any, any guidance? Or were you just kind of out there just kind of taking people up? You knew where the fish rat and just kind of

Brian 7:30
Yeah, they were, I mean, you know, they knew we were kids, they, you know, to some degree with it, they kind of hired us to just show them around, or just, to me, it wasn’t as much guiding as it is now. Like, what I feel like I do now is more or less spotting fish, you know, and then kind of like, try to help them but you know, and then I would hike around and maybe try to find some more fish. And yeah, it was more just using us to learn a section of river and, you know, we were kind of the spotters and maybe a helper I don’t really consider That. Yeah, kind of guiding like what I think I might be able to do now. Right,

Dave S 8:04
right, right. Cool. Cool. Name. If we have time, we’ll get into a little bit on spotting fish. I did want to kind of turn the table a little bit and talk about the john day just for a second because I am. It’s kind of been an interest to me. We were just talking out there there a little bit. Sounds like it’s getting a little busier and things like that. But could you take us there? I know you’re just on the river. Could you take a second talk about the john day and where you fishing for? I mean, it was a Bastrop.

Brian 8:30
Yeah, this was a bass trip. And I was helping out Marty and Miss Shepard. I’ll help them off and on. And Marty Shepherd helps me and I call it I call a guide vacation. So I’m the guy. So I should just show up and kind of roll a boat. It’s kind of nice to just do a different river and kind of take a break from your normal program. And yeah, the last few years I mean, partly it’s water flows. On the john day, a lot of years the river gets starts getting low and ends Not as many people have floated but the last two years we’ve had a fair amount of water you know kind of late season it rain this whole trip we were just on and there’s plenty of flows and so there’s there’s lots of people out there using the john day now. I mean it’s a great river and it’s a great kids River. The trip we did was a couple families with some kids you know, I had two six year old twin boys that were just a riot, you know, and had a ball catching those bass. It’s just a great kid friendly family River. You know, that’s not real big and scary, kind of like the Deschutes school. Are you are you guys out there? Is this all a flight trip or is a spinner What are you guys doing? We pretty much will do flies. I mean, sometimes kids might want to you know, it’s easier to do a spin but you know, they can drag a fly out of the boat and catch most fish you know, but you try to teach them a little bit how to cask and one of the twins actually both the twin boys caught pretty good sized bags. There’s a funny story is one that one of the twins I had his name is Dylan. His dad was helping out a cast and we came in this little Cove and there was a big bass in there. And he threw it in there perfectly the fish ate it, but he wasn’t able to kind of set the hook. And then the dad was trying to help and then we got wrapped up in the bushes. And then I had a float over there until we floated back out that bass was still in this vicinity. So the dad threw it in there. And we hooked this bass I don’t know how big it was, was probably at least three four pounds. I mean, that’s a big, big small mouse for that river. And we were able to do and kind of help fight in landed. He was so excited. So that’s really fun as a guide after this long watching kids, you know, fight fish and just giggling and yelling it’s a whopper, you know, right what

Dave S 10:56
what are you guys like using woolly buggers and stuff like that?

Brian 10:59
Yeah. Yeah, the water started coloring up with all the rain but like couple days we were able to use poppers and kind of some dragon fly type patterns but a lot of wooly buggers with the kids basically you can kind of drag that along will kind of maneuver the boat perfectly forum and just kind of slimes accelerator decelerate the fly forum

Dave S 11:26
are you guys doing just a like dry lines with with split shot? Are you doing a sinking?

Brian 11:30
No, no, it’s just it’s just like a behead wooly buggers probably the best because it’s kind of sinks a little bit doesn’t get in the big boulders, but if you let it sink a little it’ll, it’ll get down where you want it but not not get hung up too much. I’ve tried some heavier stuff to kind of get down off those deep balls, but it’s too hard for most people to kind of deal with and sink tips or, you know, have some guys that are maybe a little bit better anglers might fish that kind of stuff, but we’re just Those little edges and, you know, little grassy banks with some rocks. And so this

Dave S 12:06
is not not rocket science, it’s pretty easy to find and fish. Yeah,

Brian 12:10
it’s I call it it’s not it’s not a fishing trip, it’s a catching trip.

Dave S 12:17
There was a typical trip down there. Um,

Brian 12:20
well, this one is in a sense, the weather was pretty cold and rainy. I mean, you know, you probably get maybe 2030 fish, which is kind of slow, you know, per person kind of thing where they you know, you go in, like, when the water warms up quite a bit and it drops down to four or 500 CFS instead of being about 2500. I mean, it’s a 50 to 100 fish a day, kind of kind of deal, but I mean, they’re all different sizes, you know, sometimes a bunch of little guys and then you might get some 810 inches and then, you know, you might get some that are 12 to 15. And then who knows, you might hook one that’s 1822 you know, so it’s Like I said, it’s more of a numbers thing and a lot of times poppers and foam bugs and you know, it’s kind of fun to watch those bats smash the

Unknown Speaker 13:10
top water

Dave S 13:12
would be a good phone or what do you use there?

Brian 13:15
Um, well I used to have a fly called a dragon popper that was kind of an in between a damsel in a dragon that kind of had a little pop her head off other emergencies to tie and there’s still a few shops that have that. Yeah, because the big hatch on the john day is later in the season you’ll get dragonflies and damsels in the bassel jump in the riffles. Like it’s the craziest though ever see?

Dave S 13:38
So that’s not on right now. That’s

Brian 13:39
a little bit like it’s too cold, right? It’s just it’s like temperature just like a salmon fly hatch. Gotcha. It’s a water temperature thing and it’s still a little cold for it. But uh, but any proper I mean a little frog pattern, but you don’t want to use too small one. I’ll tell you that because they’ll inhale that thing. So like a medium size large mouth popper. So that way they don’t suck it in too far because it’ll be nothing but a nightmare trying to get it out of them without killing them. So

Dave S 14:07
what’s the take us to the river? What’s the river? Is it like an easy float pretty flat? Are there any, you know, any tricky spots?

Brian 14:15
There is a couple tricky spots and most floats are very easy. I mean, you got burnt ranch rapids, which, at certain flows, we went through that kind of area and it it was pretty easy, but when it gets lower, that gets hard and then karno rapids. There’s certain flows you can’t really even make it through there. The rest of the river is really, really easy, especially the lower River. You know, they have that down at Cottonwood, they have that big state park down. That’s being used a lot and that whole area is you can there’s walking and waiting and you know, trails you can watch people walk way down there sometimes. Very friendly, usable River.

Dave S 14:56
Gotcha. If you did, if you didn’t have a boat that new cottonwood area is a pretty good area to go if you could pay for access.

Brian 15:03
Oh, sure. That’s probably your easiest. I mean the best. Yeah.

Dave S 15:06
Okay, cool. And then you guys took Do you do the drift boats down through that section?

Brian 15:11
Oh, yeah, this flow you can use a drift boat. Yeah, it’s from pure peace enough oarsmen not hitting too many rocks, but, you know, raft is probably more feasible for most people, especially when it gets lower. Gotcha.

Dave S 15:23
Okay, cool. Well, yeah, I just want to get a taste that had to me and Marty, they were on. I think it was Episode 76 A while back and we talked a little bit about the john day and talked a little bit about, you know, a little bit this and that, but it’s interesting because, you know, you mentioned the rivers busier, I wonder, you know, doing this podcast because this is gonna go out, you know, to thousands You don’t know how many thousands of people will see this, you know, in the long term, but you know, people are gonna hear this right. And they’re gonna be like, Oh, the john day and I wonder how much influence I had since that, you know, two years ago when I interviewed me and Marty, but what’s your take on that because you’re a guide as well, right? You’re getting people out to these areas, you know, with the pressure

Brian 16:00
Right, I think right now as the way the world is, I think people will just walk it away. I mean, I don’t blame him. So the Deschutes has been on the weekends have been kind of busy. You know, it’s just people camping and, and floating and fishing too. And I think that’s another thing. I mean, what a great way to escape with your family. Kind of on any river right now this kind of decompress and not watch the news, really. So that’s, that’s kind of a nice thing. And I think a lot of people are taking advantage of that would be my guest to go. Yeah, I mean, a lot of our reserves are being overused sometimes, but you know, it’s good and bad. I hope people respect the rivers that you know, they’re out there floating either the chutes or the sandy or you know, or the john day and and that way, you know, when we need people to fight for them, hopefully they’ll fight with us. And the way I look at it, you know, when there’s when there’s problems hopefully, though, They’ll be the ones who step up and say, Hey, we need to do something about this though. That’s right. So when you see all those

Dave S 17:05
people, lots of more people in the room, you don’t feel like oh, you know, I kind of, I’m kind of contributing to this over maybe over pressured rivers, you just feel like it’s probably going to be a good thing in the long term.

Brian 17:16
Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, you don’t like it as a guide at times. But you all need to get along and you’re all trying to do the same thing. None of us own it. I mean, he’s What are we, I’m, I’m a guide, but I don’t own this river. Like, you know, if you’re, if you’re in a spot, I’m going somewhere else, give me some space to, you know, don’t don’t come in where I’m at, you know, I’m trying to do my job but not week I, I always try to get along with the public and be super friendly and helpful in any way I can if they don’t know where they’re going or where they want to camp or, you know, you try to help them out. Because then you know, that we were kind of an ambassador of what river we’re on instead of going how those guys are always, you know, racing around or, you know, causing problems. It’s like, No, no, we’re here. Help if we can.

Dave S 18:02
Exactly not school? Who were some of your, you know, when you think about mentors, people that got me you mentioned Mark Bachman, I think that’s an interesting one because mark, I think maybe he he’s looked at as kind of a little rough around the edges to some people that maybe don’t know him. What’s your take on that? And then Who were some of your mentors to get you going?

Brian 18:18
Well, sure. I mean, I knew Mark since I was in the fourth grade. So it was just normal for me.

Dave S 18:25
What do you think was Mark? Because I have an interesting story, because I, you know, I didn’t know mark that well, for years. years. I kind of knew of him right. But I find that when I did the podcast because we did a podcast with him. And, you know, we went out on the river and he took me out. We had a full day on the Sandy. And at the end of the trip, I was like, Yeah, I was like, Mark, I think it was pretty cool. Because all these years didn’t really know you. And I think we’ve kind of created friendship, you know, so I got I got to know him a little bit and that whole thing that I thought about him being a little bit rough is like we know he’s a good guy. So what do you think people what do they get wrong about Mark? Start off.

Brian 19:01
Yeah, just a little rough around the edges, but his knowledge of wherever he is, that is amazing. I mean, you know, he’s, he’s been on these rivers for a long time since the 60s and and he’s very knowledgeable about the geology and just the historical facts of the river that sometimes I’m not always but uh, you know, but for me, Mark was always great. You know, like, I have a great story The first time I really tied a bunch of flies for mark for the shop. Were some Brookstone. I was kind of like going to be my job to tie all the Brookstone then. And at that time, there wasn’t a lot of commercial companies Time flies, I mean, um, qual was was there but it wasn’t you know, you most shops had their own kind of unique patterns and stuff like that. And so me and his songs with Thai, a lot of the flies and so I got this order of birthstones that was like 250,000 or something like that, and right and I’m like, Oh, great, here we go and, and so I tied them and I tied like 1520 dozen and I took them in to kind of get paid a little bit and mark in his voice like I’m not buying, you know, those are tied, right? I’m like, oh, what do I do? And so I had to shred all those but he was right they were kind of too skinny and they were right and, you know, any kind of pointing in the right direction like no you need to do this and, you know, to me, or you know, gave me my chance and kind of guiding and made me a pretty good flied car because they had to be a certain way and I saw you know, like, okay, they need to be you know, steel edge line needs to be tied this way and a stone line needs to be tied this particular way. And, you know, you got to be picky with it because it’s gonna have you know, you’re selling it to your customers and they need to be right and so after that I was always very particular on how I tie to fly or how I fly should be tied. So I kind of took that The hard and I appreciate that he did that even though I hated him when

when that happens I had a shred all those

Dave S 21:10
any other mentors along the way for you?

Brian 21:13
But another guy that another gentleman His name’s Steve Govan. He’s a tall bendy and he’s in Trey combs book. He’s a very amazing spaceflight attire you know, like clients pay flies full dress Atlantic salmon flies, but he tied just beautiful space flies and, and I got the guide here in quite a bit for a while there and we would trade flies he liked to mine I liked his and he would tie like he would show up with a box of flies like ikaika you know, and I would always show up with like his kind of style and I learned a lot from him because he hang out in the house and we would tie flies him and his wife Karen. But uh, I mean, there’s others from books, you know, Dave mcnees, you know john Hsu You know, those those types of you know, I always looked at those guys as patterns and I but you know, after a while you kind of get your own style I guess you know, I mean, you know anymore I just I try them my way exactly as

Dave S 22:14
I say, when did the silver dater? Where did that come to be?

Brian 22:17
Well, the so inators kind of a transformation from another fly which was attained them to fly. It was a pattern that were articulated leech pattern instead of tying it with a shake and braided type line, which took a long time to kind of rig up I tied it with two different tubes in a loop knot. And it’s kind of a crazy pattern, but it’s a really great fly and so it’s easy to cast so your clients can cast that fly. The Sylvan ater came by shrinking that down the fish on the john Bay or the dudes or the sandy when it’s really low water, just a tie leech pattern. It’s super easy to grasp. It sings really well. And then it’s a total guide fly where it takes no time

where you can crank those out really, really fast. And what’s your favorite color

Dave S 23:10
for that fly? And then and then why does it sink so fast?

Brian 23:14
Yeah, the less material the better. You know, a lot of times with flies, you think sometimes you put certain materials that you know, this is going to help, you know, get it down, but a lot of times it doesn’t it, it floats a little more. So it’s basically rabbit, a hackle and some ostrich on the on the edges on a tube. And it has a brass bead on it and a pretty good sized browse feed. So it seems pretty fast. But and it has a lot of action for being how small it is. It’s probably about two inches, maybe you know, two and a half would be the biggest I would tie it. It’s just that perfect all around length. But it’s like I said it doesn’t have enough materials absorb enough water so it’s easy to get out of the water and cast. You can cast it on a floating line. It really kind of came to came around on the john day for steelhead is where it really kind of was our best fly for a while there but I started using it everywhere and the best color is probably black and blue is probably my favorite but my second best would be orange and red.

Dave S 24:18
And I had that john john shrill and in the Facebook group was asking about for summers it so whether you can use it for summers and what’s your favorite color for some Yeah.

Brian 24:28
Your color for summers is that it’s a purple and pink one. That’s always you know purple is always a really good color but later in the fall, you know those fall fish maybe late October November seemed like black and blue with the water temperature seems to work a little better. I like the purple and pink kind of early season in black and blue. But I can see that somebody will go catch black and blue early season and get one on a purple and pink late season.

Dave S 24:56
I mentioned before of a George cook I had him on an asset but what is flipped Box looked like it he said it’s pretty much all a lot. So it’s all red. You know, it’s mostly reds. Yeah. Like, that’s pretty cool. I mean, not everybody has the same look at what is your box look like if you open up your steelhead box, your summer steelhead box,

Brian 25:14
oh, my summer steelhead boxes, usually a lot of traditional wet flies and some on shoots. So and I’m kind of an old school guy. I mean, there’s still green bugs skunks in there tight on you know, like a gold hook. I love those, you know, certain times a year but you know, I like golden demons and little muddlers and blue charms and to me like you can’t beat those traditional flies like they work. Yeah, they can’t reinvent the wheel. You know, where were some of the things needed to be changed was more winter steelhead. fliess you know, that was pretty new and, and, you know, leeches can be, you know, changed a little bit of, you know, like to me as Sylvan aiders is reinvented and egg sucking leads. Basically not not Something I really want to be known but it’s a great fly though I mean yeah

Dave S 26:08
exactly. Exactly that’s cool so you know what gets you more fired up summers or winter steelhead fishing

Brian 26:16
is a tough one to me winter cuz it’s talk to me it’s like seems like impossible sometimes when you get it then you finally get one of those chrome beauties you’re just like wow we did it you know

Dave S 26:29
burn out on the you know, I’ve had a few guests winter steelhead, well just steel efficient and they’re like, man, I think she was one of them. I think he was like, You know what? I don’t even think about bird hunting during the you know, I’m not even fishing. Yeah,

Brian 26:40
I do. I’ve talked to him a few times. Yeah,

Dave S 26:42
he’s usually bird hunting. Exactly. Do you feel that the call you’re still good with the cold those rainy, wet.

Brian 26:49
I love that stuff. I mean, it just reminds me of just growing up over you know, since I live in Montana, I mean, I kind of miss, you know, the downpours of Welch’s. And some of that Sometimes and now it just feels like oh, we’re gonna get them No, I’m not burnout at all. I mean like to me this is like I was meant to be like a steel guy. Like it’s my favorite like I love it. I mean after 30 some odd years it’s still I’m still kind of hungry for

Dave S 27:20
exactly Oh, love it. Well, you’re in a cool place because you get the in mop and you know, you only have to worry about 10 inches of rain a year so you kind of get the dry right you’re in the desert,

Brian 27:28
right? Oh, yeah, no, I’ll call home a lot of times after a trip of just being drenched. You know, just talk to the family and like it’s been raining over there like no not at all. I’m like, unbelievable. I just spent three days of solid downpour and like oh no, it has a rain much over here.

Dave S 27:47
What would you tell somebody if they were you know, we’re getting close to summer steel. It’s only you know, not too far off. I mean, somebody is over there. They’re they’re struggling maybe they haven’t caught us summer steelhead yet. They’re going over there and they’re just so what sort of thing Give them a couple of tips to help them find a finish or maybe hook their first fish.

Brian 28:04
Sure, well um you know a lot of it especially the early season comes down to how hot the weather is and water temperature I mean we always some guys are really keen on water temperatures other guys have no clue man or no idea that it affects things so much. So I would tell people that you know, if it’s really hot out especially on the dish shoots you know, it’s going to be that early mornings probably going to be your best shot and, and probably more of the faster water you know, the faster riffle or bouldery you know, pretty good current, at least will swing up fly, but you want to head for that. Just be like trout fishing. That’s why I always correlate the two between trout and steelhead are pretty closely related. So a lot of your trout are going to be right from the riffles and that fast water and and you want to swing knows that you want to be out there at first light and I always tell people it’s really hard when you haven’t caught one. They have confidence And what you’re doing and, and it could be really, really hard on your mind on like, Am I doing this right? or What am I doing wrong or, you know, there’s just none here or just you just keep going round and round and round and it just takes takes time now especially with the, the fish counts not being what they used to be and, and being a lot more people at times and you just gotta you just gotta be the optimist and go it’s gonna be the next cast. It’s gonna be the next cast. I mean, I tell people I feel like sometimes I’m just the motivational speaker. You know, I’m just got to keep people motivated. Sometimes people are like, I there’s nothing in here. I’m like, come on that rock down there. That could be one right by that rock. So yeah, you gotta keep people motivated.

Dave S 29:44
How do you do the days where maybe, you know, it is a struggle like this year, maybe the runs, you know? Well, I guess just think of that. You know, you have a day out there where the fish is just not good. And then steelhead fishing. They’re out there. I mean, how do you What’s your, you know, as a guide, how do you make that a good trip.

Brian 30:00
Well, I you know, I’m always the type itself people want a day is a good day. I mean, we hope one, get a grab, that’s a great day. And so when you get people in that mode, they’re just looking for the one and then I call it hunting. To me it’s hunting, you know, it’s not just swinging flies here. We’re just hunting. And so we’re just hunting along. Sorry, Mike.

Dave S 30:25
What’s, what’s his name or her name?

Brian 30:28
That’s Keystone even 14 year old yellow lab. He hardly ever barks but there’s somebody outside I think.

But um, it’s just hunting to me. And so

I’ll just keep covering water just I fish harder. When it’s less. When there’s less fish around, I just fish harder. Just cover more water cover every kind of water you can cover riffles bouldery, slow water, soft water, everything and eventually You’ll find one I mean, it just takes more water to fish.

Dave S 31:03
There you go. So, so don’t necessarily if it’s maybe a little slow, don’t necessarily stay in that one spot and cover that big run. Maybe just keep moving in covering Yeah,

Brian 31:12
a lot of guys got used to just, you know, parking in a spot and just kind of doing laps in it saying thinking that we’re going to keep coming through and, and I don’t think that you can’t do that with these lower numbers of fish. So you need to cover as much different water, you know, and keep moving is, you know, a Tron thing. Where we go through a run, like we’re not there, let’s go, you know, and then, you know, there’s kind of need to take breaks in the middle of the day, you know, if it’s too hot, or, you know, just not you got to take a break. It’s supposed to be fun. I mean, I’ll hunt pretty hard until a certain point, and then it’s like, Alright, let’s, let’s, let’s take a break for a little while. Let’s enjoy this. Let’s, you know, let’s have some fun, you know, just hang out, talk, have lunch, you know, chill out for a little while and you Talk about some leaders and flies and that kind of stuff and and I do a lot of teaching and I think that’s important is to teach people how to you know how to steelhead fish how I would do it and so sometimes when it’s slow that we’re doing a lot that we’re working on cast them and especially spey casting. You know, we’re all still learning, I call it I’m still learning.

Dave S 32:22
And now a quick word from our sponsors. Got fishing calm a boutique booking agency for fishing adventures around the world. Go Fishing is unique and working with a small hand selected group of Outfitters from around the world that are known for providing an experience that is second to none. Go Fishing can be your trusted source of information with access to the world’s best fishing trips. Their sole purpose is to help you plan the most authentic fishing adventure while making sure it fits within your budget. The beauty is that everything they do is 100% free, you will never pay a dime extra for your trip, and in many cases less than advertised. I can attest personally to the service that God fishing provides as they have been working with me closely to set myself first trip to the Yucatan for saltwater. They have taken care of all the important details and allowed me to avoid worrying about any other complications. I know Brian and the crew have you covered, I got fishing. Whether you need a fishing consultant, travel consultant gear pro or like they have you covered with top of the line Outfitters they represent around the world. They are confident they have just the right trip for you. You can give them a call at 208-630-3373 or head over to got fishing.com to get started today. Let God fishing help you plan the fishing trip you’ve been dreaming about. That’s got fishing calm. I forget that in the center are rivers and fish unspoken, for that there are valleys the strata of which we lower into perhaps in the hollow between breaths and the tiny pause between the rise of summer and his departure. I nearly forget the long sleeve of winter the absence the fractional glimpses of light. Dear one, I will go without speaking Blaze keep me until I disappear. That was a poem by Molly dam in the summer edition of the fly fishing and tying journal. On top of some great poetry as you as you hear here. FDJ is jam packed with another round of great articles and diverse departments. Joseph Rosano is back again provides another classic steelhead lesson for everyone. We hear from Garrett Lesko in a stalking deer hair frenzy find out about striped bass from Angelo peloso and hear from Dave mixie McNeese on seeing the blues and material dying. Lots of additional articles in the summer edition, including an editor’s interview with yours truly about how I became a fly fishing podcaster Craig did a really good job with this one so I’m pretty proud to be in this edition. I believe I have found the perfect sponsor for the show. I would be it would be really great if you can support ftg by heading over to F TJ angler comm and subscribing. so you don’t miss any of the tips, tricks and stories in the next issue. That’s f TJ angler.com to get started today and tell them tell Craig and the crew out there you heard about the magazine from the podcast and I’ll find a way to put something extra special together for you. Okay, back to the show. What was your transition to display like because I know you probably were there before with the single handed rods what what was that like for you?

Brian 35:27
Well, at first, I mean, I kind of fought it because on the first day rods I saw were like 1516 foot like 1011 weights and like who’s gonna use this for like a six, seven pound the shoots finishing is ridiculous. guys

Dave S 35:41
use it or guys do it.

Brian 35:44
JOHN Hazel is the first one I really saw out there with like a 15 foot 10 weight Sage when they first kind of came out with that rod. I started. It’s probably like 8889 or maybe even 90 without eight 140 that Sage came out with his first kind of rod that was more of a steelhead rod for us. And then it came out with the 7136 which was a little better for the Deschutes you know, a little smaller rod. And yeah, there wasn’t a wind like we had to please schedule lines you had to make your own. For for floating lines, there was a triangle taper. It was a lead wolf line that we use, but it was a 70 foot taper line. So it took a while to kind of get good at you know, throwing a 70 to 100 foot line and nowadays, everything’s dialed down where it’s really easy for somebody to just step right into a spray rod and throw a scandalous gadget that matches every rod very well and, and just get after it, you know, within a short period of time they’re throwing the head really well or even shooting line really quickly.

Dave S 36:55
What’s percentage of people on your trips are using single hand for 200 versus 200

Brian 37:02
zero

Dave S 37:04
percent anymore

Brian 37:05
not anymore I used to be there you know I would always like guys use their single hand rods you know in the early 90s and then I’m like hey let’s try this pay rod you know it’s a lot easier here where we were trying to roll cast and it just opened up more water for guiding so you know you kind of really wanted to do it because it just gave you more options then because with a single hand rod you had of just fish certain types of water you know where they had some back casting room and you know the dish shoots doesn’t have a lot of you know, the stay rod had to kind of play and so when the 6126 you know, like a 12 and a half foot six weight came around that was like the ultimate dish chutes rod and floating line and and everything so it was it was in my boat I had leads to have them all the time and my vote and but I would do it after lunch maybe or just go hey, you know, I know you’re struggling but just roll this thing out. I was put it in their hand. Just try it for a minute. like wow, this is way easier. Yeah.

Dave S 38:03
So that’s cool. What came about what line Do you use for that for that? 12 and a half foot six. Wait, well what’s your what blind Do you think you use scientific angles right? or?

Brian 38:15
Yeah, yeah, I’m kind of help inside of the angler with some lines and kind of designing some stuff. So it’s a green window. This is where it gets confusing. For some people it’s all green window or grain size lines. Not like a trial rod where I wait rod throws a five way line. Those are like a five way line is grain weighted to match that five way rod. A spear rod is not quite dialed in like that. But they’re starting to get better at getting those grain windows smaller for the stay rod so a six way usually with throw like a 390 grain skandi maybe a 420 grain on the heaviest, but a 390 is what I would look for for most six weeks. And that would be most skandi lines would have that Okay,

Dave S 39:05
so you just go pick up any any skandi line scientific angler, what is their line they have the good for they

Brian 39:10
have a Scandi, it’s just it’s just called a scanty line. It’s a it’s a, most of them are like 3031 feet in length. And the cool thing with the scientific angler when john Hazel was the one who was really working on that line, and I just kind of helped out because I was just starting with sa but we kind of tried to design that one we didn’t really need a poly leader, because a lot of people don’t know what those are either. And so we really tried to make it where it was a line that would work with either a poly or a mono leader. And it works really great with a mono leader too. So that was and we wanted one that like everybody could turn over. Like it would turn over no matter what kind of cast you would throw as a guide you want your no matter what I don’t care how far somebody can throw it, but you want the fly to turn over every time If it doesn’t turn over, it’s not going to swing very well. So that’s why we worked hard on an outline is to make sure it turned over really with almost any casting stroke, and then be simplified where you can just put a 12 foot mono leader and it would cast Great. So that’s kind of the aspects of that outline. What’s the difference between

Dave S 40:19
a moto leader and a poly leader.

Brian 40:22
moto leader is just like any type of moto leader which is a nylon. You know, like you’d use for trout or you know, your kippot or any of that kind of stuff. A poly leader was something that helped a lot with these scanty lines back when the skandi line was really gone. In Europe, they those guys would use like 22 to 24 foot leaders, a mono leader just to get an anchor, and which for most of us, that’s a long mono leader not to tangle up. And then it just seems ridiculous but you needed that much to try to get an anchor. So poly liter is a mono core with kind of a plastic coating on it and either comes in a floating or kind of an intermediate or kind of a hover type line with you know it has that plastic coating but you can do that in like a 14 foot lane or a 10 foot length and get that same kind of anchor or stick to the water that you do that 22 foot leader which Yeah, I didn’t really care for gotcha. Yeah. Okay made that a whole process a lot easier for the scapula and also

Dave S 41:32
so this summer for your setup for for summer steelhead is going to be like you said the 12 and a half foot six weight with that that skandi scientific anglers and yeah Nepali leader or something like that on or do you

Brian 41:44
follow a leader for you see the nose and with the poly leader, it has a loop at the end and then you just put like, I put 10 pound Tippett on there, whatever you like to use, and then, you know, three, four feet and you just try a fly on. So it’s pretty easy. Just to Loop The Loop and then tie a fly on with the model leader you know a lot of times you might buy like a 12 foot tapered leader and sometimes I’ll add like, you know, 10 pounds of a few feet so that way if you get any wind knots down there, you can just change that out. But you could just tie it right to the paper leader and go fish also.

Dave S 42:22
And what about dry flies for steelhead? Do you do any of that out there?

Brian 42:26
I used to do a lot of that. Especially when the October caddis start bouncing around. I mean, I caught quite a few steelhead when I was growing up when I was talking about the Berkeley rod and stuff swinging like October cat as I can remember I caught one actually on a dead drift to dry fly on the same because yeah, I didn’t really understand how that whole skating thing works. I was just thrown in like a dry fun. actually landed the steelhead on October cat more like a sofa fellow.

Dave S 42:55
Alright, so

Brian 42:56
yeah, I used to fish a lot of like a skater Anna would fly back Every day we’d always fish to flies. But with the pressure nowadays and the kind of lack of fish sometimes the conditions are not as as easy to catch them on skaters. There’s times you can do it. I don’t do it as much. Yeah. It’s really fun. And if you really want to learn a spot like a run that you fish a lot, you’ll learn so much by fishing a skater when it comes across where it’ll hesitate or where it kind of does some weird movement. That’s what your wet flies doing too. And you learn a lot about a run on there’s an escape. It’s really interesting to watch it.

Dave S 43:37
Exactly. Oh, if you had to go to fliess at the silver news and always one of your go twos

Brian 43:43
for summer stealing Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, middle of day, you know, it’s a lot of times I’m doing day trips and guys have one day it is you know, officially to shoot so we’ll fish sink tips. Not real heavy. Not like we’re efficient t 14 and dredgen or anything. We’re efficient. Medium wincing tips but that Sylvan aid is a great one to fish in those same conditions because it’ll sink pretty good but you can use lightsync tip and not get hung up too much. So yeah, so Benadir is a good one for the low when the sun’s on the water and then the low light conditions. I mean one of my favorites is probably a number six little natural muddler. I mean it’s one of my favorite flies but I there’s others you know, there’s no golden demon. I like I said, I like a lot of those old school patterns and, or a max Canyon. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Got lots of vision Max kadian. Yeah.

Dave S 44:43
So back to to my pops. Yeah, the old orange and black. Yep. We’ve talked about this a little bit just fishing in the daytime. That’s always been a kind of a funny topic because I think, you know, some people think about his kick back and take a break but you’re fishing in the daytime with you with your clients. How do you can you break us down like what You’re using the sink tip line and then you know exactly how you find this. Are you? Are you hitting only certain spots? Depending on the sun?

Brian 45:07
Right? Yeah, the sun angles on the shoots, since it pretty much flows north are, are really important because especially in a canyon, we’re missing big turns, you know, and sometimes it’s in their eyes, which now I can say this and I’ve seen it happen where people catch them on a floating line, the sun’s in their eyes, it’s, you shouldn’t be fishing it but and they’re like, Oh, I got one you’re like unbelievable. You shouldn’t have call on there. But I always tell people this too. We made up all the rules in the steel that never read the rulebook. So I can tell you this stuff and all the rules will be broken. So I look for sentinels I want behind them or off to the side. I don’t really like it in their eyes. So I will skip a spot because I just lose total confidence in a place where it’s in the right even if it’s a sink tip. Think tips all fish in them, you know once the sun really gets out and that’s like The afternoon. I’ll still fish floaters who a lot of times I can find angles of the Sun I still like with a floating line. So it might be till you know 1011 o’clock and then finally we might change over to sink tips but it’s usually a like I said a light tip a flow tip emotive you know those lighter tips that are only like seven and a half think some guys will use some heavier stuff if or if they know the spot that that won’t get hung up as much if you’re not knowledgeable about the run your fish and I would recommend not going too heavy as it comes more familiar with the might be able to use TLS but nothing It’s not like I’m trying to get down like in the winter or slow the fly down. I’m just trying to put it down so they don’t have to look up. Yep, that’s my thinking of it. Yeah. But it’s always up to the client. Some guys will don’t want to fish you know, sink tips that much. They just want to fish floaters, but But yeah, we’ll try to push tips till please. Maybe one two o’clock and then take a break. And then then maybe hit it hard in the evening again.

Dave S 47:03
Yeah, gotcha. So that’s the main the main thing is is finding that angle so the sun’s not there and if you can do that, are you guys doing mostly drift boat trips?

Brian 47:11
Yeah, I’m using all drift boat. Yeah. So

Dave S 47:14
you’re floating just putting in are you doing kind of the the middle section? Are you doing the low river?

Brian 47:19
I do the low I so I do a lot of day trips from like pine tree to match and then all of September and first of October. It’s just back to back camp trips.

Dave S 47:29
Oh, yeah, you do? Yeah. You got all the camping stuff. So

Brian 47:31
yeah, I’m just doing I’m doing laps. I call it but I just put in do the three four days. Go to the Dalles. reshard put back in are you doing

Dave S 47:40
is that you? Are you doing the trips? Like kind of the everything or do you have somebody doing like a gear boat and all that stuff? Oh, I have a gear boat. Yeah, it seems like I’ve gotten

Brian 47:49
it either. I got smarter. You know lazier, as I feel like I’ve gotten smarter. I don’t want to do all that. Is there anybody out there still do it. Do you see much of that that are doing You know, kind of a one sided kind of trips? Not well yeah, there’s a few where you do the kind of, you know, Safari trip just fishing hard throw a cot down, you know, in a run and, ya know, I mean, that still can be fun, you know, but it’s busy enough that that can be hard you can you can end up in places like Well, I think I can put a cot here. So I like to have the luxury of camp and that’s nice to show up to that and have it all done and, and have everything ready for clients who like Wow, look at this. This is great, you know, so look, we have a nice run right here to fish. Like this is why we have our, our gear guy. He’s doing all the hard work. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, that’s cool.

Dave S 48:45
Any other resources? You know, if somebody wanted to learn if they weren’t going out with you and they wanted to just again, that person that’s kind of trying to find that first steel head? Where would you direct me like books, magazines, online

Brian 48:56
resource? Well, deck oguns book is really good. The passion is He talks a lot about different angles and how fish come and fly. I mean, that’s, that’s a great resource. You know, my resource was always Trey combs his books, I had his first book, you know, that’s how I really got good at Time flies I tied all the flies that he had. And that was the first book I saw that had all the color plates, you know of colors. Because before that, it was always pen and ink, you know, drawings almost. So, but Trey combs his second book is a great book on and it gives history of rivers and stuff, but it talks different rivers and different techniques. There’s always YouTube too. I mean, there’s there’s some battery grade videos and Florida killer flying videos. Now there’s a lot of great tires out there that people never even heard of that. I even run into them. Wow, this guy’s really good. Yeah. So there’s a lot of that and even Instagram, I mean, which sounds funny, but there’s guys that do videos on that all the time. Fantastic spay tires and steelhead fly cars yeah it’s really cool to see all the

Dave S 50:06
yeah it has been made it is kind of cool to be able to connect around the world right i mean it literally is easy you can see all everywhere Atlantic salmon, whatever you want right

Brian 50:16
right right well it was during the whole lockdown I got kind of hooked into watching those when you know you weren’t supposed to go anywhere. I was just working around my ranch here and then tying some flies in the evening or watching some of these guys tie I’m like man these guys are good. Yeah.

Dave S 50:32
How did the yeah we’re in this still on the COVID thing how did I mean we’re still in it but it’s been let down a little bit. How has that been for I mean, did you go did were you like shut down completely? How

Brian 50:42
is all that? Oh yeah, we were shut down pretty much for guiding for almost two and a half three months and three months

Dave S 50:48
right?

Brian 50:48
No guiding Yeah. Okay. It was kind of hard I missed the whole spring steel Ed and and kind of early salmon fly to shoots trout you know, missed a lot of stuff. But you know, You got to do what you got to do and the kind of be safe for your family and keep others safe. I guess it’s, it’s lightened up now and and, you know, and people are wanting to get out. So, it’s it’s still a little weird but, you know, everybody’s trying to do their social distancing and, and be protective of each other. You know, we’re doing our best to keep working as guides, you know, but it’s still weird.

Dave S 51:29
You gotta wear a mask out there, right?

Brian 51:30
Yeah, well, I’ve been doing it in the boats, you know, I mean, we’re trying to keep it separate, you know, that like, while you’re out fishing, it seems kind of silly because I can keep away from people. I mean, I’ve been wearing a boss like I do. Some people we were air mass, um, you know, and having people drive down the boat ramps and trying to do the right thing or do what we’ve been told is what we should do. But it’s it’s still weird. And it’s kind of To the people I’ve been leaving it up to them yeah. On what how they feel about it and what they want to do. You want to want them to feel safe and and have fun and so that’s, that’s the most important thing.

Dave S 52:13
Yeah. Well let’s before we get out here let’s jump into just quickly into some winter steelhead a little bit and it sounds like the you know you you’ve been on the sandy for a long time. Any any quick tips for winter steelhead, I mean, it’s definitely a different game. And I actually Marty when he talked a little bit about winter fishing over there. But what do you tell somebody you know, when you’re out there, you’re taking a newbie out for a winter steelhead trip. You know, what’s the expectations and how does that day look?

Brian 52:41
Well, the expectations are if we get one a day is a good day. Like anything but it’s always funny when you take a beginner. Sometimes your expectations are really low. You’re just like, Hey, we’re just gonna pull into a spa. Just learn how to do this a little bit and kind of get the rhythm advantage. You’re not even looking to swing You’re just saying, let’s just cast for a little while just kind of get get the hang of this before we get too carried away. The main thing is just keeping it simple for somebody new like the head out maybe you know, find that easy spot just like I said the cast, but inevitably they always will hook on it was so funny I had I had some beginners this year one guy had three fish and never even I told him you might as well quit now like because it was unbelievable but the winter steelhead, it’s all about conditions similar to summer. But it’s all about water levels. And so you want to hit those fresh kind of rises after it’s risen pretty high maybe and it’s dropping down it’s it’s comes back to water temperature again, the waters warmer, the sandy averages about 39 degrees most of the time. And so when the waters up from some rains you’re getting maybe that’s 42 maybe even 43 degree water or those winter fish are going to be a lot more active to fly So then and then it’s kind of hitting the right kind of water it’s back to hunting again but with the beginner like I said, I’ll just keep it simple and then just put them in water where they’re don’t have to throw it very far and then work on trying to slow the fly down. That’s what I think is important with winter fish is not always deeper. It’s this needs to be slower sometimes, because the water is so much colder that they’re not as active so when I was we’re not fishing the same waters, you’d fish for summer steelhead, it’s some of that slower, maybe tail out or middle of the run. Kind of real methodical, slow water, where it’s kind of even pace all the way through.

Dave S 54:40
Yeah. How do you slow so other than finding the right water house? Do you slow that fly down?

Brian 54:45
Well, you know, mending or casting angles are always important, kind of with a steel heading summer or winter. But the angle sometimes is a little more across, just to give the fly time to get a little deeper and help It’s slow it down. So sometimes I’m missing a lot more, and I’ll throw one big mend and it’s a lot of like I call it a rendering, you know, just kind of rendering the fly just lifting that in right off the rod tip just kind of keeping that going a little bit slower as it starts coming across, like depends on the water, but I do a lot of rendering and then there’s lines there’s some of these 3d lines or like a line that I helped out with which was called a fist, which is a floating intermediate with a built in sink tip. So it kind of slows the fly down getting below that surface, kind of tension or surface, you know, currents that are going all over the place, you can break that surface, then it will go a lot slower all by itself without a lot of mending or a lot of hassle. So that lines become kind of important winners feel adding but you know it’s just getting that fly slower. Like I said, I tried. One year I tried to use a big a 10 weight 15 foot 10 weight I fished sink tips up to like 500 grains, I had like teeny lines and I paid for a schedule ahead basically. And I was dredging girls watching all these guys fishing gear catching all these fish. And I really didn’t catch any more fish, fishing all that heavy, heavy, heavy, some tips and heavy flies. I caught some but it was more of a hassle. And I thought, Man, I think I’m missing some of these fish in the higher flows that are in close. When the water is up there cruising along the edges, they’re not out in that heavy current. They’re on those inside seams in those little little depressions or maybe those rocks so I’m actually fishing I think lighter sometimes now than I ever did. And swing it in closer at least the first time through. And I’ll do that a lot roll Fisher run real light kind of first time through. And then if we got time, I’ll come back through with something totally different, you know, a little bit heavier fly, a little heavier sink tip and then try to you know, maybe slow it down or get it down a little more Out, out a little farther after we went through but sometimes that’s First time through with that light stuff that’s when we hooked on Yeah. Especially in that off colored water, you know a little more glacial colored and, and kind of higher flows that’s that’s the prime stuff so we’re constantly as guide looking at water flows I hardly ever do in the summer, but in the winter just like on your phone flows like oh it’s crashing oh no maybe the next day my guess. Right Is

Dave S 57:24
that how you how you get with clients when people I mean probably some are setting up scripts in advance Are you kind of guiding it based on flows?

Brian 57:31
Well, you know, we set up some people needed scheduled trips, you know, in advance this way their schedules are and then I’ll kind of have a hot sheet I call our guys might have a little leeway to get away and I’ll call you know, just kind of hit the list if I have openings and and tell them like hey, it’s it could be good and the next day or two and then they go Yeah, I can make it I’m like Alright, let’s get it down. And but I’m really picky in the winter. I’ve done this long enough that You can really burn somebody out on winter stealing if you go on a long day, and so on. Depending on the person that booked the trip, I will tell them that we will try to hit the best conditions we can and I might cancel on them twice. And it’s on me and I’m like, No, you don’t want to go on this. Yes. 35 degrees, it’s raining. That’s not when you want to start your winter steelhead experience that’s gonna be miserable. Even if the waters perfect. Like, yeah, you do not want to go on this now. So and then there’s other guys that just thrive on that stuff. You know, so it’s, it’s kind of a tough call, you know, sometimes I should have went navy and I didn’t, but I don’t want to I don’t want to. I want to make it fun. You know, I want to make it that they want to go do that. So I’m kind of probably one of the pickiest probably on some occasions on we’re still waiting, but we kind of have to be

Dave S 58:52
Yeah. So So how long does it take us back? You mentioned I think you were a teenager when you were guiding for that first trip till now. How long have you been getting

Brian 59:01
I think it’s like 35 years 35 Yeah.

Dave S 59:03
So what is your plan? You have a plan on you. Sounds like you just love guiding you’re gonna, because I hear different stories about people that you know kind of they love I mean god there’s a Davy Walton who’s back in kind of the white in Arkansas and he and he’s an older guy, you know, definitely an older guy and he I mean he still guides like, I don’t know 250 300 days a year or something like that and he’s so it’s amazing some of these people have the ability but some don’t right I mean, what’s your take on all that?

Brian 59:32
Some people get burnout or some people don’t realize that guiding is not fishing. Like I don’t fish a lot you know, I mean, I still get out on my own but I kind of knew guiding was giving up my fishing they teach other people that some of the already loved you know, some he already thought was the greatest thing ever was like it was easy for me like man, I want to get more people involved in this like this is a great sport. And, and I think a lot more people should be out here doing this and so that’s way I think of it yeah after all this time I would never thought I could make a career because in the beginning it was just like he did in the summer then you had to have some kind of job I mean, I would be going to college or whatever or working I worked at Larry sports center there was a there’s another Larry’s guide and we’re delivering sports that are for a while you know, basically finished every day and work at Larry’s but um, yeah, I mean, it’s surprising how, you know, I’m, I’m always surprised. It’s hard work. I mean, you can make a living at it. But it’s not easy. Like a lot of, you know, self employed people. There’s moments where you’re like, man, I should be on the river. And you’re not and then there’s other times you’re like, wow, I’m really busy. Yeah. So some people get burnout on I think it’s because they just don’t get deficient. And, you know, they kind of lost their fishing and just get burnout on on people that you know, can’t CAS and can’t do what they want them to do. And to me, it just mode evades me to get them, you know, get them gone without like yelling at them. You know, like, I hear all sorts of horror stories with stories of guides, like now you’re doing it wrong, do that rod, you know, kind of a thing like, Whoa, like, I would never do that. It’s like, now here’s how you do it. And I like to think it’s fun. You know, even if you’re not catching them, like they’re check those out cash this way. So, but no, it’s not for everybody. I definitely agree. Yeah, definitely not for everybody. And I don’t know how much longer I’ll do it, but I’m gonna keep doing it as long as I possibly can. There you go.

Dave S 1:01:37
There you go. Perfect. Perfect. And would you have a tip for a new guy, but what would you tell somebody that’s wanting to get into it or is just starting

Brian 1:01:45
a new guide? Well, it’s always tough. I mean, if they have no home river that they really want to work on. You know, there is guide schools that can kind of help them point them in the right direction, which at one time, I thought were kind of funny. school but that gets their foot in the door or working in a fly shop I mean that’s another way to get a foot in the door that’s how I kind of got into it was kind of hanging out in a fly shop being a you know fly shop brat basically just hanging out being you know casting in the back parking lot, you know, that kind of stuff and, and certainly meet the reps and other people and but really I tell I get emails off and on about guys that want to be a guide. I’m like, Well, where do you live? Well, I live here and like, what’s your favorite river? You know, I’m like, Oh, I fish this river. I’m like, Well, do you efficient all the time? And like, Well, yeah, like I would fish that as we’re, you know, every inch of that. Yeah. You know, like everything you’d want to know about it, and then try to work with a fly shop or maybe even start your own business. It’s definitely hard. I mean, I, I probably wouldn’t want to go through it again myself. Because there was times I, you know, I would take anybody for anything. Just because I had my guide license. I was like, man, I got nothing, you know, other than the trickle down what I could get from somewhere. So it’s definitely not easy, but I think most guys anymore would have to work either for an outfitter or a fly shop or do the guide school where they can set you up on maybe go guide in Alaska for a few years where you can build a clientele or meet some people and, and work from there. Yeah, but it’s definitely not easy to start. That’s perfect. Yeah,

Dave S 1:03:25
I’ll put a link in the show. I interviewed the person running the the Sweetwater guide school out there in Montana A while back. Yeah, I’ll put a link to that in the show notes. And,

Brian 1:03:34
ya know, that would be a great resource right there. Those guys do a really good job from what I can see. Yeah, it

Dave S 1:03:39
was awesome. Yeah, they mentioned that I think I can’t remember exactly, but I mean, they pretty much guarantee a job. I mean, it’s if you want to Yeah, no, it’s literally almost 100% and you know, they’ll they’ll find you something so it’s

Brian 1:03:51
right. They have that Yeah, they they fill up a lot of the lodges and a lot of places in Alaska. With with those guys that just came out of there and Which is perfect for some of those rivers where you don’t have a lot of people and sometimes not the pressure and not the amount of guides you can have in some of our rivers sometimes

Dave S 1:04:11
you have a Do you have a bucket? I’m not sure how much destination type fishing you do but do you have like a bucket list spot?

Brian 1:04:19
Oh man, I got you know everybody’s got a bucket list. You know, I did do one you know, I went to Christmas Island about four years ago. That was kind of one of my you know, everybody talks about Christmas Island and that was really hosted a trip that was really fun to do something like that. Any saltwater I mean like that, that just like I love that kind of stuff because being a winter steelhead, you know kind of guy or living out in Oregon, you go somewhere tropical. That’s pretty neat. And it seems like those fish eat anything you throw out and most of the time. From what I can see what I experienced though, is you know, you still have some tough situations but would be pretty fun but my other one is golden

Unknown Speaker 1:05:05
Colorado yeah

Brian 1:05:05
yeah I would love to do that yeah mark those seem like really fun visual kind of eating you know chasing things and stuff like that but but I would go to a steelhead river in DC I haven’t fished maybe even to like there’s so many options it’s hard to hard to choose we had a trip to scheduled to go to the skeena with some guys me and Marty and the whole COVID thing No No kidding shot that down. We were gonna go the end of April 1 and march to fish the skeena Yeah, we tried a few years ago to do that and I was blown out we were hoping to do it a little earlier and

it didn’t work out. So

Dave S 1:05:48
I’m gonna let you get out of here any in the next kind of six months, six to 12 months anything new coming up for you or you know your business and you want to give a shout out to

Brian 1:05:56
Oh, well just be working trial sessions. Still have some openings for for some summer trout fishing and then go into early steelhead and so that’s what I’ll be working on or this summer trout are you pretty much just hitting the dishes doing yeah just doing the shoots kind of looking for the cactus you know? Yeah dry fly fish and stuff. Well what’s your what’s your go to

Dave S 1:06:17
is probably not easy but if you had to say a dry fliers, what do you fish mostly? Or what’s the most common for trout? El Kheir caddis?

Brian 1:06:25
Yeah. Can bodied elk hair caddis size 1416 maybe an 18 that’s like the go to for me forever. You can’t be that’s the great one of the greatest drive bys. I have some of my own but, but that’s still on great as drive bys. And then one of my data’s pupils, it’s a beadhead caddis pupa is one of my other favorites for you know, some copper dropper style is what a lot do.

Dave S 1:06:52
Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. So Silvia flyfishing, calm if they want to track you down or book a trip with you.

Brian 1:06:58
Yeah, you can get On my website or even Instagram, just Brian Sylvie or Sophie flyfishing you can find me on there too.

Dave S 1:07:06
Okay, perfect. We’ll put links to all that in the show notes and put that out there so yeah just want to thank you for coming on and then sharing some tips here we’ve uh you know there’s the job day I never get tired it’s funny obviously it’s my home reverie you know, the disputes and stuff I never get tired of talking about it. You know, to me, it’s kind of like, you know, the stories and connecting you now to Bachman and that whole thing right, you’re part of that it’s so I appreciate you sharing everything today and coming on and talking a little efficient. Yeah, no problem.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:36
All right, having me All right. We’ll talk to you talk to you later.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:39
Okay.

Dave S 1:07:40
So there you go. If you want to find all the show notes, all the links we covered just go to wet fly swing comm slash one for eight. Could you share this episode with one other person who would love the show? I would. It would be great. If you could reach out and let somebody know I’m definitely shooting for the 5050 Eventually along with Orvis, so it’d be great if you know a person in the female variety that would even be better. And finally, go over to outdoors online deco head over there right now and click Play that’s outdoors with an S and help the journey I’m on there in the parallel, kind of the parallel universe, I guess you could call it. I’ve got I got some good stuff going on. So I’d appreciate if you had a chance stop on by and if it looks like something interesting, maybe you could share it out there with the world. Thanks again for stopping by today to check out the show. I’m looking forward to catching up with you soon and maybe seeing you on the river online. Thanks for listening to the wet fly swing fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wet fly swing COMM And if you found this episode helpful, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes.

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Conclusion – Steelhead Fishing in Oregon with Brian Silvey

Brian Silveyy is on to share some tips on steelhead fishing and spey casting and takes up back to his first job.  Find out about Poly leaders vs mono leaders and some of the lines Brian is working on now with Scientific Anglers.

We get some great tips for steelhead including a few tips on getting your fly down to the right level using a muttering technique.