1001 | Casting For Recovery with Susan Gaetz: Fly Fishing, Healing, and Connection

00:00:00 Dave: Thirty years ago. Casting for recovery began with two retreats in Vermont. Today, nearly fourteen thousand women have been part of the program. And today we’re looking into how fly fishing became part of recovery, connection, and support for women diagnosed with breast cancer. Plus, the story behind a new drift boat carrying tributes to women touched by the disease. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Susan Gates is here today from Casting for Recovery and Organization, celebrating their thirtieth anniversary this year. We’re going to find out how Casting for Recovery creates retreats specifically for women living with stage four breast cancer. We’re going to hear how volunteer anglers can spend a day on the water, helping participants experience fly fishing during the retreat. And you’ll hear about the two thousand and six sweepstakes where you can grab your spots, grab your ticket, support breast cancer, and get a chance to win a truck right now. Susan has a long history connected with Casting for Recovery, and today we’re going to hear the backstory and hear what you can do to support this great organization. All right, here we go. Let’s get into it. Casting for recovery dot org. Here is Susan Gates. How are you doing, Susan? 00:01:24 Susan: I’m great. Thanks. 00:01:25 Dave: Thanks for putting some time aside today to talk about a very important organization, Casting for Recovery. We’ve, you know, obviously, I think everybody’s probably heard about this one. It’s maybe the biggest, you know, nonprofit out there. I mean, it’s such an important cause, you know; obviously, all of us have women in our lives. If, you know, our moms and daughters and kind of everybody else. So I think this is really important. We’re going to talk about an update on the program and how we can support it, but maybe give us an update from you. I know I think it was nineteen ninety-nine. Is that when you first kind of came into the casting for recovery world? Take us back to that date. 00:02:03 Susan: Yeah. So the organization started in ninety-six, but I had a different career back then as a photographer. And I pitched a story on casting for recovery. I was intrigued by this organization using fly fishing as a mode of healing for women who had been diagnosed with breast cancer, and I was able to go up and photograph a retreat in Vermont for a physician’s journal. And, um, I never looked back. I was so just amazed by the mission and what I saw. At first, I just couldn’t imagine how fly fishing and breast cancer would go together. But after seeing a retreat and hearing the women’s experiences, I started volunteering. And then I pestered them long enough that they hired me. And, uh, if you stay around long enough, they’ll make you the director. So that’s how I ended up here today. 00:02:58 Dave: Right, right. That’s amazing. What was it back then? And what was that? That amazed you back then? What were you seeing that, you know, maybe explains why this is so important? 00:03:08 Susan: Well, I think that a lot of women. 00:03:10 Susan: Go through treatment. It can be very lonely, or they don’t feel like people understand what they’re going through, or they just don’t have the time and energy to be around other people. And here’s an opportunity for women to come together and just come as you are. However you’re feeling. And there’s going to be a group of women there that are ready to lend support, ready to give support. And the beauty of it is that it happens usually in a very beautiful spot, because that’s where fish live. And so to take women out of a clinical setting out into nature and strip away everything else that they’re dealing with in their life and just let them focus on themselves while at the same time learning an entirely new skill, which is fly fishing that for many women, they’ve never tried, but they’ve seen it. And fly fishing is such a beautiful sport that it’s naturally attractive to most people to want to try that. And so learning something new in a safe environment while you’re being supported by a group of women, and also the oncology support that we bring in from medical volunteers and counselors and psychosocial facilitators, it’s just a whole weekend about empowerment and growth and support. So it’s phenomenal what happens in two and a half days. 00:04:34 Dave: Wow. Take us back to ninety six. So you were there almost at the beginning. How did it do you have that origin story? Do you know how that started? 00:04:42 Susan: And there was a small group of women in Vermont and one was a, an angler, a guide, and the other was a reconstructive breast surgeon and fly fishing, talking about what it feels like to be out there on the water and casting the line. And they started talking about, maybe we could use this for women going through breast cancer. And so they reached out to an orthopedic surgeon and talked about the therapeutic benefits of the casting motion, and ends up that it’s actually really good therapy for women who’ve had surgery or radiation. They have a lot of scar tissue, which can constrict their range of motion in their upper body. So under their arm and their chest area. So this whole idea came about really around that and then it just took off. 00:05:38 Dave: Wow. So it started around the just literally the physical kind of, uh, you know, uh, recovery part, but then it turned into, you know, the group setting and really just, you know, the mental, I mean, the whole thing, it seems like it’s this amazing. I mean, we all love fly fishing, right? That’s the cool thing about it. But I guess we don’t understand the power until you can kind of talk in this sort of term, right? Describe that a little bit. Is that what it comes down to? It’s like everything and it’s probably some things we’re not even thinking about here. 00:06:06 Susan: I think so because, you know, we hear from a lot of women that maybe they loved being in nature, but since their diagnosis, they just haven’t been able to get out and do the things they used to like to do. Or maybe they weren’t someone who was really involved in activities outdoors, and suddenly they’re being immersed in that and it feels so good. And for a lot of them, they, they’re like, I forgot how good it feels to be outdoors. You know, everybody feels good outside, especially on the water. And that is almost an aha moment for women, especially on the fishing day of our retreats. We see it at every single retreat. It’ll take about fifteen minutes and then somebody will say, I didn’t think about cancer the whole time I was out there. And you’re like, yep, that is the magic of fly fishing, is that you’re not just sitting on a dock waiting for a bobber, you know, and you can be worried about things and your brain can be looping. You’re out there focused on where’s the fish? Where’s the fly going to land? Where’s my cast going? And it really is meditative. And it doesn’t come without frustration, of course, you know, but even, uh, untangling your line from a tree is meditative. 00:07:26 Dave: That’s the thing about it. I mean, you know, if you if you’re tangled up all the time, it gets annoying. But, I mean, sometimes sitting there on the bank, on a rock, sitting down, you’re all tangled up and just taking the time to, you know, to be like, even that can be meditative, right? If you slow down and think about it. 00:07:41 Susan: Absolutely. 00:07:42 Susan: Um, so I love it when that happens with women. And there’s such a transformation that happens at our retreats. Most of the women don’t know each other. They’ve been selected through a lottery. It’s a random selection. They get to come at no cost, and they typically show up with some trepidation. We hear from a lot of women that say, I almost turned around. I just didn’t know if I would be strong enough, if I could be myself, if what it would be like. And by the final day of the retreat, which is our fishing day, there’s such a transformation. They’ve had the chance to hear from other women. They’ve had the chance to say something out loud and watch everybody in the room nod their head in understanding, and they just feel less alone. They’ve possibly gotten some great new resources for their life to move forward. They’ve learned something really cool, which is fly fishing, and they’ve gotten to go out and try it. They’ve built up confidence. I mean, they leave on cloud nine. It’s just it’s amazing to see and they deserve it. 00:08:54 Dave: Definitely, definitely no. This is. And right now you have I want to give a shout out to this because I think this raffle you have going now is a great idea to raise money. And also I want to talk about kind of some important dates throughout the year, but, but let’s give a shout out to this raffle. Describe this. I know you’re giving away. We give away a lot of stuff here, but we’ve never given away a truck to this point. You’re giving away a, I think, a eighty thousand dollars truck and some other stuff. So first off, let’s talk about that. What is the raffle and how can people get involved? 00:09:22 Susan: So it’s a national sweepstakes and we’re giving away a twenty twenty six Ineos Grenadier. It’s like sitting in the cockpit of an airplane with all the buttons and everything. And it’s it’s badass. I’m just. 00:09:36 Dave: Yeah. 00:09:37 Susan: It’s it’s an amazing vehicle. And yeah, it’s a sweepstakes that we have going through December first. And all of the proceeds of that will go to help support Expanding our retreats and deepening our impact. We have retreats. Right now, we serve women in all fifty states, and this year we’re hosting sixty retreats. Wow. A lot of retreats. We have a seven and a half month retreat season that goes from March to November. And this sweepstakes, it’s our thirtieth anniversary. Um, so this is our, our anniversary sweepstakes and everything we raised from this will, will go to help us host more retreats and serve more women. 00:10:22 Dave: Wow. And if people go to right now, we’re going to have a link set up wet fly dot com slash c f r casting for recovery. So if they type in dot com slash c f r, they can get some bonus rights and bonus entries as well. 00:10:37 Susan: Yeah, we’ve set up a code so anybody that comes through there will get twenty percent more entry, twenty percent more. Yeah. 00:10:45 Dave: Awesome. No, it’s great and it’s pretty. And the cool thing about this is, is that, you know, obviously we get everybody gets a chance to win a truck, which would be amazing. But all that money goes to support casting for recovery, right? And I think that, you know, like I said, who everybody has a female, you know, person in their life or you know what I mean? I feel like that’s something when I think about it, like, you know, if you know my wife or my, you know, kids eventually or, you know, my mom, you know, any of those people, right? Like any people, you know, this could, you know, you never know when this happens, right? Best breast cancer is one of those things that there’s a lot of research being done, but it’s still, it’s one of those really tough things, right? You never know on this. And maybe describe that a little bit how, you know, you deal with that side of it, right? Because there is a part of the thing that some people probably aren’t making it through some of these situations, right? 00:11:33 Susan: Absolutely. Yeah. 00:11:35 Susan: And people are so used to seeing pink and Breast Cancer Awareness Month, which is in October. And but there’s still not a cure. There’s so much research being done. But you know, where we’ve had some wins is around survivorship. So there’s better screening, earlier screening. So there’s more women surviving breast cancer, but there’s still dealing with the fear of recurrence. They’re dealing with the aftermath of possibly having a mastectomy. Um, just all the things that go along with treatment for breast cancer, whether it’s the loneliness or depression, body image, just, you know, a thousand things that anybody that goes through cancer deals with. What’s been remarkable lately is that we’re seeing a lot more younger women being diagnosed. And when that happens, a lot of them haven’t had a screening mammogram. And a screening mammogram is just their first one. It’s like a baseline. And so maybe they find a lump themselves and they go in. But most of the time, you know, they people think, well, I’m too young to get breast cancer. And if they ignore a lump or a sign or they don’t get their mammogram, then it’s caught at a later stage. And that makes the battle harder for sure. 00:12:58 Dave: Yeah it does. Is that something for when is the now I know the science or it changes right on all that. But when should people start going for their first mammograms? 00:13:08 Susan: You know, they should check with their doctor and see there if they’re going for an annual physical with their, you know, internal med or ob gyn, they will tell them. 00:13:19 Dave: They’ll tell them, yeah. That’s great. No. And I, I feel like the, you know, we’re all I mean, men are in this too, right? I mean, like colonoscopies, like there’s all this stuff that you can do, you know, to make sure you don’t don’t wait, you know, go in sooner than later, right? Just because again, the sooner you can catch this, the more the better chance you have. Right? 00:13:36 Susan: Yeah. And also, if they have a history of breast cancer in their family, they might have them do it sooner. 00:13:42 Dave: Yeah. Sooner. Exactly. Okay, good. Well, we we gave a shout out and we’ll have a link out there to so people can check that out. We mentioned that link so they can go look at this truck, uh, to win, to get a chance to win, to support casting for recovery. So maybe you can tell us. I just want to get a feel for it. Sounds like you have retreats all over the country and that program, it sounds like it’s a lottery system, but describe that a little bit. How does that work with somebody who’s involved? They win the lottery and then they’re offered this option. And and does that work? Does like, I mean, are there lots of people that don’t get the opportunities? Or how would somebody that didn’t go on a retreat, how would they stay involved? 00:14:19 Susan: So the retreats that we have across the country, uh, if a woman lives in Alabama, she applies to she puts her name in the hat for the lottery to the retreat that’s closest to her. Otherwise, everybody would go to Colorado, to southern Oregon, to Montana, Wyoming. The reason we do that is so that women will build community in their local area and can stay connected after their retreat with the volunteers, with the women that they’ve met. So women throw their name in a hat. The application is super simple. It’s your name and contact info. And then, yeah, it’s a random lottery. And we select typically fourteen women for each retreat. It’s purposely very small so that women have the time to bond and connect. If someone isn’t selected for a retreat, we notify them before the applications open for the next year and let them know these are the dates. Would you like to apply again? In some areas, we have a lot of women who apply for those fourteen spots. So if a woman has applied, say, three times, she has a very high likelihood of being selected. We sort of have pools for people who have applied multiple times because we don’t want them waiting forever. It’s just discouraging. So yeah. And I think what’s also really cool, something that we started about ten years ago is we have retreats that are exclusively for women who have advanced breast cancer, sometimes called stage four or metastatic. These women are not worried about their cancer coming back. They’re worried about dying. And so to put them in a group with women that are all stages, they won’t say very much because they don’t want to scare the other women. And this is something that was driven by feedback from women at retreats who said, I don’t really say a lot about what I’m afraid about because it’s going to scare them. You should do this for women with stage four and also women with stage four breast cancer. There are not the resources out there. I mean, people I think, feel like, well, there’s so much for women with breast cancer. And yeah, there is because it’s been just. so the awareness is, is has been so great. But when you’re talking about women with stage four breast cancer, there is not very much at all resources. Certainly there aren’t retreats like what we do across the country and those women need it. And so I’ve been really proud of that program because the feedback that we get, some women say, I don’t want to go to one of your retreats. That’s all stages. I only want to go to a stage four retreat. So, um, I think that’s a really unique thing that casting for recovery does. And, and we continue to listen to our women that come to our retreats or apply and we’re constantly evolving because their needs are changing too. 00:17:26 Dave: Right, right. Wow. That sounds powerful. Yeah. Basically getting people that are in stage four together and they’re experiencing more similar things. And how do you deal with that? You know, I mean, I know myself, my, you know, we all have you know, death is part of life and death. It’s part of this thing. And, you know, my dad recently passed away. And actually, it turned out he did have cancer, you know, when they and all that. But but I feel like, you know, that’s a challenge. And for you, you must have like, how do you work with that when you have people in there that you eventually pass away? 00:17:59 Susan: You know, I get this question a lot, and I don’t want this to sound kind of hokey, but I have to focus on the positive. I have to focus on the fact that I got to meet these women. I got to spend time with them. I got to bring them some joy, support, connection because otherwise I couldn’t do my job. Um, there’s just I lose too many people. And so many of our volunteers are past participants who love the program, who became avid anglers or conservationists. They just something about it. They wanted to do more. And I lose volunteers that I’ve worked with for years, in addition to women who have come through the program. And I just have to. I just have to be grateful that I. I was privileged to meet these women and see them smile and give them a weekend. That’s just all for them. Because some of these women are young. They’ve got kids in elementary school. Some women are diagnosed right after giving birth to their young kids. And it’s just it’s heartbreaking and it’s devastating for families. And I guess you would call that compartmentalizing. But it’s it allows me to do my job. And so I have to do it that way. Yeah. 00:19:25 Dave: Yeah. No, that makes total sense. I feel like that’s the same thing with my dad right now. You know, I’m kind of, you know, been thinking about all of the positive in all the years, you know, the good times on the water and you know, all that stuff that we had. So it’s pretty. Yeah, it’s pretty amazing. Yeah. Um, okay. Well, what else would you want people to know here about, you know, casting for recovery? Give us what are we missing here? I know this, I mean, we’ve all heard about it and we all are supportive, but describe that anything else we want to make sure to highlight? 00:19:55 Susan: Well, I think I always like for. 00:19:57 Susan: People to know that we’re a volunteer driven organization. So at every one of our retreats, everybody that’s at that retreat on the staff is a volunteer. And so they’re anglers, they’re medical folks and the oncology field. And on the final day of our retreats, which is our fishing day, we match up every woman with her own guide for about three hours of fishing. And all of those guides are volunteers. And I use the word guide. I’m not talking professional guides, although sometimes they have time to do that for us, and we’re very lucky when that happens. But the vast majority of our fishing guides are men and women from the local community that really want to share their passion for fly fishing and the outdoors. And we are always looking for volunteers. And you volunteer in your local community at a local retreat. So if anyone is interested in volunteering or just learning more about our program, to go to our website, which is casting for recovery dot org. And yeah, and if anybody wants to support their local program or support our efforts to expand, of course, we’re super grateful for, for that and also sharing what we do with anybody, you know, who’s experienced breast cancer, because word of mouth is always the best way of sharing what we do. Um, so that would be much appreciated. 00:21:28 Dave: That’s it. How do you share some of the, um, the success stories, these amazing stories with people? Is there a place that you do that out there, you know, online or anywhere, you know, anywhere in the world? 00:21:40 Susan: Yeah. 00:21:40 Susan: You know, we have, uh, we, we have Instagram and Facebook, uh, for casting for recovery and our website, awesome photos of all of them are actual retreats, quotes from actual women who’ve gone through the program. So any of those areas, you can really get a feel for our culture and what we do and what the experience is like. 00:22:04 Dave: Perfect. And it’s the thirty you mentioned the thirty year anniversary, ninety six to two thousand and twenty six. Describe that in thirty years, maybe, you know, highlight that a little bit. And then as you look ahead the next year, I’m sure you’re already thinking the next thirty years describe what are you thinking now? Or what are you thinking as you look ahead? 00:22:20 Susan: It’s, you know, this was never what the original founders thought this organization would turn into. It was kind of like, you know, we’ve got a barn, let’s put on a show and try it out. And they hosted two retreats back in ninety six and just wanted to see what it was like, and it just caught it caught on so fast. And we’ve held over a thousand retreats now since that time, all of them purposely small, and we’ve served almost fourteen thousand women. And those women, um, we recently looked this up. The youngest woman we’ve ever served is twenty four and the oldest woman we recently served and she’s ninety six. So if women are, you know, if they’re like, I’m not strong enough to do that, we can probably accommodate you. We have women in chairs fishing. We we will make it work if we can make it work. So we serve. Our only eligibility criteria is a diagnosis of breast cancer. And the rest of it, we’re going to do our best to make it work and get you to the retreat. So it’s been an amazing journey. And the next thirty years, I hope that we are out of business long before that. That’s right. Um, so we’re just going to keep growing and adding retreats and looking for ways to better serve women. You know, with all of the younger women that we’re seeing, a lot of those concerns are around fertility. They’re trying to manage their stress levels because a lot of them are working on careers, raising young children, maybe caring for parents, and they’re going through cancer treatment. So it’s really stressful and it can be very alienating. So looking at how we’re supporting their unique needs is a way that we’re currently evolving because we have to keep evolving. 00:24:19 Dave: That’s right. 00:24:20 Susan: So that’s what we’re doing. 00:24:21 Dave: Nice. Yeah, I love that, I love that, I think that’s a good way to look at it. Right. You’re things are always changing. So you’re going to change with it. And casting for recovery will likely evolve over time and hopefully. Yeah. I love that you’ll hopefully be out of business in thirty years. That would be a great, great goal on that end. Um, this is great. Well, I’m just I was just looking at the website and it’s yeah, there’s lots of ways, you know, finding there’s a pop up there where people we mentioned about the donating, but talk about breast cancer awareness month. So that’s something that I think we’ve all seen. I’m not sure how long that’s been going, but describe that a little bit. What happens in Breast Cancer Awareness Month? Is it more than just seeing the pink stuff? Describe that a little bit. 00:25:01 Susan: Yeah. I think that, um, you know, it’s, it’s nice to have a whole month dedicated. I think what you have to do is, is look past the pink football. You know, football is wearing pink cleats and all of that. And it’s really all about awareness. And I would say that for folks that want to do something during Breast Cancer Awareness Month, there are a ton of ways to do that. Look for something that just go on and Google something if the outdoors, um, fly fishing, conservation, that kind of thing appeals to you, then definitely go check out our website. If you’re really focused on wanting to support finding a cure. There are tons of organizations doing that, and there are so many ways in your local community, you know, it’s a time where restaurants are doing give backs and, you know, we love partnering with corporations during Breast Cancer Awareness month for awareness and, um, obviously with their employees and ways to give back. If our mission resonates with your company, we are a fabulous partner and do a really great job of providing everything that they need to make it really easy on them because they’re helping introduce what we do to a whole new group of people. And that’s the best way for us to get the word out is through partnerships. So yeah, when you see the pink, that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Dive a little deeper. 00:26:34 Dave: Dive deeper. I love that, and I love that connecting with local communities, right? That’s fine. You’re fine. Your group, we can support casting for recovery, but then you can also get locally just reaching out, right? There’s lots of opportunities there. And you’ve had some partnerships. I mean, I think probably some of the biggest brands out there, you know, in the space, describe that. Who are some of your your biggest partners, people, some brands that people would know about out there? 00:26:57 Susan: Yeah. So we partner with, uh, Yeti, Bass Pro and Cabela’s. One of our largest supporters is Madison Rose, which is a real estate firm in Chicago that we adore. And, uh, we, we just started partnering with Martin Marietta and b a e that does a lot of, uh, you know, aeronautical shipyard, all that kind of stuff. 00:27:24 Dave: So not just outdoor brands, not just fly fishing brands, you’re partnering with lots of different brands. 00:27:28 Susan: Lots of different brands, uh, Anele and Branwen, you know, women’s undergarments. I mean, a little bit of everything. If and many times it’s because somebody has a connection to breast cancer in their company or in their life or with their employees, and they’re like, you know what? You don’t have to be a fly fishing brand to be involved with CFR because breast cancer crosses over every single industry. 00:27:59 Dave: Yeah. 00:28:00 Susan: That involves women. Yeah. 00:28:02 Dave: What does that partnership do? Those look differently depending on the company. Or are there all sorts of varied types of partnerships? Describe what one of those would be like. Yeah. Yeah. Bigger brand. 00:28:11 Susan: So we have some brands, you know, in the fly fishing industry like Mayfly and Ross reels in the past with Sims and Orvis. Many times they are in-kind partners, so they donate gear that we love receiving, because we can then use that for sweepstakes. 00:28:33 Dave: And. 00:28:34 Susan: Auctions and raffles and all of those different things. 00:28:38 Dave: So you’ve done these before, these sweepstakes. You’re giving away a car now, which is the ultimate the big sweepstakes, but you’ve done other smaller sweepstakes where you’ve given away stuff over the years. 00:28:46 Susan: Yeah. And a nice thing that we do, like with our larger sweepstakes right now with the Grenadier is we have flash contests. So we might be giving away, you know, an ners raft, or we might be giving away a casting for recovery rod from Mayfly and Ross Reels and our CFR reel. Um, we’ll do flash contests with those. Many times those brands during Breast Cancer Awareness Month will give a portion a give back of sales from, say, those, uh, rods or reels, or maybe they have a pink nipper or forceps or whatever it might be. Maybe they do a specialty run of something like that. Uh, during that time period with a give back to CFR, some of our partnerships are more cash oriented. So those might be non-fishing brands like Martin Marietta come in as a national sponsor at ten thousand dollars, and then we look to do something with their employees. Maybe it’s a webinar for all of their female and male employees around what we do and breast cancer. We do something, um, you know, with their, their employee programs or maybe they want to do an employer match. Even a lot of companies do donation matching and things like that. So there are so many ways that we can partner and we really tailor it. We tailor it to, to what their goals are. we pivot very, very easily. And because we work with such a diversity of partners, we’re used to tailoring it to what they want to see. So that’s cool. It’s super meaningful. 00:30:35 Dave: Yeah. Are you able to? I think that’s one of the the great things, right? Being able to pivot, do you feel like you’re able to pivot and try new things or as you get bigger, does that become harder of a challenge? You know, in the org. 00:30:48 Susan: I think it becomes easier because, because there’s more opportunities, sometimes somebody will come to us and say, could we sponsor, you know, some women from our company and we can go through and do something with their HR and do a confidential lottery and have, you know, two women attend a retreat, or maybe they want to do a certain type of campaign and they need us to build a donation page that’s co-branded with them just for a finite amount of time. Or we can do anything depending on on what folks want to do. 00:31:28 Dave: That’s great. So if somebody, if somebody was listening now and they’re thinking, oh man, I’ve got this great idea, they could potentially reach out to you and give you this idea and say, hey, what do you think of this? And you might be willing to to try that or tweak something. 00:31:41 Susan: Oh, yeah, one hundred percent. We love that stuff. 00:31:43 Dave: Yeah. That’s great. No, that’s smart. Because I think that that’s really where the, the magic happens, right? Where you’re actually, you know, kind of delivering, you know, value for these other people. You’re the partners, you know, I mean, obviously it’s the whole cause is amazing, but you’re taking it to the next level. This is good. Well, there’s also some events, you know, I think they’re out there. Are there any so you have these retreats. Are you also doing kind of. I’ve seen a couple of things. I think there was a saltwater tournament way back in two thousand and nine. Is that something some of these tournament type things that you’re doing throughout the year, or describe that a little bit? 00:32:17 Susan: You know, we have not been doing we have not been hosting tournaments ourselves. and it’s mostly just a bandwidth issue. We have folks that reach out to us that ask if we could be the beneficiary of a tournament, which of course is fabulous. Um, we see some of that here down on the Texas coast, and we would love to do more of it. And we’re always happy to spread the word and, and get anglers in, in our orbit to, to come out and fish and for us to come out and represent with a booth and thank people and all of that. It’s a win win. 00:32:56 Dave: Yeah. That’s great. How do you choose where you’re getting out? Because I know you there’s lots of events, right? There’s lots of shows and events. How do you choose which ones, what you’re going to over the next year and beyond? 00:33:08 Susan: You know, we have some steady, uh, opportunities. Like we, we like to, of course, go to the fly fishing shows around the country. 00:33:17 Dave: Yeah. Yep. 00:33:19 Susan: Yeah. See, so many of our partners. We have a film this year in the Fly Fishing film tour. This is the very first year that we’ve had a film and it’s, uh, the Jane Project. Okay, so last year, at the end of last year, we built a boat and a drift boat called The Jane. And the Jane is a floating tribute to women who have battled breast cancer, survived it. Women that we know that haven’t survived it, or women that we’ve loved, or women that support others that have been through breast cancer. And it’s a beautiful drift boat that is currently housed in Montana. And all of this is on our website as well. If you want to go check out the boat you can buy, you can buy a permanent tribute that is put on the boat for someone in your life, which is really cool. Um, you can also book a guide trip on the Jane boat. Kara Tripp, who’s a guide in Montana? Um, is currently using the Jane boat, but it’s a ten minute film that was in the Fly Fishing film tour this year. And we, we really got a great response from, uh, folks, anybody who’s been through cancer and just the power of fly fishing and being on the water and how that helps when you’re dealing with something tough, whether it’s cancer or just something tough in your life, being on the water really helps. 00:34:49 Dave: Yeah. It does. No. That’s amazing. So you’re speaking my language with the Jane Boat Project. I’m a big drift boat. Everybody knows that. We had a whole series on drift boats, and I love talking about boats, but it looks like Row Drift Boat is the brand that’s making the boat. Is that is that the case? 00:35:05 Susan: That’s correct. Yeah. In Bozeman and they were just wonderful partners of ours. And you, if you go on to our website, you’ll. Well, or if you see the film and I think the film is in the public domain. 00:35:18 Dave: Oh, it is so we can watch it right now. 00:35:20 Susan: Yeah, you can watch it right now. It might be on you. 00:35:22 Dave: Oh, I see it. Yeah, I see it. It’s called carried by the current trailer. Well, there’s a trailer, but yeah, we’ll look. I’ll put a link in the show notes to the Jane Jane boat story. This is amazing. Yeah. So Roe, which we haven’t had on the podcast yet, we’ll have to work on getting the Roe. Somebody from Roe on to talk about that. But so this is a fiberglass boat with a big casting for recovery kind of emblem on the side. And then also people can sponsor the boat still. They can actually get their, their. How does that work on sponsoring the boat? 00:35:51 Susan: Oh, yeah. So if you go to our website and you go to the Jane, there’s a place there that if you want to purchase a tribute for the boat, we will be doing that indefinitely until the boat is too heavy and it sinks. All right. We will be covering the boat in tributes. 00:36:08 Dave: And what are you covering in the boat in? Is this actual. What’s going on? The boat. What’s the tribute? 00:36:12 Susan: The tribute is they’re these, uh, small, uh, black little plaques that are adhered with like some three M tape and, you know, they’re like three by three, something like that. And you can see the tributes on the website. Um, I did one for a friend of mine that passed from pancreatic cancer, and I didn’t think that I would get emotional when I saw it and I did, I was like, this is something permanent that’s on a boat that people are people I don’t even know are reading it. And everything that comes through from the Jane boat goes to support another woman attending one of our retreats. 00:36:55 Dave: Wow. Love it. Yeah, the Jane project. And and in the boat. Who’s running the boat? Like who is? Are there different people rowing the boat down the river on the trips? 00:37:04 Susan: Right now it’s just Cara trip Montana. And so whatever water is running best in Montana, it’s it’s been a bad year for water up there. But, um, yeah, the guide trips get booked through her. Um, for folks that, that want to go out on the Jane boat and um, the Jane is actually the two point oh version of a boat called the Judy that was made years ago. It was a, a pink drift boat and um, it sank a couple times. 00:37:38 Dave: Oh wow. It sank. 00:37:39 Susan: Yeah. It’s a very heavy drift boat. 00:37:41 Dave: Now. Now tell me this. How did Judy sink? There’s got to be a story. They’re sinking. A drift boat is not an easy thing to do. 00:37:47 Susan: No. And we were gonna we were talking about refurbishing it or something, and it was just old and crazy heavy and hard to row. 00:37:56 Dave: Right. 00:37:57 Susan: I’ll have to find out why. 00:37:59 Dave: You went with a new boat, which is a smart. I have a similar story again, going back to my dad, where we had this this old drift boat that I had that for years and it just. And I went through a rapid. And I was overweight in the rapid and almost sank it. I mean, we came close to dumping it in Whitehorse Rapids on the Deschutes and. And after that trip, I said, that’s the last time because I almost put my dad in the river, right. Which, you know. And so I went out and bought a brand new boat. And to this day, you know, I still have that boat. And it was great because the design right is better. So it feels like that’s kind of the same thing you did. You stepped up to the next level on drift boats. 00:38:34 Susan: Yeah, I think it was time. Yeah, it was time. And, uh, but yeah, and it’s so many women have come forward in there like, I’m Jane, I’m Jane. 00:38:45 Dave: Oh, right. 00:38:46 Susan: All the Jane’s have come out of the woodwork. Oh, man. Let us know who they are. 00:38:50 Dave: And, uh. Yeah. 00:38:52 Dave: How did the Jane, how did the Jane name and Judy names become? 00:38:56 Susan: So, um, the Judy was actually, uh, named after someone’s mom, um, back in the day. And, uh, Whitney McDowell, um, who’s a, a fairly well-known angler. She purchased the original boat And it. Long story all around breast cancer and awareness and all these things. It was part of rowing for the cure and everything in Jackson. Um, it got, you know, moved around to different people. And then when it came time, you know, you always hear like Jane Doe Jane this, we decided to do a two point oh and it just felt right. 00:39:35 Dave: Cool. Well, we’ll definitely have some links out to that. Um, let’s take it out here real quick with our rapid fire round. Um, we’ve been having fun with this. This will be easy. We got some, some random questions for you, and maybe we’ll get a tip or two. Uh, today as we go. But today, this is. I want to present this today by Sullivan Fly Rods, who’s one of our partners. And I think I think what I’ve been hearing is, you know, you’ve been really creative. All the stories you’re talking about, right, are ways to kind of provide value for people, make things fun, right, in this thing. And I feel like that’s what, you know, the whole process is about sponsorship and working with partnerships, right? That it sounds like I can tell right now. That’s the success. I see why casting for recovery has been a success, because that’s a big part of it. But first off, you know, gear is a big thing for us. Sullivan. Fly rods, obviously we’re using them for you. What is maybe talk about that a little bit. Are you a big gear person? Are you? Because I know like I’m kind of nerdy about it. But what’s your take on gear, fishing gear or just outdoor gear in general? 00:40:33 Susan: You know what? I am really scrappy. 00:40:34 Dave: Yeah. 00:40:35 Dave: Nice. I love that. 00:40:36 Susan: I, uh, yeah, and I normally fish with rods that come my way through, through CFR. So I, you know, I’ll wear whatever waders or wading pants fit the best. You know, women, we come in too many variations of shapes and sizes. So I’ve had, you know, I’ve had hodgman’s back in the very first day back on the animus. You know, I was like, what is the cheapest pair of waders? No, no offense to Hodgman. Yeah. Back in the late nineties. 00:41:08 Dave: Oh yeah. I remember those waders. Yeah. 00:41:10 Susan: I’ve had Sims and Patagonia. I wear, um, uh, Miss Mayfly wading pants and, you know, rods. I’ve loved to get my hands on other people’s sage and Winstons. I do not own those personally. Um, but I, you know, the tfo and Orvis and um mayfly everybody. 00:41:35 Dave: Yeah. It’s all great, isn’t it? It’s all good stuff. 00:41:37 Susan: It’s all great. And I live here in Austin, so it’s not like I’m double hauling anywhere around here. So if I’m going to go someplace, uh, normally I’m borrowing gear from someone. If I go up. 00:41:49 Dave: Um. Me too. 00:41:50 Susan: Yeah. I was fortunate enough to participate in the the cheeky Schoolie tournaments a couple of years ago. 00:41:57 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:41:57 Susan: Which was so much fun. And the weather sometimes is just so bad. 00:42:02 Dave: Was this a, was it cheeky? Is that a is that a redfish tournament or what’s that tournament? 00:42:06 Susan: It’s the schoolie. 00:42:07 Dave: So yeah, I’m looking at now. The cheeky Schoolie tournament is is up in Cape Cod for stripers and thirteenth annual. That was in twenty four. So yes, we’re up to fifteen years. So awesome. So so and it’s again, again a cool thing. Cheeky. Obviously they have some good stuff too. So that’s something that was a pretty awesome event you were involved in. 00:42:26 Susan: Yeah, we went up there to support what they were doing and also, um, to share CFR, uh, fish with other folks. I mean, I think we all kind of know that, uh, the best conversations happen if you’re fishing or getting ready to fish or coming off the water and because you have that in common. And, uh, so yeah, I had to borrow a lot of gear for that one, but, um, that’s it. 00:42:51 Dave: So that’s the gear. 00:42:51 Susan: Yeah, yeah. But I’m pretty scrappy. I just like to be out there. It’s not always pretty, but, um, I do love it and wish despite um, living near the coast here in Texas, I don’t get the chance to get down there as much as I would like. So a lot of times for work I’m trying to add a day to a retreat or. 00:43:12 Speaker 6: Visiting somebody. 00:43:13 Susan: And like, let’s go out for a day if I’m someplace in Montana. 00:43:16 Dave: Yeah, that’s the way to do it. 00:43:17 Speaker 6: Yeah. For sure. 00:43:18 Dave: Way to do it. That’s awesome. And we’re doing some similar things. Probably not. Definitely not at the same level, but we’re definitely giving away a Sullivan fly rod and some other brands here. We just did that recently, so that’s great. But but a couple other ones, I got some, a couple other random ones here and we’ll take it out of here pretty quick. One of them is our, you know, you probably remember David Letterman. So if he was sitting here interviewing you right now, I kind of tried to pull it out. Like, what would David Letterman ask you? And I think the question he might ask is, you know, are you still growing the garden? And how what’s been the challenge there with your garden as of late? Are you still doing the gardening? 00:43:54 Susan: Yes, absolutely. Um, you mean real gardening? 00:43:57 Dave: Yeah. Real gardening. Like do you have a do you have a plant in your garden that’s been a challenge for you or maybe one that’s really been doing well. 00:44:04 Susan: Well, um, I would say that I, I’m all about, uh, uh, drought tolerant. 00:44:11 Speaker 6: Oh, nice. 00:44:11 Susan: And so my favorite are any kind of cactus, whether. 00:44:14 Speaker 6: It’s, oh, cool. 00:44:15 Susan: Wales. 00:44:16 Speaker 6: Or amazing. 00:44:17 Susan: Agave or ocotillo, um, succulents, anything like that. 00:44:23 Dave: That’s amazing. I love cactus something about cactus, I don’t know, I think a, a plant that you can just literally that lives out in the desert, right? With that’s it’s just something amazing about that. 00:44:32 Susan: Yeah. It’s, uh, I love them and, uh, always, always working with cactus and, um, cool. 00:44:39 Dave: All right. Well, so there’s, we got a couple other random ones for you. What are you, uh, what would you say you’re you’re weirdly good at right now or in your life? What’s something you’re weirdly good at? 00:44:48 Susan: I’m pretty good at making smoothies. 00:44:50 Speaker 6: Oh. 00:44:51 Dave: There you go. Smoothies, man, I love smoothies. 00:44:54 Susan: I know. 00:44:54 Speaker 6: Right? 00:44:55 Dave: Yeah. What’s your favorite smoothie? Do you have one type you love? 00:44:58 Susan: I am pretty, uh, I’m pretty classic in my smoothies. I don’t put a bunch of vitamins and stuff in them. I’m like, banana. a little bit of apple juice. And then I like strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, really thick. 00:45:13 Speaker 6: Super thin. 00:45:13 Dave: That’s so good. That’s so I’m going to get a smoothie today. That’s I’m glad we talked about glad we talked about this. Good. Okay. And, um, and maybe take us away with, uh, you know, I always love going back, you know, a little bit in the history. Did you was Vanderbilt, was that the university you studied at back in the day? 00:45:30 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:45:31 Dave: Vanderbilt, I don’t know much about, but describe where is it located and what was that like for you going to Vanderbilt? 00:45:37 Susan: Um, so I grew up in Houston, Texas, and Vanderbilt is in Nashville, Tennessee. And I feel a little bit like I was, uh, dropped on my head. I, I had not been to Tennessee. Um, it is a gorgeous state, beautiful, beautiful state. And, um, just a ton of fun. Um, the music, uh, I went skydiving the one and only time in my life in Tennessee. 00:46:08 Dave: And why did you choose Tennessee? Why did you choose Vanderbilt and Tennessee? Did you choose Tennessee or Vanderbilt? First. 00:46:15 Susan: I chose Vanderbilt and I think they were having a slow year. I got in early decision and I accepted and went. 00:46:22 Dave: Right because they’re they’re a pretty I mean, when I think of names, it seems like that’s a fairly prestigious college, right? I’m not sure if it’s I don’t I don’t know if it’s Ivy League, but it’s. Right. It seems like it’s got a name. 00:46:33 Susan: Yeah. And that’s why I say I think they were having a slow year. 00:46:36 Speaker 6: I think that’s. 00:46:37 Dave: Right. Yeah, totally. No, I love it. I think it’s it’s funny about the education, right? Because there was lots of people in the world that never went to college and are making, you know, millions and successful. Right. But I feel like college or something about college that for most people, it’s going to be a good thing for you to do, right? Because it just, you know, I don’t know, it gives you something that separates you a little bit, right? And just the experience is probably good. 00:47:00 Susan: Absolutely. And I think I think most people, if they had it to do all over again, they might do it wildly different. I think that I probably would have loved going straight into like a trade like, and I say a trade like hands on, like. 00:47:17 Speaker 6: Yeah, I’m going. 00:47:17 Susan: To go into. Yeah. And fewer books and, um, maybe just more hands on. I just. 00:47:24 Speaker 6: Totally. 00:47:24 Dave: I’m the same way. I’m totally the same way. I, I feel like that is like something that that’s my style. I go in learning from people, you know, watching a video on YouTube and, you know, rewatching it, right? I mean, and hands on and just doing it. I feel like the books thing for me, I’m more of the, obviously we’ve got an audio podcast, right? I mean, that’s always been more, more my thing than, you know, the reading and that’s fine. Right. I think, I think there’s a lot of people that aren’t, you know, maybe fully into having a giant library and that there’s nothing wrong with that. So, um, so good. Well, well, tell us this one thing on a photo tip. I just want to leave us with that because you had a photo of your photographer. What would be if you’re going to give somebody a tip. I’m not sure if you’re still in the photo space doing any of that, but what would you describe somebody on the water and they want a little tip to take better photos. What would you tell them today? 00:48:11 Susan: Get closer. 00:48:13 Speaker 6: Always get closer. 00:48:14 Dave: Closer. Really like like close. Like you can take a, like, right in on whatever it is and like. 00:48:20 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:48:20 Dave: Yeah. 00:48:21 Susan: Put on a pair of waders. Get out there and just get in closer. You will never regret getting a tighter shot. And I know people can crop and do all the things on the back end, but, um, it’s going to be a better shot if you can get in closer; always get closer, closer. 00:48:37 Dave: Love it. All right, Susan, I think we’ll leave it there for today. This has been amazing. We’ll send everybody out to casting for recovery dot org. And they can actually go to wet fly swing dot com slash R if they want to enter to win. And we’ll hopefully get some people joining and supporting. And I’d love to hear we’re excited to hear who wins. We’ll have to announce that when we get a winner of the trunk of the vehicle here. But thanks again for all your time, Susan. This has been great. 00:49:02 Susan: Thank you so much. This was a lot of fun. 00:49:06 Dave: Please, if you haven’t yet, go to casting for recovery dot org. Right now, support them. They’ve got some great stuff going, including this sweepstakes. We have our own boot camp going on right now as we speak. Wet fly swing dot com slash bootcamp. If you want to join. Get access to all of the speaker presentations that are going on right now. We’d love to have you there. This is our big focus this month. And then we’re going to be jumping into the next, uh, the next trip and the next event after that. Thanks again for stopping in. Please support our sponsors. Uh, anytime. Sullivan. Fly Rods and check in with Sullivan Fly Rods right now. Thanks again, and we will see you on the next episode. 00:49:44 Speaker 7: Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly Swing Fly Fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wetflyswing.com