00;00;01;29 – 00;00;18;28 Dave What if some of the most technical fly fishing in the country isn’t on a river, but on a southern California beach? And what if fly fishing? The surf has more in common with site fishing carp than bottom and long cast into the waves. Today’s guest fishes the Southern California coast. And today you’re going to hear how surf fly fishing actually works. 00;00;19;08 – 00;00;41;26 Frank Redefined about how tides replace current seams, how structure hides in plain sight, and why cabana perch and even leopard sharks reward anglers who slow down and learn to see the water differently. This is the Web by Swim podcast, where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. 00;00;42;23 – 00;01;04;00 Dave Frank Vargas is here today to talk about Southern California, fly fishing and a focus on his local waters. You’re going to discover how incoming and negative tides create predictable feeding lanes in the surf where Robina actually feed and why most anglers walk right past them. We’re also going to hear about surf perch and how they make the perfect year round species to learn fishing the surf. 00;01;04;11 – 00;01;25;02 Dave And when leopard sharks show up, how to target them and what it takes to get one on the beach. Plus, break ranks down etiquette, safety and how fly fishing still thrives even in heavily populated areas of the country. There’s a good one. Here you go, Frank Vargas. You can find him at Fisherman’s Spot NBC.com. How are you doing, Frank? 00;01;25;13 – 00;01;27;10 Frank Good, good, good. Thanks for having me. How are you doing? 00;01;27;15 – 00;01;42;22 Dave Yeah, great. Great. Yeah, I’m excited to talk. You know, we’re to up around like we always do a little bit, but we’re going to focus on Southern California a little bit. Where you’re at. You’re kind of in the, I guess, Burbank, Right. Is the area you’re down the fishermen spot is the fly shop that you work out. You do a bunch of getting out there. 00;01;42;29 – 00;01;57;12 Dave So we’re going to focus on that. Like if somebody was coming in to that area, let’s say they’re traveling down to go to Universal Studios or something like that and want to go fly fishing. You know, we’re going to chat on some opportunities and then see what else you got through the year. But maybe just start there like this time of year. 00;01;57;12 – 00;02;04;03 Dave I mean, the cool thing about Southern California is the weather, right? I mean, do you guys I’m guessing you can fish year round or give me an update on that? 00;02;04;14 – 00;02;25;02 Frank Yeah, usually we we do get to fish year round. You know, our peak season, you know, usually is going to be like April through, you know, October just based on the water temps in the surf. Likewise, you know, this past season, you know, coming into December, you know, we’ve had people catching, you know, good sized perch, you know, last month into this month being have been being caught on the blind. 00;02;25;13 – 00;02;43;20 Frank And it’s just weather dependent, you know, like this past week, we’ve had some some heavy rains come through. So the people that were out in the surf were, you know, fish were on the top right before the storm came in. So that’s putting us into December. And so as far as like, you know, my experience goes, the latest I’ve caught a to was, you know, maybe early November late October type thing. 00;02;43;20 – 00;02;59;25 Frank But, you know, having people catch them, you know, in the last month or so has been really cool to see. And just based on our water current that’s been coming through, it’s been warm. The only thing that we’ve kind of been dealing with was maybe like outside air temps. You know, But other than that, you know, you’re just wearing shorts and maybe you put a bigger jacket on or something. 00;02;59;25 – 00;03;11;17 Frank But yeah, we’ve been fishing year round. Likewise, we fish for car too during our off seasons, so it keeps us busy here. You know, if you’re a die hard fly fisherman and you want to get out and fish, you know, we have urban fly fishing is what we call it over here. 00;03;11;22 – 00;03;21;28 Dave Right in the surf. Fishing, I think is definitely a little bit different. I guess you consider that urban fly fishing, too. Are you what’s it look like when you’re out there fishing in the surf? Are you can you fish the surf throughout that whole area? 00;03;22;10 – 00;03;36;19 Frank Pretty much. I mean, it’s just a matter of how far do you want to drive? And, you know, it’s for myself, you know, if I’m staying down in Santa monica, you know, it’s a five minute drive from there. You know, I’m staying anywhere else. You know, maybe I’ve got an hour drive. I don’t want to say an hour drive. 00;03;36;19 – 00;03;58;05 Frank That could be an hour drive down to like south side of of Santa monica, down to Venice. And then likewise, going all the way up to Carpinteria into the Ventura County zone. So not just that, you know, the shops based out of Burbank, you know, we kind of look at where customers, you know, live locally and then likewise with visitors that you mentioned when they come in, you know, it’s they’re staying within proximity of the shop. 00;03;58;05 – 00;04;08;08 Frank They’re able to come in or call and ask questions where they can go. They brought gear not knowing what to do. And we just let them know, hey, wherever your hotel is, it could be only like 20 minutes from the beach and you can have a good day. 00;04;08;17 – 00;04;21;21 Dave You know, that’s it. So pretty much just the first step would be protocol, you guys, right? If they’re heading down there at the it’s fishermen spot e-comm, check in with you. And so who are some of the let’s talk about that real quick on the shop. Who are some of the folks that they’re going to call here in the next? 00;04;21;21 – 00;04;30;23 Dave I mean, this probably is going to go live in early February. Let’s just focus on that for a second. Are there going to be some opportunities in February for fishing? What’s that look. 00;04;30;23 – 00;04;46;27 Frank Like for February? Yeah, I mean, that’s when, you know, honestly. So a majority of our regular fly fishermen locally are going to be looking to take hosted trips with us. You know, So that’s kind of us getting out of the area. So, I mean, if someone’s coming to visit, you know, we’d offer them that, you know, if the time frames line up. 00;04;46;27 – 00;05;13;16 Frank But if they’re looking to kind of come in and, you know, fish locally there, we’re going to they’re going to be talking to like Dave or myself, you know, there’s there’s another person there named Sarah. She’s in the surf a lot. So she’ll be able to kind of direct them where to go. Yeah. So it’s it’s just, you know, likewise because we’re if we’re not on the water, you know, our connections with our customer base and other people that are, you know, giving instructions as well on the water to, you know, we tap into that resource and we’re all kind of networking together to figure out what’s fishing. 00;05;13;16 – 00;05;36;10 Frank Well, what’s the water temp, what’s the clarity of the water looking like and what’s the buy? So from there, you know, it’s just based on, you know, almost like a week by week basis, you know, what’s happening in watching the tide and all that. So we try to offer them the surf, let them know there’s local carp, fish, and then likewise, if they don’t really specifically want to do any of that and they’re like, hey, I have like four days here and I can take a little, you know, drive up to Mammoth or Bishop, you know, what do you have to offer there? 00;05;36;10 – 00;05;42;20 Frank And you know, the network or guys that we have up there, that’s where we kind of suggest them calling and getting them in contact with them as well. 00;05;42;28 – 00;05;46;06 Dave Right. And then that’s for like trout fishing within a few hours up north. 00;05;46;14 – 00;06;05;17 Frank Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it’s it’s I think when someone’s coming from outside of the state, you know, them not realizing, oh these people do you know that we do fly fish to surf. That’s, that’s a whole like eye opener to them if they’re doing their homework already and researching their trip and you know, they’re just as enthusiastic about fly fishing, they’re going to know, okay, these people are on your fly fish and this is the shop to call. 00;06;05;17 – 00;06;11;02 Frank These are the people that know what’s going on. These are the people that are tapped into the Southern California fly fishing season. 00;06;11;09 – 00;06;22;26 Dave Yeah, that’s it. Yeah. In Southern California. I mean, you’re in I mean, we’re talking Los Angeles area, but how far up does or does this break of Southern California become more, you know, where does that go away as you go north? 00;06;23;08 – 00;06;40;23 Frank I think it’s kind of right at that tipping point, kind of where I or I venture to is would be Carpinteria, OC, Ventura County. It’s almost like the north of point conception to me kind of gets a little bit kind of like that central Central Coast and starts kind of going up that way. That’s that’s kind of pushing it. 00;06;40;23 – 00;07;02;12 Frank But I think like for majority our customer base and you know, people come in and that’s kind of like where we would say we can really focus where we’ve focused our time up that far down to. If you go south wise, you know, down to Bolsa Chica is kind of like somewhere where we’re kind of tapped into, you know, we have customers coming up from Long Beach, Fullerton area. 00;07;02;12 – 00;07;25;02 Frank And so those zones down there, you know, not per se that we’re not fishing, but, you know, some of the stuff that we teach or that I teach, you know, is, you know, if you can read one beach and we teach you on one beach, you should be able to read any beach. So they just kind of, you know, might come up to our zone and we might meet them out on the beach and spend some time with them, you know, educate them on what we’re looking for, and then they can take that back down to their home beach or travel up to whatever beaches they want to. 00;07;25;11 – 00;07;37;26 Dave Yeah, that’s great. Well, let’s talk about that, because I think that is an interesting topic. Reading the beach. How do you take that? If somebody is there, they come in their brand new to it. What is that, you know, instruction or what are you telling them about reading it? 00;07;38;17 – 00;08;00;22 Frank About reading it? You know, I mean, I use apps, I read the newspaper, and for starters, I look for my tides, you know, So if it’s, you know, incoming tide, you know, that’s what I’m looking for. Ideally, you know, if I’m going to show someone the structure in the beach, you know, this off the right off where the the rollers and the breakers are forming, that negative tide allows us to see like the holes and the troughs. 00;08;01;10 – 00;08;23;08 Frank So once they’re able to kind of see that with with the negative low tide and the water starts washing. And so we’re just you know, as we’re talking about structure, they’re able to see how the water acts differently once it starts covering up those holes and those troughs the way it looks, you know, when a crab bed is exposed, when the water starts receding out, you know, to come in again, to wash back up on the shore. 00;08;23;17 – 00;08;39;22 Frank So once we’re able to identify, you know, the tide and then some structure, now they’re able to kind of start putting together like as they look up and down the beach, they’re able to say, oh, I just don’t stand in this one spot. I can hit multiple spots. I’m not going to say that it’s not drought, water or, you know how we can read you know, behind a boulder or cut bank. 00;08;39;26 – 00;09;02;02 Frank You know, we’re just reading different structures now. You know, it’s it’s a vast ocean. It’s a vast coastline that we’re walking up and down. And, you know, you fish it the same way. You just cover ground. And once, you know, like we’ll just keep it simple with, you know, where there’s a hole and then there’s, you know, some food, a food source, you’re able to kind of work that little area, you know, it could be, you know, ten feet long, it could be 20 feet, it could be 30 feet. 00;09;02;02 – 00;09;06;19 Frank So but once you’re able to kind of identify that, you know, you’re going to, you know, tentatively, there should be some fish there. 00;09;07;00 – 00;09;14;18 Dave Gotcha. So, yeah, the tides are the first thing. And you want when you’re out there, you want to be looking for an incoming tide. Is that the best for me? 00;09;14;18 – 00;09;29;20 Frank That’s the best when I’m, you know, showing people what and how we fish and what we’re looking for, you know, there’s always a discussion as far as, you know, Oh, after, you know, people enjoy fish in the hour before the peak of a high tide in the hour after, you know, the bite kind of comes on to me. 00;09;29;20 – 00;09;47;29 Frank You know, we’re fishing on like, oh, Dark 30. So that means, you know, as of right now, you know, we’d be out there at, you know, probably like 645, 630 right before sunrise. It does seem like, you know. Right. Is that, you know, we might get a few bites, you know, some fish to hand. And it’s almost like as soon as that sun kisses the water, the bite kind of turns on. 00;09;48;12 – 00;09;55;00 Frank And it’s just kind of like they go into a feeding frenzy. And with that incoming tide, it’s bringing those fish back into the food source. 00;09;55;07 – 00;09;56;01 Dave Oh, it is. Okay. 00;09;56;01 – 00;10;10;13 Frank So that’s kind of where I like it. And then there becomes the stability in the water when it’s kind of settling out after it’s it’s kind of been rising, rise and rising and it’s kind of getting to its peak. You know, it just depends on the duration of the peak. You know, what it does as far as it kind of like settling out. 00;10;10;13 – 00;10;25;01 Frank You know, like I call I refer to it as holding water. And it’s just kind of holding like a a slow moving water that’s keeping the food source covered and allowing these fish to to travel up and down through the holes and through the troughs. And that allows us for some site fishing or at least, you know, the blind fish. 00;10;25;01 – 00;10;29;02 Frank And we’re able to read the water, the foam that and how it’s acting in the water there. 00;10;29;11 – 00;10;44;22 Dave Yeah I see. Okay. So that’s your tides. And then in like you’re saying, negative tide going out there when it’s super low, you can see where those structures are going to be and kind of plan your day to say, hey, when this gets up to that high tide or it’s coming in, you’ll know where those little, you know, either rocks or buckets or. 00;10;44;22 – 00;10;46;22 Dave Right. Some sort of structure is what you’re looking for. 00;10;47;02 – 00;11;15;13 Frank Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, even with the negative tide, sometimes we get like, you know, this this last couple of months, we’ve had, you know, this king tide and it, you know, had a super effect on the on the negative. And so we were kind of able to fish like a whole lot further out than we normally do, you know, So when we’re really, you know, trying to double haul and send some line out there, shoot some line, it’s you know, we’re barely hitting those marks, but it’s almost like once we get these negative tides, we’re able to fish like a whole nother zone kind of where the surfers are hanging and beyond. 00;11;15;13 – 00;11;20;18 Frank So that’s that’s always the plus to fishing, like stuff we normally don’t get to fish on super negative tides. 00;11;20;26 – 00;11;33;06 Dave Okay, So that’s an opportunity. So you got the two. So the incoming tide in that range and then also negative tides. And you what you’re doing is trying to get were what are they doing, the food’s coming in or why is the incoming tide the best or that negative tide. 00;11;33;17 – 00;11;49;29 Frank It starts covering up, you know, their their food source. It’s allowing you know, it’s creating almost camouflage for them. You know, the more depth there is, the less exposed they feel, the predators, you know, I mean, number one source would be kind of like birds, you know, seagulls, pelicans. They’re swooping down on them, you know, clear, sunny days. 00;11;49;29 – 00;12;09;24 Frank They’re more exposed when there’s clear water. You know, they’re out in the deeper water where there tends to be more seals kind of cruising at that depth. So, you know, if you have core being a perch, etc., you know, croakers, they’re kind of more exposed to predators in deeper water. You know, it doesn’t mean those seals aren’t coming in and they haven’t, you know, pushed this to us. 00;12;09;24 – 00;12;26;23 Frank You know, I mean, I’ve been able to cast that as SEAL, you know, So that’s maybe a 30 foot chunk. And they’re right there. You know, just last time that I’ve heard a seal was pushing some fish up to someone that’s like two weeks ago, SEAL was basically coming on shore chasing fish, lo and behold, birds and backpedaling. 00;12;27;12 – 00;12;33;14 Frank See, she still had the fish on and she felt a good tug. And it was you know, it wasn’t the fish run away. It was the seal had gotten her fish. 00;12;33;14 – 00;12;34;12 Dave Oh, wow. Yeah. 00;12;34;13 – 00;12;55;09 Frank Yeah. So I mean that they’re they’re not afraid of us, you know, obviously we respect them and, you know, they’re wild animals, but it’s just, you know, they they’re fishing and hunting to survive. So, you know, we just kind of watch them and we watch those zones. And it’s so basically an answer, long story short, is, you know, the food source that, you know, the perch core being a croakers and they’re looking for are those crabs or clams. 00;12;56;13 – 00;13;05;25 Frank So when that water is, you know, coming up onto the sand, you know, if there’s crab beds in the area, that’s where you’re going to find a lot of more a lot more fish kind of coming in to eat. 00;13;06;04 – 00;13;13;10 Dave Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. And those are the species wise. Those are kind of the main ones are what are the top species. You’d be fish in the survey for the top. 00;13;13;10 – 00;13;32;03 Frank You know, there’s always going to be perch in the mix. You know, you find a nice little hole, you’ll find some a good majority of, of perch. You know, you fish behind the back of the crash and where you should be finding perch if there’s a food source core being a you know, that’s that’s you know what we all kind of come out to hunt during the summer and, you know, that’s the plus. 00;13;32;03 – 00;13;49;29 Frank You know, there there’s there’s a lot of them when the water warms up and the food source is available. And that’s what I’m going to say. A lot of us are chasing, you know, that site fishing thrill that we look for and I think, you know, a lot of us, you know, when we say we’re on the board, it’s we sight fished and caught, you know, the first being for us in the season, you know, we kind of keep track of that. 00;13;49;29 – 00;14;15;03 Frank So I definitely say the beans are are the ones we really focus on. Once you kind of start understanding the way the core being our eating, the way you can catch them on the fly all of a sudden, you know, my experience is, you know, all of a sudden the leopard’s art show up. So now all of a sudden now we got a bigger species that showed up is obviously a lot easier to see because you’re seeing dorsal fins or tails and you’re watching them either come in and out, you know, or they’re paralleling the break line. 00;14;15;03 – 00;14;29;17 Frank So we’re able to sight fish at those. And, you know, that’s kind of where I where I really see that. That’s what I like to target. The core being anthracite fishing in leopard search for fly fish. And if there is nothing to show and we’re fishing for the perch, you know, as far as site fishing for halibut, a little more challenging. 00;14;29;17 – 00;14;43;22 Frank But, you know, I’ve caught him on the blind just kind of thinking where they’re at throwing something that, you know, might trigger them to eat. And then there’s a croaker, yellowfin croaker that we tend to get when we send our cast out a little bit further just on the back side of some breaks. 00;14;43;27 – 00;14;51;22 Dave Yeah. Okay. On the backside. That’s cool. So you have the breaks. What does that look like? Let’s just say in curbing a winner, the prime time’s for fishing, for curbing it. 00;14;52;03 – 00;15;13;09 Frank I’m going to say it kind of just based on water. Timberlake May we’re going to be looking at like, man, you know, starts warming up May, June, July, August. Those are going to be like our peak times. And as long as water temps, you know, hanging in there, you know, we’re looking at September, October, and that’s when, you know, when you’re thinking not that you think I mean, the more time you do it, you’re like, okay, who am I going to see today? 00;15;13;09 – 00;15;44;01 Frank You know? So the five fishing communities down here and especially the salt, you know, I’m going to say it’s it’s a tight little community. Everyone kind of knows everyone or knows who someone is. You know, there’s the you know, you’re usually walking by someone and it’s the same way you have etiquette. You know, you give everyone the space and bump past them and you know, take a you know, give someone 100 yards or so because it’s, you know, if that’s the only zone you’re working in Santa monica, you know, it’s going to give everyone the opportunity, you know, And if that there’s a lot of people on the beach, I’ll go to another beach. 00;15;44;01 – 00;16;03;24 Dave San Juan Rod work started with a simple belief great fly rods and gear shouldn’t cost a fortune. As a family run company, they focus on building high quality fly fishing products that perform on the water without the premium price tag. You can try San Juan. Rod works for 30 days risk free right now, and if you’re not satisfied, send it back for a full refund. 00;16;03;24 – 00;16;32;21 Dave You can go to San Juan Rod works dot com that’s Sanjay you and Rod works dot com fish town exhibitions offers world class fly fishing right off Alaska’s incredible road system for monster rainbow trout to feisty Arctic grayling. You’ll chase big species in the stunning landscape whether you’re a seasoned angler or just starting out there. Expert guides ensure an unforgettable adventure Book your trip today before spots fill up and experience Alaska’s diversity like never before. 00;16;33;02 – 00;16;53;13 Dave Check them out right now that’s Fish Hound expeditions dot com. Is it pretty busy? I mean, obviously Los Angeles is known for you know, lots of traffic and you know lots of people. Is it what’s the fly fishing like? Are you seeing a lot of people fly fishing? Is there a mix of fly conventional? And then you also have the surfers and everybody else. 00;16;53;13 – 00;16;55;01 Dave What does it look like on a busy day? 00;16;55;12 – 00;17;05;07 Frank On a busy day? I mean, it’s location, location, location. Where does everyone rendezvous in from the fly fishing community? You know, you have different groups. You have women’s groups. All right. 00;17;05;18 – 00;17;17;22 Dave So there’s a lot of that. There’s a lot of the groups where you have a group going out and you guys might meet up and like you said, do a class or something like that. So it’s but you there are opportunities. You can go out solo and just find a beach and read it and go, right, There’s a lot of opportunities. 00;17;18;03 – 00;17;32;19 Frank Yeah. So I mean that’s what I’m saying. You could show up and you know, a friend group shows up with three or four and you know, in passing you’re going to know someone myself in the shop wise, you know, I mean, I get to, you know, meet our customers. I get to fish with our customers and I get to see our customers out on the water. 00;17;33;09 – 00;17;46;19 Frank So that’s all I’m saying. So you could show up thinking you found a spot, Right? But then, you know, all of us use maps. And so saying people might be showing up at that beach, you might find some gear people. And, you know, likewise, we’re all fishermen, we’re all fishers. They know if we put it out that way. 00;17;46;19 – 00;18;01;15 Frank And so we’re communicating. What are they catching, what do they throw and what size, you know, leader tip it or they use. And you know, when I’m speaking to gear guys, you know, and then likewise they’re like, what do you use it? You know, we always they’re always intrigued with what are we catching? And you can fly fish out here, you know. 00;18;01;15 – 00;18;19;19 Frank So we answer those questions a lot, but anywhere from like runners to, you know, people just walk in, people, you know, with their heads down and looking for shells. I mean, your drop in the cast sometimes, you know, it’s someone’s not paying attention and they’re ten feet right behind you or you have, you know, the tours that’s taking a picture right behind you. 00;18;19;19 – 00;18;34;05 Frank And, you know, your head’s on the swivel, not just for, you know, watching the birds or, you know, watching the sea life. You know, it’s it’s watching for tourist. It’s watching for the runners, surfers, you know, I mean I mean, it’s sometimes. 00;18;34;14 – 00;18;35;16 Dave They right there, too. 00;18;35;16 – 00;18;50;00 Frank They are, you know, some places I’ve been where it’s territorial, you know, they’re surfing. You get out of here, you know, All right. Express them and say, you know, But that’s just kind of, I think, how it goes. I think we all kind of try to give each other space, you know, where space and space enjoy what we’re doing out there. 00;18;50;00 – 00;19;02;27 Frank But I think it’s the ones that aren’t adapted to, you know, the saltwater life, the water life of like ham fishing for a couple of hours. You know, I’m going to give you your space. I’m going to, you know, get my space. And we all kind of like end up working together. 00;19;02;27 – 00;19;05;00 Dave Yeah, right, Right. That’s always better. 00;19;05;00 – 00;19;08;09 Frank Yeah. I mean, you come across tourists, they’re like, Hey, I’m walking here. 00;19;08;14 – 00;19;09;02 Dave Yeah, yeah. 00;19;09;19 – 00;19;10;13 Frank I’m fishing here. 00;19;10;15 – 00;19;24;16 Dave That’s funny. Yeah. The public, I public land is pretty amazing. Well, and that’s what’s cool about, you know, really. I mean, a lot of public land, right? What does that look like on the coast down there? Is are there areas that are beaches that are totally private or how is that not broken up? 00;19;24;16 – 00;19;48;11 Frank There is a lot of public land, a lot of access, you know, and then it comes down to like these little pocket beaches that, you know, obviously we had a lot of fires come through. So a lot of beaches that were kind of overlooked because of the houses that were were built directly on the coastline, had limited access, you know, And it was you kind of had to just get on the map or you had to park somewhere where you saw something fishy and just kind of like walk up and down or drive slowly. 00;19;48;11 – 00;20;07;10 Frank And then you’ll see public access to these places that look like they’re private. There is, you know, private clubs that are on the on the beach front, you know, right on the beachfront, right adjacent to where public access is. And we can’t really walk up like it’s almost like the high side of that bank, you know, the watermark. 00;20;07;16 – 00;20;12;29 Frank We can’t walk through their property. But if we’re fishing, you know, in the wet sand, they can’t really tell us anything. 00;20;12;29 – 00;20;20;15 Dave It’s just how you access it. Okay, so that’s it. So the beaches. So as long as you’re on the beach up to the high watermark, that that’s all public, pretty much the whole thing. 00;20;21;03 – 00;20;36;08 Frank That’s been my experience. But likewise, you know, I mean, is it right or wrong? Is there you know, does it extend out to a certain point where we’re not allowed to be on there? I know we can’t use their parking. You know, that’s just based on experience, you know, driving in and asking if we’re allowed to park or no, are you a member? 00;20;36;23 – 00;20;51;13 Dave But if you came in just thinking, if you were fishing and you’re working your way up, up north or something like that, you know, knowing that you could fish and then walk back to wherever you put in, you know what I mean? That’s a good. But I guess the advice would be to call you guys probably and say, hey, we’re you know, we’re thinking about going here. 00;20;51;13 – 00;20;56;16 Dave Maybe we could ask you, like where it would be a good place to go if your first time. Is that some advice you guys give out there? 00;20;56;25 – 00;21;13;04 Frank Oh, yeah. I mean, we fish are, you know, somewhere we know, you know, it’s somewhere we can send people to whether they’re, you know, our local customers and they’re just getting started. And it could be like we mentioned earlier, you know, someone coming in for a vacation. You know, we have like spots that are, you know, could produce fish. 00;21;13;04 – 00;21;31;19 Frank And when I say could produce fish, it’s just based on the person. It depends on the tide. If they find the food source, you know, we give them a very descriptive picture of what they’re going to go fish, you know, very descriptive drop point, you know, in how to work the water. So we do have multiple points if if where they’re staying, you know, that we can refer them to. 00;21;32;02 – 00;21;46;24 Dave Okay. And going back to that that wintertime. So the kind of the January, February, March before it start, you know, I guess winter, I’m not sure what it’s like. I mean, what is the weather like there in that period of time? And can you go out there and fish pretty much, you know, 12 months out of the year and have a chance at something? 00;21;47;04 – 00;22;02;12 Frank Yeah, you can. I just was speaking with someone about that and she’s planning on on, you know, fishing year round, you know, and it’s in the surf, you know, and it’s if that’s our home water, I mean, I have to look at it like I have to own it. Like that’s our home water. It’s the salt and that’s where I fish. 00;22;02;12 – 00;22;19;09 Frank If I can’t go to to Mammoth, if I can’t go to Montana to fish for trout, I’m going to dial in my own water. And that’s right in our backyard. That’s the coastline. And you know, we’re talking about that. And yeah, you are going to catch fish. It might be a little bit colder. You know, you might have to work a little bit harder, you know, and put a little bit more time in. 00;22;19;09 – 00;22;40;04 Frank But it’s it’s staying consistent. It’s being, you know, fluent in your your water, you know, or your you’re fishing. So I think, you know, not just myself but them too, and others, you know, there’s others that are out there fishing, you know, year round. And it’s just because we enjoy it. You know, I like to say we go out there to to relax and unwind, but it’s also to go out and catch and learn. 00;22;40;07 – 00;22;46;27 Frank You know, I’m always learning like, what can I do better? You know, especially if the water temps, you know, the air temps, what’s going on in the winter months change in. 00;22;46;27 – 00;22;47;05 Dave Yeah. 00;22;47;06 – 00;22;51;01 Frank Yeah. So it’s it’s just adapting and just, you know, being proficient at the fishery. 00;22;51;08 – 00;23;06;08 Dave Yeah. Well if you’re out there, you know, let’s just say curbing it sounds like, you know, maybe more summer things warm up a little bit. What’s the typical first? What is the typical setup you’re using rod line for? And is it the same for whether you’re fishing cabana or fishing? Those other species. 00;23;06;20 – 00;23;25;03 Frank Are. So myself, when when someone comes in the shop and they’re, you know, we always, you know, fly fishing community wise, I think drought always starts everyone with the five weight, right? Your first fly right is going to be a fly weight. So then when they’re like, Hey, I want to learn to fly fish, to surf, and I want to invest in a rod if I need to, that’s where I get to educate them. 00;23;25;03 – 00;23;45;23 Frank You know, I recommend a six week with a sinking line with a real that has quality drag, you know, so and a sinking line. So with that you know the you know I’ll let them know that six way you know if you’re trout fisherman that six weight becomes your streamer rod you know if you’re fishing or start fishing for carp, there goes your car broad and you’re fishing, you want to start fishing for bass, That’s your light bass rod. 00;23;46;07 – 00;23;53;13 Frank So it’s not just selling them the one and done, and this is your only surf rod and that’s all it’s going to be useful for. And I think the six weights kind of ideal it is. 00;23;53;13 – 00;23;57;18 Dave So a nine foot six weight is the perfect surfer like Corbin or Perch or any of these species. 00;23;57;28 – 00;24;15;06 Frank Oh yeah. Well, they go online and read and, you know, sometimes, you know, online is right on and sometimes they’re way off. So I think the best thing when when people have come in and I get to or Dave or anyone that you know, shares the same knowledge that we have, you know, we’re able to educate them as far as that six week goes to use. 00;24;15;06 – 00;24;31;04 Frank And to me, you know, you catch a palm sized perch, you’re still going to have fun. You’re going to catch, you know, I don’t know, maybe a three or £4 cabana. You’re going to be able to put the bend on your rod, put that pressure on it, and then you have the fighting. But, you know, so that becomes a useful part of your rod there. 00;24;31;07 – 00;24;40;05 Dave Yeah. So six way so you would have and then you mentioned seeing light. So what is the good line out there? I mean do you have an all around and then should you have a few different lines in your quiver. 00;24;40;16 – 00;25;05;11 Frank Yeah. When it comes, I mean, you know what, I kind of come to keep it simple, you know, I just use, you know, basically anywhere from Rio or scientific anglers. You know, basically what I’m looking for is, is a 26, 27 foot head, you know, thinking out 5 to 6 inches per second. And then the handling running line is intermediate, you know, so my head’s going to sink super fast and then that intermediate line is just going to get below the top. 00;25;05;11 – 00;25;35;29 Frank Anything any movement on on the surface that intermediate lines is going to drop down right behind that. So that just helps me stay more in control and more in contact with my line. You know, there’s books people right now. Q wrote, you know, Kirby in the diaries, and he refers to multiple lines for for different situations. For me, it’s, you know, I’m I just use what I use, you know, like I let other people know there’s there’s other sources, there’s other, you know, educated people that are also putting out information, you know, and it’s you know, no one’s no one’s saying anything’s wrong. 00;25;35;29 – 00;25;36;17 Frank They all have. 00;25;36;17 – 00;25;40;19 Dave No. So you could use a dry line out there, though, or do you have to have some sort of sinking line? 00;25;40;29 – 00;25;56;07 Frank I would say I would avoid a floating line. That’s one thing I would say. But if you wanted to use an intermediate line, because where you’re at is it’s has more flats, you know, there’s not a lot of water moves. I want a clear, stealthy line and it just gets below the surface. That’s what I would say. Yeah, I understand that. 00;25;56;07 – 00;26;05;08 Dave Yeah. So just use a you could use the intermediate like a full sinking intermediate like it maybe like almost like you’d use on a trout on a Lake Stillwater you know, for intermediate line. 00;26;05;13 – 00;26;08;09 Frank Right, right, right. But that’s based on conditions from, from. 00;26;08;09 – 00;26;20;00 Dave Yeah. Yeah. If it’s not getting down, where do you want to get down to these fish. Like how deep. And maybe describe that a little bit. So you, you get out there in the surf, you cast out. Are you trying to get this thing down to the bottom? Talk about that a little bit. 00;26;20;11 – 00;26;36;11 Frank So if we’re fishing for core being and we’re site fishing for them, we’re looking for them, I mean, they could be right at your feet. So in some of these pictures and and you see people that they’re completely dry, you know, they’re not bellied up out there checking. They’re line out 40, 50 feet. And where, you know, 15 back from the wet sand. 00;26;36;11 – 00;26;53;04 Frank So we’re standing on dry sand, you know, fish and, you know, an inch of water if that you know, when it’s, you know, kind of skinny or water, it could be, you know, like two feet that they’re cruising in three feet. And there’s just, you know, a side breaking small little wave that they’re cruising through using to travel. 00;26;53;04 – 00;27;08;07 Frank So, you know, it’s just a matter of getting the fly in front of them. Deeper water, you know, tends to be a little more challenging when you’re sight facing them. Just base. That means you’re all of a sudden now and they’re feeding area. So it’s just being observant. You know, when we’re fishing for beans, I’ll just keep it simple. 00;27;08;07 – 00;27;17;13 Frank Majority of the time we’re fishing anywhere from, you know, 1 to 2 inches where they’re kind of sucking all the way up to the sand where the sand crabs are to, you know, 2 to 3 feet in depth. 00;27;17;13 – 00;27;28;27 Dave Two or three feet. And are you as you’re walking, are you walking the beach or are you going in the sand and looking for them? Or do you go to spots, you know, like let’s say you’re new to it. Should somebody start just walking the beach and looking for spotting these fish? 00;27;29;07 – 00;27;49;00 Frank I think that’s key. Yeah. I mean, if you can’t see them right off the back, you know, and then I mean, there’s the easy part when they come in and they’re almost like tailing carp, you’ll see them, you know, with tail up, you know, and it’s like, cool. I can see that. But if you were not able to see that happening and you need to start looking into the water, you know, you need to, number one, have some polarized glasses. 00;27;49;09 – 00;28;02;11 Frank Remember, too, is sometimes you might think it was that the shadow was out of gray spot. Was that a dark spot? That’s how you got to start training your eyes. So it’s they were kind of going out on your own, having the understanding that’s cool to do. And likewise, if we’re able to help you along with that and that’s what it is. 00;28;02;11 – 00;28;22;23 Frank But it’s, you know, you train your eye to see how and what how they’re swimming, what they’re doing, how deep they are. You know, my first experience was like I went to the beach for like, you know, almost like, say, like a couple, three weeks and just observed, just watched. And then it was just training that I, you know, even the most sudden movements was like, oh, there went one, you know, And then it’s, you know, using your peripherals, expanding your vision. 00;28;22;23 – 00;28;36;17 Frank Once you’re able to identify what they look like, what they’re doing, you know, the secret weapon is those polarized glasses. You know, that’s our superpower, you know, being able to see through the water, the clarity of it and see what those fish are doing and see what your fly does once you’re able to identify them. 00;28;36;26 – 00;28;49;08 Dave Yeah, that’s it. So once you ID, let’s see, you find a core being a it’s out there maybe in a few inches of water tailing. What’s your first casts? What does that look like and what fly would you be thrown on there. 00;28;50;00 – 00;29;06;13 Frank First class, You know, if they’re tailing like if their face towards me, you know, I’m going to put it, you know, kind of off to the side of their eyes. You know, their eyes are on the side. They’re kind of going forward, too. So I’m going to, you know, kind of put it in a manner that’s, you know, maybe two feet from them off to their angle. 00;29;06;13 – 00;29;20;23 Frank And I’m going to try to strip it across their dinner plate. You know, it’s it’s sometimes, you know, the fast trip gets them a lot of the time when it’s going by them pretty quick, sometimes that that’s going to spook them. So sometimes it’s just a matter of getting the fly to their dinner plate is what I like to say. 00;29;20;24 – 00;29;38;08 Dave So as you know, this makes sense. So you’ve got the dinner plate, so you’ve got this fish that sitting there eating, you know, crabs or whatever he’s tailing. Let’s just say he’s tailing you make that cast a couple of feet out off to his side and then you strip that through that, you get the right speed. And with the strip be like along, it varies, it sounds like. 00;29;38;08 – 00;29;42;05 Dave But would it be a like a long 12 inch strip or like a boom, boom, boom, boom. What would be the strip? 00;29;42;11 – 00;29;57;03 Frank Yeah, I would go with the boom, boom, boom, you know, 6 to 8 inches, you know, and, you know, getting it to move along on a rapid pace. You know, sometimes you might be driven as fast as you can to trigger them. And so a lot of the times I mean, I’ll go with, you know, a crab pattern works. 00;29;57;21 – 00;30;22;02 Frank There’s a red checkerboard. I mean, I tie up my own flashy kind of like Willy burger that’s like bright red and, you know, some crystal flash and then some marabou for us and red tail. And it’s just, you know, I think for myself, just really trying to trigger them. But then, you know, once again, that crab pattern also works if they’re just so focused on crabs, you know, sometimes that red piece that’s you know, a material, it’s not triggering them and they’re just focused on those crabs. 00;30;22;02 – 00;30;40;26 Frank I’ll throw crab in the mix, you know, or like a type of worm that is in the mix as well, too. So, I mean, it kind of varies. There’s you know, when they’re kind of honed in, I’ll just say if they’re honed in on the crabs, I’m throwing a crab pattern, something gray and yeah, rattlers or other ones that we use kind of shrimp is less clammy looking. 00;30;41;13 – 00;30;50;13 Frank That’s usually kind of like I mean, I have like maybe a total of anywhere, maybe 5 to 8 go to flies, you know, that I can put in my pocket and I can go in. 00;30;50;13 – 00;30;58;15 Dave There and those are flies. Could you? Sounds like you’ve got a lot of your own creations, but what would those five be? Would those be more a mix of crabs and yeah. 00;30;58;15 – 00;31;16;16 Frank Like the surf worm, the crab pattern or the red checkerboard? You know, that’s just to me is the trigger, the Americans kind of one that you got in the mix. You know, I have that you know, if I’m looking at a variety of another crab pattern might be, you know, just a merkin and gray. That’s kind of it. 00;31;16;16 – 00;31;21;21 Frank And then that just the variation of colors, you know, could be orange on could be brownish. 00;31;21;22 – 00;31;22;03 Dave Okay. 00;31;22;10 – 00;31;26;11 Frank Yeah. So you have a palette. It’s almost like your streamer box. You’re going to have multiple colors of it. 00;31;26;11 – 00;31;42;04 Dave Okay? So and you get these flies. So basically on this situation, you would want to get the fly kind of down on the bottom and strip it across there. So it looks like a, you know, one of those whatever it’s eating. And when this is, are there other fish that you’re kind of sight fishing or a curbing of the main fish throughout the year? 00;31;42;13 – 00;31;58;16 Frank Of course being and then back to leopard’s in leopard. Yeah. Yeah. So that site fishing part, that’s what we really like. For myself I like to focus on, you know, I mean, it doesn’t mean I’m not catching surf perch in the blind or that I haven’t got caught being on the blind. But that that’s what we really look for is something the same fish that. 00;31;58;18 – 00;32;15;09 Dave Yeah, that’s what you’re looking for. So site fishing and again that’s what’s cause you’re seeing the fish And with Korina this is interesting like they’re in the shallows. You could be way back, not even in the wet sand, but over on the dry sand casting across. And what is the distance you would want to be proficient at casting to really have a shot at? 00;32;15;11 – 00;32;18;10 Frank URBINA I’d say at least 20 feet. 00;32;18;11 – 00;32;21;21 Dave At least 20. Okay. So but then sometimes you cast further if you need to. 00;32;21;29 – 00;32;36;11 Frank You’re right. I mean, it’s a when we’re on the dry skin, you know, you might be down on your knees. So you’ve got to be able to put, you know, a 20 foot cast out from your knees, you know, hunched down, you know, or not in a typical, you know, prone position, we’re standing straight up. We’re trying to keep that low profile. 00;32;36;11 – 00;32;57;25 Frank So it’s, you know, at least a 20 foot, you know, if you’re having, like really spooky face, you’re lengthening your leader. You know, you’re you’re making a lower profile. You know, you’re really taking that time because even as you’re going up to walk up, you know, as your first time on the water, you know, in the morning, you know, you’re walking, it kind of adjusts your eyes and it’s like you already walked up on some of your being in there. 00;32;57;25 – 00;33;08;14 Frank They’re spooked and you might be that 15 feet away, you know. So it’s like, okay, I need to adjust. I need to maybe wait for a little bit more light to show up before I kind of start, you know, getting too close to the water. 00;33;08;24 – 00;33;28;27 Dave Gotcha. Okay. I want to highlight to, you know, since we won’t get into all this on Kirby and we did have an episode with you mentioned our cue episode 219 a few years back. We’ll put a link on the show notes. And we also did one with we talked to Tyler down in Mission Bay. He’s down, I guess, closer to San Diego, but probably some of this stuff overlaps. 00;33;28;27 – 00;33;34;05 Dave Would you say that if you’re fishing surf in San Diego versus where you’re at with some similar types of fishing? 00;33;34;16 – 00;33;51;11 Frank Yeah, right. It’s like, you know, the beginning of what we’re saying. You know, you read a beach, you can read any beach. You know, you understand, you know, the structure of the beach and the tide and the food source. You’re, you know, you’ve got a good shot of finding fish, of whatever beach. You you walk on it. And that’s, that’s the big thing that I that, you know, I get to teach I get to let customers know. 00;33;51;11 – 00;34;06;00 Frank I mean, I’ll show them pictures. I’ll show them you know, what we’re looking for and how. And then once they’re able to identify that, yeah, they could be down in San Diego and they could be all the way up to San Luis Obispo, you know, just kind of thinking. And they’ll be able to read that beach and be successful for it, you know, just to put out there, too. 00;34;06;00 – 00;34;12;04 Frank I mean, we do fish, you know, we go to Long Beach, breakwall for Calico Bass. Okay. That’s always fun. 00;34;12;11 – 00;34;15;13 Dave Yeah. Long Beach. So that is where is Long Beach from where you’re at? 00;34;15;23 – 00;34;24;06 Frank Oh, it’s south of us, too. So that’s maybe. Yeah, you know, just based on traffic, you know, that’s, that’s what it comes down to an hour and a half to 2 hours. 00;34;24;10 – 00;34;27;06 Dave Is that for you for so Long Beach from you’re in Burbank, right? 00;34;27;14 – 00;34;28;13 Frank Right. Yes. 00;34;28;16 – 00;34;33;19 Dave In Burbank. By if you were to drive without anybody on the road, how long will that take you? 00;34;34;01 – 00;34;40;02 Frank Right. Like half hour, maybe a half hour. 45, tops. Yeah, I just mileage true mileage. 00;34;40;02 – 00;34;45;18 Dave It’s a little ways. Yeah. So half an hour or 45 and then with traffic you double that or triple it. Right. Something like that. Going across L.A.. 00;34;45;19 – 00;34;59;25 Frank Yeah. I mean then I go with my buddy, he’s got a, you know, 18 foot center console and he’s like, Hey, we’re going to push off at 7 p.m. I’m like, okay, I got to get off work, you know, an hour or two early to go fish with him, You know, if I’m leaving during the week. 00;35;00;06 – 00;35;00;29 Dave Yeah, yeah, right. 00;35;01;08 – 00;35;18;01 Frank So that’s kind of it’s all sometimes, you know, if you were to travel in the middle of the night and there’s no traffic, everything is the true mileage and, you know, obviously equated to miles per hour. And usually that’s what it is but you know LA with our traffic it’s Yeah. Usually had in an hour to hour and a half and even when you’re thinking an hour and a half there’s an accident. 00;35;18;01 – 00;35;19;05 Frank There’s like 2 hours now. 00;35;19;06 – 00;35;32;17 Dave Yeah. Right, right, right. Okay. And so Long Beach. Yeah. So you do have some other species. Well, let’s hear on Leopard. I wanted. That’s interesting. So you now with the leopard shark, is this also depending on water temperature? When’s the time that you might see some sharks out there? 00;35;33;02 – 00;35;53;22 Frank Usually maybe like February. March would be timeframe thinking back like, let’s say like September, October. I’ve seen some, you know, once again, just kind of comes in on they’re there when they’re spawning with what we’re looking at you know, water to when they’re cruising. Sometimes you’ll just find pods that have slipped in and they’re cruising when when you’re fishing for your crabbing. 00;35;54;17 – 00;36;12;15 Frank And so that’s where like all of a sudden, you know, one prized fish, you know, at least to myself, goes to a different prized fish. And it’s just switching gears again. So, you know, you’re taking off that eight or £10 liter or £12 whatever you’re leading and throwing anywhere from 20 to £25 leader on, you know, anywhere from three feet to six feet per se. 00;36;12;16 – 00;36;35;16 Frank Like when they’re in, sometimes it’s only a week or two that you’ll see them. And so with myself, I just, you know, really dialing it in there’s that there’s still the randoms that it’s just when they’re happening there, they’re there and it’s like either you’re getting news from someone, Hey, I saw a leopard and you know, I was out, you know, for two days and I’ve been seeing them and I’ve been casting anywhere, been putting that time in, you know, I’ve been putting 5 hours in and I finally got one. 00;36;35;25 – 00;36;46;11 Dave It’s a wow. What’s it like catching? What is the leopard shark? I’m not sure if you had an opportunity to see some of those out there hooking to some of those. What what does that look like? 00;36;46;19 – 00;37;03;02 Frank Oh, I mean, it’s so that’s what we go back to that six. Wait, Rod, you know, you get a fair hook that that’s key number one when we’re fair hooking leopards, that’s that’s when you know, you’ll be able to put some pressure on with the six way. Is that ideal I mean for me my experience has been, yes, it works and we’ve landed them. 00;37;03;16 – 00;37;21;15 Frank I think with your as people’s experience grows, they’ll see that the six weight works. But it’s a kick in the pants. I mean, you’re getting a good take. You’re watching a fish, you know, you’re watching the shark. You know, track your fly. You’re you’re delivering it. You know, kind of out in front of them and you’re stripping and you might be switching to a bait fish pattern. 00;37;22;01 – 00;37;39;23 Frank I like to use blue over white deceiver sometimes. Right over white closers all over white. But it’s just, you know, when they’re tracking it and they finally do take and you get that solid strip set, I mean, it’s just, you know, I’m not going to say all hell breaks loose, but I mean, it’s it’s a fish that’s running, you know? 00;37;39;23 – 00;37;40;12 Frank I mean, it’s. 00;37;40;12 – 00;37;43;25 Dave Yeah, it’s a shark and it’s a shark, right? This is an actual shark. 00;37;44;02 – 00;37;58;26 Frank Yeah, it’s designed for speed. I mean, it has to work and, you know, we always say they’re going to Catalina, you know, they’re taking that run on you. But, you know, when you got the right leader on, you know, which is, you know, I like to use £25. So in case I hook them on one side of the mouth and we turn them the other way. 00;37;58;26 – 00;38;14;26 Frank And if that leader comes across their teeth, which they’re not sharp, but they’re, you know, enough to beat up your leader or break your leader off, you know, you might have an a leader that has some abrasion on it, but you’re able to turn them. You know, you’ve got to let them run. You know, it’s it’s not like we can horse them in. 00;38;14;26 – 00;38;32;16 Frank So you just let them run. And when you can put some pressure on them to turn them and parallel the shore and you can start relying on them, you start really on them, you walk with them. I call it a give and take. Sometimes I got to go into the water to gain line and then I’ll try to back out with them with the line I game, they’ll come in and you think you got them. 00;38;32;16 – 00;38;48;02 Frank And then all of a sudden they got another spurt of energy and their running pass experiences. Usually there’s like kelp and stuff, free floating kelp that’s kind of out and about. And for some reason they know to put your line in that. So you’re kind of dealing with, you know, just, oh, I got I got kelp on my line now. 00;38;48;02 – 00;39;10;26 Frank So now I have a different pressure. You know, that pressure could relieve some slack in the fish. So you’re trying to get it off shore in the lower your line into the water and shake it, but still keeping tension on it. If you have a friend with you and you’re able to gain on your fish after, you know, multiple runs and, you know, kind of wearing them down, I’m not going to say tire them down, but, you know, you will wear them down and you’re able to bring them in. 00;39;10;26 – 00;39;25;03 Frank You know, your friend might ground by the tail if you you know, we’re to beat them. We’re trying to get them onto the beach. So when you’re going on your own, I mean, that’s where you really put your your gear to the test, you know, from your drag to your ride. You know, when I’ve landed them on my own, you know that fighting. 00;39;25;03 – 00;39;41;02 Frank But it’s kind of like in my thigh or just right above my thigh by my hip. And you’re putting, you know, and in that regard, as best as you can without breaking it, you know, and I mean, that’s just a funny you know, I have friends that have those hero shots of themselves, you know, or someone that took a picture of them landing the shark by themselves. 00;39;41;02 – 00;39;55;17 Frank And it’s just so rewarding at that point. That’s a big fish that you caught, you know, that you trick to either fly, you know, there’s no scent being used, there’s no nothing, there’s no bait on or off, You know, it’s just straight hooks and feathers, Maybe a little tinsel or something. That’s it. 00;39;55;25 – 00;40;06;16 Dave Yeah, right. Wow. And so that’s in the land. I mean, what’s the landing like? Are you so you kind of beach them and then you can go up and just grab them and they’re just kind of sitting there like any other fish getting ready to get released. 00;40;06;22 – 00;40;28;21 Frank Yeah, they, I mean, they’re, they’re big, they’re muscle. So, I mean, you know, you’re, you’re getting them. They kind of settle down a little bit to where you’re able to get your hook out. You know, use I’ll use some pliers, not some forceps. And at that point, you know, trying to get a picture of them, you know, you just feel you know, you think you’re going to be holding like a trout or something, you know, and all of a sudden their muscles just forms them into a sea shape, you know? 00;40;28;21 – 00;40;46;13 Frank And then just your reaction is like us trying to bite me is or, oh you know, and then, you know, so you just take either video and pictures that you’re just trying to, you know, just get the whole profile of the fish as you’re holding it, you know, and you’re trying to get that release, you know, and it’s to me, it’s one of the best fish that we have down here that I do like chasing when they’re here. 00;40;46;13 – 00;40;50;18 Frank I wish they were we’re here a lot more often. But, you know, likewise they’re not. 00;40;50;23 – 00;41;02;03 Dave Know it’s temperature, right. Temperature related, similar to Cabana it sounds like. And that’s thing with climate change, probably you guys have probably seen some of that, too. Right. Changes in temperatures aren’t always what they used to be or is that a factor now? 00;41;02;09 – 00;41;22;19 Frank Yeah. You guys have what? Yeah, I mean, if we’re just kind of watching everything away, it’s flowing, you know, it seems like you’re, like I said, people catching cabana, they’re on the blind. Some people have been like fishing, though, based on their location. But the fact that we’re having that in like late November, early December, you know, that water temp sticking around, is it El Nino or type situation happening? 00;41;22;19 – 00;41;31;00 Frank And that could be. But like the trend, when I look at it, you know, it seems like we’re catching caught being a later and later so that warmer water stick are on the air. 00;41;31;00 – 00;41;39;07 Dave Right. And so we talked to cabana leopards. And then what about the perch? Now these other species are these more just you’re catch them throughout the year. 00;41;39;19 – 00;41;56;21 Frank Yeah. And then they’re sizes you know so you know it’s we backtrack a little bit you know just on on network of people that are out there catching, you know all of a sudden one day or for a week or so, there’s, you know, good sized perch being caught, you know, and then the next you might have, you know, an associate going out. 00;41;56;21 – 00;42;11;25 Frank And then they’re like, hey, I got a bunch of little and when I say little, they’re are palm size even smaller than that. You know, they’re, you know, like three inches, four inches, you know, and we’re just kind of like trying to put that together. Were they in their dropping babies? Where those ones in there the whole time, Why were these bigger ones in the mix? 00;42;12;10 – 00;42;27;09 Frank But it’s you know, it’s it’s kind of like has its time when they come in and they’re, you know, in the spawn, you know, and that could have been the last go around or were they dropping babies, you know, this last few months, you know, and then in the like February, March timeframe, you know, it’s starting to see bigger ones. 00;42;27;09 – 00;42;48;17 Frank And then, you know, then you kind of find some holes in the middle of the season that, you know, you’re able to pull out some. You know, when I say decent, you know, they’re they’re you know, they’re the tip of the nose and the tail is hanging outside of your palm. You know, So that’s a decent one. You know, some of the bigger ones that have been being caught, I mean, they’re people putting the time in, you know, and the time is only like an hour or two that they put in. 00;42;48;17 – 00;43;05;22 Frank But it’s quality time in a quality location where there should be fish. And they’re picking up those bigger fish, whether it’s their cast that’s getting further out. And those bigger fish are hanging out there more or those just bigger fish that have come in and they’re doing something and the person was in the right place, right time with that part of fish. 00;43;06;13 – 00;43;13;16 Dave What is the fish? You know, you talked about Kirby in a little bit. Is it similar to how you’re fishing for Kirby, for sharks to describe that? How would you would hook into a shark? 00;43;14;05 – 00;43;32;05 Frank Yeah, same thing. So I’m you know, once we identify them, you know, I mean, it could be that you’re seeing their tail as they’re kind of, you know, going back to the open ocean and you’re going to you’re going to sit on that for a little. You just saw one. And usually, you know, if you’re with someone or you’re by yourself, you’re going to sit on that and watch it and see if they come back in. 00;43;32;05 – 00;43;54;08 Frank And then you’re going to see if you can identify multiple and then you’re going to see of how far they go left or right, up or down north or south. And at that point, once you’re kind of seen if they’re kind of just hanging out in that area, mowing around either, you know, hanging out with each other and checking each other out, you know, so they’re maybe, you know, maybe a priest on or spawn and type thing or they’re just hanging out together, eating, and it’s just time for them to be around. 00;43;55;04 – 00;44;24;11 Frank I just make sure that they’re going to kind of stay in that same location doesn’t mean I haven’t walked, you know, four or five life guard towers up and, you know, same thing back down to follow them and put cast out. But it’s going to be, you know, putting that fly out in front of them or tracking it diagonally across them, letting them see, you know, the profile of either a baitfish, if in if they’re not taking my baitfish pattern at that point, you know, maybe I am throwing on like a a closer, you know, something that’s a little bit bigger profile but that Yeah. 00;44;24;11 – 00;44;41;18 Frank Just comes down to getting it, you know, for them to, you know, approach it, you know, their mouths are underneath on the underside of them. So it’s, you know, using a bigger hook is a bigger potential for for you hooking them in the mouth, you know, and then likewise, you know, rod tips down in your strip and, you know, your your cadence is getting adjusted. 00;44;41;18 – 00;44;56;18 Frank And, you know, so you find that right cadence for them to eat and to be interested in your your pattern and, you know, it’s a strip set, you know, good solid strips. And even after I strip that and I’m in there running and, you know, you get people to I get a second strip set and they’re very that hook in there. 00;44;57;01 – 00;45;22;06 Frank And yeah, it just comes down to fighting them. You know, they go left, you go right with your rod. You know, you keep that rod angle at 45 degrees. You know, you, you make sure you’re drags you know, in that set at a decent amount sometimes if you’re not feeling good and they’re taking more it’s kind of that that fine line do you play with your drag right You just use your palm know I feel a little more confident having the drag and using my palm because I know it’s only going to last a small duration. 00;45;22;12 – 00;45;39;19 Frank Yeah, Yeah. And then I’ll gain on them again. And if you know, I feel confident enough, maybe I’ll put like a couple three turns on it knowing I didn’t feel like I had enough pressure on it. But it’s almost like you’re adjusting your drag when you know you’re to be thrown at him as opposed to like, you know, your drag set with a core being or even a perch. 00;45;39;19 – 00;45;57;13 Frank You know, perch were stripping in my hand. So it’s, you know, when you’re with those beings, you know, you have your, you know, drag set, you know, but not to a significant amount of pressure, but enough. So you’re not getting backlash, but enough to put pressure on them and wear them down a little bit. But yeah, just making those adjustments on your your drag prior to casting items, big. 00;45;59;10 – 00;46;21;24 Dave Pest control on the Fly offers a full spectrum of fly fishing gear for any angler at any budget by bring in high performance rods directly to the angler. They eliminate the middleman, mark up, saving you time and money. The top tiered El Ray series is designed for serious anglers with the El Rey G6 being the most packable high performance rod on the market and most anglers who try the G6 can’t believe it is a six piece rod. 00;46;21;24 – 00;46;39;19 Dave It performs just like a four piece. There’s no difference in performance whether you’re fishing local streams or embarking on your next adventure across the world, the G6 delivers precision and power. Wherever you go, you can get 10% off your next order. Right now, if you use the code wet fly swing at checkout. That’s pescatore on the fly dot com. 00;46;39;19 – 00;47;01;09 Dave Use the code wet fly swing for 10% off. Never fly without your g six. Discover the El Rey series and more at Pescatore on the fly Dcop. We’re going to jump into a few more tips from you here, but I want to do a quick little segment before we start to take it out of here is this is our wet fly swing trivia segment. 00;47;01;09 – 00;47;17;07 Dave We’ve been having fun with this on the podcast here. And today I’m going to have a question about what we’ve been talking about. And and this is to be fun because the way this is going to work, people can just we’re going to post on Instagram and the question today is going to be what do CORBIJN fish mainly on? 00;47;17;07 – 00;47;34;15 Dave And we’ve been talking about this today. There’s a few different species. So, you know, the question is what is curbing? And people listening right now, you know, basically to answer this is you can just go at where fly swinging and at Trout Roots, which is presented by today, trout roots on Instagram. And then we will select a winner. 00;47;34;24 – 00;47;51;22 Dave And then that winner is going to get some goodies. We’re going to get some swag together from trout rights and give a free yearly membership to trout, right? So that’s what we’re doing here. And so put your answer to that question in what you call being a mainly fish, mainly feed on. And then I’m going to circle around and see and choose a winner. 00;47;51;22 – 00;48;03;05 Dave It’s not going to be necessarily the first person, the first person I get there when I’m on social. So that’s the question. I’m sure we’ve been talking about this a little bit today, Frank, but what else have we missed? As we, you know today? You know, from our conversation? 00;48;03;15 – 00;48;32;28 Frank Yeah, you know what? Just come into the fisherman spot I think is key. And are you guys, you know, people out there want to learn more. I mean, we’re here to educate, you know, it’s, you know, we’re we’re willing to share our knowledge. We’re willing to grow your experience. You know, we’re willing you know, it’s what we want the community to do is we want to grow it and cultivate it, you know, with five fishers that have that experience etiquette, you know, we’re always pushing etiquette, you know, And it’s you know, we’re always saying hi to each other out there on the on the water and likewise understanding like I need to give space. 00;48;32;28 – 00;48;53;15 Frank But I think, you know, like just, you know, establishing, you know, one of the last five fishing shops in Southern California, is it, I believe. Yeah. I mean, we had you know, Bob Marriott’s closed down, you know, Orvis just their last day of business was the day before Christmas, Christmas Eve. Crazy, you know, just kind of looking at who’s kind of left right now in the Los Angeles area. 00;48;53;15 – 00;49;24;00 Frank I mean, it’s fisherman spot. So to that place, Dorian, I mean, I just really recommend, you know, all our locals, you know, stop in and buy local, you know, and likewise when you stop it and buy local, you’re you’re talking to local fly fisherman, you know. So I mean, to be honest with you are fishing, you know, between Dave and myself and, you know, some of the other folks in there, we’re fishing all the way south from Magdalena Bay, all the way up to British Columbia, Montana being a favorite of, you know, the locals of ours, you know, our fly tire instructor or myself, you know, So it’s, you know, say we fish everywhere. 00;49;24;00 – 00;49;30;10 Frank Yeah. The experience is, you know, from salt to fresh water to warm water to brackish water to there’s a puddle of there. 00;49;30;10 – 00;49;41;15 Dave So the travel program, I mean, like you guys have people that are there that live in town and their fish and they do have these opportunities like we talked about today. But they also are traveling a lot around the country, around the North America, wherever. 00;49;41;24 – 00;50;03;04 Frank Yeah. And that’s where the shop comes in and be well rounded. You know, we do realize, you know, maybe our customer base is taking trips to Billy’s or to Patagonia or, you know, to British Columbia or anywhere else, you know, to go fish for Tarpon. So the shop being versed in multiple lines and knowledge, you know, that that’s that’s what we bring You know it’s it’s come in and get that you know direct contact with us with our experience that we have. 00;50;03;04 – 00;50;04;10 Frank And let us get you dialed in. 00;50;04;18 – 00;50;19;24 Dave Exactly. That’s sweet. Yeah. So that’s a big part of it. And what is it like you, the shop. So you mentioned the fisherman spot. When you walk in the door, it’s always interesting. I haven’t been there, but is it? What do you see when you first walk in the door? Is it kind of fleeting materials? You have a mix of stuff. 00;50;19;24 – 00;50;20;18 Dave What is that first. 00;50;20;20 – 00;50;34;07 Frank Year, right When you walk through the door? I mean you’re going to look at all our signage in the window as you’re walking up, you know, and then you’re going to walk in and out and enjoy that. We have a hardy format, you know, Hardy’s been a big journey. Okay. Hardy I would five fish fishing. So I mean, that’s your format to me. 00;50;34;07 – 00;50;48;12 Frank I’m like, okay, we got to keep that clean and front and center, you know? But overall, you walk in, we got like some luggage off to the right, we got a rod rack off to the right, you know, and then you got your packs and stuff to the left and you start walking down, there’s a tire, and then all of a sudden there’s flies to the right. 00;50;48;12 – 00;51;02;17 Frank And if you’re looking at the big picture straight in front of you, the weight or wall, you know, off to the you know, there’s flight time material off to the left. We’ve got collectibles and you get to the counter and you’re going to see the rails. You’re going to you’re going to see, you know, specialty items we have. 00;51;02;26 – 00;51;05;09 Dave Is the counter in the back or the front from the door. 00;51;05;10 – 00;51;05;23 Frank It’s in the. 00;51;05;23 – 00;51;06;13 Dave Back, in the. 00;51;06;13 – 00;51;17;00 Frank Back, in the back. So, yeah, I mean, honestly, that you’re going to hear a halo and, you know, if I’m in the shop, bring out the music playing, we’re going to, you know, have this vibe going, right? We’re going, What are you doing? Welcome in, What’s going on? 00;51;17;02 – 00;51;21;14 Dave Are you guys ever tired or is there somebody time flies. You have a little station there for that. 00;51;21;14 – 00;51;35;04 Frank We do. You know what we do once in a while? Usually Sundays, we kind of like encourage people to come in and try and hang out, you know, so building that community. But we have vices set up that we’re selling. And there’s usually something if one of us spins something, you’ll see a collection of flies that we’ve done. 00;51;35;14 – 00;51;50;04 Frank I mean, it’s just based on, you know, we’re kind of busy downtime, you know, it’s downtime. It’s, it’s a little more challenging to tie. I mean, I do enjoy when I have time there, you know, And I’m someone walks in and I’m tying up some flies and they’re like, Oh, what are you doing? You know, you get to show him some stuff. 00;51;50;04 – 00;52;08;27 Frank And even if they’re not tying, they’re like it just, you know, it’s it’s a conversation that starts and maybe they wanted to start doing it, you know, And then you know what The class is going on, though, with fly tying classes, introduction to fly fishing, introduction to fly fish in the surf, etc.. There’s, you know, all kinds of people walk in to by type and all of a sudden they’re like, Oh, there’s a fly time class. 00;52;08;27 – 00;52;24;17 Frank I need to get on that. And so, you know, we’re generating, you know, people’s education. So it’s just to broaden everyone’s experience and have some more that they can call their shop is what I look at. You know, they want to be part of something. We want to be part of their life and vice versa. So and it’s you know, it’s something big. 00;52;24;23 – 00;52;32;16 Dave That’s really cool. And we talked about this at the start, but the intro to Fly Fishing, the Surf, what does that look like? Is that a in class or like in class and on the water? 00;52;32;23 – 00;52;48;10 Frank Yeah, a lot of times we’ll go out on the water, you know, I mean, that’s that’s to me it’s you already got that experience fly fishing. So it’s, you know, getting out on the water and looking at those tides, you know, precursor, you know, either they need gear, they’re going to use some gear, you know, So it’s going out on the water. 00;52;48;10 – 00;53;02;00 Frank Meet that, oh, Dark 30, treating it the way we are going to be fishing, you know, But it’s also understanding if it’s their first time out there, we got to, you know, obviously going to kind of go over some basic, you know, safety, safety rules and, you know, identify way we’ll kind of wait till the sun come up. 00;53;02;00 – 00;53;18;03 Frank You know, we’re going to be throwing a sink in line, you know, so it’s getting hands on, getting your feet wet or not where, you know, based on what we’re going to be fishing for and just putting that time and developing your experience. So, you know, you have this carousel of of different experiences, different views of what you’re looking for and. 00;53;18;03 – 00;53;23;02 Frank You can pull each one every time you go to a beach or different beach. Yeah, it’s hands on. 00;53;23;09 – 00;53;34;21 Dave Yeah, it sounds pretty cool. It sounds like you guys have have a little community down there with the shop. And who is the the owner? The owner of the shop or the owners who are Its been there a while right. That you’ve been the shop’s been there quite a while. 00;53;35;02 – 00;53;47;11 Frank Yeah. It’s been there is. I want to say you know timeframe that it’s been there I think I want to say has been there since like 1960 I believe. Yeah. I was there. 00;53;47;11 – 00;53;47;26 Dave A long time. 00;53;47;26 – 00;54;08;10 Frank Yeah. I mean it’s, but it was, it was all gear fishing in the beginning, you know, there was a small, you know, 1970 I’ll say is when when Steve was came in the ownership is what it was, you know, and it was generally building rods, you know, jig wall, you know, small little section of fly fishing. And then, you know, in 2000 or so, they decided that, you know, turn the whole shop over to fly fish. 00;54;08;10 – 00;54;22;13 Dave And I think this is great. I think you guys cover a lot. You know, it’s not only the you know, just the surf. I mean, you’ve got all this travel going around and you’ve got a great shop. Again, it’s one of the last ones that are remaining there, which is really kind of crazy to think with all the people down there. 00;54;22;13 – 00;54;39;06 Dave But but tell me this, because I think we talked off air about your story. You’ve got an interesting story getting into fly fishing. Maybe, maybe. Let’s hear that before we start to take it out of here. How did you bring it back? How did you get into this? You know, you’re guiding you’re doing all this stuff. Has this been a long story to get to where you are now? 00;54;39;17 – 00;54;55;28 Frank Uh, I yeah, I mean, if we’re. Yeah, I mean, I can keep it simple. You know, there’s the story of, you know, your dad gives you this fly right at 60, and he’s going to teach you to fly fish. And, you know, it’s, you know, just busy, you know? I mean, it was, to be honest with you, at school, comes into play football, you know? 00;54;55;28 – 00;55;15;28 Frank So I grew up fishing with him, fly fishing rod handed to me one day, we’re going to do this. And why teach you to you know, career takes off as a career wildland firefighter, you know, 15 years. So fishing was kind of like opening day and closing day and maybe in between in the summer. So like three times a year type thing. 00;55;15;28 – 00;55;30;08 Frank And I was just gear fishing one season. I went up to go be a smoke jumper that came across these my my rookie brothers. And, you know, they were building rods and time flies. And I was like, this is the stuff my dad was talking about. So I would tag along with them. And this is like in 2002. 00;55;30;19 – 00;55;49;07 Frank And so when I got home after that season and after watching them and just observing how they were casting what they were doing, I was like, I got to do this. I got to focus on this and do it. So I stopped carrying my spinner on and took the fly right out. And, you know, like I said, like three times a year, you know, for anywhere from 3 to 5 days, I would be out fishing. 00;55;49;21 – 00;56;05;04 Frank But it took me a good year of teaching myself. You know, I think if you’ve taught yourself, we all kind of go through all that the wringer, everything, and it’s like a full year to finally catch, you know, a little 12 inch trout. And it was the most rewarding thing. And so I just kind of continue that path. 00;56;05;04 – 00;56;25;04 Frank And so then I going to say, unfortunately, but fortunately, if I look at it in the positive way, you know, I was in this car accident. It was a traumatic car accident, traumatic brain injury, and I got medically retired. You know, things that come with my brain injury was, you know, as I was in recovery, you know, and rehabilitation wise, you know, I became real recluse. 00;56;25;27 – 00;56;47;03 Frank My parents ended up medically retiring. You know, I was married at the time. And, you know, to help take care of me, get me back on my feet, literally. But in that whole time frame, you know, my dad being a disabled vet, he was like, when I retire, I’m going to go do this. This project, Healing Waters. And part of my story is that, you know, with me being recluse, my dad’s like, he’s looking at his son, which is me. 00;56;47;03 – 00;57;01;12 Frank And he’s like, Man, I got to get this. I got to bring something to this kid. And so he tells me like, Hey, I need your help. I’m going to project Healing Waters. You know, I can’t hear you. Well, maybe you can help me. And I was like, Yeah, cool. And long story short, it’s, you know, it’s there for him. 00;57;01;12 – 00;57;19;08 Frank But likewise, the community took me to was fly fishing and the disabled vets were welcome in. For some reason, I they mistook me as one of them and, you know, very welcoming. But even after that, once they found out, it was obviously more from my dad, you know, they were just, you know, really helpful. There was the exposure to all this. 00;57;19;08 – 00;57;39;07 Frank You know, I met people at at that point. Then, you know, as we’re kind of going, we were asked to join a club. Sierra Pacific Fly Fish is a local San Fernando fly fishing club. And so with meeting them, they’re like, Hey, have you guys been the fishermen spot? It’s our local fly shop. So my education of fly fishing, it’s just all of a sudden now growing exponentially moments in time frames. 00;57;39;07 – 00;57;57;25 Frank And it was it was big. And so then I meet these guys at Fishermen Spot. So I meet Dave and meet Steve. I meet the old owner, Ken. And you know, I was almost in there every other day. You know, me and my dad would kind of just go in there and hang out. And so part of my thing is like, I would belong to a traumatic brain injury survivor group. 00;57;57;25 – 00;58;13;26 Frank And we had a person come in and talk about the Department of Rehab. And so I made contact with Department of Rehab. And, you know, it was a pipe dream. I’m like, Can you guys help me figure out how to get my guy license and, you know, pursue this career and, you know, and the outdoors and educating people. 00;58;13;26 – 00;58;29;18 Frank And they’re like, yeah, what what do we got to do? And so at that point, you know, I mean, I was out there putting time in. That’s what I was recommended from my buddy Dean. It was like, you know, go put a time in when you get a chance, you know, kind of follow me around on my guide trips, on my classes. 00;58;29;18 – 00;59;00;14 Frank You know, you sit in and kind of see how he runs things. Another gentleman, Lee Berman, you know, another mentor to me, he ties wise here locally. We saw him in the shop. You know, I was able to fish with him and, you know, just kind of learn, you know, I fish in the surf for him. So, you know, all the people that kind of put that time in before me, learning from them, reading books just really, you know, really focusing, you know, to become proficient and to be able to, you know, explain to people and teach people, you know, what it is that we’re doing and how to be become successful or how to 00;59;00;17 – 00;59;21;13 Frank increase your chances to become successful. Right. So to me, it’s like time on the water makes you better from catching the fishing to understanding it. So it was just put in that time. And and likewise, I don’t know if we caught, you know, Department of Rehab had helped me, you know, kind of through that whole program. And, you know, that’s what really got the ball rolling that the big kicker was, you know, Project healing waters. 00;59;21;13 – 00;59;37;29 Frank You know, getting the job at the shop was was a big part of it. And, you know, throughout the seasons, you know, being able to to guide and instruct and, you know, do things was was key, you know, and now being in the shop just being able to to help people get started is is one of the biggest things that’s the most rewarding part. 00;59;38;14 – 00;59;47;14 Dave Yeah. Wow. And so now you’re there basically all the time you’re guiding throughout the year is that if somebody wanted to get a trip, how would they do that? Just through the fly shop? 00;59;47;27 – 01;00;11;26 Frank Yeah, they could contact me through the fly shop. Basically. This is kind of usually how it works. And then we just, you know, set up sometimes that that work for them and we go out and do that. It’s, you know, and likewise we’re just bringing customers in is the big picture and building that relationship. You know, once we get them started, you know, we’re, you know, building that relationship that they’re going to keep coming back for for the knowledge, for the gear, for everything. 01;00;11;26 – 01;00;27;27 Frank And that’s kind of where I think it is. We’re looking at building, you know, our customer base as, you know, our friends, too. And then supporting our local fly shop, you know, And that’s what’s going to keep, you know, that knowledge being pressed out. And likewise, if we educate people, they’re educating people. So it’s just this big ripple effect that happens. 01;00;28;01 – 01;00;29;07 Frank Yeah, no, this is great. 01;00;29;07 – 01;00;45;03 Dave And well, take us back just to wrap this up on what we talked about. We talked about Cabana and some of the other species. What are two or three tips that you’re telling somebody? You know, they’re getting ready to head out there for the first time on the surf. What are a few things you’re telling them to get ready to maybe have more success? 01;00;45;13 – 01;00;47;12 Frank You know, obviously, just think stealthy. 01;00;47;16 – 01;00;48;10 Dave Yeah. Stealth. 01;00;48;10 – 01;01;07;14 Frank Yeah. Being a stealth is you can’t presentation, you know, we’re not working at, you know, Chuck in and duck in and slap in the water to get their attention. You know we’re trying to usually lay in a delicate cast, you know, being able to see the fish or casting, you know, if we’re per se going to go if they’re going to go look for Cabana overall, you know, that’s about it. 01;01;07;14 – 01;01;10;02 Frank You know, I like tip it. 01;01;10;08 – 01;01;14;22 Dave Yeah. What is your tip? What you said, £25. Is that what would that be for Cabana. 01;01;14;25 – 01;01;38;29 Frank £25 will be for the leopard sharks. You know, as far as you know, you can go anywhere from 12 to £10 tip, you know, 3 to 6 feet, sometimes eight feet long, nine feet long, just based on how spooky that accord being it might be. But usually right around £10 is what I usually run. You know, people, if it’s their first time, you know, I’ll tell them like, Hey, you can run 12 and then you can decide from there. 01;01;38;29 – 01;01;57;11 Frank If you want to go down to ten, if you want to go down to eight and you know, give it a little bit, you know, play it a little bit more. Use your rod to be your shock absorber. You know, don’t horse them in at £8 unless you’re you know, you’re comfortable if you’re comfortable enough and know how to play a fish on a pound and you know, deal with the surf and the surge and the tide and all that, and then go for it. 01;01;57;11 – 01;02;13;11 Frank But I think like overall it just find the fish first, observe their behavior and, you know, see what they’re they’re eating it. I mean, that’s pretty obvious if they’re feeding on the crabs, you’re going to see them coming into that sand and, you know, trying to loosen up the crabs to eat. 01;02;13;17 – 01;02;19;15 Dave Yeah. What if they’re feeding on fish like other? Are they also feeding on little you know, what other fish are swimming or out there? 01;02;19;23 – 01;02;36;01 Frank I you know, I’ve caught them on a flashy black over white. You know, when the grunion run happens, you know, the the shore gets packed with multiple species of fish. So, I mean, I’ve been out there and like, okay, I’m, I go catch a halibut because the grunion are running and the halibut are going to come in. So I need to chuck a baitfish. 01;02;36;01 – 01;02;39;06 Frank Well, and behold, I’ve got, you know, of course, being on baitfish patterns. 01;02;39;13 – 01;02;40;04 Dave So it does happen. 01;02;40;05 – 01;02;51;07 Frank I mean, are they opportunistic and eating, you know, smaller little fish maybe. I mean, I’ve caught them on that, whether it was their getting their attention, but it was, you know, the intent to catch something else and catch in some caught being in the mix. 01;02;51;16 – 01;03;01;16 Dave Cool. And what about a resource if somebody wanted to take this conversation further on the surf, is there a book, you know, video, some person that you’d recommend? 01;03;01;26 – 01;03;17;27 Frank I mean, do you call the shop a fisherman spot? You’ll be able to talk to me, can reach out to me. For example, I shack on Instagram always, you know, I mean, from there we’re DMing and getting conversations going. And likewise, it goes to like, here’s my phone number, contact me or come into the shop. We can get you know, that’s that’s a classroom there too, that we’re utilizing. 01;03;18;01 – 01;03;43;29 Frank So it’s you know, you want to talk, you know, shop with me like that. That’s what I do encourage you know, I’m not the sale and all type thing, but I’m a part of, you know, getting you educated. You know, there’s people like when you Ada there’s out. Q There’s Lieberman, Dean, Andras, you know, these are all people that have put that time in, that have that experience they’re willing to share, you know, So there’s there’s a good, good handful of people that, you know, or educators that, you know, want to see is successful. 01;03;43;29 – 01;04;02;11 Frank And you can reach out to them. There’s books, you know, fly fishing, the surf by Lieberman, there’s our queues. Or being a diary is and you know that breaks down a lot. You know and and I have all those books you know it’s I refer back to them. You know, it’s you know those books that you hold on to that that make your experience, you know, broadens your experience. 01;04;02;11 – 01;04;21;20 Frank And it’s just something you can refer back to, you know? But, you know, for me, myself, personally, I do enjoy talking and meeting somebody, you know, and even from my own experience, you know, to go gain knowledge and experience, you know, talking on the phone and like, Hey, can I come meet you where you work at? Or, you know, we’re we’re somewhere that we can have a face to face, you know, just building that relationship. 01;04;21;20 – 01;04;35;27 Frank You know, you’re going to it just go so much further. But I mean, fisherman spot, you know, I definitely recommend yours. Give us a call. If I’m not there, ask when I’m going to be. They’re asked to leave a message for me and I’ll reach back out. I mean, the biggest thing I see is like, you know, I just want to put it out there. 01;04;35;27 – 01;04;53;03 Frank You know, the the young folks coming in and the women, you know, that community is growing. And, you know, there’s a lot of women out there. And, you know, I hear them say, you know, they want somewhere comfortable. And that’s what we’re all trying to create for everybody. You know, we have a saltwater fly writers club on it, meets all the fishermen spot. 01;04;53;03 – 01;05;10;29 Frank I’m the president there. And, you know, the last meeting that, you know, we had a couple more women come in and, you know, we’re all diverse, you know. So, I mean, part of my thing was like, hey, you know, there’s no color lines, there’s no gender lines. There’s only five fishing lines that we worry about here. We want all to feel welcome and inclusive, you know, and want to educate everybody. 01;05;10;29 – 01;05;30;28 Frank And we want people to stand in their their power and knowledge and grow it and cultivated, you know, just because I fish. So it doesn’t mean I don’t fish freshwater, you know, I mean, it’s so I was I was raised fishing for trout. You know, it’s just now as as I’m here in Southern California, you know, this is what, you know, we that’s kind of like our specialty, you know, working in Montana. 01;05;30;28 – 01;05;50;25 Frank That was my specialty, fishing for trout. You know, it’s it’s it’s just becoming diverse in every fishery that I’m around, you know, And anything that I can travel to and have that experience grown and fishing with other people, too, and gaining that, that’s where we’re at. And then it comes back to the shop and then it comes back to the clubs and then it comes back to, you know, education of people. 01;05;50;25 – 01;05;59;15 Frank It’s become proficient in that and being able to put people in the right direction with gear, with locations, with work and how to do it. That’s kind of where I look at. 01;05;59;15 – 01;06;04;17 Dave So and the clubs are great too. What was the name of the club that you’re involved? Were there a couple down there? 01;06;04;26 – 01;06;25;05 Frank And there was. So I’m involved with Saltwater Fly Rodders Pacific One. Our meetings are the second Tuesday of every month from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.. On that Tuesday. We kind of it’s on the President there. So we we have a you know, we have a, you know, kind of dinner with people, bring in pizza and appetizers and desserts. 01;06;25;05 – 01;06;48;14 Frank And the first half hour we’re kind of just hanging out, talking, eating 632 sevens, kind of like our club, our little small club, meaning that we have, you know, just bringing everyone up to date do’s, etc., you know, the plan for the future and then we usually have someone come in and give a presentation anywhere from Flight 9 to 5 fish in the surf to, you know, calico fly patterns, Long Beach, breakwall patterns. 01;06;48;28 – 01;06;53;28 Frank You know it’s a club that had been around for so long, and then it got dissolved in the cove and Time for you. 01;06;53;29 – 01;06;54;03 Dave Oh. 01;06;54;16 – 01;06;58;08 Frank Yeah, Yeah. So we just brought it back in the last 4 to 5 months. 01;06;58;08 – 01;06;59;13 Dave Wow. Nice. 01;06;59;27 – 01;07;25;00 Frank Yeah. So it’s, you know, we have a good, you know, the the age group. I mean, it’s, it’s right in line with anywhere. I mean, our youngest right now is probably like 25, you know, and then the average is going to be probably 40. Yeah. And on average, 35 to 40. And then, you know, I just call them our home guard, you know, the the older club members that were like, oh, we’re bummed to see the clubs no longer functioning, but they’re still doing chips. 01;07;25;00 – 01;07;41;15 Frank They’re hanging out together. When we brought it back that, that whole group kind of came back, you know. So it’s, you know, the big focus, I would say is we have a good, you know, middle age group with young folks involved in encouraging that. And then we just have those home guards that kind of just passed. They passed on that experience. 01;07;41;15 – 01;07;56;08 Frank So I have friends that aren’t even guys that, you know, educated me and mentored me and showed me the way, you know, And it’s just like those are role models to them in what we do here. You know, it’s passing on that knowledge, skills and abilities in a way that people understand it and can utilize it. Yeah, well, that’s great. 01;07;56;08 – 01;08;00;26 Dave Yeah. So that’s the salt in there. Was there another one the Sierra was at. There’s the salt water, the main club down there. 01;08;01;05 – 01;08;19;02 Frank That’s the club I’m associated with now in shop. You know, it’s where we do it for Sierra Pacific. Fly Fishers is one also started out a fisherman spot okay on the seventies so I mean and that’s still around. Yeah I mean there’s a lot I mean the the major ones that I think of would be obviously the Pasadena Carson Club. 01;08;19;02 – 01;08;20;11 Frank Long Beach. Carson Club. 01;08;20;11 – 01;08;21;26 Dave Yeah. Long Beach, Right, right, right. 01;08;22;01 – 01;08;31;09 Frank Yeah. In the immediate area, you know, there’s CSB, there’s Santa Barbara, you know, So there’s a variety. We got, you know, ones that are in the current area, too, you know? Yeah, it’s. 01;08;31;10 – 01;08;33;18 Dave More clubs than fly shops, it sounds like down there. 01;08;34;03 – 01;08;43;18 Frank Right. But I mean, that goes to show how many fly fishers are that are associated with clubs and then there’s also ones that aren’t. So I mean, it kind of is like a half and half. You know, it’s it serves its. 01;08;43;18 – 01;08;44;24 Dave Purpose for what. 01;08;44;24 – 01;08;59;08 Frank You’re looking for, you know, and if you just want to come in and just meet people on the beach, on the water, you have that opportunity. If you want to be associated with the club, you want to gain knowledge. You know, I think our salt water fly Writers Club like opens that door to like, Hey, we do more than just fish for trout. 01;08;59;17 – 01;09;05;03 Frank You know, it’s and things we specialize in project healing waters another good thing the local chapter. 01;09;05;10 – 01;09;19;05 Dave Yeah it’s right project We’re doing some stuff with them this year too. This is no I think you mentioned a lot of great groups. I think today maybe we’ll leave it there and we’ll circle back around with you later on. You know, next year and see how things are going. I think we covered it pretty well, sent everybody out. 01;09;19;05 – 01;09;27;17 Dave We mentioned it fisherman spot dot com if they have questions for you. And also on Instagram remind us again what’s your best Instagram your handle there. 01;09;27;28 – 01;09;29;22 Frank Frank flashback for me Yeah. 01;09;29;22 – 01;09;31;06 Dave There you go for yourself Yeah. 01;09;31;06 – 01;09;34;21 Frank And then Fisherman Spot has an Instagram too as. 01;09;34;21 – 01;09;43;25 Dave Well. Okay. A fisherman spot. Cool. We’ll follow both those. And yeah, this is awesome. Frank, appreciate all your time today. This has been great to hear the stories and all the tips and we’ll stay in touch with you. Thanks again. 01;09;44;06 – 01;09;48;18 Frank Awesome. Thanks for having me. I appreciate that a lot. All right. 01;09;49;01 – 01;10;08;23 Dave If you get a chance for a head out of here, head over and check in with Frank fisherman, spot dot com, Give him a call and let him know you heard this podcast. If you’re in town or swing in through there, definitely stop by. It sounds like it’s one of the last remaining fly shops down there. I know they would love to hear from you and you can get a little insight on taking this to the next step when Fly Swing Pro. 01;10;08;23 – 01;10;25;26 Dave As always, if you’re interested in booking trips, getting access to our community and connecting with listeners of this podcast, go to fly swing dot com pro. We’ll let you know when we open up the doors for the next cohort. I also want to give you a heads up. We’ve got a bunch of stuff going on next month as we speak. 01;10;26;12 – 01;10;50;16 Dave We’ve got a big event to if you haven’t heard of the Teton Valley Lodge, Teton Valley Lodge, we’re going to be opening that up next month and talking more about as we go. I hope you enjoy this one and hope you have a chance to explore that big trip next. And I hope you’re having a good morning. Good afternoon or good evening and appreciate you for stopping in and listen all the way to then we’ll see you on that next episode and have a good one. 01;10;51;05 – 01;10;54;25 Dave Thanks for listening to the wet fly Swing fly fishing show for. 01;10;54;25 – 01;11;00;22 Speaker 3 Notes and links from this episode. Visit Wet Fly, swing, Dotcom.