819 | Kelly Reaume on Backcountry Skinz – Neoprene Leggings, Fly Fishing Calgary Alberta, Bull Trout

Podcast Transcript – Dave with Guest Kelly Reaume [00:00:02,039] Today’s guests build a brand from the ground up in the Canadian backcountry. [00:00:05,712] Kelly Rome, co-founder of Backcountry Skin started this with nothing more than an idea in his garage. [00:00:11,837] They created something lighter, warmer, and more mobile than typical waders. [00:00:17,401] That idea became the Z-Series neoprene leggings now worn from Alberta to New Zealand. [00:00:22,645] This is the Webfly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip. [00:00:29,718] and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. [00:00:33,683] Kelly Rome is here from BackcountrySkins. [00:00:35,575] By the end of this episode, you’re gonna find out how Kelly and his brother doubled their business year after year, why anglers are swapping out waiters for breathable neoprene [00:00:45,285] pants, and what it feels like to watch major outdoor brands chase the product that they invented. [00:00:51,726] We’re also going to dig into some new designs like the air blitz pants, light lock socks and everything else they have going. [00:00:57,440] Let’s find out what Kelly’s been up to. [00:00:59,241] Here we go. [00:00:59,652] You can find him at backcountryskins.com. [00:01:04,738] How you doing, Kelly? [00:01:06,144] Everything’s good over here. [00:01:07,209] How about you Dave? [00:01:08,214] Good man, good. [00:01:09,075] I’m excited to do a little update on backcountry skins. [00:01:13,198] You know, in all transparency, I have worn your stuff, uh you know, Meg and my wife has been wearing it a lot more and I gotta say she’s totally loving it. [00:01:21,855] So I don’t have her here with me to do the uh total summary, but she’s been wearing, you know, your pants. [00:01:27,570] I think this is kind of your flagship product, which are your neoprene full Page 1 pants. [00:01:32,513] uh [00:01:33,184] instead of waiters, you know what mean? [00:01:34,585] So we’re going to talk everything back country skins today. [00:01:36,626] We’re going to get an update. [00:01:37,367] It’s been about two years since you guys have been on here and I want to hear what’s new, what’s coming. [00:01:44,061] But yeah, man, give us an update right now. [00:01:45,542] It’s kind of September as we’re talking. [00:01:47,873] This probably goes live in October. [00:01:49,564] What’s going on this time? [00:01:50,459] You guys out fishing and traveling? [00:01:51,695] What are you doing? [00:01:52,526] Yeah. [00:01:52,974] We’ve been out doing a lot of both of those things. [00:01:55,886] You said when the fall comes, it’s when fishing usually picks up again. [00:02:00,340] um for just been out filming, fishing, just staying super busy with the brand as well. [00:02:08,396] Yep. [00:02:08,908] Yeah. [00:02:09,691] And remind everybody where you’re uh located. [00:02:13,626] We’re based out of Calgary Alberta and up here in Canada actually so one of the things really going on right now too is With the brand or that we’ve been currently dealing with [00:02:25,720] is these these terrorists [00:02:27,846] right, yeah has that been tough? [00:02:30,261] I haven’t kept up with all that. [00:02:31,813] Yeah. [00:02:32,298] um the uh [00:02:51,573] It is a challenge, right? Page 2 [00:02:52,852] And I don’t know the whole, mean, basically the big story is it’s you’re paying tariffs, right? [00:02:57,685] Like taxes, more taxes to ship stuff across the border is that kind of how it works. [00:03:02,092] Yeah, like before it wasn’t really affecting us, but the new ones that just came in in August 29th, it’s basically every parcel going across the border, depending on the code of [00:03:13,311] the product and the origin basically is getting tariff, which most of the consumers are getting the tariffs, which is making surprise costs, right? [00:03:23,342] Oh, that’s what’s happening. [00:03:25,063] Yeah. [00:03:25,414] people, people are getting going to the post office and they’re going to pick up their package from Canada. [00:03:30,768] And the post office is like, this is going to cost you an extra whatever. [00:03:34,331] And so you got to pay it like I would have to pay it right. [00:03:37,013] To get that package. [00:03:38,206] Exactly. [00:03:38,877] Yeah. [00:03:39,247] So we’ve just been really busy the last couple of weeks just trying to figure alternative plans like shipping hubs in the States and I and stuff like that. [00:03:48,580] So that’s been keeping us busy more than even fishing. [00:03:53,430] Right, right, So that’s what you have to do. [00:03:55,473] You have to go out and basically create a US, where your products are in the US, right? [00:04:00,569] So they can ship out from US directly. [00:04:02,186] Yeah. [00:04:02,796] Yeah, that’s kind of where we’re at right now, which I think is just beneficial because most of our sales are in the States. [00:04:10,842] Yeah, exactly. [00:04:13,282] Yeah, it’s an interesting thing because it’s, you know, Canada is obviously a smaller country population wise, you know, so, but there’s really not a lot of difference. [00:04:22,122] You know, I always feel like, you know, I’ve got so many friends in Canada that Page 3 I feel like, I mean, we’re the same, you know what I mean? [00:04:27,942] The only difference is, that we’re different countries, but I feel like there’s a lot more similarities than differences. [00:04:34,042] Don’t you feel that way? [00:04:35,170] Yeah, yeah, I feel like for basically the same country, know, and so maybe a little bit lately, but. [00:04:41,086] Right. [00:04:41,908] Yeah, that’s Cool. [00:04:44,271] Well, other than tariffs, maybe give us a rundown so people that haven’t been keeping up or maybe they’re new to you guys, talk about your main product and how you guys are kind [00:04:54,396] of different than other things that are out there. [00:04:57,132] Yeah, so for people that don’t know or haven’t heard about it or new listeners, basically we’re back country skins. [00:05:04,788] We dedicated uh our brand to pain points in the waiting industry, kind of filling that bridging that gap in between dry pants and um like our traditional wet waiting gear and [00:05:17,457] waiters basically. [00:05:19,202] So we were like back country brothers, two of us run it and we were just always in the back country and we felt that [00:05:25,428] know, waiters were just kind of too bulky and thick for a lot of putting on the miles. [00:05:30,020] uh traditional dry pants were kind of making us cold. [00:05:34,642] Our legs were getting torn up and stuff. [00:05:37,003] we just decided to build and dedicate this brand during COVID to leggings, uh which is our flagship, our Z series or Air Blitz pants, which is a pair of neoprene breathable leggings [00:05:48,988] that kind of bridge the gap, keep your legs warm, regulated in the water, you know, and [00:05:53,762] keeps you mobile, nimble. [00:05:56,166] that’s kind of we just dedicated our whole brand to that. [00:05:59,111] And I think last time we were kind of just a startup since we talked, but now I think we’re becoming a legitimate brand. Page 4 [00:06:09,247] What has that been like going from a startup where when we talked a couple years ago you guys were obviously a newer brand and now what’s the difference how does it feel now where [00:06:18,590] you’re sitting compared to say two years ago? [00:06:20,696] Yeah, it’s crazy. [00:06:21,557] Ever since we started, never really know. [00:06:23,288] And when you’re starting up and the risks you take, and there’s so many like obstacles and you learn as you go if you’ve never really done it. [00:06:32,916] it’s yeah, I would say that we’ve doubled every year since uh in revenue, ever since we started this thing. [00:06:40,822] And I guess it’s just the markets responded like insanely. [00:06:46,647] guess people are really just kind of also think the same way. [00:06:50,646] we do with just during spring to fall, we’re in waiters just start doing it. [00:06:57,271] So there’s a nice alternative out there, a more affordable option that can get people through the, from spring to fall. [00:07:04,896] So, but yeah, it’s been crazy. [00:07:07,678] We’re Bitcoin kind of like worldwide now. [00:07:10,821] We have retailers, like we’ve accepted retailers in the States, New Zealand, UK, Germany. [00:07:18,668] all around the world basically. [00:07:20,100] So it’s just cool to watch it all kind of work as we work on it every day. [00:07:26,326] Yeah, definitely. [00:07:26,877] Have you had any, because it seems like, you know, you look at products that you have, you have a new product that’s doing well out there. [00:07:32,966] And then also there’ll be somebody doing the same thing or kind of the copy cat sort of thing. [00:07:37,914] Has that happened out there or are you guys kind of just doing your own thing? [00:07:42,594] Yeah, that’s the cool thing actually that’s kind of happening right now actually is we got a sales rep actually in the States and he’s been walking into certain retailers and with [00:07:53,894] our product and saying that, uh you know, some of the other big brands have seen prototypes and stuff like that. Page 5 [00:07:58,897] So we’re just excited to actually hear that, that, you know, just two brothers in their garage is basically just coming up with this innovative product. [00:08:07,696] And now these big brands are having prototypes and even [00:08:10,818] thinking about circling around it, which I think is just a great thing. [00:08:13,987] It’s kind of like a, I don’t know. [00:08:17,132] Right. [00:08:17,485] So that’s not a bad thing. [00:08:18,422] That’s not a bad thing necessarily. [00:08:20,462] Oh, I think it’ll make the market bigger, if anything. [00:08:23,122] You know what I mean? [00:08:23,942] And were the originals if it does happen and just makes us excited and proud kind of, you know, that we found this little gap or pain point in the industry and it’s helping people [00:08:36,322] and it’s taking notice with some of the big brands and people are just getting behind it. [00:08:41,282] So I guess just two brothers, you know, in their garage just with designing apps and stuff, making this all come. [00:08:47,842] come to life and then hearing that from our sales rep from two other big brands, he’s going into these retailers and like, yeah, they’re getting those or we’re seeing [00:08:55,129] prototypes. [00:08:56,530] So it’s just like a whole like David versus Goliath story, I guess. [00:09:00,690] Yeah, yeah, definitely. [00:09:02,042] That’s amazing. [00:09:03,834] That’s a good way to look at it though, right? [00:09:05,355] mean, that’s an awesome way because you’re not worried about, I kind of feel the same way, you know, like competition or like you say, it’s validating your idea, but you’re not [00:09:14,124] worried about somebody coming in and taking over and being like, okay, they’re going to buy your product, their product instead of yours, right? [00:09:19,340] You’re just thinking like there’s enough room for everybody to bring it, come in with a similar product. [00:09:23,962] 100%. Page 6 [00:09:24,762] Like I like having a little the drama in the marketing and stuff like that, just to add a little spice. [00:09:29,904] But at the end of the day, if they do end up making it and I think, like I said, brings a bigger market to the whole concept. [00:09:36,906] And and yeah, it’s just it’s flattering, like I said. [00:09:40,927] So if that does happen, which we are seeing some stuff and but yeah, like leggings are have their place in the industry clearly. [00:09:49,099] So we’re going to keep plugging, plugging away. [00:09:52,046] That’s awesome. [00:09:52,476] Well, I love, mean, I’m definitely a wet waiter, you know, for sure. [00:09:55,808] think, you know, who isn’t, if you’re in the summertime, it’s hot, you know, 90 degrees, 100 degrees out. [00:10:01,291] But I usually wear kind of the light, you know, pants, right? [00:10:03,933] That’s the thing I have. [00:10:04,793] But talk about that, the difference between the light pants versus say your neoprene. [00:10:09,176] What is the biggest difference? [00:10:10,536] Is it kind of warmth, protection? [00:10:12,858] You know, why would those, why should I be wearing those, say over those light kind of whatever, you know, the, they call those pants? [00:10:20,434] I basically said it. [00:10:22,465] just think first is the look in the industry. [00:10:25,166] think that it just takes time for people to like when they hop on the river. [00:10:28,418] It’s just been, you know, dry pants and waiters for so long and someone shows up in skins and they’re just like, huh, you know what I mean? [00:10:34,770] They’re either like, this is cool. [00:10:36,111] Like, what is that? [00:10:36,981] Or they’re like, that’s, know, what is that? [00:10:39,212] Like silly or whatever. [00:10:40,843] So I think the look is uh the first thing that comes to mind. [00:10:45,295] But as in like functionality. Page 7 [00:10:47,702] I would say that wearing a thin pair of neoprene leggings, such as our Airblitz, which actually have perforated spots in like the buttocks and the crotch region, our newest pant [00:10:56,790] that’s breathable, it’s going to give you protection that traditional wet waiting gear won’t give you, you know, between bugs and shrub. [00:11:04,276] All right. [00:11:04,877] And then regulating your legs in the water, like if it’s cold water, and even if you’re getting a little too warm, if you just dip your legs in the water, you’re just cool again. [00:11:13,194] And then just having that mobility. [00:11:15,544] You know, like regular traditional, when we wore them, wet wading pants. [00:11:19,579] Like they’re just, you know, cold. [00:11:22,222] They’re a little bit flimsy, not as aerodynamic in the water when you’re cutting through river banks or crossing the river. [00:11:29,686] Right. [00:11:30,167] How durable these are, if you run into some really like hard brambles, let’s say some blackberries, do they stand up pretty well? [00:11:37,358] Yeah, they hold up pretty good. [00:11:39,178] the sweet thing with neoprene is like, we’re going to start selling these little patches and stuff like that too. [00:11:43,378] Cause sometimes they do, you know, puncture and stuff like that. [00:11:46,338] Just, just like our tarix and their jackets, know, Like they have that patches they’re doing and, kind of making it trendy. [00:11:53,437] The more patches you got. [00:11:54,752] Yeah, totally. [00:11:55,363] And puncturing isn’t that big of deal for these, right? [00:11:58,000] Because this is like a wetsuit, essentially. [00:11:59,914] Same thing. [00:12:00,255] You want the water to kind of come in. [00:12:02,000] Is that the idea? [00:12:03,001] Yeah. Page 8 [00:12:03,502] got it. [00:12:04,523] even if it is a hole, it’s not really going to affect it. [00:12:06,722] It’s not like waiters where your, your day’s ruined and you’re punctured and you’re going to fill up your waiters and you know, you’re going to have to go find a patch and then [00:12:13,882] battle that. [00:12:14,412] Like it’s still regulated and your legs are still going. [00:12:17,175] It’s just giving you that extra protection. [00:12:18,977] Like definitely warmth. [00:12:20,834] Yeah. [00:12:21,475] And how do you do the sizes when, and I’m, you know, you got big guys, small guys, you know, how does that work? [00:12:28,007] that, has that been a challenge for you? [00:12:29,440] Like people buying these say that aren’t the perfect deal, whatever that normal size is. [00:12:33,497] Yeah. [00:12:34,008] Yeah, that’s the thing where we can continuously innovating in this sizing from the start. [00:12:38,842] When we started up, we only had a budget and now we’re ranging into the double XLs, extra small. [00:12:45,372] So now our ranges are becoming way better. [00:12:47,489] Obviously with leggings, they’re a more tighter snug fit. [00:12:50,271] So that has been, uh I guess, a pain point for us in order to uh just keep getting the sizing right and perfecting it. [00:12:59,118] Yeah, right, cool, nice. [00:13:01,520] And then also the booties, that’s other thing. [00:13:03,200] So I wear lots of booties. [00:13:05,062] That’s actually probably what I’m wearing more. [00:13:06,663] I’m wearing just the shorts with the booties, you know, and that works great. [00:13:10,855] You’re kind of just waiting, but again, it comes down to that. [00:13:13,507] Especially in your place where the water’s super cold, you know, it’s probably Page 9 gonna be nice having the neoprens on. [00:13:19,956] for sure. [00:13:20,406] Yeah. [00:13:20,687] Like some people don’t even like wet waiting. [00:13:22,958] You know what I mean? [00:13:23,558] They’re like, like it’s all depends on like basically your preference or what type of what type of angler you are. [00:13:29,606] If you’re like more of a backcountry floating pack rafting angler, uh lots of guys even on drift boats and stuff wear skins. [00:13:36,395] But, you know, or if you run hotter on coal, that all depends on really your preference. [00:13:41,508] But for skins, if you’re a backcountry guy and you love just, you know, put it on the miles on the banks. [00:13:48,091] So I think it’s the [00:13:49,442] The go to your legs are always going to be warm, protected, regulated. [00:13:54,626] That’s it. [00:13:55,266] And then you’re in versus, and then you’re not wearing the full waders, which in the summertime, even Gore-Tex waders, right? [00:14:01,870] If it’s super hot is going to not be super comfortable out there. [00:14:05,072] Right. [00:14:05,312] And that’s interesting. [00:14:06,322] think it’s kind of cool because I remember I’m old enough to remember before Gore-Tex when, you know, neoprene waders was what it was. [00:14:14,437] You know what I mean? [00:14:15,057] Like those, the red balls, I remember back in the day, I think they were red balls, whatever they were. [00:14:20,070] But you know, everybody had neoprene waders and they were tight and they were, uh [00:14:24,512] Super hot like definitely didn’t wear those when it was in the summer, but they were nice too for the winter, you know, in the winter time and those neoprene waders, you floated [00:14:31,892] well in them. Page 10 [00:14:32,623] They were warm. [00:14:33,895] What is it about neoprene? [00:14:35,136] What, know, why did you guys, is this the only material that you could kind of use for your product? [00:14:39,918] That’s a good question. [00:14:41,318] It just works like just like the booties like you said even just with shorts guys just like wearing them for that extra protection or warmth on your feet. [00:14:48,726] It’s just like your full legs covered and we just keep innovating and like materials like air pre and stuff and like yeah like and making it cooler or even warmer but it’s funny [00:14:59,065] that you even said that actually guys wear them underneath their waders in the winter to get that extra like you know layer of warmth like steel headers and stuff like that. [00:15:07,676] really so so people put these on underneath the Gore-Tex waders. [00:15:10,689] Yeah they do. [00:15:11,920] wow so that’s good to do so you’re not gonna this isn’t gonna be so hot that you’re sweating this this is good to do for the winter that could be instead of putting another [00:15:18,366] layer of fleece you could do this. [00:15:20,078] Yeah [00:15:20,614] lots of people are doing it against their they were getting lots of reviews where they’re saying they’re with their buddies and they have their skins underneath their waders and [00:15:28,316] they’re staying in longer in the water. [00:15:30,177] If your legs are planted, which steel steel headers and most people are in the winter for longer, they’re like friends are getting out. [00:15:36,568] They’re like, yeah, we stayed in like an extra hour. [00:15:39,599] So it’s a pretty versatile product for sure. [00:15:44,521] Just like you said, the neoprene waders back in the day, I remember actually seeing those. [00:15:50,270] rather than rather than the gore attacks but yeah so [00:15:53,944] Yeah, that’s good. [00:15:54,926] and what about maybe what’s as you look ahead here, you guys got some momentum going. Page 11 [00:15:59,844] Are you thinking other products? [00:16:01,708] What’s, you know, what is it say in the next year or so? [00:16:04,492] What are you guys going to be doing? [00:16:05,900] Yeah, so we came out actually with a sock called the liquid lock sock, which is a neoprene waterproof sock that goes under or goes up to your knees and it has a, like a, a gasket on [00:16:16,784] the inside. [00:16:17,315] So when you actually put them underneath your skins, like your leggings, they actually does like a pretty good seal to kind of push, uh, push our skins concept to skin diehards [00:16:27,894] a little bit further in the fall or earlier spring, which kind of makes a waterproof berg for like quick water crossings coming in and out of the water. [00:16:36,102] It’s another innovative product that no one’s selling right now in the industry. [00:16:40,696] So it’s just kind of like, you know, getting that mobility still. [00:16:44,369] So that was kind of one of our new products. [00:16:47,832] And then we just came out with the Air Blitz Panlick I was just mentioning, which is we actually started perforating the neoprene in like some of the warmer areas of the body. [00:16:56,198] And then just for a tease, we were also, like I said, we’re in the UV industry for like saltwater fishing and leggings for years have always been. [00:17:05,282] you know, a huge pick from like sports brands. [00:17:07,523] now we dedicated a fishing brand towards it, which is obviously skins. [00:17:11,864] But yeah, it’s actually a UV parent that actually has perforations in the whole pant as well. [00:17:17,985] So it’s like you’re just getting the sun protection, but you’re just like, you’re not even wearing leggings like the how it’s going. [00:17:23,617] Your legs. [00:17:24,097] Yeah, like we’re super excited to get this material to the public kind of just like, you know, get that sun protection because you want the lighter. [00:17:31,719] You want to make it as light as possible when you’re out there on the salt. [00:17:35,000] It’s not really about protection, more or less it’s more about just completely protecting your legs from the sun. Page 12 [00:17:40,116] So we got a new innovative material coming out hopefully here in the next couple of months. [00:17:47,160] This year, I ventured into the heart of Eastern Idaho’s Yellowstone-Teton territory where the fish were larger than life and the waters held the secrets of the best fly fishing out [00:17:56,233] west. [00:17:57,153] With crystal clear rivers like the Henry’s Fork and the South Fork of the Snake and enough lakes to keep you going all year long, make your way to Yellowstone-Teton territory and [00:18:06,065] embark on a journey to one of North America’s finest fly fishing destinations. [00:18:10,637] It’s time to experience Eastern Idaho for yourself and support this podcast at the same time. [00:18:16,460] Discover Smitty’s Fly Box for premium flies. [00:18:19,152] Their monthly subscription service delivers expertly crafted flies and materials tailored to your fishing environment. [00:18:25,497] Boasting over 30 years of experience, Smitty’s is your trusted source for a diverse range of flies. [00:18:31,152] Enhance your fishing experience and make life easier with their carefully created selections. [00:18:36,206] You can subscribe right now at smittyflybox.com and join a community of passionate anglers. [00:18:44,342] And what is the millimeter, the thickness of your typical backcountry skins leggings? [00:18:50,444] Yeah, they’re 1.5. [00:18:54,277] But when we first actually came out with the concept, our original one was two millimeter, but we thought it was a little too hot. [00:19:00,141] But a lot of people we got reviews like, you guys asked the two millimeter like we love that having that extra, you know, thickness and and warmth. [00:19:08,688] So yeah, I just think that, yeah, we might come back out with a more like do a couple different thicknesses just to tailor to the whole. [00:19:17,580] the whole thing. [00:19:18,271] So to everyone who’s like, you know, runs a cold air just loves wearing them. [00:19:22,068] I’ve seen guys in the winter wearing like they’re like, dude, I’m still wearing Page 13 these like, like even getting a little wet. [00:19:29,602] I’m like, this is crazy. [00:19:30,670] But yeah, that’s it. [00:19:31,732] God. [00:19:32,001] That’s great. [00:19:32,263] And then the the ones for more of the saltwater are those even thinner than the 1.5? [00:19:37,118] they’re not even neoprene. [00:19:38,218] It’s just complete. [00:19:39,238] It’s completely polyester or like, you know what I mean? [00:19:42,598] In spandex. [00:19:45,198] It’s it’s like, you know, a mixture, a blend between both. [00:19:49,818] then now we have these little like it’s not see through completely, but it’s just these little micro holes on the UV material that is like insane. [00:19:59,018] Barely feels like you’re wearing like you can feel the wind on your legs, but your son’s getting protected. [00:20:02,698] Like it’s never been. [00:20:03,678] I don’t even think I’ve even seen it done with other. [00:20:06,478] like sport brands. [00:20:09,218] You know what I mean? [00:20:10,318] So we’re excited about that one coming out here. [00:20:13,966] That’s it, okay, yeah, and the 1.5 millimeter, I remember going back again to the Waiters, they had two main that I remember the Waiters were, they had the three millimeter and then [00:20:24,026] the fives. [00:20:24,806] And the three millimeters were pretty thin, they felt pretty good. [00:20:27,726] You went up to the fives, you were like putting on a thick pair of like super duper winter, right? [00:20:32,266] So that’s a lot, right? [00:20:33,126] The one millimeter is quite a bit difference. Page 14 [00:20:35,628] yeah, the one million. [00:20:36,540] I think if you were like what you said we’re in five millimeter your legs would be getting a quadricep workout every… [00:20:41,150] ha! [00:20:42,292] Logging through the f- [00:20:43,718] were extreme. [00:20:44,358] trying. [00:20:44,518] God, I wish I could remember the name of this way, the brand. [00:20:46,818] was, I can’t, I don’t even think they’re around anymore, but anyways, so. [00:20:51,118] Okay, so that’s a good rundown on the gear. [00:20:53,318] We’ll probably talk more as we go about this. [00:20:55,178] I wanted to also get an update on, you know, kind of where you’re at, the fishing. [00:20:58,838] I think you’re in a, obviously a super popular area for fishing, you know, Calgary and all that. [00:21:04,538] Talk about that a little bit in your. [00:21:06,286] I mean, do you get around, do you fish all over your province up there in Alberta or, you know, how does that look? [00:21:12,582] Are you stick closer to home typically? [00:21:14,674] Yeah. [00:21:15,098] I actually moved from Calgary into a town called Invermere BC. [00:21:20,963] So I actually live in BC. [00:21:23,184] My brother’s still in BC now. [00:21:26,076] It’s just always been a dream of mine. [00:21:29,469] It’s just easier for marketing and videos and just generally fishing. [00:21:34,993] Alberta’s good and has its prizes, but BC is definitely just a whole different beast. [00:21:42,431] Right, right, So BC has the, it’s not just, mean, Calgary’s kind of known, what is the big difference? [00:21:47,238] Because Calgary has some good fishing too, right? Page 15 [00:21:49,291] It’s got the Bow River, it’s got all that, but what is the big difference, say Alberta versus BC? [00:21:54,774] like BC or like Alberta’s they’re so unique in their own ways. [00:21:59,396] Like you said, the Bow River is like a huge world renowned blue ribbon fishery. [00:22:04,298] you know, Banff is huge for a backcountry angler, Alpine lakes, cutty fishing, Bolchow rivers as well. [00:22:11,331] Like if you get into Banff or Jasper National Park, those are just beautiful places that are kind of hidden gems that you won’t see. [00:22:18,214] You’ll be the only one out there on the water. [00:22:20,565] But BC is kind of more like [00:22:23,116] I don’t know, the fish are more plentiful, more enriched land. [00:22:26,458] It’s the same. [00:22:27,479] Like you’re going to be most likely the probably the only person if you go a little far enough or do a little extra hiking or, or whatnot, uh, you’re going to be the only one out [00:22:36,385] there. [00:22:36,645] And the thing about Alberta is the, Rockies, like, are just, you can’t replace them in Banff and Jasper. [00:22:42,990] Like the, the ambiance of like the mountains and the blue water, like the Rockies, like BC has their mountains, but, uh, it’s kind of more like grass. [00:22:51,874] you greener little smaller mountains and where I go fishing. [00:22:56,316] Still wild, super wild, like the rivers are bigger, faster, more fish. [00:23:01,678] But the Rockies for Alberta I would say that’s a huge pro for the scenery when you’re looking around is like just nothing even compares to it. [00:23:09,741] But BCI just bought a jet boat actually. [00:23:12,443] wow. [00:23:12,926] Yeah. [00:23:13,518] You’re going. [00:23:14,287] we’re now, what’s the name of the town again you’re at? [00:23:16,588] It’s in Invermere, in the Columbia Valley. [00:23:18,732] I-N-V-E-R-M-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-RPage 16 E-R-E-R-E- [00:23:23,370] yeah, in Inver-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den-Den- Den-Den-Den-Den-Den- [00:23:30,786] Yeah, I’m just across just in the Columbia Valley, which is actually in the headwaters of the Columbia Lake, which Columbia Lake. [00:23:38,740] you’re in the headwaters of the Columbia River, is, this is pretty sweet. [00:23:43,227] Again, it’s funny because we’re so far away, not really that far because I literally drive up this, I see the Columbia every day. [00:23:50,708] You know, it’s like. [00:23:51,509] uh [00:23:52,253] cool, it goes right in the ocean near you, isn’t it? [00:23:54,689] yeah, exactly. [00:23:56,344] could drive north right now about an hour and I would see it flowing into the ocean. [00:24:00,982] Yeah, like I guess back I was reading like going down these rabbit holes in the history before the dams were made and I the salmon would come all the way up to Enver here in the [00:24:11,240] headwaters. [00:24:12,112] Like that is so cool, like crazy. [00:24:14,488] It’s one of the big bummers of the Columbia, know, because it’s got all these giant dams, which are good for hydroelectric, a lot of other things. [00:24:21,221] But yeah, there’s one there. [00:24:22,822] can’t remember what it’s the big one that just blocked everything. [00:24:25,273] There’s no fish ladder. [00:24:28,365] Yeah. [00:24:29,345] So basically no steelhead, no salmon, but you still have lots of range for, guess, probably a lot of those rainbows and fish that were steelhead now are just big giant [00:24:38,089] rainbows growing in the Columbia, right. [00:24:39,730] And those. [00:24:40,591] Talk about that. [00:24:41,262] What’s your fishing when you think about where you are now in this place? Page 17 [00:24:43,790] Have you explored everything? [00:24:45,906] What’s getting you excited about that area? [00:24:47,916] I’m excited. [00:24:48,767] Like I got this little inflatable jet boat and I just got here in March. [00:24:54,010] So there’s just so much to explore. [00:24:57,332] I just started kind of getting my feet wet like with the Columbia River system and obviously the Kootenay runs parallel with it, but I don’t think it actually attaches, [00:25:06,558] which is another just great fishery. [00:25:09,100] Mostly I’m chasing, like I said, always char like bull trellis. [00:25:13,190] are. [00:25:13,644] Yeah, like there’s kokanee salmon, um big rainbows up here, like big cutties, lots of like tons of alpine lakes that have lots of history with great fishing. [00:25:24,179] And I’m just looking to get my feet wet this fall when the bull trout come down, which I think is actually early because it’s been rainy, super rainy here. [00:25:32,382] So I think they went up early. [00:25:34,083] But uh this fall is always the most exciting time when the kokanee start going up and the bulls are done, they’re spawned and they’re coming down. [00:25:41,096] It’s just like a [00:25:42,104] They meet for this great clash of eating them and then you get some red streamers out, pull them out, get the jet boat, go up some of these tributaries, like 5, 10K, and it’s [00:25:53,336] just like every cast you’re getting like a massive bull trout. [00:25:56,219] Yeah, it’s just hot. [00:25:57,543] wow. [00:25:58,004] So what’s going on? [00:25:58,725] So tell us a bit again about the bull trout life history. [00:26:01,029] they’re right now as we speak, you know, it’s September. [00:26:05,336] So when are they spawning? [00:26:07,096] So yeah, September is when they, so it basically will give you the rundown so people know when they’re chasing them. [00:26:12,069] Cause you get so many, we also get tons of questions with them. Page 18 [00:26:15,591] We’re both bull trout. [00:26:16,461] People are just getting more and more interested with them. [00:26:18,482] But basically in the, in the spring, they, when runoffs over, they run up, start making their big journey in all the tributaries, the migratory ones. [00:26:28,458] Obviously there’s residential bull trout that just live in the rivers until they’re big enough or whatever. [00:26:33,251] But the bulls just start, you know, [00:26:35,670] staging at the mouths of these tributaries in June around. [00:26:40,514] And then they start making their journey up. [00:26:43,676] And we try and fish for them too, if you can time it right, it’s just really good. [00:26:47,069] You’re going to see, and they’re really predatory and they’re taking big streamers early spring. [00:26:52,364] then there’s that from June to end of August, they’re working their way in those tributaries, which you can chase them everywhere in those trips, which is super fun. [00:27:01,250] They’re separated, but they’re paired up, working their way up. [00:27:05,632] And then everything kind of closes in September 1st, which is good for their spawn. [00:27:10,705] And then they spawn for like basically the month. [00:27:13,827] And then usually around the end of September to October, they start once they’re done in the water levels lower, they start working their way back down to the main watersheds and [00:27:23,302] the lakes. [00:27:23,833] ah Which is just, like I said, the coconut you’re going up like in stacks. [00:27:27,922] it’s just like eating on them like crazy. [00:27:30,787] And they’re pretty big. [00:27:31,637] Like they’re these bulls are. [00:27:33,378] You know, they’re huge and they’re coming at your feet and just inhaling streamers. [00:27:38,484] So it’s just a, it’s it’s a great thing. [00:27:41,117] got a lot of people, I don’t think chase them or know about them, but it’s kind of like a whole little lifestyle backcountry thing. Page 19 [00:27:48,035] Probably similar to steel had a lot of it. [00:27:49,927] don’t know. [00:27:50,337] Yeah. [00:27:50,738] You know what I [00:27:51,304] Yeah, similar to Steelhead, right? [00:27:52,505] Because the Steelhead are spawning or they’re the spawn timing is different spring versus fall Yeah, they’re doing the same thing and there’s a mix of resident fish that don’t go [00:28:00,871] out But the cool thing is the streamers I think that Steelhead aren’t really known when they come up as eating, know, lots of fish They’re kind of hanging but bull trout are bull [00:28:09,877] trout are feeding all the time. [00:28:11,118] They’re trying to get big like they don’t stop eating [00:28:13,870] Yeah, like Steelhead, I mean, like the pattern kind of going up in the tributaries, the whole ambience of the mountains, and it’s kind of probably a similar feel. [00:28:21,350] yeah, when nothing compares to like this big mountain char that just inhales these big streamers at like 12 inches at your feet, like that we tie. [00:28:31,150] it’s just like, it’s so yeah, I just that’s why I’m obsessed with them. [00:28:36,170] It’s just and they’re only out here, you know, it’s kind of probably like Tame and back in Russia or something. [00:28:41,136] they’re only out so you can only find these like migratory big fish in this range. [00:28:46,562] Well, from us probably to, er, from you to us, [00:28:49,996] Yeah, that’s the range. [00:28:51,106] There’s not really down here. [00:28:52,527] There’s not, you know, I think they’ve been pretty hammered by environmental degradation. [00:28:57,557] You know what mean? [00:28:58,058] They’re like, yeah, because lots of people have, I mean, I think a lot of people think of bull trout in the history. [00:29:02,970] This is just one of the sad stories is like they kill the other fish that people like to eat, right? Page 20 [00:29:07,621] They kill the salmon. [00:29:08,441] So like, all right, let’s kill this bull trout. [00:29:10,532] And then it’s such a tough one, right? [00:29:12,832] Because now we’re struggling. [00:29:14,553] And so I don’t think, I’m not sure how far you have to go up to really find really healthy populations. [00:29:19,960] Probably in Washington somewhere, more remote areas, I’m sure. [00:29:23,170] Yeah, like it, like you said, hear that story. [00:29:25,432] It’s insane to me. [00:29:26,352] Like people just would catch them because like a lot of trophy fishing just for generations is just, you know, they want that dry fly take or cutties and because it’s [00:29:35,189] just the bees knees, right? [00:29:36,670] Like the dry fly cutties and the colorful things. [00:29:39,552] And then they would just catch them and throw them on the bank. [00:29:42,064] This is back in the day. [00:29:43,966] But now, like they’re becoming protected, like they’re so plentiful here. [00:29:48,339] You can even keep one like legally. [00:29:50,282] I [00:29:50,626] Yeah, like this like salmon out here. [00:29:52,487] Basically, I think that’s when the population probably still is pretty, pretty good. [00:29:57,549] But I definitely know that they’re protected in Montana and Oregon. [00:30:00,770] Like you can’t even target them at all. [00:30:03,331] Even same in Alberta, like some places are just minimal. [00:30:06,892] But when you get into BC is such wild and big waters are the whole thing still in full action. [00:30:13,535] So but they’re they’re rebounding, which is which is awesome. [00:30:17,177] You know, handling them is such a [00:30:20,178] important thing like putting them back, keeping them in the water, you know, having the right rod to make sure that you’re not fighting them too long and everything like Page 21 that. [00:30:30,124] What is the, if somebody was thinking about heading up there, where do they start as far as the fishing? [00:30:35,623] guess you were kind of in a new area, but em are these mostly finding them around lakes higher up or where would somebody start there? [00:30:43,477] Yeah. [00:30:43,918] I said, it all depends, the timing’s everything with Bull Show, which makes it fun. [00:30:47,738] Like it makes it like a, you know, like a, you just gotta go like searching the words Waldo kind of, is awesome. [00:30:54,238] Like it keeps you interested in always mapping, like, okay, we’re like the water levels are this, like, I think they’re going to be here. [00:31:01,218] They’re going to be in the mid sections, but you can chase them basically from, you know, the start of spring, um, in the lakes all the way. [00:31:08,118] And then as the season goes on, just keep following them up the rivers. [00:31:12,066] but there’s some guides in Fernie. [00:31:15,791] There’s some guiding companies that are like in Fernie and in Golden that you can contact to actually go experience the whole thing. [00:31:26,225] uh [00:31:27,160] Yeah, that’d be a good place to start. [00:31:28,814] What is it for you guys? [00:31:29,665] So you’re tying, are you trying to tie just the biggest stuff you can to see what you can catch them on or talk about your patterns you’re tying there? [00:31:36,469] Yeah. [00:31:37,122] Yeah, that’s basically bullshited. [00:31:38,773] I just call them like a, you know, a mountain pike. [00:31:41,266] Like they just take the biggest streamers and we just tie like, you know, big dollies and uh sex dungeons just as big as you can get them. [00:31:51,925] Like a lot of them in the stores, they’re still good. [00:31:55,038] Like uh streamers you can buy, but the bigger you make them, it’s more about profile than actual, you know, colors or, you know, anything like that. [00:32:04,005] But uh Page 22 [00:32:05,634] Yeah, I would just say it’s more about profile the biggest. [00:32:09,838] We even use Pike streamers sometimes if we don’t have time to tie. [00:32:14,722] Or even tarpon ones. [00:32:15,863] I’ve caught uh one earlier this season. [00:32:18,205] I had a tarpon fly in my pocket from a trip and I used it and it worked. [00:32:23,490] Wow. [00:32:24,152] Yeah. [00:32:24,512] So just the big, whatever you want to throw on there, what is the typical rod you’re fishing and how big or what’s the size on the fish? [00:32:30,949] Yeah. [00:32:31,490] definitely like that’s important. [00:32:33,330] I think a seven weight to even a 10 weight. [00:32:37,270] Some of these bowls will bring you like, they’ll fight them for like, you know, if you don’t have the right equipment in a long time, they’re strong, you know, so yeah, would [00:32:45,850] say seven to 10 weight probably. [00:32:51,470] coverage out here is like 30 inches. [00:32:53,582] Overall you’re averaging a 30 inch so these are like I’m talking 10 pound range or somewhere in there. [00:32:58,842] Yeah [00:33:05,262] I always think with steelhead, I always think with steelhead 30 inches roughly is going to be a 10 pound fish. [00:33:10,262] Yeah, you got it. [00:33:11,102] If it’s above that, then you’re really. [00:33:12,962] So do you find like what’s the biggest bull trout? [00:33:15,442] I don’t even know what the record is or what you’ve heard of out there. [00:33:18,534] I’m going to say it’s going to be 40 inches. [00:33:22,594] 30. [00:33:23,434] I’ve caught a 30, I think it was a 36 inch is my biggest bull trout. [00:33:28,663] And it was like scary when it came to my feet and I saw it. [00:33:31,685] I’m like that thing. Page 23 [00:33:32,942] But it had like a big fat like girthy stung. [00:33:35,630] Yeah, just stomach and jaw like on the you know, they’re like this thing is the king down here for sure. [00:33:41,094] I would not want to meet this this bullshroat underwater if I was a cuddy for sure. [00:33:47,267] Cool. [00:33:47,778] Wow. [00:33:48,109] So you got the bolt rod going and what else when you look at the lake you’re near? [00:33:52,891] it Columbia Lake? [00:33:53,743] Is that the lake? [00:33:54,904] Yeah, Columbia Lake and then Columbia River system. [00:33:57,896] we were talked about and then the Kootenai River. [00:34:01,319] Yeah, the Kootenai is huge too. [00:34:03,274] you know what I mean? [00:34:04,031] So. [00:34:04,332] Kind of rates smack in the middle of it now. [00:34:08,505] So I always came out here anyways, but just to be here to like, you know, this is my starting point now to start exploring. [00:34:15,631] And it’s just huge for the brand for like marketing and then. [00:34:19,685] yeah. [00:34:20,160] I can just walk out my door if we get some new products and grab my brother and we can go out and yeah, like go talk about what we’re doing. [00:34:28,908] Yeah, are you guys filming? [00:34:30,343] you doing all the do you have all the video equipment or how do you do? [00:34:33,293] does that look? [00:34:34,197] Yeah. [00:34:34,822] yeah, we, uh, we do it all, man. [00:34:36,634] It’s just my brother and I so far, obviously we have, like I said, some sales reps and we have, um, some guys that help us with, uh, with our website and stuff. Page 24 [00:34:44,140] But overall, it’s just my brother and I, and we’re just getting creative not only with the gear, but with our, marketing. [00:34:49,635] That’s unique. [00:34:50,425] feel in the industry, you know, trying to get younger guys into, into fly fishing and grow the sport. [00:34:57,322] And if they’re cool, you know, catch their eyes, if they’re like, you know, watching videos or if it’s YouTube. [00:35:03,134] or social media to try and throw some spice at it. [00:35:09,304] When it comes to premium flies that deliver results, Drifthook.com is the name to trust this season. [00:35:15,378] Whether you’re chasing trout with dry flies, swinging streamers, or dialing in those Euro nymphs, they’ve got everything you need. [00:35:21,662] Here’s a quick story. [00:35:22,863] I was fishing a tricky spring creek earlier this year and nothing was working. [00:35:27,146] Then I pulled out a Royal Wolf from the Drifthook box. [00:35:29,668] I cast upstream, letting it drift effortlessly toward a holding fish. [00:35:33,711] It was textbook. [00:35:34,891] One of the biggest fish in the run rose, sipped the fly, and the fight was on. [00:35:39,596] That’s definitely a moment I’ll never forget. [00:35:41,628] Their fly kits ship free straight to your door, fully stocked and ready for action. [00:35:45,452] You can support a great small business right now in this podcast by heading over to Drifthook.com today. [00:35:50,978] That’s Drifthook, D-R-I-F-T-H-O-O-K. [00:35:54,922] Use the code SWING at checkout to get 15 % off your first order. [00:36:01,272] What’s been your, that’s always, you know, can be a struggle. [00:36:04,108] What’s been stuff that’s been working well on the marketing end for you guys, or how have you guys been finding new, the younger, younger crowd? [00:36:11,170] Yeah, I think just more kids these days are so like, you know, even everyone’s just so addicted to their phone and so, uh, you know, stimulated. [00:36:19,810] I guess like just trying to make some quicker edits so they get the information in there as quick as possible as a good key to all, think. Page 25 [00:36:27,730] But, you know, but also long form content is huge, but just kind of like the whole, you know, like with leggings, it kind of makes it like fishing’s like, it makes it like a kind [00:36:37,798] of more stylish and more like an act of angler. [00:36:40,926] adventure look, you know, that’s what we’re going for. [00:36:43,698] Like adventure, angler, putting on the miles. [00:36:45,649] It’s not just going down, you know, from your truck, walk into there, you know, big pair of khakis on or big. [00:36:52,176] Big with the tweet hat and all the smoking jacket. [00:36:55,470] uh [00:36:57,296] a cigar and like, listen to some old, know, Johnny Cash, which is all cool. [00:37:01,558] respect all that too. [00:37:02,639] You know what I mean? [00:37:03,299] Like that’s like, that’s our roots. [00:37:05,480] You know what I mean? [00:37:06,291] It’s just, you know, everything always innovative and stuff. [00:37:09,622] just a whole different act of, you know, back country, you know, like, you know, deep in it, putting on the miles. [00:37:16,045] It’s a good workout, getting lost, taking a break from, you know, not, we use the platforms to [00:37:22,286] to the information out, but it’s to get outside and start making your own adventures and putting the miles on. [00:37:27,106] And, you don’t need that much money if you, you know, if you’re an Angler from spring to fall, if you’re going to pair of skins, it’s going to get you through like, to like, [00:37:35,546] you’re going to be thick and warm and protected. [00:37:37,866] So it’s like, you know, like just kind of whole selling it that way, like the Angler back country. [00:37:43,786] And that’s unique. [00:37:44,546] I think, um, that’s a lot of a lot, most people, you know, which [00:37:48,822] We still try to target as just drift boats, you know, drift boat that market, but we want to grow the industry and just make it a whole new, you know, get out. Page 26 [00:37:57,772] Like there’s, there’s more to explore out there. [00:37:59,593] There’s more fish if you don’t go, which, which we do market too. [00:38:03,127] Cause these are great. [00:38:04,008] Like drift boat guys live by our stuff, obviously too, like getting in and out of the water and guides, but, uh, but yeah, just a different spin. [00:38:11,478] Yeah, I can see that. [00:38:12,919] I can see both. [00:38:13,759] um I’m right in the middle of both because I have a drift boat. [00:38:18,542] again, I can see I wear the pants a lot of the time. [00:38:21,864] So having the leggings would be the same sort of thing, but probably warmer. [00:38:26,387] But also the adventure stuff is cool because mean, back country, just camping, hiking, backpacking. [00:38:32,832] Is that part of your, you you’ve got the fishing, have you guys looked at that, like just the whole industry of outdoor, you know, people that aren’t even fly fishing that might be [00:38:41,099] using these things? [00:38:42,121] Yeah. [00:38:42,478] Like right now we’re just here to like really make noise, right? [00:38:46,381] In the fishing industry, like we’re not going away. [00:38:48,783] We’re here. [00:38:49,663] Like we’re going to keep innovating. [00:38:51,084] Like we’re going to keep at this and it’s catching and we’re seeing the results and just, we wanted to really dummy the market there and really make some noise in the fishing [00:39:02,683] industry. [00:39:03,013] But we do with our products, like our waterproof socks, our regular merino wool ones. [00:39:07,596] And we can really, uh you know, [00:39:10,350] transfer into other markets once we kind of, you know, feel like we’ve really solidified ourselves in the fly fishing or fishing industry. [00:39:18,332] And we also look into like the bass markets, like, you know, other brands are, you know, into spin casters and stuff. Page 27 [00:39:23,604] You can wear that stuff on the front or like, you know, for, you know, that kind of market as well. [00:39:28,245] So just keep expanding because the fly fishing market really in the main scheme of things is actually pretty small compared to uh a lot of other markets. [00:39:36,788] But yeah. [00:39:37,770] Some of our stuff when you keep innovating backcountry skins and waterproof socks, we definitely have down the road. [00:39:42,837] Hopefully if we get big enough, are going to look into, uh you know, like hiking socks and really marketing and making a whole new kind of outlook there. [00:39:51,568] That’s always in our mind for sure. [00:39:53,260] Yeah, yeah, there’s all those sectors. [00:39:55,341] don’t even, maybe even like hunting, right? [00:39:57,222] You might even, all these things, there might be a chance. [00:39:59,975] What about, you’re out there, and I haven’t done this in a while, you know, mainly because I have the boat, but like the float tube you’re doing the backcountry. [00:40:06,775] I remember back in the day, that was always a thing. [00:40:08,692] You go into a lake, you backpack in, you’re gonna be there for day or two, and you got all this gear, waders, boots. [00:40:14,006] Could you put the backcountry skins on in a float tube? [00:40:16,328] Would your legs be warm enough in the water? [00:40:18,930] uh [00:40:19,640] Yeah, that’s a great question. [00:40:20,821] Like that’s a whole other concept. [00:40:22,593] like what I’m talking about is like more and more people are going into a lot of these Alpine lakes and like with pack rafts. [00:40:29,219] That’s what we use. [00:40:30,009] We use these small pack rafts and we put these big packs on and uh that’s what skins is about. [00:40:36,095] Like, so when you get out there floating and like, it’s really hard if you’re going to hike in waders or if you’re going to freeze and you know, like the weather turns and [00:40:45,012] regular traditional wet wading gear. Page 28 [00:40:47,022] But with a near pre leggings, even if you roll them in your pack and it’s a little hot hiking up to a lot of these spots. [00:40:52,422] But once you put them on on a floaty, like, you know, like a fish cat or like it’s your regulated your legs and you feel safer. [00:41:00,022] You feel safe. [00:41:01,482] Yeah. [00:41:01,702] So lots of guys are, you know, like I said, hiking in and wearing them in their boats. [00:41:07,622] Lots of people are sending them in with their flippers on and just saying basically like we’re dude, these are awesome. [00:41:13,762] We’re never wearing wagers again is a lot of. [00:41:16,042] The feedback, the feedback we’re getting. [00:41:18,030] So they are working, so they are good. [00:41:19,550] So float tube, having your legs in the water. [00:41:21,190] Oh, for sure. [00:41:22,030] Okay, so that’s huge. [00:41:23,270] Yeah, because that saves you tons of weight. [00:41:25,550] You you got these lights so you don’t carry your weighters in and you probably don’t need boots, so you just have your flippers if you’re doing the float. [00:41:31,610] And that’s kind of what I’m thinking would be kind of cool is to have that, then you got your packable rod, you’re just doing it ultra light, right? [00:41:38,010] And then you got your pack. [00:41:38,790] What do you guys got? [00:41:39,890] So are you doing that quite a bit? [00:41:41,250] Do you guys have your big packs? [00:41:42,430] Are you hiking in, camping? [00:41:44,010] Or is this more like day stuff that you guys do or have done? [00:41:46,798] yeah, you got it man. [00:41:48,330] That’s that’s where the whole concept was born. [00:41:50,812] Like we just love getting out in the back country trying to to find, you know, cutthroat trout or you know, whatever it is in these Alpine lakes and packs are so important Page 29 with [00:42:02,222] weight. [00:42:02,523] It comes down to like the, you know, the ounce. [00:42:05,315] like, you know what I mean? [00:42:06,766] like, yeah, huge things you got to always have when you’re going into the back country or like, you know, like freeze-dried food. [00:42:13,228] you know, a water filtration device and we do camp in them like little tackable tent, inflatable mattress, inflatable pillow. [00:42:19,941] They think that the gear is getting so light now. [00:42:22,722] It’s awesome. [00:42:23,462] But definitely having a backcountry skins rolled up in your bag. [00:42:28,324] feel like extra extra piece of confidence for sure. [00:42:32,238] for sure. [00:42:32,938] Yeah, that’s great. [00:42:33,598] What is your, you mentioned the boat. [00:42:35,118] What’s the boat you guys use for those? [00:42:37,518] You’re not using float tubes, you’re using something else? [00:42:39,928] We used to use like those fish traditional fish cats. [00:42:43,799] but now they just coming out with, uh, like there’s a Coco Pelli raft that I use. [00:42:48,921] Yeah. [00:42:49,231] Coco Pelli is pretty good. [00:42:50,941] I think NRS has a couple of ones on my friends use that are like just getting really good. [00:42:54,990] They even have like fish holders on them and stuff, but, you can pack these things light and you can get into some places where we used to just, you know, it’s really hard when [00:43:03,455] you get up there and you can’t have no back cast with the trees behind you or whatever it is. [00:43:07,746] But now you can just throw this little floaty in and you just everything, you know, the world’s your oyster up there. Page 30 [00:43:14,796] Right. [00:43:15,188] Yeah. [00:43:15,460] Those coca pellies. [00:43:16,105] How much do those things weigh? [00:43:17,161] If you get the lighter one. [00:43:18,902] camera mine’s like I think mine’s like mine’s like a pound oh that light yeah like a pound or two but some of the ones my friends have are a little bit heavier they have a little [00:43:28,065] more they like to have a little more thickness sure look at them in like we still make it work you got enough water you know [00:43:35,800] Do you blow them up? [00:43:36,682] Do you have a little pump? [00:43:38,586] What does it come with? [00:43:39,864] Yeah, like they actually come with it just like a little like you can use like an inflatable bag that has like, you know, the roll up that that’s like the lightest way if [00:43:46,631] you want to use those. [00:43:48,523] I personally bought a little one on Amazon, like a little electric hand pump, but it’s also good to like not just have that you want to have something you can always blow in [00:43:57,553] case your battery dies or, whatever. [00:44:00,035] But there’s all sorts of devices out there now. [00:44:03,022] Wow, these are cool. [00:44:04,382] I love the product. [00:44:04,982] Do you love, I mean, you guys are building a product. [00:44:07,122] know, I’ve done some product stuff in the past and I’m not obviously doing, I’m kind of helping, working with brands now, but do you love seeing, like, because the Cocoa Pout, [00:44:15,282] when I look at that thing, I’m like, this thing looks, like, I’ve heard about it, people love it, it looks so unique. [00:44:21,222] Do you really get excited when you see these other brands and some of these other cool products? [00:44:25,582] yeah, like they’re just getting more more tailored like and more advanced and more lighter Just for like people when you’re getting out there or even like just safety gear as well Page 31 [00:44:34,910] like, know, like now you can text on satellite which you know, you’re definitely out there to like to be, know find solitude and get away from all that but at the same time like you [00:44:44,608] can like I think on your iPhone now, I don’t know if you guys have seen this for you know satellite you yeah, like you’re [00:44:49,742] So you can text with a normal without just a normal plan, your normal like AT &T, you can text. [00:44:54,178] Like just you find a satellite like on your phone and then you find it in the sky and you click it and then if you’re like, Hey, hey wifey, like I’m safe out here, you know, [00:45:02,280] another night’s done. [00:45:03,492] It’s pretty crazy. [00:45:04,453] oh [00:45:05,250] I didn’t know about that, no kidding. [00:45:06,801] now you can literally, because there obviously is the uh Elan’s right, the Starlink, which is crazy. [00:45:13,030] I mean, Starlink, you’re out in middle of nowhere. [00:45:14,668] You could just fall on, that, but you gotta have your satellite dish and sort of stuff. [00:45:18,472] But what you’re saying is literally the phones now are getting the tech. [00:45:21,855] like everybody has it. [00:45:23,106] Yeah, like, well, I don’t know what new iPhones it is or what ones it is, but now they’re coming like mine. [00:45:29,206] The newest one has like this option where I just click a satellite, find it in the air and then I can like send like, hey, I didn’t get eaten by a bear tonight. [00:45:36,847] Oh wow. [00:45:38,810] That’s a good tip, man. [00:45:39,769] This is a, that we got to, that’s a nice nugget. [00:45:43,118] Yeah, like safety gear, garments, like everything is just kind of getting, you know, even skins is part of the innovative, like it making you lighter and more protected and unique [00:45:51,649] thing. [00:45:51,889] Just like other brands, I get so excited. Page 32 [00:45:53,741] I get so excited when I see like, man, they’re making that or right. [00:45:58,117] And it gets my mind going on like this still needs this. [00:46:00,340] Maybe we should start another brand with this. [00:46:02,252] Right, yeah, that’s a, you probably get that right. [00:46:04,627] Your shiny object thing. [00:46:07,473] Yeah. [00:46:07,623] You got it. [00:46:08,024] got to stay focused for. [00:46:09,624] Alright, can I branch so I have time to like, you know, there’s like, because there’s not one actually dedicated to like, kind of what we do yet, like completely but like the [00:46:19,034] things that I would add to it but uh [00:46:21,799] You gotta stay focused. [00:46:23,311] Yeah, you gotta stay focused. [00:46:24,624] Yeah, I’m looking at the Coca-Poe now. [00:46:26,347] They got their two-person raft and literally it folds down to the size of a, it’s like twice as long as a Nalgene bottle. [00:46:33,620] That’s how small it gets. [00:46:34,691] wow. [00:46:35,172] are even a couple of our locals or friends I see online are like they’re getting the inflatable drift boats and then they’re getting then they’re getting Helicoptered into the [00:46:44,906] headwaters like steel headers and like helicoptered like they break it down right because you can actually carry some weight now [00:46:51,604] boats are these? [00:46:52,095] these the inflatable drift boat? [00:46:53,727] Who’s making this? [00:46:54,347] Flycraft, think. [00:46:56,430] Flycraft is making a drift boat now. [00:46:58,798] Yeah, there’s tons actually out there now. [00:47:02,140] Their inflatable drift boats are kind of like taking over like, like guys are Page 33 getting out there inflating them in their back of their trucks and like they’re three seaters and [00:47:10,726] stuff. [00:47:11,527] And they’re like helling them in right? [00:47:13,889] Cause you can carry some weight in helicopters and they’re like going to the headwaters getting dropped off, blow up. [00:47:20,534] They’re, just ripping the whole, you know, the whole thing. [00:47:23,436] So it’s pretty crazy, man. [00:47:25,637] It’s getting wild out there. [00:47:26,936] Totally and I’m looking at now. [00:47:28,137] I’m trying to look at the drift by still don’t see because the one I think of it with the drift boat is the You know the company that did one was NRS. [00:47:36,345] They made like a full it look it. [00:47:37,607] Yes. [00:47:38,097] It looks like yeah, right It looks just like a drift boat, but I don’t think they make them anymore But fly craft is when I don’t see the drift post out. [00:47:45,735] Maybe it’s [00:47:46,375] uh [00:47:49,858] again, it might be a language thing, they might be calling their raft more of a different raft, a drift boat style or whatever, but. [00:47:56,120] Yeah, like I just used a pack rest, I definitely seen my friends. [00:47:58,894] I don’t know what names they are, but I definitely have seen online. [00:48:02,098] These guys are inflating them up and you know, I don’t know if water master out of can. [00:48:07,154] I don’t know what one it is. [00:48:08,734] I think it’s just a matter of I think it’s more a design thing, you know, if you call it a drift boat, maybe it doesn’t look exactly like it, but it’s still essentially an [00:48:16,554] inflatable boat, right? [00:48:17,674] That doesn’t really matter. [00:48:18,860] Yeah, yeah, which is crazy, like the inflatable stuff they’re coming out with now. Page 34 [00:48:23,672] For sure. [00:48:24,423] Okay, cool. [00:48:25,343] Well, let’s take this moment. [00:48:26,434] This is a good chance that we’re talking gear. [00:48:28,295] I mean, obviously we’ve been talking gear the whole time, but, um, this is, this is our, it’s to be our gear segment. [00:48:32,818] We’ll start to take it out of here here. [00:48:34,229] And, I wanted to highlight Patagonia because they’re a partner of ours this year and a company I love. [00:48:39,973] And again, this is perfect because they have the Swift current waiters, which is something that, you know, I think is a great waiter is the one I’ve been wearing lately. [00:48:47,062] Um, they’ve got some cool features. [00:48:48,799] I think they’re different than other ones out there as well. [00:48:50,731] So, so I want to give a shout out to Patagonia. [00:48:53,176] today as we talk about this, what about you? [00:48:55,618] know, we’re talking about gear. [00:48:56,769] Who are some of those other brands out there that you’re kind of looking up to and saying, wow, they’re doing some great stuff out there? [00:49:01,912] Yeah, like I think every brand is awesome in their own way and have their own storyline and gear. [00:49:07,784] And we’re just trying to carve our own unique, you know, path, just like those brands I’m sure did at the start. [00:49:16,548] It started with like, you know, just one little like that is this is one of those stories right now. [00:49:21,560] That’s kind of. [00:49:22,188] Right. [00:49:22,599] You’re like the Patagonia Yvonne Chouinard, know, you’re the, he started with the, uh, whatever the, the pitons or where, know, where the pound. [00:49:30,474] I read, I actually read his book. [00:49:32,007] Yeah. [00:49:32,478] uh Page 35 [00:49:36,517] let my people go surfing. [00:49:38,004] Yeah, yeah. [00:49:38,614] I read that audio book and drink and you know these I always just love hearing other entrepreneurs stories are like so inspiring how they started and it’s just like the [00:49:48,492] smallest little you know just a conversation and and and that’s kind of like with us too like we’re just like during covid with a wedding fund and just basically you know what I [00:49:57,998] that how it started? [00:49:58,760] that? [00:49:59,020] Yeah, remind us again. [00:49:59,852] Is that how it started in COVID? [00:50:01,134] You guys came up with, how did that idea come to you guys? [00:50:03,890] Yeah. [00:50:04,630] We were bored and probably out of work at the time. [00:50:08,812] My brother had some money and we just like, dude, guys are wearing leggings in New Zealand and on the water. [00:50:15,355] Let’s dedicate a brand to this and what materials exactly can we perfect to do this? [00:50:23,298] You have so much confidence behind it, but you never really know because it really is up to the people to decide. [00:50:28,641] But that’s how it all came together. [00:50:31,726] That’s how it started. [00:50:33,606] Yeah. [00:50:33,966] Well, I was going to say when we had Yvonne Chouinard on, I asked him, you know, we were talking about, you know, his success and he just said, basically he’s done the opposite of [00:50:44,306] every other business in his whole career. [00:50:46,446] And it’s always worked every time he’s done the opposite. [00:50:49,368] the right ah [00:51:15,705] NO. [00:51:16,237] THERE’S NO RULES. Page 36 [00:51:17,136] RULES. [00:51:17,480] YEP. [00:51:17,752] think that when you start up like this patent or this or that, you know what I mean? [00:51:22,245] Like it really is like just a vision. [00:51:25,416] And if it’s helping, if it’s helping people in some way, then we’re going to get behind it. [00:51:30,829] You know what I mean? [00:51:31,560] And, and that’s what I think we’re doing. [00:51:34,131] We’re helping people, you know, if you don’t have a lot of money, you can get a pair of skins. [00:51:37,894] Um, if, you’re an active angler or hardcore backcountry guy, these are going to help you. [00:51:42,756] You know what I mean? [00:51:43,657] So that’s kind of where. [00:51:45,900] You know, other brands, always look at them. [00:51:47,491] I’m always on the industry. [00:51:48,632] Like what you said, learning or watching other brands, like I said, reading that book and I just find them all also inspiring a lot of their stories and like other entrepreneurs. [00:51:59,198] But uh yeah, we try to stay kind of in and carve our own little unique. [00:52:04,502] To the pie. [00:52:05,578] Well, and it’s unique and you keep seeing why it’s such a cool product because I mean, waiters, the other thing about waiters is although Patagonia does a great job of fixing [00:52:12,618] waiters, I think I’ve heard stories of them fixing waiters until, you know, forever. [00:52:17,238] So like you almost don’t need to buy a new pair, but you know, waiters wear out, you know, that’s thing, they get holes and then eventually you need to, I mean, your things will [00:52:23,838] wear out too, but it’s not that big of a deal. [00:52:26,238] Like you could wear your waiters, I’m sure for like years, right? [00:52:28,858] Years and years. Page 37 [00:52:29,918] Yeah. [00:52:30,222] That guys, like getting like having two pairs or one pairs. [00:52:34,062] But yeah, like you said, if there’s a whole like not like waiters, like waiters are always going to have a thing in the industry. [00:52:39,282] Like, like in the winter, especially like they’re always like they’re always like, you know, like they’re not going anywhere. [00:52:46,420] if you’re in the if you’re out there on a winter trip, know, maybe it’s a destination and all of sudden you got leaky waders. [00:52:52,645] You’re hating. [00:52:53,806] You’re hating it. [00:52:54,727] You’re life. [00:52:55,652] That’s a rough. [00:52:55,968] That’s a rough time. [00:52:56,758] So, I mean, it’s tough because, well, do you bring two pairs of waders or, know, what do you do? [00:53:01,172] you know, you just got to find that brand. [00:53:02,675] You know what mean? [00:53:03,294] That you love, you know, and kind of stay with it. [00:53:06,306] But yeah, this has been good. [00:53:07,988] What else do want to before we get out of here? [00:53:09,679] Do we want to make sure people know about backcountry skins or what you guys have going? [00:53:13,944] Yeah, man, just we’re going to keep innovating and making new products and carving our own, like I said, way into the industry and uh just keep, you know, like any feedback that [00:53:23,709] anyone ever has like on our products. [00:53:25,720] We always love hearing that to keep, you know, they have all sorts of ideas guys think of that we don’t even think of it just two brothers, two minds. [00:53:34,385] So any feedback on the skins or if you’re like, you know, have any questions or anything like that, just to always reach out, it’s always [00:53:43,480] Just my brother and I is getting back to people. Page 38 [00:53:45,451] It’s pretty one-on-one, which we take pride in because we’re really passionate about this whole thing. [00:53:52,514] Yeah, awesome man. [00:53:53,484] Well, good to hear that things are going well. [00:53:55,995] And yeah, I think definitely we’ll keep in touch and I’ve got to get my, I’ve got to get into some new back country skins. [00:54:02,668] think, you know, like I said, Megan is just loving them. [00:54:05,169] She’s, you know what I mean? [00:54:06,740] Like totally loving them. [00:54:07,840] And I think the, I think the neoprene booties too, or something. [00:54:10,801] can’t remember the ones I’ve been wearing lately, what brand they’ve been, but you know, they’re good. [00:54:15,103] Although again, stuff breaks down. [00:54:16,524] I just noticed I was pulling up my, my booties. [00:54:19,199] They’re not your guys, they’re another brand. [00:54:20,655] And I noticed like right in the seam, [00:54:22,478] It’s like, it’s starting to split. [00:54:24,000] You know, can see the hole starting. [00:54:25,290] I’m like, OK, these things aren’t going to last that long. [00:54:27,846] And I’m going to probably have to get a new pair. [00:54:29,599] So um yeah, man, definitely looking forward to seeing all the good stuff you guys have going. [00:54:33,504] And we’ll keep in touch with you. [00:54:34,857] Yeah, man. [00:54:35,197] Awesome. [00:54:35,991] Appreciate it and thanks for having me on. [00:54:39,950] There you go, if you want to check in with Kelly, go over to Backcountry Skins. [00:54:44,790] That’s skinswithz.com if you want to check out all their great gear. [00:54:48,610] If you want to connect more with us, if you want to find out more about the trip, it sounds like Bold Trout might be in the menu. Page 39 [00:54:54,590] Not on the menu, might be a trip we have coming here. [00:54:58,510] Check in with me, go to wetflieswing.com slash pro. [00:55:02,650] If you sign up for pro, that’s your best chance to start putting some of these trips together with us. [00:55:08,366] Also want to give you a heads up. [00:55:09,826] We talked about BC, which is where Kelly lives now. [00:55:12,626] We are doing the Skeenahs Bay Lodge giveaway right now. [00:55:15,826] The giveaway is over, but we are still looking to fill a spot for the trip. [00:55:19,586] You can go to right now, just send me email, dave at wetflyswing.com. [00:55:23,526] Let me know if you’re interested in booking one of the last spots there for the Skeenahs Bay Lodge. [00:55:28,546] I know we had some big fish caught last year because I’m looking at the pictures right now. [00:55:33,926] So get in now while we still have some spots available. [00:55:37,016] That’s all I have for you today. [00:55:38,036] Hope you have a great morning. [00:55:40,128] Hope you’re having an amazing afternoon. [00:55:41,799] And if it’s evening, um I’m not sure what you’re up to. [00:55:45,891] Hopefully you’re out there traveling or getting ready for the next trip. [00:55:48,452] I know I’m sitting here picking up some lines from Waters West, a fly shop right now, getting ready to do our own trip. [00:55:56,477] And I’m excited, looking to get a new reel as well. [00:56:00,259] I’m probably going to hopefully get a Lampson, another Lampson reel coming in here very soon. [00:56:04,141] So check in with me if you have any gear needs. [00:56:06,574] trip needs, anything else, but I appreciate you and appreciate you for stopping in all the way to the very end. [00:56:10,576] We’ll talk to you soon. [00:56:12,157] Thanks for listening to the WetFly Swing fly fishing show. [00:56:15,619] For notes and links from this episode, visit wetflyswing.com. Page 40