WFS 992 Transcript 00:00:00 Dave: In Norway. June is known as the Salmon Window. A short stretch when fresh Atlantic salmon enter the rivers from the sea and a forty pound fish remains a real possibility. Today we’re heading to the rivers of Norway to learn how water level fly depth, casting technique and timing come together when fishing for Norway’s great Atlantic salmon. Jan Erik Granbo caught his first salmon at ten years old, won a Norwegian casting championship, produced a series of salmon fishing films and has spent roughly thirty years working with one of the biggest fly brands in the world. In this episode, you’re going to hear how Norway’s three year salmon cycle produces different sizes of fish and when to focus your trip where big salmon pause while moving through the currents, and where you can find those fish so you can present the fly. We’re going to talk about why he casts ninety degrees out, makes an upstream min, and the process that he uses to get the fly down to the fish during the June season. And what makes a sinking line take feel different from a surface take. We’re going to talk about why June is John’s favorite time of the year. Plus, we’re gonna hear about the riffle hitch and how he dead drifts bombers and how they fish them out there in Norway. You can follow Jan at Granbo Fly fishing on Instagram. You can also check in with Stefan, his son, on YouTube. You can go to toprod.no and on YouTube to watch all the videos we have today. This is going to be a good one. Here he is. Jan Erik Granbo. How are you doing, Jan? 00:01:30 Jan: Hello. I’m good. 00:01:31 Davve: Great. Great to have you on the podcast. We’ve been, uh, it’s been fun. We’ve been doing a lot of Atlantic salmon episodes as of late. We’ve been we traveled to eastern Canada today to Newfoundland and fished. We, we’ve talked to people, a lot of people in Eastern Canada. We haven’t in over the years. We’ve talked to some across the ocean, but today we’re going to get into Norway. We’re going to get into some of the fishing you do for Atlantic salmon. You’ve been doing this a long time, and then maybe we’ll give people some tips and tricks as we get into it. Does that uh. Does that sound like a good start? Or how are things going out there for you today? 00:02:02 Jan: Yeah, that’s okay for me. I can try to do my best. 00:02:06 Davve: Good. Well, we’ll start us off from the top. You’re in. Uh, probably. I’d say maybe one of the most famous places in the world for Atlantic salmon in Norway. Describe where you are for people that don’t know, like, what’s your home waters or, you know, what are you fishing out there? 00:02:20 Jan: Yeah, yeah. I live in the middle part of Norway. Uh, Trondheim is the, the name of the city. And, uh, in this area, we have, uh, about forty different, uh, rivers for Atlantic salmon. And I grew up very close to a river, so I start fishing when I was nine years old with a fly rod after the salmon. 00:02:45 Davve: Oh. No kidding. Nine years old. 00:02:47 Jan: Yeah. I caught my first salmon when I was ten years old. 00:02:51 Davve: Wow. And I, we’ve done some episodes on around there. We’ve done episodes on Denmark, on Sweden, Finland, you know, a little bit, kind of all those areas up there and the United Kingdom, right? All those. But Norway, what separates Norway from the other ones? What do you think it is? Is it just the you know, how is it different than, say, those other countries that are right around you? 00:03:12 Jan: Yeah. Norway. It’s very famous for the big Salmons. We have a lot of rivers. You can, uh, have a dream. You can catch your biggest salmon in your lifetime. So many rivers, you can do that. So I think that, um, but also the nature, the rivers is exciting to fish with a fly rod and the nature is beautiful and always, uh, opportunity to take our big salmon. So I think it’s because then. 00:03:42 Davve: Yeah, it’s a chance to get a big fish and what is a big sound? Because I know when we were out in eastern Canada, you know, there were some fish that, you know, I never saw a giant one. But, you know, and we did get a lot of grilse and things like that. But what is a big a big salmon in Norway? What’s the biggest one maybe you’ve seen of or heard or out there? 00:04:00 Jan: I mean, the old times, uh, they all catch salmon. Um on, I wrote down thirty five kilo, but uh, every year we, we caught salmon around twenty, twenty five kilo in different rivers. So I think that is about fifty five pound or something. 00:04:19 Davve: Actually, it’s even more. Yeah. Thirty five kilo. So thirty five kilos, twenty five kilo. 00:04:24 Jan: thirty five is the biggest. 00:04:26 Davve: Yeah. You’re right, you’re right. Twenty five kilos is fifty five pounds, which is, which is gigantic, right. So you’ve seen some fifty five pound. What’s a common one. And I know the numbers have been up and down. We’ve heard, you know, just really around the whole world. You know, there’s been you’ve heard some bad stories about things, but what is the status? Are there still some fish coming into Norway out there? 00:04:45 Jan: Yeah. Uh, of course it, uh, it is, but, uh, in the, in the last period since Day twenty four we have some problem with some of the rivers. So the. The government has closed that rivers in in period. But for the most, uh, the fishing is good in the the different rivers, but three or four different rivers have had some problems the last two or three years. 00:05:13 Davve: Yeah. What’s the best, do you think time wise? When does it open? When does it start fishing. Well and then how long you fishing throughout the year. 00:05:20 Jan: First of June. And, uh, when the big salmon came from the ocean up in the river, they are bright and beautiful and strong as hell. So I think June is the, uh, the, the, for the people will come and fish later in the season. It’s, uh, more difficult to catch the big ones. 00:05:40 Davve: Yeah. That’s right. Okay. So June and so May is tougher. So the best time. And then what happens as you go through the season, June and then into July, August, September, are there still opportunities. But it changes. 00:05:50 Jan: Yeah. But then the reverse is too small. We get very often low water condition. So it’s more difficult to catch them, but it’s more fun to catch them. If you can do it when the the situation is difficult. So often when the river is small, the water is warm, and then most of the fishermen thinks it’s more difficult to catch them. 00:06:13 Davve: Right. Gotcha. So June Roy, it’s a if you want to have a chance, probably June is a good month to plan your trip. 00:06:19 Jan: Yeah. They they come fresh up from the sea and they are really angry. And take your fly easily if you are there on the right point, on the right place. So June is the best month. 00:06:30 Davve: Cool. What is the setup you’re using there? You’re your two handed setup. I know around the the world the things change a little bit depending on really short stuff or longer rods. What would be your go to rod? And I guess it might change on the rivers. Or do you guys have a very diversity of size of rivers out there? 00:06:46 Jan: Yes we have. We have both big rivers and medium sized Rivers and small rivers. Uh, you. I heard about it. Maybe I shouldn’t even go there. It’s a big rivers with a lot of water. So in June, they fished with a fourteen or fifteen feet rod, and we use, uh, for the most sinking lines and big tube flies. So, uh, that’s the best things to, to do in high water and, uh, low, uh, temperature into the water. 00:07:19 Davve: Yeah. The Alta definitely. We’ve heard that is maybe it’s one of the famous rivers out there in the, in the gala, right? It was the other one you mentioned. 00:07:25 Jan: Yeah. And also the locks are, uh, that river is also up north in the country. 00:07:33 Davve: Yeah. And where are you located physically? Where do you live? Like what town are you in? 00:07:37 Jan: I live, uh, in a town called Churdan. It’s close to Trondheim. And, uh, this is in the middle part of Norway. So I have, uh, five minutes driving down to my local river. 00:07:51 Davve: That’s awesome. How do you spell that? The name of your town. 00:07:54 Jan: Uh, sure. It’s a strange name. 00:07:58 Davve: Well, Alta is. How do you spell that? Is that a l t a? Yeah. So you’ve got these two rivers. And what is it on the Alta. Because it feels like that’s one we hear a lot about. What is it? Maybe. How do you describe that river and is that one that you’ve you’ve done a lot of fishing on. 00:08:12 Jan: No, I don’t fish there. It’s too far away from my home. But, uh, no other people go there because the big Salmons and the NATO. 00:08:22 Davve: Do the salmon get bigger as you go to certain areas of the country, like further up north, they get bigger. Or how does that work? 00:08:29 Jan: No, it’s more, uh, some rivers have bigger salmons compared to other rivers. 00:08:37 Davve: Yeah. Depending on probably whether they’re the type of river. Right. If it’s a big river with many waterfalls or something like that. 00:08:43 Jan: That can stream and things like that. 00:08:47 Davve: Gotcha. Okay. So And I’m just looking. Yeah. So Norway is a really long, you know, skinny country, right? You’ve got you’re right on the coast. You’ve got the Oslo, which is on the south end of the country, right? You’ve got that. And then as you go up north, you get more into, would you say, just more kind of wild country as you get up, head up north. 00:09:05 Jan: That’s correct. 00:09:06 Davve: And Alta is up in that northern part, which is pretty, pretty remote. 00:09:10 Jan: Mhm. 00:09:11 Davve: So you talked about your rod. So what would be maybe let’s take it to one of your home waters you fish. Describe your Spey. Do you have one Spey, one two handed setup that you use or do you have a bunch of different types of lengths and weights of rods? 00:09:24 Jan: Yeah, yeah, I have too many rods. 00:09:27 Davve: Yeah. 00:09:28 Jan: I work as a salesman for guideline fly rods. Uh, so I, um, had a lot of rod, but, um, the basic rule that I fish with is, uh, fourteen feet in June. That is a double hander. And I also use, uh, thirteen feet class seven eight in July and I also fish with single handed rod. Then I use a ten feet class seven. 00:09:52 Davve: Yeah, ten foot seven way. Okay, so fourteen foot and thirteen foot. And then what are the what’s the line? How would you describe the line that you were using out there? Is this kind of a longer belly line or what’s the perfect line for that water? And you use a lot of snake tips, right? 00:10:06 Jan: Yeah. I’ve used a Scandinavia and a Scandi lines. So longer lines compared to the Skagit. Uh, in June we fished with sinking lines. We have short leaders and big flies. In July, the water is warmer and the water level is not so high. Then we use lighter lines. Uh, float, sink. You can use the float sink or float sink three, five and the flies is not so big anymore. And we also start to fish in the surface, dry flies with a single hand. Then in July and August. So that’s the basic, uh, the short story. 00:10:46 Davve: That’s it. Right. That’s the short story and guidelines, a great company, I mean, probably is guideline one of the I mean, definitely one of the bigger brands out there. Where is it located? 00:10:55 Jan: Uh, two places. We have one office in Sweden and one office in Norway. So I have worked for guideline in thirty years, so I’ve been there for a long time. 00:11:04 Davve: Yeah. You have. Oh, wow. So you’ve been there for a long time. How did you get started in in guideline? And I know you’ve done some education. Maybe talk about that. So you take us back. You said that you started got your first salmon, I think when you were nine. When did you realize that this was going to be, you know, something you could do as kind of a career? 00:11:21 Jan: Uh, I think that was in the middle of eighties. I do some casting, uh, competition, and I do it very well in the Norwegian championship and, uh, guideline picked me up because, uh, that, uh, then I start, uh, in the, to work in the team. I do, uh, demonstration and casting and fishing lessons and, uh, in the middle of nineties, I know in the end of eighties, I start to work as a salesman for guideline. And and I have been there since, uh, that time. 00:11:55 Davve: Yeah. You’ve been there a while. So you know, the lineup of guideline. How is guideline? And I’ve used some guideline. I actually used a rod. It was great. I took it out when we were fishing over there in eastern Canada. And I think it was actually a six piece, which was really cool. It was a six piece rod and um, yeah, it was great. It was a great trip. And I’m just, you know, I’m not a spey. I’m no expert. Right. So it’s, uh, I’m still getting better at the craft and all that. But as far as Spey, are there a bunch of different Spey companies out there or not? Spey, I guess two handed would be the better way to say that. A lot of two handed rod companies out in Norway. 00:12:28 Jan: Uh, yeah. We have we snare, they are working here. We have C and D Loomis and different, uh, rods, but, uh, guideline is the biggest in Norway and Sweden. Uh, we have worked for many, many years and we are a Norwegian and Swedish brand and people like that. 00:12:47 Davve: What did you say about the Swedish brand? 00:12:49 Jan: Uh, guideline is both both Swedish and English and brand. And we do all the testing, uh, uh, here and we do the products by yourself. We don’t, uh, go around in the world and buy some things and put the guideline brand on there. We test everything by by ourselves. The roads and the lines and everything. 00:13:13 Davve: Yeah. Is it focused? Is it really a guideline? I know you have everything in the lineup, but is it started with a two handed rods. You know, when it got I’m not sure when guideline got started, but has it always been a a big two handed focus or single handed rod is just as popular. 00:13:28 Jan: Uh, now the first, uh, maybe ten, fifteen years, we, uh, we was not well known as a salmon brand. So we do a lot of double handed rather than, I think it was in nineteen ninety three or something. We start a company. 00:13:43 Davve: That’s when you start expanding out into like, all the all fly fishing. 00:13:47 Jan: Yeah. So after a while, we made more and more trout rods. And, uh, today we have everything. If you fish pike or fish trout or grayling salmon, today we have everything. 00:14:01 Davve: Yeah. You do. Yeah. We’ve talked about that. That’s the other thing you have. Pike is a good one. What is if you take the overview, if we even go out broader on Norway fly fishing, what do you think are the the top species. Is it. I mean Atlantic salmon people are coming to Norway to fish. Is that is that the top one? And then maybe describe the species you have there. 00:14:18 Jan: Yeah, yeah. Uh, fly fishing is the Atlantic salmon is most popular. And then it’s, uh, trout fishing and maybe see trout into the coast. So not so many do it for the pike or in the saltwater. But, um, we have, uh, thousands of rivers and lakes. So, Salmon and brown trout is the most important. 00:14:43 Davve: It is. Yeah. That’s right. And then Pike is a much smaller. Although there are some people. Well, maybe it’s not out in that you’re right in your neck of the woods, but we’ve heard about some pike somewhere out in that area. But there’s some guys doing it right. 00:14:55 Jan: Yeah. They do it more in Sweden and Denmark. 00:14:58 Davve: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So it’s pretty, pretty straightforward. Salmon, brown trout and then sea trout, which are just migratory brown trout. Right. 00:15:05 Jan: Yeah. 00:15:06 Davve: Okay. And of course, if we were, if I was setting up a trip with some listeners, you know, right now, I would be thinking, you know, definitely thinking Atlantic salmon for a few reasons because you got a chance at a big one. What is what does it look like? I know, you know, I’ve done probably well, I’ve definitely done more steelhead fishing, you know, and steelhead always compared to that because there are some similarities. And it can be, you know, it can be challenging. Guys can go sometimes for years I’ve heard stories right, without catching their first fish. What is it like in Norway? I know numbers are up and down and all that stuff, but is it kind of like steelhead fish? I know if you if you get a shot at one fish, it seems like that’s a good day, right? Maybe sometimes you get more. What is it like in Norway if you go there and fish? I know. How do you describe it? 00:15:46 Jan: It’s the same if you catch one in a day, you are very happy. 00:15:51 Davve: Yes, there’s a lot more. There’s a lot more of. I feel like that’s why the two handed rods are kind of fun for a lot of people, is that, you know, you get into something new, you know, for you, you’ve been doing it for a long time. It sounds like, but a lot of folks are like, wow, this is something new. So when you’re out there maybe not catching fish, you’re practicing your craft on the on the two handed casting. I know you’ve done a lot of like, um, obviously, how did you get into early where you were doing comps? How did you learn about those? Where did you first hear about your first competition? 00:16:17 Jan: Yeah, it was an evening, uh, in, uh, the late eighties. I, um, I do some practicing with the river. I met a guy who asked me, why are you not casting into the Norwegian championship? Because he liked my casting. Uh, that was the first time I heard about it. And the year after I go there and I take the gold medal. 00:16:39 Davve: Oh, wow. 00:16:41 Jan: So I do a lot of practicing and fly casting. It’s, um, it’s my big things in this, uh, fly fishing after summer. I have a lot of fly fishing schools and learn people, uh, the Spey cast and the snake roll technique. 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Where can people find out more? Are you still doing those schools now? 00:18:06 Jan: No, I’m not doing, uh, in this period, but I want to start up maybe two or three years from now, but I don’t that in many, many years. So, uh, but in this period, I don’t, uh, do it. 00:18:18 Davve: Yeah. How did you do it when you were doing it before? What would that school would that be something where people were coming in person to? 00:18:24 Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I rent, I rent a good pool in a good, uh, river. And the people, uh, came to me, uh, all, uh, all was inclusive. The food and the, uh, the staying and the fishing caught on the instruction. So we started to learn the casting technique. We talk about the flies and the lines and the afternoon. And in the evening we fish. And then I do some guiding for my clients. 00:18:51 Davve: And what rivers would you be doing? Would you have one river you would be doing that on? 00:18:54 Jan: I do it in three different rivers, but for the longest time I stay in Gora. So many people came from all over Norway and we sit this fly fishing course. So that was a very, very exciting and very nice, I think. 00:19:10 Davve: Yeah. What got you out of doing the schools? Is it I imagine that that was a lot a lot of work putting in the effort. But what got you to move away from those? 00:19:18 Jan: No, it was um beginners very often who came to learn fly fishing. Uh, I do some, um, films about, uh, fly casting and fly fishing after salmon. And many people saw their films and they want to come and learn from me, so they Visit me on the fly fishing skills. 00:19:36 Davve: Right. And what were some of the films describe that? How did you how were those films produced? 00:19:41 Jan: Uh, now in the first time it was on DVD. 00:19:46 Davve: Yeah. Right. What was the name? Do you know, give us a name. One that we might be able to look up. 00:19:50 Jan: Uh, yeah, I bet it was for the most, uh, English. Uh, sorry, a Norwegian name, but, uh, I do, uh, a film. It’s very popular name. Um, uh, fishing somewhere in the river. And if, uh, if they go on YouTube, you search after Stefan Grambow is my son. And there you will find all my DVDs and all my films. 00:20:13 Davve: Oh, this is amazing. Okay, now we got something going here. Yeah. 00:20:16 Jan: So you have a lot of views, uh, of our YouTube channel. 00:20:21 Davve: Oh, good. We’ll get a link in the show notes to that, um, to the YouTube channel stuff. And that’s great. So he’s basically put all your, your videos that were out there. He’s put them on, on YouTube. 00:20:31 Jan: All done. Uh, done. You still make a DVD and no DVD anymore, but films? 00:20:38 Davve: Perfect. Yeah. So we’ll get these links in. And I’m seeing some photos now. Some big, big salmon for sure. Good. So we got a link there. We will, uh, we’ll be able to follow up on that. So yeah, you did these basically a lot of education around, you know, casting and salmon. What is the you mentioned the lines maybe describe that on the Scandi line. Is there one line that you really love that guideline has, if you’re going to pick it up that, you know, fishes the tube flies? 00:21:02 Jan: Well, no, not exactly, because I changed the line after the conditioning to the river, but I, I like to use the multi tip concept where you have a, the body on the tip so you can change the tip after how deep and how fast the stream is. So I fish maybe seventy percent of my time with multi tip line. And I can change from a floating tip to a heavy sinking tip after the conditioning to the river, right? 00:21:33 Davve: It depends on the flows and high water. What is the flow? You know that maybe is too high or color wise is too dirty. Do you have or what’s the. What would be a perfect condition for a on an Atlantic salmon day? 00:21:46 Jan: Yeah. If you can have a good, uh, water level. So the river is not, uh, too small. 00:21:52 Davve: Yeah, yeah. You don’t want it too skinny, but you don’t want it too big either. Do you want it on the the rise or on the down? Where do you want the flows doing? 00:21:59 Jan: Uh, down right after the river. And, uh, don’t rides anymore and stop and, uh, the water get, uh, lower. That’s the best period. And if you can have that in June and July and August, you have a really good opportunity to catch the fish. 00:22:16 Davve: Yeah. I’m looking at a video here. It looks like. Yeah, you had one with, uh, guideline casting DVD. It looks like I’m sure you had lots of that and then some other ones here. That was in twenty ten and it looks like, yeah, a bunch of lots of people have purchased your DVDs out there. This is great to hear you’re thinking about putting together the schools as you get it. If you did put those together, where would people in the future track you down? Where would it be a good place to find you if they wanted to learn more about it? Guideline, maybe. 00:22:43 Jan: I ran, um, a small company called Ground Ball Fly Fishing. Uh, and you find us on Instagram and on Facebook. 00:22:53 Davve: Yeah, we’ll have that out there as well. So people can take a look and follow up. Yeah. At a later point, if somebody is finding this in the future, they could check in with you and see if you have schools and we’ll look into that. Good. So we’ve got I think we’ve got a good start here with the high level. Talk about your classes. You talked about having a new person. Let’s say you had somebody who was fairly new with the Spey cast. Maybe they’ve done a little bit of it, but they haven’t done the snake roll. Some of those casts. Where do you start them? How do you get somebody going from kind of beginner up to the next level? 00:23:22 Jan: Yeah. I start, um, with the basic. I talk about the line on the, on the road then show them the basic technique and they start to try to cast by themselves. And I stood there with their with their side and talk with them so they can, um, learn the basic and, uh, have some, uh, casting together with them. And slowly they, they improve and I can help them over to spay and sacral, uh, and different techniques. So, but with the gears today, they’re good rods and the short lines, it’s not so difficult to learn it. 00:24:04 Davve: Right. Has it gotten since you go back to your the early days when you started over the years, has it changed a lot there with the length of rods and you know, all that stuff. 00:24:13 Jan: Now, the length of the rod is about the same, but, uh, the rods are much better today. They are lighter, they have more power. They are much, much better to cast with compared to the old, uh, we use the carbon rods and not the glass fiber anymore, so. 00:24:32 Davve: Yeah. Right. Yeah. They’re lighter, faster. And that’s the cool thing about the two handed rod, because back in the day, that was the challenge. They were so big, they were so heavy. And now they’re just light. And the lines to write the lines have evolved with them. 00:24:46 Jan: Yeah, yeah. They’re also shorter, easier to cast with. 00:24:50 Davve: Yeah, exactly. Do you still, when you’re in competitions, what is the setup you’re using and do you still do competitions out there? 00:24:58 Jan: No, I don’t have time to do it anymore because I work as a salesman for guideline and I have my own company. So I do a lot of guiding and traveling around in Norway and sell the guide and gear to the stores there. I have it very busy in the summer, so I haven’t time to do the casting competition anymore. 00:25:18 Davve: What are the shops like in Norway? Maybe describe that the places you’re going to. What is your as a salesman in Norway? Describe your week. 00:25:25 Jan: Yeah, I often try to travel a week, a full week because I have many stores I want to visit, and especially in the north part of Norway, it’s, uh, it’s difficult because it’s a long distance between the, the shops and, uh, I have to plan, uh, the work. Very good. So I visit them in day time and learn them about, uh, the gears. And in the evening, I take them out and let them try the gears. And, uh, so they buy the gear from me in the end of the day, right? 00:26:01 Davve: So you travel around to different shops and are there a lot of shops like maybe describe? I’m looking at one, I’m looking at the, the Rena fish camp, but I’m not sure if that’s a shop or if that’s like a lodge. I guess there’s McKenzie fly fishing. I’m looking. This is down near Oslo. I’m guessing Oslo has a lot more shops and things like that. Or describe that. Where are the shops located? Are they more located on rivers? Famous rivers? 00:26:23 Jan: No, they are located to the towns in the north. Um, if we talk about the town, uh, named also Alto and the river is very close to the town there also the same in Luxardo and in further up. 00:26:41 Davve: So the alto that’s way up north. Good. So basically you’re going around, you’re traveling, you’re meeting with shops and showing them some casting. That must be pretty cool. That’s the amazing thing about you since you’re, you know, kind of at the high level for casting. I’m sure that’s a surprise, a great surprise for people to, to have you come into the shop and they get to pick your brain about casting. Do you do a lot of lessons still kind of when you go around to the shops? 00:27:04 Jan: Yeah. And that job, I do that because I have to learn them to, to do the cast so they can feel the rod and the lines, and then they can give their, their customers the best voice which ruled on which line, who is best for the every customer. So we are working very hard with every shop. So I visit them many times during the year and every year. If you have a new range of rods for soccer, for example, I have to do some lessons and a demonstration in the spring. So we do a big demonstration and the people came and visit us and tried the rod and buy them from the shops. So that’s a nice part of the job to meet all the nice fishermen out there. 00:27:54 Davve: Yeah. That’s right. And are you driving? Would you drive from one end of Norway to the other as you’re doing? 00:27:59 Jan: No, they’re up in the north. I take a plane and a rental car. Yeah, because it’s too long distance to drive. 00:28:08 Davve: Yeah, but you could drive from the lower. Yeah. You probably drive around the lower southern part. You’re probably driving around all the places there. Yeah. What is the, um, you know, as you think about the fishing, you know, let’s take it to the river. Let’s say we’re on the river. We’ve got our setup. It’s June. What does that look like? Maybe describe how you’re fishing there. Like the pools you’re fishing. Are these all pretty much pools where you have to reserve ahead of time? Talk about that a little bit. And are there rivers are all the rivers you have to reserve spots or describe that? 00:28:37 Jan: Yeah, you have to buy a fishing card. That is the first thing you have to do. Uh, no. If I start when I start fishing, yeah, first of June, I like to fish, um, in the part of, uh, so close to the sea because not so many salmon are, uh, coming up into the valley so early in the season. So I start, uh, maybe from the middle part of the river and down to the sea. I fish, uh, for the most in, in June and, uh, some places, um, it’s best to catch the big salmon when they have stopped for resting in a place. And it’s very important to know where is the place the big salmon resting. Thing. So I use a lot of time to, to try to find that out, because then my fishing for a big salmon will be more effective. So I don’t, uh, do a cast here and there and go everywhere. I try to find out I need some special places. The, the big salmon like to stop. And if they have stopped for resting, maybe one hour or two hour, you have the best chance to, to catch it. Because when the salmon starting to swim up into, uh, up in to the river again, they are not so easy to take. So, uh, very much of the secret is, uh, to know where they have stopped and which line you should use to get your fly down to the salmon. 00:30:10 Davve: That’s it. Yeah. Because you’re fishing. Maybe describe a pool you. Because, you know, the pool, you would be fishing. Are they are they kind of, um, they’re holding in the pool. But are you catching him more in the tail, out or in the deep part of the pool? Describe how you’re fishing the pool. 00:30:25 Jan: Yeah, I think it’s two places. Uh, will be the best on, uh, the holding pool. Uh, the parula who are deep and, uh, maybe they are a downstream, uh, part who, uh, what is the English word where the river is, uh, more like a fall. So the water, it’s, uh, very fast. The, the big salmon want to stop downstream that part and rest there before they go through the, uh, the difficult place and also in the neck. It’s a very good place for the big salmons because many salmons are stopping, uh, to rest upside of this fall again. 00:31:08 Davve: Um, on the upper right. So there’s the, you got the falls or the rapids and then below it, they’re waiting to get their energy to go up it and then above it, when they get out of it, they’re tired. So they’re waiting above it in the. Yeah. Yeah. 00:31:18 Jan: That’s correct. So if you can have, uh, some places, uh, in that condition, you have a good, uh, opportunity to catch your fish or for life, right. 00:31:28 Davve: And like you said, there’s a lot of do you guys get on the size wise? We talked about the large upper end, the fifty five pounds. Do you get a lot of grilse like those types of fish in your area? 00:31:38 Jan: Yeah. They do not. 00:31:39 Davve: Yeah you do. And so that’s just a common which is great, right? Because you want to you want a mix of ages and classes of fish. Do you, do you find that you catch as many grilse as you do the bigger fish or you know, is there a mix? 00:31:52 Jan: Uh, it’s more, um, I try to explain, uh, one year we can have more, uh, small salmon compared to medium sized or big salmon. And the next year we have the most salmon in the medium size. And the third year we, we have more big salmons, if you understand. So, uh, we have always have all sizes, but, uh, every season we have more of one size? This area was a typical small salmon year, so next year will be a year for the medium size salmon and twenty nine will be a new big salmon year again. 00:32:31 Davve: Oh no kidding. So you have these three year cycles kind of every small, medium, large. When do you know what’s going on there? Why there’s these cycles. And does it pretty much stay that way every three years? 00:32:41 Jan: Yeah, that’s a very difficult system to understand from the nature side of the salmon’s life. But some of the salmon go out from the river only after a year, but some, uh, some salmon stand there in three years before they go out in the sea and also opposite. And this system will secure, uh, that we always have salmon into the sea and into the river. So it’s a safe system from, uh, the nature. 00:33:13 Davve: Yeah. Something crazy happens. Some environmental change. Then you’ve got these other age classes that you know, so that can come out. And that’s why you have the big ones, which are the big ones are how long are they out on the ocean? Like if you say one of those big, the big size fish. 00:33:27 Jan: Yeah. From the, um, I don’t know the English word, but the young salmon, when he gets out in the sea, he’s down in the sea three years before he returned. And then he is a big salmon. They can also stand there for a three, four or five years. But the three years, I think, is the more common. 00:33:49 Davve: Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. That’s cool. Yeah. I’m always comparing it, like I said to steelhead. But also you have Pacific salmon, which is similar. You know, Chinook salmon are probably size wise, the salmon most closely to the Atlantic salmon. But they’re totally different. I think I think there’s a lot more differences between those two. And the other cool thing about Atlantic salmon is you have these fish that they’re not all dying, right? They spawn and then they can go back out. Do you ever find that or is that something that, you know, I’m sure that’s a rare fish to find, right? A fish that comes in and then goes back and you see it back. How common do you think that is? Or is that something? Could you even tell if a fish has been out and come back? 00:34:25 Jan: Yeah, they can come back and spawn two and three times. And if they came back for the third time, they are really big. 00:34:33 Davve: Yeah. They’re big. Those are the Giants. What do you think are the um you know, kind of on the conservation side. Is it is it hard to figure out what’s going on down there. Do you think some of the scientists know, you know, what’s going on with these ups and downs, with the runs? 00:34:47 Jan: Ah, I think, uh, the biggest problem is the farm industry. Oh, it’s a lot of problems they made for the wild salmon. 00:34:55 Davve: Yeah. All the diseases and like, all that part of it. 00:34:58 Jan: Yeah, yeah. 00:34:59 Davve: Yeah. Right. Basically you got the farms, the the kind of ocean net pins, right. 00:35:03 Jan: Yeah. That’s, that’s the second biggest problem because they catch a lot of salmon in the net in, in the sea, but into very, very. Can’t take so many salmons you have in some rivers you can kill two salmons. 00:35:21 Davve: Oh, you still you can still kill salmon in the rivers while you’re fishing. 00:35:25 Jan: Yeah. Uh, and, uh, but the rules is different from river to river, so, uh, but, um, the strongest rules is, uh, to salmon, but, uh, that salmon cannot be over sixty five centimeter. Uh, that’s a small fish you can take. Not a big ones because they are very important. Uh, so we have them in the river to, to spawn, right? 00:35:49 Davve: Gotcha. So you have the, there’s a certain size that you can’t kill. There’s a they’ve. Right. So those sixty five. Okay. So good. Well, and what about, you know, if we were sitting here planning a trip and maybe we wanted to head out there, what would be the best way to plan this? Is it better to call a lodge? Could we call you like, what’s the what’s the best way to plan a trip? If you’re new to Norway, maybe you’ve never been there. 00:36:10 Jan: I think you should first decide which we really want to go to. 00:36:14 Davve: Yeah. Let’s say it’s the river. You’re you’re kind of. Can you say that again? The river, the bar? 00:36:18 Jan: Yeah. Uh, sir, those are very aware of. Sir. 00:36:24 Davve: Let’s say we were coming to one of those rivers in nearer to your home. Water. Hometown. How would you recommend we start that planning process? 00:36:31 Jan: Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s a three different ways to do it. You can, um, buy fishing cards from the, the local fishing club. They sell their card with a fishing card for a week and for a whole season. And then you have a opportunity to fish from many, many different pools. So that’s a good way to do it. Uh, the next way we have, uh, a website called RV garden. Uh, there you can buy fishing card for some pools they sell. And the last way to do it is to take contact with The the former directly. 00:37:13 Davve: Owe the landowner directly. 00:37:15 Jan: Yeah, the landowner directly. But, uh, um, you should start to do it early the year before. 00:37:22 Davve: Year before. Yeah, about a year before would be good. So if we were, if we wanted to go on a trip in June, probably we’re almost too late right now, but you could check right now on it. 00:37:31 Jan: Oh, September. I think you have to do it or earlier because it’s very popular. So if you do it in November, December, maybe you can’t get some fishing people plan, uh, because the it’s, it is important for them. 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Today’s show is brought to you by Visit Idaho and Yellowstone Teton Territory, a place that should be on every angler’s list, from the Henrys Fork to the South Fork of the snake, and all the hidden creeks and alpine lakes in between. This region is built for fly fishers who like a little room to roam. You can head over to Wet Fly swing dot com right now for guides, lodges, and trip ideas to plan your next adventure. That’s Teton t e t o n. And then there’s also some lodges right out there. Could you connect with a lodge and go that route too? 00:39:07 Jan: Yeah. All of the different rivers have load chests where we can stay, and you have guides and everything is included. That’s a good way to do it. 00:39:17 Davve: So there’s some options for sure out there. It sounds like it’s gonna like anything, right? You’re going to have to figure out the details on, you know, whether you want to do it yourself or do the lodge style, but it’s cool to hear there’s ways to do it. You could, you know, even if you wanted to DIY it, get over there, get a car. And just like you said, get that pass and maybe cover a bunch of rivers or a bunch of pools. You don’t have to stick with just one, right? 00:39:38 Jan: Yeah, yeah. It’s not sort of a long distance between the river. 00:39:43 Davve: Yeah. And like you said, there’s a lot of rivers. There’s literally hundreds of salmon rivers that you could fish there. 00:39:49 Jan: Yeah, totally. Norway it is. But in, in my um area I have about forty different rivers. So that’s a lot of rivers. Yeah. 00:39:59 Davve: Good. Well, this is awesome. I think we’re getting a nice high level look at this picture of this. So I’m thinking if we’re, you know, planning that trip maybe for June, maybe it’s twenty twenty eight. Maybe we’re going to plan it out a little bit further. And we’re going to look at that June period. Is there a period in June? Is it kind of I guess it depends on flows, right. That’s part of the thing, right? If you’re getting a low flow condition that might not be good. Is there a is it easy to plan that or is it all it’s all weather dependent over there. 00:40:23 Jan: Yeah. Very important. How the weather is uh, actually it’s important to how the winter is because, uh, if you don’t have so much snow during the winter, the rivers will not be so big in, in the start of the season. So, uh, it’s very, very important that we have a lot of snow because then we will have good condition into the river when we start the fishing. 00:40:47 Davve: Yeah. The snow is key. Yeah. Having the snowpack. So that’s the challenge, right? Just like all these anatomist fish. It’s tough because you’ve got water conditions. You got run timing, right? You could come in, get there in the run, maybe isn’t there quite there. Or maybe it’s too late, you know, maybe you miss it. So I feel like the best way to to avoid that is to put more time. Maybe instead of just going there for a few days, you want to be in Norway, maybe for a few weeks or a month to make sure to cover it. 00:41:13 Jan: Are at least a week. My son ran a company called Top Rod. 00:41:18 Davve: Oh. Top rod. Okay. 00:41:20 Jan: And they, uh, they work, um, they sell guiding. You can buy some guiding from them. 00:41:27 Davve: Oh, cool. Now, what is that? How does that work? 00:41:29 Jan: Uh, you send them an email, tell them what you want. Uh, you can do that very early. Long time before you go. 00:41:37 Davve: What’s the website? What would the website be? 00:41:39 Jan: Top rod dot com maybe. I am not sure. They start this, uh, company this year. Then you can, uh, have a chat with your guide during the autumn and in the winter, and he can tell you about, uh, how much snow we have or not. 00:41:57 Davve: Oh, wow. 00:41:58 Jan: So we can have some, um, hands on information before you. 00:42:02 Davve: Oh. Amazing. 00:42:03 Jan: Yeah. 00:42:03 Davve: Yeah, I’m looking at now. Yeah, I got it’s top drawer dot n o slash e n. 00:42:08 Jan: Dot ten where it is for Norway. 00:42:11 Davve: Yeah. From Norway. Top rod. It’s got guide service. It’s really cool. It’s got, uh, the gala, a bunch of the rivers and. Okay, so this is another great resource. So basically what you’re saying is people can come in, go to top rod and they can get information to plan their trip. 00:42:24 Jan: Basically, they can have voice about the rivers, the pools, and we have local guides who can help, uh, help you, uh, in that river you want to go in. So that is a very, very good service. 00:42:37 Davve: Oh, this is great. Okay, so we’re building some good resources. So we’ll have that one that will follow up with as well. And it looks like looks like he’s also got some casting lessons, group events and stuff there too. So it sounds like your son is your son, uh, kind of following your footsteps a little bit on what you. 00:42:54 Jan: I can promise you that. 00:42:56 Davve: Yeah. Do you have now? I have a couple daughters, so I’m always thinking about that. Right? Like in the future, did you think your son was going to be getting in this and do you have other kids too? 00:43:05 Jan: I hope so. Yeah. No, he has two kids. One girl and one boy. So I hope so. Uh, he won’t, uh, try to let them, uh, do it, so. But, uh, the daughter is only three years, and the son is three months, so it’s too early to know. 00:43:22 Davve: Okay. Not too far. Well, if you were at nine, right? It’s about six years that you’re maybe your gran. 00:43:29 Jan: Stefan, my son called, uh, catch the first one when he was seven years old. 00:43:34 Davve: There you go. Seven years old. What river was he on there? 00:43:39 Jan: And I stood there with. He saw it and was very, very proud. Father. 00:43:43 Davve: No kidding. What was that fish like? Was that a, uh, a grilse or was that a bigger fish? 00:43:47 Jan: A green small salmon? But that, uh, was not so very important. Uh, it was a good experience anyway. 00:43:55 Davve: Yeah. The girls. I feel like when we caught grilse, you know, again, I haven’t done a lot of Atlantic salmon, so, I mean, I was happy catching any Atlantic salmon. The grilse were great. You know, I feel like it’s just. It’s still an adult fish, right? 00:44:06 Jan: Yeah. And the fish with, like, the gear, we use a single handed rod on them. So they’re it’s a really good sport. Small flies, maybe dry flies, floating lines. It’s very exciting. 00:44:18 Davve: Yeah. How do you do your dry fly setup? Is that do you do, are you doing like a riffle hitch in that or how are you doing? Yeah. 00:44:26 Jan: That’s the most popular way to do it. But, uh, also, uh, bombers and bombers is, uh, popular. You can fish them upstream with that drift. And we can also swing them with the, uh, on a normal way to cast. They can do it, uh, both upstream and downstream. And, uh, it’s really nice when a big salmon came up and take your YouTube. 00:44:51 Davve: Wow. Yeah. How did they take it when you, if you’re fishing a dry fly on the surface, how does a big salmon eat it? Do they eat it a lot of different ways or is it usually the same way? 00:45:01 Jan: No. It’s different. The riffling hitch. They can explode when they came and take it. You can see the salmon into the surface before you take the fly. Uh, but, uh, when we fish, uh, upstream with the drift, you only see the head came up and take the fly and, uh, and went down to the bottom again. But the hitch, they are more aggressive. I don’t know why, but, uh, it’s like that. 00:45:28 Davve: Yeah. And they’re pretty. So. And that says, you know, like you said, you start in June, the water is higher, you’re fishing sinking lines as you get into as the water drops is July. Is that the time where it starts getting to more surface or is that more August? 00:45:40 Jan: Yeah. For the most, uh, the latest part of June. And, uh, during July, we get always, uh, small water and, uh, higher temperature into the water and then it’s dry fly time. 00:45:55 Davve: Then as the summer goes, do you get a period where in some rivers it’s getting a little bit too warm, and then you wait until the fall to pick it back up. Or are you fishing through the whole summer? 00:46:04 Jan: Yeah, different. Sometimes they close the river if it’s too warm because you can’t release the fish if the water is too warm. But they open the river again when the weather or changing. 00:46:18 Davve: Right. So that’s again, it’s no different there than anywhere. Like we’re all dealing with the warmer temperatures, right? Yeah. So okay. But it sounds like, yeah, like you said, we’re going to be looking at a time June might be a good time and. 00:46:29 Jan: The best period, I think because if you go from USA to Norway, I think you do it because the big salmon that’s June is the best month. I call it we have some salmon windows. I try to tell my people on the fly fishing school, and then the salmon window is open in June. 00:46:52 Davve: Yeah, right. The salmon window is being your chance at a at a trophy a trophy salmon. Yeah. That’s cool. I yeah, I think that for sure. I think most people or a lot of people would be thinking Norway. Yeah. Because it’s you got a chance at a, a trophy. But I think it’s just being there. Right. And, and catching anything would be pretty amazing, right? Because you’re you’ve got all that tradition. Do you think about that sometimes when you’re out there, just the history of, you know, how fame. I’m not even sure where it all started with the two handed rods. But you’re in one of those places where, you know, before it came to the where I’m at and around the world, it started where you are. 00:47:24 Speaker 3: Yeah. No. 00:47:25 Jan: The story is actually, um, the English lords, English, the English, uh, fishermen. The lords came to Norway in the start of eighteen hundred and, uh, they came and do the fly fishing, the spey casting and learn, uh, the landowners, the, the technique and, uh. Yeah. 00:47:48 Davve: All right. When they came to eighteen hundreds, were there people in Norway that already had the two handed stuff going on there? 00:47:54 Jan: They know they only fish in the river with a net on that time because it was food for them. 00:48:00 Davve: Yeah. So those so the Englishman came over, brought over their gear that they’re using, probably because they were hammering their waters by that time and that Norway was the better place to go to. 00:48:10 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:48:10 Jan: And, uh, a one man can buy or rent a whole river. They build new houses. They have a doctor and, uh, stuff with them, so they have the best. So it was a really nice, uh, period. 00:48:28 Davve: Okay, good. So that was a little bit on the, just the history. I think today we’re doing a lot of high level stuff. Hopefully we can follow up with you and maybe do a deeper dive on some of the other rivers in that area. But let’s take it out of here really quick with our rapid fire round. We’re going to chat on this today. You know, we haven’t gone deep into the the real nitty gritty tips and tricks sort of thing, but maybe give us a couple of tips. Let’s just say we plan this trip. We’re coming out there in June. We’ve got our our gear, our guideline rod, the lines. What is something you’d be telling us as we’re kind of getting on the water? What advice do you give somebody for their first time swinging flies out there? 00:49:04 Jan: Yeah, it can be different depending on the condition into the river, but. 00:49:09 Davve: Let’s say it’s a higher let’s say it’s the river is kind of moderate. It’s not low. It’s in the June. You’re using some maybe some heavier sinking lines. 00:49:18 Jan: Yeah, yeah. You have to bring, uh, you have to bring a sinking line with you, but you also have to manage to cast with the sinking line. So do some practicing. So you are, uh, you can do the casting because it’s difficult to cast with sinking lines compared to a floating line. And you have to also bring, um, big flies and fish with flash wings, a big tube flies with flashing into the wing. 00:49:44 Davve: Yeah. How long are those tube flies. 00:49:46 Jan: Are the biggest. We can use this about fourteen centimeter. The wing length is a quite big fly. 00:49:53 Davve: Yeah it is. And big and heavy too. Two are the flies weighted as well? 00:49:56 Jan: Yeah, different. We can have them on plastic tubes but also with weights. So that’s depend on how the the stream is in the place where you’re fishing and how deep it is. And we fish with the short leader so we can bring the fly in the same depth as the fly line. 00:50:12 Davve: Yeah. Like how short would a short leader be? 00:50:15 Jan: The shortest leader I use is about one meter. 00:50:18 Davve: So one meter in length. And then what would be the. So if you’re using a real heavy sinking line, getting it down there, you would want to probably a one meter length line or leader. 00:50:26 Jan: Yeah. Then you are in a good position to catch the big one. And we have some techniques when we do the casting. So we make sure we can get the flies deep as possible on every cast. And we use this up upstream mending. So we do a mending with the rod upstream. So we get a good angle when the on the line, when it’s hit to the water and then the line go deeper down compared to if you cast directly on a forty five degrees angle? 00:50:57 Davve: Yeah. How far up are you casting more? How far upstream? 00:51:01 Jan: About ninety. Ninety degrees on a cast. And I do an upstream mending, and I walk down two three meters before I start to swing the fly. 00:51:11 Davve: Oh, okay. So yeah, so basically, if the water is high, you cast straight out at ninety, and then you walk a couple feet a few feet to help it sink down. And then you start your swing. Yeah. And you mend and you put a big mend in it upstream. 00:51:23 Jan: Yeah. And if you don’t catch the fish on the first run, you change the line. But do that to a heavier line. 00:51:31 Davve: Yeah. Are these fish sitting when it’s heavy like that or are they sitting in um kind of the edges of the pools or are they down right at the bottom. Where do you think they are? 00:51:40 Jan: I would define them from the middle part of the, the river compared to the the depth, if you understand. So from the middle part of the depth down to the bottom. 00:51:50 Davve: Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. They’re down. So they’re down deep. They’re holding deep when it’s, it’s getting high. 00:51:54 Jan: Yeah, yeah. And it’s quite difficult to get the fly there if the river is big and the stream is, uh, the current is fast. So that’s the, the deal we have to work with, uh, with the fly fishing because you have to get the, your fly and the line against, uh, the upper part of the water and down to the middle part. That’s the, the, the real deal. And if you do that and have a big fly, you have a good opportunity to catch the big salmon. 00:52:23 Davve: Do you have a better chance to catch big salmon when it’s kind of high like that versus the low lower in Clearwater, or does it matter? 00:52:30 Jan: No. It’s, uh, best if the river is high and also some color into the water because the big salmon don’t like the the low water condition, then they stand on places where we nearly can’t find them, right? 00:52:43 Davve: Yeah. They hide, they tuck away there. Right. So yeah. So you want to get down basically down and deep get down. What’s the take? Like when you get a. You’re swinging that fly. What is that first? What happens when you feel a fish on there? Does it take hard. 00:52:57 Jan: That’s the most beautiful moment in the life. 00:53:01 Davve: Right? Is it usually an aggressive. Let’s take it and run. Are they. Do they ever take it kind of subtle. 00:53:06 Jan: For the most. They take the fly slowly. So you. You feel the salmon very slowly and it turns. When he takes the floor, he turn and go back to the place he came from, and he. Do that slowly and you will tighten up your loins, uh, successfully, if you understand. Yeah. So, uh, you you have two, three seconds before you need to lift the rod and set the hook. 00:53:32 Davve: Right? So you feel it, you feel it, and it turns, and then it’s going down. 00:53:38 Jan: And you will feel, uh, the pressure of the loin will be heavier and heavier. And then you can lift the rod and you can set the hook. So it’s quite, uh, different compared to salmon who take a fly on on the floating line. If I can choose, I will have them on the sinking line because that’s their best feeling into the world. 00:54:00 Davve: Yeah. Oh, so the sinking line is if you had to choose between dry line sinking you like fish in the sinking line. 00:54:05 Jan: Yeah. Because, uh, that gives me a much more big salmons. And, uh, I like to fish after the big salmon. That’s the, uh, it’s it’s the big because, uh, the, that I do it. 00:54:19 Davve: Right. Well, and that’s the thing you’ve done. You’ve been doing this a long time. So I can imagine you’ve caught lots of different sizes, but it is kind of cool to think, you know, and that’s what’s fun about it because you never know, right? That next fish, no matter what the run year is like, whatever, you always have a chance to get that one. That’s, you know, that thing, which is, you know, just this amazing big fish. And are there still some, do you feel like there’s still some of those, those really big fish out there, or are they mostly smaller now? Like what would be the largest fish that the largest fish that you might see this year is that is that smaller than it would be, say, twenty years ago? 00:54:52 Jan: No. Uh, you have still the chance of, um, forty pounder, but, uh, of course we, we don’t have so, so many salmons we have compared to twenty years ago. But you have still a good chance on, uh, the big one. 00:55:08 Davve: You do. So that’s it. So yeah, so the numbers aren’t quite as big as they used to be, but the size of an individual fish, you still have a shot and that’s what’s cool. 00:55:16 Jan: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. 00:55:17 Davve: Okay. Good. Nice. Well, this has been good, I think, um, today let me just I’m just going to roll through a couple of these, uh, quick ones here and then we’ll take it out of here. We mentioned you mentioned your son has got a program going for you. It sounds like you’re still on track with guideline. Anything new you want to give a shout out on guideline that they have coming out? Uh, I’m guessing they have a lot of stuff coming. How do you keep up with all the new gear that’s coming out? 00:55:40 Jan: Yeah, there are different reasons, uh, for that. Yeah. I rode, uh, Our range of rods. If you have that in five years in assortment, they are not so popular. So we. During five years many things has happened with the the materials. So we, we, we make better and better rods because we get better and better materials. I think about the, the carbon. So um, for the rods, that is the reason we, we change and we, we, every time we came with our new world range, it’s a better range compared to the last one. 00:56:20 Davve: So you’re always, yeah. Every five years you’re getting a new. 00:56:22 Jan: Yeah. About every, every five years because, uh, the industry who make, uh, the graphite material, they work every time, every year with new materials. And they developed, uh, this material to be better and better, lighter and more powerful every time. So, uh, it’s crazy how good our rod can can be. And I think the road we have now is also very, very good. So it’s, uh, it’s strange to believe we can make some better road, but we, we actually, we can do that. 00:56:57 Davve: Yeah. And I mean, we were fishing, like I said, I had that six piece rod. And I think that there was a time when people didn’t think six piece rods were even doable. Have you seen some of those out there? Is that a rod that’s popular getting more popularity? I felt like for traveling, it was really nice having a six piece. 00:57:12 Jan: Yeah. There are fishermen who live in the river. They buy a four piece rod, but the people who, uh, traveling, uh, maybe they’re playing or something, they, they like to buy this six piece rod. So we have the six speed rod in, in different, uh, ranges. 00:57:27 Davve: Yeah. That’s right. Have you over the years, um, wanted to, uh, have you fished other rivers outside of Norway? Imagine you’re in such an amazing place, it might be hard to leave, but have you fished for Atlantic salmon in other areas? 00:57:40 Jan: I have been in Scotland. 00:57:42 Davve: Oh, nice. 00:57:43 Jan: In UK because I, um, I also, uh, work in UK, I do some casting demonstration and have some, uh, lessons over there, but, uh, no, it’s difficult for me because I have so many rivers close to my house, so I really don’t need to go, uh, any places. 00:58:05 Davve: No, you’re not gonna. There’s no other place you can go to have a shot at a one of these big ones, right? This is the place to go to get a good shot. 00:58:12 Jan: Yeah. For me, because it’s so easy for me during the summer. We have a short season. It’s only June, July and August. And in the same time it’s very hurry in my work. So it for me, uh, in this period, it’s very easy to go to my home river and do some good fishing there. Maybe later when I stop working, I can go to other rivers. But in this period, uh, I think it’s best for me to go to the Narrow Rivers. 00:58:40 Davve: Yeah. Gotcha. Wow. Yeah. And I guess the one random one I’ll give you before we get out of here was just on, you know, Norway in general. So you’re fishing. Obviously, people are going to be coming there because they want a shot at one of these Atlantic salmon, these giant fish opportunities. But what else are people doing in Norway if you’re not fishing? What are things that are keeping people busy? What’s the you know, if you’re not fishing, what else are you doing? Do you have other hobbies or is it all fishing all the time? 00:59:04 Jan: Yeah, people love to use the nature. Uh, we are, we are very, um, a lot of the Norwegian, uh, go cross cross country skiing into the winter. And we also use the mountains almost the whole year. Only December and January is not so good into the mountain, but, uh, in the summer and the spring and in the, in autumn, we are, we are walking into the mountains. 00:59:33 Davve: Right? Yeah. Lots of walking, hiking, just kind of outdoor activities. 00:59:36 Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, that’s my second best things to do. So I, uh, I have a cabin, uh, up in the mountains and. Oh. You do? Yeah, I, I often walk into the mountains on, uh, so I love to do that. 00:59:52 Davve: Yeah. Do you do some skiing? 00:59:54 Jan: Yeah, I do that. 00:59:55 Davve: Yeah. I feel like skiing. There’s a good overlap. There’s lots of fly fishermen that also are skiers right out there. It’s pretty common. 01:00:02 Jan: Yeah. They, uh, they said the Norwegian is born, uh, with skis. Yeah. 01:00:08 Davve: Right. Did you start skiing before you started fly fishing? 01:00:11 Jan: Uh, yes. Uh, yes, I do that because, uh, we have to do that. 01:00:17 Davve: You have to do that. Who got you into fly fishing for the first time? 01:00:20 Jan: Uh, a friend of mine started to do it, and, uh, and I get, I tried his fly rod and was sold, uh, with the first cast, I think. 01:00:31 Davve: Yeah. What was the first rod you had? What was the first? That first rod your friend gave you? 01:00:35 Jan: Uh, that was, uh, from a local, uh, fabric called the, that company is not anymore. 01:00:43 Davve: Not around. Was that a two handed rod? 01:00:45 Jan: The rod. So a glass, a glass fiber. I think that is the English word. 01:00:49 Davve: Yeah. Glass. Yeah. That’s right. 01:00:51 Jan: Not a carbon rod. 01:00:52 Davve: Not carbon. Yeah. Wow. So you got that early. So a friend of yours gave you this rod and then you kind of took it, right? Took it all the way to the top. Pretty much. 01:01:00 Jan: Yeah, yeah. You can say that I have used, uh, for most all of my part in my life to do this. And I also work with a really one hundred percent. So fly fishing after Atlantic salmon is my life. 01:01:16 Davve: Yeah, it’s pretty amazing. Do you feel with Atlantic salmon, are you as you look at I know we don’t know, you know everything that’s going on. But do you feel pretty confident, you know, as far as the downturns that we’re going to still have Atlantic salmon in the future? What’s your take on all that? 01:01:30 Jan: Uh, yeah, in my heart, I hope so. Absolutely. But, uh, it’s some questions about it. Uh, it is not because we don’t know how the government will do this farming and protect. 01:01:46 Davve: Right. Protect the fish. Right. Yeah. Because that’s the government. The government’s actually doing the farming out there. 01:01:51 Jan: No, no, but they decided the rules. Uh, so, uh, the salmon farming is a very important thing. Uh, in Norway, we sell a lot of, uh, fish, uh, to other countries. So it’s a very important thing for the economy in Norway. So because then the government, um. 01:02:10 Davve: Yeah, has money. Yeah. 01:02:12 Jan: So, uh, I think it’s the, the, the question is so big. So I, I, I haven’t all the answers. 01:02:19 Davve: No, you don’t, nobody does. That’s the, that’s the challenge, right? There’s no, there’s a lot of different things that are playing into it. And I can imagine your government probably also realizes the importance of the wild fish coming back. Right. And not only for fly fishing, but just for the natural areas, you know, that you guys live in. If you lose Atlantic salmon, you know, like Norway isn’t the same place, right? 01:02:41 Jan: No, but I, I, I have a bad feeling. They don’t care. 01:02:45 Davve: Oh, really? No kidding. 01:02:47 Jan: Yeah. It’s sad to say it, but, uh, it’s close to the truth. 01:02:52 Davve: That is. That is sad. Yeah, it’s one of those things because you. I mean, you kind of get, you know, on one end because it’s like, yeah, of course you’ve got to have money to sustain, you know, that whole thing. But but then again. Yeah. Without, without the wild fish that is, that’s a, that’s a tough one. 01:03:05 Jan: Yeah. We have no this problem twenty years ago. So they have a lot of opportunities to, to do something. But they, they don’t do it. 01:03:16 Davve: So in twenty years nothing much has changed with the the the farming. No. Yeah. It’s pretty much the same deal. So there’s still issues with disease and fish escaping and. 01:03:26 Jan: Yes. They have uh, the nets they use in the sea is open. So, um. Uh, that’s the big problem. But, uh, today we have technology for using closed nets into the sea or bring the farm up to to the land. But it’s so very expensive for the company to do it so they don’t do it. But maybe if the government said that they have to do it, then they can change. And that would be a very, very good. But so far nothing happened. 01:04:01 Davve: So that’s yeah, we’ll have to do a little follow up on that, on the technology, on how all that works. But there’s some ways you could still do it and be more protecting, right? Of the wild species. 01:04:11 Jan: Yeah, they have the technology, but it’s too expensive. Uh, so they don’t buy it and start to use it. So, uh, the fish is still in open nets into the fjord. And, uh, that’s the problem. 01:04:25 Davve: That’s the problem. Well, it’s good to know that there might be a solution there too. That’s a, that’s a positive, right? The fact that they might be able to change their practices and then maybe that’ll help in the future. Well, this has been great. I think it’s that’s obviously this is a huge topic. We can leave maybe for another one. Is there a, you know, a group out there, like a local group, a conservation group or somebody people could follow to help support? Is there folks doing that, trying to help, you know, protect the species out there? 01:04:49 Jan: Uh, yeah, it’s, uh, different groups who try to do it, but, uh, it’s very, very difficult to get them to understand. So we have, uh, different groups and, uh, two companies who try to do, to do it and talk to the government, but they don’t listen and they just talk and talk and talk and, uh, nothing happen. But so it’s very hard and long fight, uh, to fix this problem. 01:05:21 Davve: Yeah. It’s not going to be an easy one. Well, I think what we can do is just, uh, you know, stick with it. What? We’ve shed a little bit light on it for people listening now so we can head over and maybe follow up with you or your son. We’ll put links to your website there to the, uh, the top rod and, uh. Yeah. Until we, uh, until we, maybe we can follow up with you on that next one. We can talk more about all the, uh, you know, things we can do differently, but I’m hoping we can get a trip together over there, too. We’ll get some people and we’ll follow up with you. But thanks, John, for all the time today. Uh, we’ll catch you here maybe on the next one. Thanks again. 01:05:50 Speaker 4: Thank you. 01:05:52 Davve: All right. Hope you enjoyed that one. As always, your call to action today is to pick up that rod and get some practice in. Get on the water. Let’s work on that snake roll and get it going this year. And if you want to check in with anything we have going here on the videos, check in with YouTube. We mentioned it before. John’s son Stefan has all of the past classes on that YouTube channel. You can do that right now if you’re interested in connecting with our educational series, we have the fly fishing boot camp. We’re just getting ready. It’s coming up very soon. We’re going to be launching our biggest event of the year, actually the biggest event of all time. We’ve got twenty plus of the greatest speakers around. You can go to wet fly swing dot com slash bootcamp right now and get more information, you can sign up there. We’ll let you know when we open the doors to the fly fishing boot camp. It’s going to be a big one this year. We’ve got some cool added things. We’re doing some live sessions and all that, so stay tuned this week as well. We’ve got uh, this week and then next week we’ve got the Great Lakes dude. Jeff Lisk is back for the Great Lakes podcast that’s coming next week. And then if you want to connect with us more on any of these, you can check in here, uh, Dave at webplace dot com. If you have any questions, please send me an email and we will catch you on the next one. Thanks again and have a great morning, afternoon, or evening wherever you are in the world. And I hope to see you swinging flies out there. We’ll talk to you soon. 01:07:10 Outro: Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly Swing Fly Fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit Wet Fly swing dot com.