962 | Soulfly Co.: How Music and Fly Fishing Are Building a Stronger Community

00:00:00 Dave Stewart: Fly fishing has a way of bringing people together, but every once in a while, someone comes along with a fresh idea for what that can look like. Today we’re talking about music conservation community, and why creating experiences away from the water can be just as meaningful as the days spent on it. Joining us today is Kyle Schaefer from Soulfly Co. And he’s going to talk about how he’s building a different kind of gathering for anglers while also running a lodge in one of the Bahamas most respected permit fisheries. In this episode, you’re going to hear how Soulfly events blend music, fly fishing, and conservation into one big weekend event. What they’ve learned after selling out their first festival in Charleston. We’re going to get a look inside Soulfly Lodge on the Berry Islands and how this area is different, what it looks like for species, and a few insider species that you might want to think about on top of the top. The big ones we always think about. Plus, we’re going to get into conservation and what you can do today to help support protecting the species we love. All right, you can find Kyle. Like we said, Soulfly Lodge. You can go to Soulfly dot com. Here he is. Kyle Shaffer. How are you doing, Kyle? 00:01:11 Kyle Schaefer: I’m doing great. Dave. How are you doing? 00:01:13 Dave Stewart: Really good. Really good. I’m excited for this one. I think I want to say it was Rachel Finn, I believe told me about your event you guys have coming here. I think you’ve got a couple where you’re doing you’re mixing, it’s music, fly fishing, and we’re going to get the details on that because I’m a big music fan. Of course, podcasting is big, but for audio, you know, there’s nothing better than on a road trip listening to some good music. So we’re going to talk music today. We’re also going to talk about your lodge you have down in the Bahamas, another big spot there, location that people are definitely interested in. So we’re going to get into all that today. But take us back real quick on, you know, this music. How did this come to be? When did this event idea and you know, your fly fishing, bringing those together come as an idea? 00:01:53 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. Well, it’s definitely been kind of a morphing journey that has has got us here, you know. And I think it’s really been kind of a progression of Soulfly, you know, my company and this brand that we’ve, you know, kind of morphed and changed over time. You know, for me, it started as just my guiding business. So it was Soulfly Outfitters for, for a number of years. And, you know, I was guiding for striped bass fishing for stripers, all with a very heavy conservation focus. And how can we take care of the waters around us? So, you know, it felt like built this really cool community. And I’ll try and keep this, this, uh, short and wrap it back around to events. But after that, you know, we, you know, we had this really great opportunity and this would be really abbreviated of to start of very, you know, a great opportunity to start a lodge down in the Berry Islands. And so we realized we’re, you know, we’re now we’re offering, offering these experiences to more people. But lodge fishing in another country can be exclusive. And not a lot of people can make it there. They don’t always have the time. And, you know, just seeing all these beautiful benefits of building community around fishing. Having it be bigger than actually the fish is just such a beautiful approach. And so that’s really where events came in. And my partner, Alec Griswold, my wife Kitty, and my partners on everything that we do here and with Soulfly. And so we started, uh, we started really talking about kind of this, this need for a different kind of event in the fly fishing space and, you know, event that brings community together around music, around art, around an advocacy issue. Maybe there’s a couple nonprofits involved and really focusing on kind of this intangible vibe that we’re trying to build and have it really feel like this self produced. Of course, we’re putting a lot of, uh, a lot of time and effort into, to what’s going into the event, but also really, really having it be focused on the, the members of the community that are coming to these events. And I think one of the special things is we’re we’re going nowhere with it. And we have, you know, we’re very open minded and we are listening to the community after we put an event on and just trying to do it better, better every year. But I think part of the Secret Sauce has been bringing in really good music for it. 00:04:14 Dave Stewart: Right. That’s the key. Yeah. Bringing the good music. And I’m sure that’s a little bit of a challenge there. And just the whole logistics of all that. Did you have getting into this? Is this something where you jump into it and just kind of by the seat of your pants, or do you have some experience in the event planning or music space? 00:04:30 Speaker 3: You know, I feel like we’ve got some experience putting these different experiences together. But no, you know, we are not we are not event people. We we did not come from a background of event management. And I think it really was just, you know, we’re, we’re looking at this as we were starting to get into it. My partner Grizz is just, he’s just the perfect person to be really kind of leading us into this And you know, he’s just just an incredible human who’s just a super social person. He’s great at building community. And Chris used to do this through, and he still does through a nonprofit that he started called Elevate Youth, which gets gets kids in the city outside and under these long term mentorship programs. And so, like, there’s been a lot of elements to kind of all of our work life in the past that has, I think has positioned us well for it. But we this is really the first go in foray into it. And honestly, that might be a benefit because we haven’t, you know, we’re just kind of creating something that we see as the best fit for, for these different communities at this time and doing a lot of listening. 00:05:33 Dave Stewart: That’s cool. That’s smart. Yeah, listening is good, for sure. What is the talk about the events? I think you have a couple and there’s one that’s coming up here this year, right in September. 00:05:42 Speaker 3: Yes, definitely. So we’ve got Boston is coming up our first event in Boston. So September twelfth, we’re actually going to have a fundraiser event on September eleventh, which is going to benefit Elevate Youth, who I just mentioned, and then also the Saltwater Guides Association, Marine Fisheries conservation, a huge need for for more firepower and more work being done in that space right now. So we’ll have the fundraiser on Friday night. We’ll have the the festival on Saturday, and we’ll have some fishing kind of mixed in throughout the weekend. And actually, we’re just right on the cusp of making some, some announcements on, on music and, and tickets and getting all that stuff up on the website here in the next couple of days. So, um, pretty excited for, for the space. It’s going to be down at Cisco Brewers in the seaport in Boston, a great central location. So we’re getting very excited. In our first event that we, we put on was in Charleston this past spring in May. And we had a great, great venue at the refinery. We had just an amazing community. Paul Puckett was. Oh, yeah. Um, such a huge lead on. Kind of pulling community together with us. And it just felt like once we got it, once we got it kind of started, there was just a lot of people that just wanted to, to pitch in and help and, and pull this community together. And Charleston is just such a wonderful community to have our have our first event. So it sold out. The vibes were great, the music was killer. And it really felt like, okay, we are. Uh, it was very encouraging. You know, we put it, we put a ton of effort into it. And you hope that everything goes to plan. And, uh, and the vibe was great and people are, people are ready to keep it, keep it rolling. And we got a lot of those Charleston people that are that are hopping on the road and they’re coming up to support the event in Boston. So I think we’ve got, uh, we got a great a great team coming together to. 00:07:36 Dave Stewart: How far is that drive from Charleston to Boston? 00:07:39 Speaker 3: Oh, man, I’ve made it a couple times. It’s, uh, don’t quote me on it, but it’s probably, it’s probably a good fifteen hours. 00:07:45 Dave Stewart: Okay. Fifteen I was going to say I was going to say twelve We’re heading out to Montana, and it’s about a twelve hour drive to Helena. And and I’m like, okay, I don’t know what it is, but as I get older, I can drive longer. You know, it feels like. So I could put twelve hours behind me pretty. I could do it, you know, almost in a day, you know what I mean? But, um, talk about the music. So that’s one big thing, right? Because this could be country music. It could be reggae, it could be anything. What is the type of music and who’s going to be there? 00:08:12 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, it’s interesting because I mean, you know, you think of music and, and what you like and you know, what, what really moves you. And there’s so many other elements when you’re thinking about actually booking a band for, uh, for a festival, you know, like, what is the vibe that you want it to be? Who is, who’s the draw? Is it going to be able to draw in a really interesting crowd? And so we have some help on, on booking music, which has been a really, really key for us just to just really understand that landscape. So and in Charleston, I can’t mention who we’ve got, uh, for Boston quite yet. We’re just going to get that up in a couple of days. 00:08:47 Dave Stewart: Talk about Charleston. That’d be easier. Like you’ve already had it. So who is at the Charleston event? 00:08:52 Speaker 3: For sure. So we had the stews were our headline band, um, their, their band that’s really strong in the southeast and you know, they’re, they’re up and coming. They, um, you know, they kind of have like a, a jammy vibe to them and they’re, they just have such a really great community down there and, uh, in the southeast. So that was one of those bands that were like, you know, it’s, they’re going to bring just an awesome, awesome vibe, but they’re also gonna draw in a lot of people and they have a great following down there. They love playing Charleston. It’s a community that they love. And then we also had Mountain Grass Unit who was just an absolute blast. They they opened the show. Leon Madison and then, uh, Paul Puckett’s band played for us as well. And they just, they just rock and they just did such a great job opening up the event in the afternoon. Um, because of the way it works is, you know, it’s the first section. The first few hours of the event is really focused on kind of the core community and the fly fishing activations and the sponsors and, and the, you know, the music, the food, all that is, is really kind of front and central. The first, the first part of the event. And then you kind of get into the afternoon and the bands start playing and, you know, it does feel like it does kind of take a little bit of a shift. You know, now people are focusing a little bit more on the music. And so we, we had this really fun kind of flow to the event where it’s core community to start. And then you have a lot of different people kind of trickling in. And then by the end of the night, it’s, it feels like you’re just at a full on, full on live music event. 00:10:24 Dave Stewart: That’s awesome. I love that. So you blend it. So you kind of start with the, like you said, the fly fishing activation. So get things going and then by the end it’s full on music. What are the, you know, the people going there? Is it all fly anglers or is this are there some people that have never fly fish that are just coming for the music? 00:10:40 Speaker 3: There is. Yeah, it’s such a mixed bag and I think that’s something that our, you know, our industry is interested in is like, how do you not just talk to the same group of people that, you know, preaching to the choir, whether it’s about conservation or whether it’s about trying to grow our sport. And so, you know, we really did see that, you know, when you are bringing in music like this that has a following, you are getting a lot of people that are, um, getting an entry point into the sport. Maybe they’re getting some interest, maybe it’s through conservation and advocacy. Maybe it’s, I mean, I was, I did a bunch of casting instruction at the event and, um, in Charleston and there were so many, everybody that I taught had never picked up a fly rod. So it was really cool. It was a lot of people that were very interested. Um, they’d, you know, they’ve watched the sport from afar, but I think they’ve, they had a hard time finding their, their entry point. And so, you know, I think our perspective is if we can get, if we can have new people enter this sport, You know, it’s good for brands, it’s good for conservation, it’s good for the community. You know, I think we’ve got more to protect than than ever and and a stronger need than ever to advocate for, for what we love and these wild places. And so it’s been, it’s been interesting getting this kind of this mixed group to join for these events. 00:12:01 Dave Stewart: Right. What was the, as you were getting into it, just the build up to it. I’m not sure how long you were planning it, but what was the kind of the most challenging thing about putting this all together? 00:12:10 Speaker 3: Man, I think, I think a lot of it is just you’re doing everything brand new for the first time, you know? So it’s like everywhere you turn, you know, we’re so we’re fortunate to have Charleston behind us now and we’re like, okay, okay. 00:12:24 Dave Stewart: So do you have the town of Charleston kind of the visit, the group, the town itself behind you? 00:12:29 Speaker 3: Well, and I mean, just like the event itself is now in the rear view mirror and we’ve done everything. And also we did feel like a lot of community support, which was great. So I guess I meant that in both ways of it. But but you know, now that you now that we’ve got that event under our belt, like there’s just so many questions that have been answered. You know, Boston, again, it’s everything is we’re doing everything brand new for the first time. Um, we’re doing, working at a new venue. We’re, we’re working with a Boston community, which is so different than Charleston. And so I think that’s probably one of the biggest challenges is just, uh, you know, you’re just every day, you’re, uh, is kind of frontier forging on with a very new business, a very young event company that, you know, we’re trying to do special stuff and do a lot of listings. So it just, it just takes a lot of heavy lifting in that, in that sense. And, you know, I think as we get into year two and year three and these, we’re going to have kind of a little bit of a formula and, you know, we’re building out a great team that’s been, uh, that’s been amazing. I’ve got another partner named Will Morris who’s down in South Carolina. He’s been incredible. Just a young, super bright dude who’s just, uh, just such a sharp guy. But there hasn’t been like a huge amount of roadblocks. It’s just more hard work. And, uh, in trying to be, uh, trying to be nimble. 00:13:47 Dave Stewart: That’s awesome. I’m looking at, um, this is on your website. So this is, uh, I guess public stuff here. This is for the, uh, it looks like September twelfth. It will be the event, right? 00:13:59 Speaker 3: Exactly. Yep. 00:14:01 Dave Stewart: And so it looks like you have, uh, not, not Jimmy Buffett, but Jimmy Buffett is that part of the crew that will be there. 00:14:07 Speaker 3: That is yeah. So we’re going to have, we’re there a really cool kind of jam band with a good following in the northeast. They cover a ton of Jimmy Buffett songs. 00:14:18 Dave Stewart: That’s awesome. Uh, they just kind of caught my eye. We just had recently actually. Well, I’m talking in the future because we schedule stuff, but Tom McGuane is on the podcast and he was just talking about, you know, he was a big guy back in the seventies, right back in that, you know, kind of fishing down there in Florida. And Jimmy Buffett was one of his buddies, and they were talking about back in the time, right back in the day when they were just fishing and, you know, drinking and partying too much and stuff like that. But, um, so I love a little Jimmy Buffett music for sure. So that’ll be good. And then, um, yeah, so you’ve got some other kind of notes here. So we’ll have a link in the show notes so people can check that out on the details. So that’s the twelfth. And then the next year you guys are going to do this again in May for the Charleston show. 00:14:59 Speaker 3: We are we’re going to do Charleston again in May. We’ll do New England again. Well, there’s there’s very likely that will change venues for, uh, for kind of our Boston area event. And, you know, we’ll probably add one more in the next couple years. And, you know, we’ve got some thoughts and ideas on that, but, uh, but just trying to, you know, we really don’t want to grow. We really don’t want to grow this thing in size. I think we’d rather go deeper, you know, not turn this into like, uh, you know, fifteen, twenty, zero zero zero person events where, you know, you’re just kind of get lost in the scale and scope. I think we’d rather continue to build out really thoughtful ways for, um, smaller events to, to feel intimate and to feel like you’re not losing that vibe. So I think there’s a lot of ways to do that. I mean, I think it’s honestly kind of endless. You know, we’re, there’s a lot of ways to kind of weave in more fishing experiences at these events. There’s, you know, there’s so much good food and great hospitality around at these locations that I think there’s, you know, that’s, I think where we’re, we’re hoping to kind of evolve versus just kind of lose the, the feel of these with growing them in size. 00:16:11 Dave Stewart: Love that, love that. It looks like one of your partners is Patagonia. And obviously they’ve, uh, I know I’ve heard them talk about that, that they’re, you know, it’s like the book publishing part of it where they’re not about it’s not about making money. Right? Really for them, it’s about, you know, what’s the bigger picture? And I’m guessing since you have Patagonia on, that’s probably a pretty big thing for these events. How has that work with conservation? How does the. If people go there, how does that benefit conservation and the species out there? 00:16:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, Patagonia, I’ve I’ve been an ambassador for them for about four or five years. And we’re very excited that they’re going to be our, our presenting sponsor in Boston. And, you know, and I think our, our ethos with events, with the Lodge, with with my guiding business, it’s all been really centered in conservation and sustainability. And of course, we’re all very imperfect. But that was a big part of it for, for Patagonia coming on board. They, they obviously are such leaders in that in that mission as well. So for one, we’re we wanted to make an event that that folks could be proud to be engaged with from a sustainability standpoint. You know, we’ve got our impact report out from Charleston, which we’re about ninety six percent waste free. You know, we had offsets for, for our, our power consumption. Um, we put a ton of effort into, we raised about thirty thousand dollars for the Charleston Waterkeeper. So I think elements like that alone are like, Patagonia can feel good about signing on and being a presenting sponsor. And now that we’re getting into our our second event, we’re going to have a bunch of different Patagonia ambassadors there talking about, you know, their, their work in, in the conservation space. And, and a couple of the, uh, actually a couple, the ambassadors or consultants for the Saltwater Guides Association who will be advocating for marine conservation with like Blaine chocolate. He’s an ambassador for Patagonia and also a consultant with me at, uh, at ASG. A is the acronym for the Saltwater Guides Association. So we’re, you know, we’re going to be up there just spreading the good, the good word, putting on a, a sustainable event as we can, and also just trying not to jam it down anybody’s throat. You know, I think we want this to be a light touch and have it be fun. And let’s have getting together and making, uh, making a difference. Feel fun. Um, versus feeling really extractive on people, which I think can be such a deterrent for conservation, sustainability work and kind of the preachy kind of aspect of it to have it feel more inclusive than, uh, than a pile of work. And there’ll be fun things like Patagonia will show up and we’ll be doing wader repair and, you know, trying to repurpose gear. Um, so yeah, it’ll be good. 00:18:58 Dave Stewart: Check out Montana Fly Fishing Lodge, a twenty twenty four Orvis endorsed Lodge of the year finalist, where luxury meets adventure on one point five miles of private, wild and scenic East Rosebud River frontage. Experienced world class fly fishing on numerous Yellowstone Basin streams, gourmet cuisine made from locally sourced ingredients and rustic luxury accommodations. Surrounded by breathtaking wilderness, you can book your all inclusive Montana fly fishing adventure today and discover why they are the premier destination for unforgettable fishing experiences. Head over to Montana Fly Fishing Lodge dot com right now. Experience the waters of Bristol Bay at Togiak River Lodge, where fly fishing meets Alaska’s rugged beauty. This is the place to complete the Alaska Grand Slam with all five salmon species rainbow trout, Arctic char and more. Where each day offers a new Alaskan adventure. You can visit Togiak lodge dot com right now to start planning your Bristol Bay experience with Togiak River Lodge. Yeah, I love that you use the word activations. I feel like that’s something that we talk a lot about because we work with sponsorship, you know, and I think that, you know, probably a lot of people don’t maybe don’t hear that word every day activations, right. But what does that mean to you? It sounds like you’ve got a little experience in the sponsorship space. 00:20:12 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s I think it’s looking for just like interesting and unique ways to, to engage. I mean, I think, you know, sponsorships, I think, you know, you don’t want it to feel like it’s just an exchange of funds for impressions. I think you’re, you’re thinking about how you can just really, truly add value for the folks that are coming to the event, for the brands, for, for the whole community around that. And I think if we, I think if we’re thinking about all that and centering all of that into, you know, a mindset that is like, how do we continue to, to do our sport from now long, long, long into the future? I think it’s something that everybody can essentially agree on. And, you know, and so I think we’re just looking for different fun and new ways that, uh, you know, the attendees of the event can, can interact with the brands and, you know, and so we’ve been, and also kind of getting introduction to the sport. So, you know, we tried out a bunch of different fun kind of activations that we put sponsors in charge of in, in Charleston at the last event. And, you know, and I think it just, it’s like, you know, if I meet you on the street, Dave and I walk up to you and I just immediately start selling something. Yeah. 00:21:26 Dave Stewart: You don’t want that. Nobody wants that. 00:21:28 Speaker 3: Yeah, I lose you. So I think it’s I think it’s really, truly more about just building relationships and having these activations build relationships with the community between the brands. Realize, you know what, we’re all on the same page here. And heck, you might have a piece of gear that that helps me do my sport better. 00:21:45 Dave Stewart: There you go. And I see one here. I’m not sure if you guys did this one, but fly pong, the greatest fishing game on land. What is fly pong? 00:21:54 Speaker 3: Fly pong? Well, is that the one you’re looking at for Charleston? 00:21:57 Dave Stewart: Uh. Let’s see. I’m not sure which I’m on here. I’m on one of the events here, I think. No, I think it’s coming up. Yeah. So fly. No, this is Boston. You got Boston fly pong for Boston. 00:22:06 Speaker 3: You know what? I’m gonna have to, uh, I’d have to turn that one over to my, uh, my creative partner, Grizz. 00:22:11 Dave Stewart: Yeah. Okay, good. We’ll wait. We’ll wait on that one. Well, this will be great. We’ll get people fired up. I think that obviously, you know, there’s the music is a big thing, but like you’re saying, I think the activations having fun and obviously the conservation is a big part of it. Um, I want to talk about that a little bit, but I also want to hear kind of the fishing part of what you do. It sounds like that’s taken up a lot of your time throughout the year when you’re not working on this event, is that the other chunk of time is guiding? 00:22:37 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah. For me, I’m forty one. You know, I’ve been a guide since I got out of college. So that’s always has felt like the through line as I have meandered through this industry, I think as many of us end up end up doing seasonal work, putting the pieces together. So for, for me, it’s been, you know, as a trout guide for, for a while, I started out west. I’ve, uh, you know, I started my, my striped bass guiding business a little bit over a decade ago. Um, I’ve done some international guiding in between now and then. I’ve managed some lodges for other folks. And, uh, about six years ago I started Soulfly Lodge down in the Bahamas with some great partners. My wife, Alex Griswold, who I keep calling Griz and a couple other, a couple other partners as well. And so yeah, that really is kind of a huge part of my focus is, uh, has been guiding and, uh, and the lodge, you know, now we’re, we’re just entering our, our sixth season this September. It’s a, it’s a huge focus of, uh, of my work week as well. 00:23:38 Dave Stewart: It is. Yeah. So you mentioned it down in the Berry Islands and which is, you know, I don’t I haven’t been to the Bahamas yet. We’ve talked about it for sure. And every time we do an episode, I’m like, okay, where are we at? Because it’s pretty diverse. There’s a lot of little islands and you’re on this place. Talk about that. How is the Berry Islands? How is that different than maybe some other parts of the Bahamas? 00:23:58 Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, I think about the habitat and the terrain and, you know, looking at the habitat and terrain, you can almost really get a really good idea for what kind of fish you’re going to be there. Um, the Berry islands, I say that because the barrier islands are, um, they are not a nursery fishery. You know, there’s a lot of beautiful mangrove habitat and backwater and protected places for, for fish to grow up in the mangroves and recruit into recruit into the stock and become mature fish. But the barrier islands, for whatever reason, just holds a lot of mature fish. So we talk about the berries as a very special place to hunt special fish. And so we’ve got a we’ve got a killer permit fishery that, you know, if somebody’s going out there to catch their catch, their first permit, maybe they want to go somewhere where they can throw it a school of thirty or forty fish that are that are on the smaller size. The berries are not that place. We are, you know, we are a place where you’re hunting singles, doubles, small groups of, of usually large permit. And, you know, we’ve got some, uh, some great fishing from the, from the tip of the chain all the way down to the tail of it. And the bonefishing kind of follows suit a little bit, although there is a, there’s a great abundance of, of bonefish in the berries, really healthy population. And we actually work with, um, and are partnered with a long, long time guide in the berries. He’s one of the, OG’s of the the bone fishing world down in the Bahamas. His name is Percy Darville. Percy. You know, even we just did a big review on our our last season. He’s like, I’ve, I’ve never seen more bonefish in the berries, which is really cool to see habitats in good shape. There’s, you know, I take it as it’s been some recovering from, you know, there used to be some, some netting and, uh, a lot of parts of the Bahamas. And, you know, when you net a whole school, they’re just gone. You know, they, they had that, they had that fidelity to that site and they came back there year in and year out. And, um, and we’re residents to that zone. And when those fish are netted, they’re, they’re gone. There’s no more instinct to come back to that place. But we’ve been seeing schools coming back to places that we haven’t seen them before. And I think, you know, just continuing to give, uh, to give the fishery the opportunity to repair from whatever traumas it’s had over the last one hundred years. And, and so that’s a, that’s a really cool, really cool, kind of encouraging stat for us. I think we’re really cognizant of fishing pressure. We’re a four boat lodge. We could run more, but we just want we want to keep our pressure low, take care of the fishery, give great experiences. And the bonefish. A lot of bonefish are also larger than than average too. So, you know, you look at a place like Andros that is just miles and thousands and thousands of miles of creek and mangrove habitat. You know, there’s all sorts of sizes of bonefish there. You know, we find our averages is a little bit a little bit higher. And there’s some true, true giants to to throw down there. 00:26:55 Dave Stewart: Yeah. I love when you talk about the conservation. You could hear it in your voice. You know, you’ve definitely got that passion. And I know that’s something back to Patagonia that there a lot of times, you know they choose you right for that. You can’t just, you know, everybody wants to work with Patagonia, but you can’t just, you got to do be something special, right? It sounds like you put your time in to get there. The bonefish is interesting, right? The populations do you know? Do we have a feel for like numbers, like how well they’re doing? Or is it more kind of anecdotal? Like it sounds like you’re saying here where the, the guy, you know, obviously he’s on the water so he can know when fish are better, but it seems like sometimes you hear these stories like, oh, the fishing was better back in the day. You know, are we getting some numbers on regions of like how these species are doing now? 00:27:40 Speaker 3: You know, we really aren’t. Unfortunately, it is all anecdotal on most of the flats fishing species in the Bahamas. You know, the there are some groups that are starting to get together stock assessments and using, you know, using sophisticated models for, for species like grouper and, and conch and some of these other really important kind of food fish in the Bahamas. And a lot of them are overfished. And so I think here with bonefish and with, with permit and species like that, I think it’s, it really is, you know, as a guide, as an angler that fishes these places a lot, you truly become the expert citizen scientist, you know? I mean, what you’re seeing, what you’re seeing for trends, I think it is. It’s so important for us to, to react to what we’re seeing to. That’s why, you know, we just did, you know, about a month ago, we did our, our wrap up guide meeting or just a couple weeks ago actually, uh, wrap up guide meeting and like, let’s talk about trends. Let’s talk about what we’re seeing, what places are we maybe putting a little bit too much pressure on what places have opportunity to kind of spread the pressure out? Are there other species we should be focusing on that will allow us to let up off of the bonefish at certain parts of the tide, you know, all that stuff to just be really analytical and also like build a culture around a guide team that which is so easy and natural to do because they’re living is obviously made off of the abundance and the health of these stocks that everybody’s just so bought into. Let’s truly be the watchers of the flat and let’s adjust. Let’s see how we can operate better. 00:29:18 Dave Stewart: Definitely. Yeah. I feel like these species, you hear about them. We hear about them a lot. You know we’ve talked about them. Bonefish permit. Tarpon there’s these big ones. But there’s a lot of other species out there. You know we’ve talked about some of them that don’t get as much airplay. Why do you think that is. Is it why is it these three. Seems like there’s a few other ones that are big. And you know, you could probably name what a dozen other fish that are out in your area in the saltwater. 00:29:41 Speaker 3: But for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it’s just like, maybe I got a good pistachio example on that. Like, I feel like I didn’t see a big like pistachio push, but all of a sudden you have this marketing engine around pistachio, right? And you can buy them absolutely everywhere. 00:29:58 Dave Stewart: It’s like peanuts are great, you know, and I love peanuts, but yeah, pistachios at some point or bananas, right. Yeah. It was a marketing push where they just went crazy on it and it worked for sure. 00:30:08 Speaker 3: And I think it’s like, you know, I think it’s very similar. I think we have a lot of mechanisms in our industry that market these fish, and whether it’s conservation groups that are totally looked up to as as leaders and like bonefish permit and tarpon are the kings of these habitats. So I think then we, we kind of internalize that and say, okay, well, that’s my goal when I go to these places, those are the fish I want to catch. But there are some incredibly cool species. Um, mutton snapper. We get a lot of mutton snapper on the flats. They are, they can be incredibly challenging, really rewarding. They fight hard, they tail, they slide around with their backs out of the water. They can live in a bunch of different elements. You know, they’re they’re such a cool fish. That’s another fish that I think is I’m just as stoked catching them on snapper as anything. 00:30:59 Dave Stewart: What are a few of those? If you had to put. You’ve got the three. We talked about, what would be a few other ones you’d put that would be worthy of catching out there in the Bahamas. 00:31:07 Speaker 3: You know, I would throw horse eye jacks in there. They have these huge eyes there again, they can be, you know, they can light up and be like a really ferocious fish, but they can also be super discerning as well. You know, you don’t get a lot of shots at them. But when you do get chances, they’re really cool. Let’s see, we’ve been starting to, uh, to find some cobia that are trailing sharks. So cobia on tiger sharks on the flat has been such a cool, a cool new thing for us. And then we also do a program, a bait and switch style program down in the Bahamas where, you know, you’re throwing a hookless plug to rocky points to, to water that holds, I mean, holds all sorts of different stuff. You could have grouper coming up, African pompano coming up to the, to the plug and you know, baiting and switching and not even being on the flat. I just see it as such a, like there’s such an opportunity to catch all sorts of different species, yellow jacks or another one that there’s some of my favorite sashimi out there, you know, so there’s, you know, programs like that I think are really interesting because it just puts people in touch with a lot of different fish that they maybe haven’t had a have an interaction with yet. 00:32:17 Dave Stewart: That’s cool. What is the, you know, your program look like for Soulfly Lodge? Do you are you doing this throughout the year or when could. If people are interested in learning more. What’s that program look like? 00:32:29 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. Um, so we, you know, there are some, definitely some distinct changes to each season down there. And we operate from September, we’ll usually open up on the best, best moon in September right around the new moon. Really focus on, on permit through those kind of late summer months. The bone fishing is also a great that time of year. And we run September all the way through early July. We usually finish up the season with a fish for change camp or two, and then we’re just this season starting to offer some mid-summer permit opportunities, and we’re doing that operating at half capacity with our two top permit guides. So we’re only running two boats instead of four. This is just all about trying to create a really cool experience, not worrying about the financials, because running two boats as a lodge is not the way to make a profitable business by any means, but it is a really cool experience. You’ve got half as much pressure. You’ve got top guides out there. So that’s kind of our cadence September to to really kind of to the end of June. And then we might do some special trips in the summer focusing on permit. 00:33:39 Dave Stewart: That’s awesome. No, it’s great to hear. I feel like that is a part of it. Like you could, you could go bigger. I’m guessing you could build more and put more boats out there. But you found what is it about the four boats that you have there? You know, it’s just is it the right amount for that area? You’ve kind of decided based on your knowledge of kind of the fishery. 00:33:57 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and that was kind of one of the big as we were kind of visiting the berries and trying to put work into understanding the fishery. And, you know, is this a place that’s viable to have a fishing lodge operating like we are? You know, that was a really a big we thought a lot about that. And I think we wanted to start with four because it felt like we were, if anything, we could add a boat if we felt like we were, you know, we needed to. We felt like at four, we have a really good chance that we’re not going to get into this and say, you know what? We got to cut a boat or two, right? And at that point, you might as well not be doing a fishing lodge. You know, you might as well, you might as well pick something else to work on. And so with four, you know, we got into it. And, and I think the only times that it feels like the fisheries small were, you know, we need a little bit more space is when it’s blowing thirty and the weather’s the weather’s tough, you know, and I think, I think that’s honestly, I think anywhere I fished when the weather’s when it’s blowing thirty fisheries feel small because you just can’t move around, you know. 00:34:57 Dave Stewart: Right. 00:34:58 Speaker 3: And learning the tides there has been huge. So we really have really have learned a ton about the tides there. There is potential for big tidal swings in the berries or very small tidal swings. So it’s just it’s all about kind of learning, learning how the fishery operates at every different stage of the tide and, and making sure people are understanding. I think we’re pretty forward about the experience down there. And, and we really, in our fifth year, we now have just such a great, uh, a great base of clients that have kind of fallen in love with it. About half our clients, you know, about half of our clients every year now are, are repeat clients. So we’ve really kind of built this, uh, this core community that is just like fallen in love with the team, falling in love with the community. We, we keep a community in conservation fund going that lots of guests contribute to. And, and we get to do some cool stuff on the, on the island as well. 00:35:48 Dave Stewart: That’s awesome. Was it harder getting into this to build the lodge or to build the music events? 00:35:55 Speaker 3: Oh man. Oh boy. I might say the it’s funny because because Griz has really been like our. The the tip of the spear with the vents, and I’ve been the tip of the spear with the lodge. So I’d say lodge. 00:36:07 Dave Stewart: Yeah, right. The lodge. Yeah. 00:36:09 Speaker 3: Part of it for me is because it’s been, you know, it’s I moved there with my wife, with our eight week old son. 00:36:16 Dave Stewart: Oh, wow. So you. Yeah. You moved down to the during the season, you’re there with your family and young, young family for sure. 00:36:22 Speaker 3: And so we moved there with like, all right, we got to renovate this place and get it, get it ready and we’ve got to build a following and we’ve got to do, you know, literally everything A to Z and also host and be here to manage. And, uh, so for me, like I look back on my last five years as a little bit of a whirlwind in that sense, but, but they both certainly have their, have their challenges. It just takes a lot to run the lodge. We’ve got about we got about seventeen people on the team that, uh, that pull the experience together and the berries. 00:36:52 Dave Stewart: Oh, right. Yeah. You got a good team there. Gotcha. Wow. This is cool. So, I mean, it sounds like between the two, I mean, this is probably keeping you busy enough. Do you have any other event planning, uh, you know, plans in the future, are you going to build out more of these music events or are you going to stick to these two venues? 00:37:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we’re going to we’re going to try and add one, probably add one more in the next couple of years and just be really thoughtful on what that location is. And I think once we get to three, we’re just gonna, we’re gonna stick with that and we’re going to try and just, we’re not going to try and put those, those three on the back burner and, and just keep working on growing. I think we’re just going to keep trying to make those, those three core anchor events better. And, uh, you know, and just really listen, really try and add more depth to those experiences, go a lot deeper and just see where it takes us. 00:37:40 Dave Stewart: Are the people that are going to the lodge that are guests at the lodge. Are they also attending the music festival? Do you know about that? 00:37:48 Speaker 3: Yeah, we are getting some crossover, um, which is actually it’s been really, it’s been really cool. We had, um, you know, one short story, we had a couple that that came to the lodge, they actually, I believe they actually won it in an auction. 00:38:02 Dave Stewart: Oh, nice. 00:38:03 Speaker 3: At one of our events. And they came, they came down and, uh, you know, they had a blast. And then they, they saw what was going on in Charleston. They hopped on a plane and came down and we did another raffle and they won a trip to, to Soulfly Lodge again. Oh, wow. It’s been, it’s been really cool to kind of see some of this crossover. And honestly, they made such a big effort to come from Michigan to this event. Then they won a trip back to Soulfly Lodge and we were so, so excited just to see both of the two. 00:38:33 Dave Stewart: Uh, that’s amazing. 00:38:34 Speaker 3: Businesses kind of sharing some, uh, connection there. And, but yeah, I think that’s only going to grow for the future of just like, you know, we are doing little cross marketing at the, at the lodge, letting people know what’s going on with events. And, uh, so we’ll have some crossover. 00:38:50 Dave Stewart: That’s cool that, that must feel good. I know that we do some of that too, where we give away, we do some events and we’re giving away trips. I, in fact, we just did went up to Scott Lake Lodge for Northern Pike up in Saskatchewan and. And Paul Plumb shout out to Paul. He won that trip. And you know, it’s pretty cool. Because it’s random, you know. So you don’t know who is going to be the winner. And it just turns out that Paul was this great guy. You know, we had this epic trip and we’re going to be fishing together. So and actually, Paul’s already planning a trip where we’re going to go out and fish for steelhead. We’re going to take the lodge. The lodge owner out for a fishing to our home water, you know what I mean. And so, you know, I feel like it’s this really it’s tough to find, you know, kind of it feels like in our space, you kind of somebody into fly fishing, they’re kind of it feels like they’re good people. Do you find that too with some with your events? 00:39:37 Speaker 3: I do too. I mean, I think it’s just, you know, I feel like you’re just a lot of time, you’re just finding these great people that are just, you know, they’re connecting on the water. I mean, it’s, I, I fully agree. I love this industry. I never want to be anywhere else. 00:39:53 Dave Stewart: When it comes to high quality flies that truly elevate your fly fishing game. Drift Hook dot com is the trusted source you need. I’ve been using drift hooks expertly selected flies for a while now and they never disappoint. Plus, they stand behind their products with a money back guarantee. Are you ready to upgrade your fly box? Head over to Drift Hook dot com today and use the code swing at checkout to get fifteen percent off your first order. That’s drift hook. D r I f t h o o k dot com. Don’t miss out if Belize is on your bucket list for a trip. Take a look at Blue Bonefish Lodge. You’ll be fishing more than four hundred square miles of flats right along the Belize Barrier Reef. 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Um, they’re doing some good stuff in the space, obviously. So as we start to get into this, tell me this, this is kind of the rapid fire round. What is for you on these events? You know, I think success is a good way to look at it, right? What is success? How does that when you look at this Boston event coming up, how do you gauge what is a successful event? 00:41:43 Speaker 3: To me, it’s two things I think, you know, is the vibe there, which I think is really hard to put your finger on. 00:41:50 Dave Stewart: Yeah, you got to be there for that, right? You got to get the feel, the vibe. 00:41:54 Speaker 3: You got to be there. And I think that if the vibe is right, which is such a vague thing, it’s such a feeling. I think that is the biggest litmus test. I think if we’re looking back and people are like, wow, that was that was special. That felt like something different. I think that is in a nutshell what we’re going for. And of course, like we, we want to be able to do another one the next year. So I think having, you know, the next piece of success, I think comes with, you know, just like, did we draw the folks in to make this worthy of doing it the next year? And that’s why we were so happy to sell out in Charleston in May. You know, we were like, oh, amazing. Like this is like, that gives you now the horsepower to keep going. 00:42:37 Dave Stewart: How soon do these sell out? Is this is somebody listening now? And they’re really excited about maybe the Boston event or the next one. Is it important to get on it right away or do they have time? 00:42:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it is important to get on it early. But, you know, I think a lot of people these days are making their decisions a couple weeks out. Yeah. 00:42:55 Dave Stewart: Right. Right. 00:42:57 Speaker 3: I think you can’t I think that is just the nature of it. I mean, Charleston, like there were so many ticket sales on the day of the event of like. 00:43:05 Dave Stewart: Oh, cool. It’s not like a trip. It’s not like booking a lodge trip, right? Where people are booking out a year or more in advance. 00:43:12 Speaker 3: Exactly. And I think especially to a lot of the folks that are focused on the music are like, oh, hey, we got, we got it’s a nice weekend. I know this, uh, I know these bands that are gonna be playing here, boom. I’m just going to show up and buy a ticket at the door. So, you know, we, I think you’re hoping to like draw as much of your core community in as you can, like early on. If you’re a part of that community, we’d love to see like some pre ticket sales and just see that there’s some momentum. But also we are, we totally know that it’s going to be the last two weeks is really going to be, you know, at least half of the sales, um, on tickets, if not more. 00:43:46 Dave Stewart: Do you guys have some adult beverages at the, at the music festival? 00:43:50 Speaker 3: We do. Yeah. We’re going to have, uh, we’re going to have, you know, we had some really cool collaborations in Charleston. We had Oxbow down there. Our good buddy Tim Adams had some beautiful beers to drink. There were all sorts of other great libations there. Cisco Brewers is, is, you know, we’re partnering at, uh, at their location, who they’ve been just such a powerhouse of putting out awesome microbrew beer. You know, they formed in Nantucket and really cool, really cool, uh, vibe and, uh, and yeah, so we’ll have all sorts of, you know, that’s another big piece of it is just having locally brewed beer, having local foods and just kind of have that try and tie into kind of like our, our marine story as well. 00:44:33 Dave Stewart: Picking brands and partners that are, that are, have that conservation mindset too. Is that, is that something you go into when you’re looking at some of the event partners? 00:44:41 Speaker 3: We do definitely. I think, you know, I think that’s just another, another area where you can, you know, you can be, uh, you can be wise. so you know. Nemo is another, another brand. An outdoor brand makes tent sleeping bags, backpacks. They’re gonna they just signed on. They just have a incredible sustainability and giving back to the community. So they’re, you know, they’re a local company up here in New Hampshire. I’m in Maine, but they’re, they’re really close to me and over the border in New Hampshire. So I think picking, you know, picking again, it’s just like, I think we just want to. It just makes sense. You know, I think we’re trying to operate these events in a certain way and picking, uh, picking brands and sponsors that, that see the world the same way. I think just gives us all a little bit more power to the mission. 00:45:25 Dave Stewart: Love it. You mentioned community quite a bit on this. Um, what would be your tip on community building a community? It sounds like you guys have done a good job with that. What would you tell somebody if they’re struggling a little bit at, you know, building their community? 00:45:38 Speaker 3: You know, I think not being afraid to be really forward about who you are and, and how you feel about the world and, and what you care and what your values are. I think having a really clear sense of what is going to attract and draw community is a huge part of building that community. And, you know, I think about as I started, I started guiding, you know, you’re trying to build a book of clients and you know, what makes you different? I mean, okay, I’m a striped bass guide. Like, I don’t want to lead with that. I’m just a striped bass guide because I’m competing against everybody. The bait fishermen, the, you know, and tackle the I wanted to be very specific about like, what is the community that I’m building? I’m building a community around anglers that are watching closely to the changes that are happening on the water and they’re willing to, um, to take, take action to, to speak up in public comment periods and protect what we have. And also we’re, we’re fishing in very specific ways. You know, we’re, we’re sight fishing in shallow water for striped bass. You know, we’re trying to, we’re trying to have a light touch on the fishery fish in a myriad of different elements. So I think, you know, being again, I guess kind of summing that up is just being really clear about what your values are and why you’re building this community. And I think that’s what we’ve tried to take into, uh, the Soulfly co events is, you know, be forward about the, uh, the ethos. And I think that’s going to more easily attract your crowd. 00:47:06 Dave Stewart: Perfect. Well, take us out of here. You mentioned also the Saltwater Guides Association. Maybe give us a little insight on that. Are they. What areas are they covering? You know, because I mean, when you think saltwater, right, you’ve got a lot of saltwater around the world. Describe that. Is this is this regional? How do they break up? How does that group break up things around the world? 00:47:26 Speaker 3: Yeah. So we’re we’re really focused from Maine to the Texas coast. So, you know, all the marine elements from from Maine to the to the Texas coast, essentially, you know, and we work really heavily on, you know, one of the things that that we can affect a big change on is overfishing management of our stocks. The science that is, is created and goes into a part of managing these stocks. So Asghar is is all about science advocacy and education. And so we we were working on striped bass, um, Atlantic bonito, false albacore, Jack crevalle um, redfish and in multiple, multiple states, Jes tarpon, all sorts of different species. And, you know, it really kind of stems from we’ve got a, uh, we’ve got a team of about ten consultants that are all experts in their field, whether they’re, whether they’re scientists or fishing guides, you know, they just bring kind of this on the water approach to, to what we’re doing. And, and, you know, there’s a lot changing in our fisheries in general. But one thing that we all have power of is, is overfishing and Management and and being more aggressive to protect the fish that we have left is one of the, you know, one of the most essential levers that we can actually affect change on, you know, changing environment, you know, warming waters, climate change, all those, all those things are much bigger things that we that are harder to affect short term change on, but adding, you know, funding science that is going to go into a stock assessment that will actually save more fish or have us manage them more sustainably, is really kind of all about what, what ASG is founded on. And just a real quick example, you know, false albacore, their, their fish that is, you know, they’re, they’re incredibly important to so much of the East Coast. And we didn’t have a lick of science on them. So ASG launched the Jack project. And we or I mean, excuse me. Um, well, that’s a different project that’s very similar, but the false albacore project, the Alb project. And we started tagging fish with telemetry tags. We’re able to track track to particular Albie going from Nantucket to Key West in about fifty five days. And you’re having all these light bulb moments go off of like, this is a shared stock. This is a shared stock of fish from Cape Cod down to Florida. So if if these fish are being harvested in Florida for, for bait, those are the same. Those are the same fish that somebody’s paying a thousand dollars a day to a guy in Cape Cod to go out and try and catch and release. And, you know, you’re just realizing like the impact that, okay, these fish, there’s no science on them. There’s no management for them. Let’s start getting some management for these fish to just put some guardrails in place so we don’t see just another species start to slide and become unavailable. And I think once these species go away, people lose their connection to the coast. They lose their connection to the water, they choose a different activity. And so I think it’s so essential to maintain this abundance in our saltwater fisheries so we can just keep that connection to the water. So, you know, that’s been pretty cool with the the project that has rolled up into now we have management in multiple states for, for false albacore, which never they’ve never had any management. And now we’ve got some great guardrails in place. We can watch this species closer, protect them for the future. So it’s cool work. It’s really important work. And it’s really it’s all done with, uh, with the resource and the fish put first. It’s not about like, um, it’s not about guides, it’s not about anglers, it’s about abundance in the water. And when we have abundance, we all win. We all get access to, to beautiful experience. 00:51:21 Dave Stewart: Yeah, that’s a great example. Another species that we were fishing for, and this might not apply directly, but we were up in Newfoundland fishing for Atlantic salmon. And I know there’s a long history there of that. But is that a species? Because that’s obviously a anadromous species that spends life in the salt. I’m guessing somewhere in that area. Is that something that is just not a species on the list, or just a different deal than what you guys focus on? 00:51:45 Speaker 3: Yeah, we haven’t done a ton of Atlantic salmon work. And I think big, big reason is that, you know, we are we do have to have some focus. And so we’re really focused on kind of the fisheries around the US. I think it’s areas where we’ve got the relationships and the management machine. We’ve got the advocates. And, you know, they’re unfortunately an endangered species in the US and you can’t fish for them. The only couple rivers that Atlantic salmon are left in in Maine are the Kennebec and the Penobscot. And you know, there’s some really cool I think the most important work being done for for those fish is the is dam removal, which there’s been success on the Penobscot and the Kennebec has the Nature Conservancy bought the four dams on the Kennebec. So it’s really exciting that those four dams are going to come out and give Atlantic salmon a huge, huge leg up. So there’s some of those are, you know, we want to work on stuff that we can affect change on. And salmon are a tricky one. Salmon. 00:52:42 Dave Stewart: Yeah, they’re a tricky one. 00:52:43 Speaker 3: Tricky one. 00:52:44 Dave Stewart: Yeah. They’re tricky. Yeah. And it wasn’t a big range. You know you mentioned the range from the north all the way down to Texas. I mean Atlantic salmon. I think their range is kind of more north right, than New York. And it’s not as big of a range as all these other species you’re talking about for sure. 00:52:59 Speaker 3: Yeah. So I mean, and I actually was a part of helping to start a, a lodge up in Quebec a few years ago called Gaspé Coastal. And so I ended. 00:53:07 Dave Stewart: Up right, right. Sure. We heard them. 00:53:09 Speaker 3: I ended up getting this, this wild education on Atlantic salmon. 00:53:13 Dave Stewart: Oh, you did. So you’ve got some knowledge here. 00:53:15 Speaker 3: And so I’ve built a lot and, you know, you know, built a lot of knowledge over the past five years on that. And, you know, the interactions with striped bass up there, they have got their native population of striped bass that are. 00:53:26 Dave Stewart: Oh, right. Predators, predators up their predators. 00:53:29 Speaker 3: But they’ve lived together in unison for millennia. Um, but, you know, it’s like once there’s It starts to be, uh, abundance falls and there’s competing stocks that have lived in harmony for thousands of years. You know, it’s, they’re an easy scapegoat. And so it’s but, you know, I think it really is a lot of it’s a lot of it’s really about habitat. It’s about climate change. You know, I mean, years of low water, there’s just a lot of things that are just huge, big picture problems that, uh, I feel for those fish. 00:53:59 Dave Stewart: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. That’s one of those species. Like all, they all need love, you know, and I think we got to keep on it and, uh, and hope, hope we can, uh, you know, make some small changes. I think you’re right. The fishing, though, is a big part of it. Whether that’s in Alaska where they’re talking about ocean trawlers, you know, it’s, it’s a big part because the fishing, you know, if you if you don’t have the fish returning, that’s a big part. What is the biggest fishing impacts for those species you’re talking about in your area for the focus? Like, are there big boats out there netting fish or describe that? Do you know what the number one impact is? 00:54:33 Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of it. You know, I think it’s removing more fish than than the fisheries can sustain. And I think our management processes in the US have, you know, whether it’s a number of the different commissions or councils and poor science that goes into it a lot of times is, you know, there’s a lot of special interests out there that even when the populations are sliding, they find ways to continue harvesting and harvesting at unsustainable levels. So, you know, take striped bass, for example. I mean, it’s a when that fishery is booming, it’s, uh, you know, it’s an eight to ten billion dollar fishery with recreational anglers being able to, when it’s healthy, be able to take a step onto a rock or a beach and have a good chance of catching a striper. You know, when there’s abundance for them. But we’ve watched overfishing occur for the last ten, twelve years. You know, we’ve watched this slide on the stock and we’ve been raising the flag and we’ve been sounding the alarms and helping the community kind of pick apart the science and understand the stock assessments and try and get engaged to help. And a lot of time we’re raising public comment that is in support for, you know, increased regulations, killing less fish. But, you know, you’re just up against so many different players and managers that managers are getting a lot of pressure to continue harvesting. So you’re even if we get the public comment says that, hey, we all want to take a reduction. It doesn’t happen all the time. And so it’s simple. It’s a lot of people point to these complicated problems with striped bass. It’s just we’re killing too many. Then, uh, then the stock can replenish. And we’ve also had some failed spawns in the past seven years. So we’ve had very, very poor spawns, you know, I mean, it’s, and a lot of people are able to go out and catch their biggest striped bass of their life. I mean, we caught a handful of fish over forty inches yesterday. Incredible experience. But you have to understand there’s not a small fish to go after. And that’s all we could have corrected this. Managers could have corrected this years ago, but we just kind of have a tendency to just like milking these stocks until, until they get to a position where they really have a hard time recovering. So, and a lot of that is like, you know, how you fix that? I think it’s continuing to have like managers in place that care that truly want to manage these stocks for abundance, for all of recreational anglers, for commercial anglers, for people that want to catch and keep a fish. You know, there’s ways that we can all operate and not have this feeling of scarcity, but it’s just about proactive management and, uh, and a lot of times we just don’t get that. It’s a little crazy. 00:57:11 Dave Stewart: Yeah. We gotta keep up the fight, right? That’s the great thing is that that’s why having people like you, ambassadors with Patagonia and everybody else out there, we just got to keep fighting. You know, it’s those small wins that actually, I think a lot of people don’t realize it. You know, you get down, you’re like, oh, you know, what can I do? I’m just one person. But I feel like it is those small wins that you just keep going and you know, and then you get a bigger win. And then that builds. Do you find that that that’s some of the stuff you’re seeing out there with your group? 00:57:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think you really just need, you need some hope to, uh, you know, to continue asking people to step up. And it’s really demoralizing when we have a public comment period and people step up and, and we don’t get the result, even though the, the comments are there. So I think, yeah, you definitely like getting these wins. I think false albacore. That was a big win. Jack Crevalle that’s another one that has the potential to be a really, uh, another it’s a fish that is, uh, a household name in the US and in the southeast and Texas and Louisiana. And a lot of people are watching those fish disappear. No science on them, no management. That’s another one where like, holy smokes, we can learn about these fish. We can learn about their habits, understand that there are shared stock, understand like spawning habits and, and protect them really effectively. And once people start seeing that abundance come back, I think, you know, that is an incredible model, I think for, uh, giving anglers, like the proof is in the pudding of, uh, you know, we did the science, we did the advocacy. We’ve got some of the, some proper management to ensure that these fish can stay abundant. And I think those are the biggest things, you know, if you can accomplish that kind of stuff, you’re like, all right, cool. We’ve got we got something here. 00:58:54 Dave Stewart: Nice. Love it. Nice. Kyle. Well, I think we can leave it there for today. We’ll definitely stay in touch with you. And I think we could send everybody out to Soulfly dot com. They can check in if they want to support what we’re talking about. This conservation. They can go to your event, and that’ll be a good way to get some music, uh, you know, get some connection and support conservation. So yeah, I appreciate all your time today. Thanks for everything. 00:59:14 Speaker 3: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on. It was a great chat. I appreciate it, Dave. 00:59:19 Dave Stewart: All right. Uh, I think we hit on that pretty well. It’s all about community and we know that that’s important. That’s important to you. And if you’re interested in joining a community check in with Kyle, definitely would love to hear if anybody’s interested in this event. I think this might be something we can build a meetup around with our community as well. So check in with me, Dave at web dot com, or go to webflow dot com slash pro to join our community and, and get access and help us guide where we’re going next on trips and events. We got a big one this week as far as episodes. Paul Plumb is going to be on this week. Paul is the winner. We mentioned in this episode he is the winner of the trip to Salt Lake Lodge. This is where we went for Northern Pike Lake, Trout and Grayling. And then Paul is just a great guy. He is a steelhead angler, spey caster through and through and, and I’m excited to share that episode of Paul’s experience. And, and we’re going to be doing some good stuff with Paul coming up this year. All right. That’s beyond the giveaway. As always. We try to support conservation on all of our events. So if you have a conservation partner we haven’t touched with or talked to yet, please send me an email, Dave at web dot com and I’ll work on getting that together for you. I want to leave you with this today. If the vibe is right, that in a nutshell, is what we’re going for. There you go. If the vibe is right, that is what we’re going for. Shout out to Kyle on this one and we’re excited to, uh, connect with you. So if you haven’t yet, if you’re new to the podcast, please send me an email Dave at web dot com and I’d love to hear where you’re coming from. And I hope you have a great morning, great afternoon or evening, wherever in this country you are. I appreciate you for listening today and we’ll talk to you on that next one. 01:01:06 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly Swing Fly Fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wet fly dot com.