In this episode, we have Jess Westbrook, founder of the Mayfly Project, an expert in the world of youth fly fishing and giving back in a big way. From mentoring foster kids to helping lead one of the most dominant youth teams in fly fishing. This conversation is full of inspiration, tactical tips and techniques and find out why top anglers adapt quickly to changing conditions.
By the end of this episode, you’ll understand why a little slack in your nymph drift and you’re gonna get a fresh take on your nymphing myths and techniques so you have more success this year.
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Show Notes with Jess Westbrook on The Mayfly Project
01:50 – Jess was on the podcast in episode 194, where he talked about the Mayfly project. The Mayfly project helps foster kids get better at fly fishing.
02:06 – Josh Miller was on the podcast in episode #27 of the Traveled podcast here. Josh Miller is one of the great competitive anglers and the coach behind back-to-back world championships.
03:17 – The Mayfly Project, reflecting on the rapid growth of this Project, a nonprofit he co-founded to mentor foster children through fly fishing.
05:18 – Every time he was out fishing, his anxious thoughts and stress would disappear, providing him sense of calm and clarity. Jess notes the C.A.L.L. group that helped him with the idea to start the Mayfly Project. The C.A.L.L. also supports foster kids in Arkansas.
“Nothing Perfect Lasts Forever Except in our Memories.” A River Runs Through It”
06:01: Jess mentioned that The Mayfly Project. As of the latest update, the program operates between 62 to 64 projects across 32 U.S states in the United Kingdom.
07:19 – He managed Team USA Fly Fishing in recent years. We discuss the crossover from the Mayfly Project to his work with Team USA Youth.
08:23 – Gordon Vanderpool is a youth coach and runs Euro nymphing clinics. You can find Gordon at his website here.
10:15 – Team USA Youth swept the individual medals—gold, silver, and bronze—at the 2024 World Championship in the Czech Republic, and they’re now preparing for the 2025 event in Idaho Falls, aiming for a historic three-peat on home soil.
12:48 – He mentioned that Josh Miller, the head coach of Team USA Youth, is not only a high-level river angler but also someone with a wealth of experience, having coached the team through multiple world championships with a calm, confident leadership style.
14:05 – Jess shared that some of the hardest parts of building The Mayfly Project were controlling the boar during lake sessions, creating sustainable programs, and building everything from scratch.
14:52 – He emphasized that “One million percent, the most important part of all of this is our volunteers“.
Check The MayFly Project to see more.
16:44 – Jess shared that many of the kids they work with are living in group homes, including Marine Group Homes, and often have very little support. He mentioned that these kids are sometimes placed in rural towns where they don’t know anyone, emphasizing the importance of consistent mentorship and the role The Mayfly Project plays in giving them meaningful connection and guidance.
18:52 – Zoom meetings with the kids, where they bring in great anglers like Devin Olsen to teach and answer questions. These sessions give the youth participants a chance to interact directly with top-level anglers, learn advanced techniques, and stay connected to the community outside of their local projects.
20:45 – They recently brought on a new team member, Loren Williams, who was the world champion last year. He highlighted how exciting it is to have someone of her caliber on board, helping strengthen The Mayfly Project’s mission and bringing even more expertise to the kids they serve.
21:12 – Jess explained that they find new kids through state organizations and child welfare systems, as well as through word of mouth. Many referrals come from social workers or foster parents who’ve heard about The Mayfly Project and want to get their kids involved in something positive and consistent.
25:32 – Jess expressed some frustration over the common misconception that euro nymphing is just “high sticking“, saying that idea can drive him a little insane. He reflected on how much the technique has evolved, contrasting it with how ten years ago, anglers used heavy setups like Maxima Chameleon with 25-pound butt sections, whereas today’s methods involve much lighter leaders and more range.
27:08 – Jess emphasized the importance of versatility in competitive fly fishing, noting that during a competition in the Czech Republic, kids caught fish using a variety of methods—tightline nymphing, streamer fishing, and dry flies. He pushed back against the notion that competitions are just about euro nymphing, saying that to succeed.
Watch The Tight Line Advantage for Nymphs, Indicators, Streamers, and Dry Dropper to learn more.
29:32 – Jess recounted a funny story from his first lake competition, where he shared a boat with Josh Miller. He showed up thinking Josh would fish first, only to be surprised when Josh asked, “Where’s all your stuff?”—revealing that both of them were supposed to fish at the same time. Jess admitted, “I didn’t even know,” and laughed about the mix-up.
34:50 – He shared that both The Mayfly Project and his role with the Youth Fly Fishing Team hold a special place in his heart, describing them as the two things he loves most. He stepped away from guiding to spend more time with his family, and now enjoys traveling and working with both programs.
Watch the Fly Casting Lessons on How to teach kids to Fly Cast
38:38 – Jess acknowledged the pressure youth anglers face during national and world championships. He noted that both he and Josh maintain a relaxed demeanor, which helps set a calming tone for the team. When a young angler had a rough start at nationals, Jess offered reassurance, saying, “You’re a great fisherman; you’re going to do great tomorrow,” emphasizing the importance of positive affirmations and emotional support in building resilience.
Check it out here on how they started.
39:27 – Looking ahead to the 2026 World Championships in Ireland, which will be primarily lake-based, Jess reflected that many current team members will have aged out, and a newer team will take their place, possibly shifting how they respond to pressure. He even admitted that the kids likely handle it better than he would.
41:24- Jess responded to a common question about how The Mayfly Project stays connected with kids after their outings, explaining that due to the nature of the foster care system, it’s often difficult to track where the children go. To manage expectations and build trust, the program establishes clear boundaries from the beginning, offering five structured outings with a defined start and end.
44:59 – He stressed the importance of selecting the right lead mentors and ensuring that each project is sustainable and well-prepared, often planning a year in advance. Jess expressed his deep appreciation for the mentors, saying that seeing them receive recognition, such as doing interviews or being featured in the media, brings him great joy.
Here’s one of the MayFly Project mentors’ interviews.
48:20 – Jess outlined the leadership structure and evolving approach of the USA Youth Fly Fishing Team. John Ford, serving as president, oversees fundraising and financial aspects. Josh Miller, the head coach, brings extensive experience from his tenure with Fly Fishing Team USA and has led the youth team to multiple world championship victories.
Here’s the detailed information on the team’s mission and leadership structure.
50:29 – Jess highlighted the growing demand and volunteer support for youth fly fishing clinics, particularly in Pennsylvania, where the number of kids attending has expanded from just 6–8 to around 30, often requiring a cap due to venue constraints.
50:59 – He also confirmed being present at the Czech Republic competition, where Team USA competed, setting the stage for a conversation about standout moments or “plays of the week” from the event, drawing a parallel to sports highlights like a LeBron James dunk to capture the excitement of the competition.
Here’s more information about Pennsylvania Clinic.
52:57 – Jess reflected on how small, technical nuances in fly fishing, such as subtle adjustments to drift or line presentation, can lead to significant differences in competition outcomes. He expressed pride in the youth team and Coach Josh Miller, acknowledging that figuring out those fine details during the event in the Czech Republic was key.
You can find Jess Westbrook on Instagram and the Mayfly Project Website
Top 7 Fly Fishing Tips from Jess Westbrook
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- Add a Little Slack to your Drift – Introducing slight slack in your nymph drift can make your presentation more natural, leading to more takes, especially in pressured waters.
- Don’t be afraid to go Light – Modern Euro-Nymphing often uses ultra-light leaders and tiny flies. Heavier gear isn’t always the answer.
- Fish the Water Column, Not just the bottom – If fish are consistently hitting your top nymph, they’re likely feeding higher. So, adjust accordingly.
- Practice the Lakes – Stillwater is the “great equalizer” in competitions. Master boat control, retrieve techniques, and line setups to excel.
- Preparation is Everything – Organize your gear, create practice schedules, and hold planning meetings (like Team USA does) to stay ahead of the game.
- Don’t Overthink the Win, Get the First Fish – Organize your gear, create practice schedules, and hold planning meetings to stay ahead of the game.
- Fly Fishing Isn’t Just Technical, It’s Emotional – From helping to heal anxiety to building confidence in kids, fly fishing can change lives. Approach it with purpose and the heart.
Mayfly Project Videos Noted in the Show
Read the Full Podcast Transcript Below
Episode Transcript
1 (10s): In today’s episode, we’re hanging out with someone who’s deep in the world of youth fly fishing and giving back in a big way from mentoring foster kids to helping lead one of the most dominant youth teams in fly fishing. This conversation is full of inspiration and tactical tips. By the end of this episode, you’ll understand why a little slack in your nymph drift can be a game changer, and you’re gonna get a fresh take on Euro nipping myths and techniques, so you have more success this year. Hey, I’m Dave host of the Travel Podcast. I’ve been fly fishing since I was a little kid, grew up around Little Fly Shop and Creative, one of the largest fly fishing podcasts out there. Jess Westbrook, one of the key players behind Team USA’s youth Fly fishing domination in recent years, is here to break down what it takes to succeed on the water, especially when you’re showing up somewhere brand new stream. 1 (54s): You’re gonna find out how to research a lake, what to look for before you wet align, and how the best anglers adjust when things are shifting. Plus, you’re gonna get his three factors for success in Stillwater competitions. Why Lakes are considered the great equalizer, and what kind of leader setup and tactics can give you the edge. This episode of travel is presented by Yellowstone Teton territory, where you can explore great fishing, hunting and world championships this year. All right, let’s get into it. Here he is, Jess Westbrook from the mayfly project.org. How you doing, Jess? 2 (1m 29s): Hey, I’m doing great, Dave. Thank you so much for having me back. Yeah, 1 (1m 32s): This is, this is gonna be good to catch up with you. I don’t have it in front of me. I’ll, I’ll get a link out there in the show notes to the episode we did the first time we heard about the Mayfly project, this amazing program that you created for, we’ll talk more about that for the youth and how that’s going. I’m sure it’s going great. And then also, team USA, you’re part of the youth team, USA and I didn’t real realize that at the time, and so it’s gonna be cool to catch up. We’ve been, we just had Josh Mill on, which was amazing, and, and we’ve, I think we’ve got, drew Bone is gonna be our first actual youth. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He’s gonna be our first youth member who’s gonna be on the PI unless he has a guide drip. He said if he has a guide drip this, you know, this week he’ll have to cancel, but I’m like, Hey, I’m good with that. 2 (2m 10s): Gotcha. 1 (2m 11s): But, but yeah. What’s been going on with you since the last, it’s probably been a couple years since we chatted last, what’s been new with you in the Mayfly? 2 (2m 17s): Yeah, I mean, you know, honestly, Dave, like may fly project’s amazing. You know, we just continue to grow. We’ve got a, a few new employees that have kind of come on in the last 12 months or so, and Emily and Joanna, and they’ve been amazing, right? Like, we’ve got a lot more help, man. I mean, honestly, like, you know, just trying to get a whole bunch of foster kids out and create those awesome river experiences and connect them with nature, you know, so it’s just super busy and we’re blowing and going, yeah. 1 (2m 49s): Going for it. What is, for maybe people that had didn’t hear the first episode, maybe just describe what it is, what you guys do with the Mayfly project and, and I, and I’m looking at it now. It was, yeah, it was about four years ago since you’ve been on, I think, episode, episode 1 94. So yeah. What, give us a little summary of what, of what you guys do there. 2 (3m 6s): Yeah. So at the Mayfly project, you know, we mentor foster children through fly fishing. So we’ll basically take those foster children out on five outings and we’ll teach ’em everything from casting to, we have a conservation piece, they’ll earn buttons, you know, much like Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. And then we’ll take ’em on a final outing, their very last outing, and we will outfit them with everything to fly fish on their own. So we’ll give ’em their own fly rod, their own pack, their own flies. So basically, you know, we’re, you know, I find a lot of healing through fly fishing, and so we’re hoping to provide these kids with all of the knowledge and the gear to do that on their own and get out and, you know, hopefully connect with nature and use that as a, as a healing tool for all the trauma and, you know, anxiety and stuff that comes from being in foster care. 1 (3m 57s): Where did this original idea, I can’t remember when our last chat, how did this come to be? ’cause you’re kind of the, the big, the person behind this whole idea, right? Did, did it just come to your head, or what does, how’d that happen? 2 (4m 8s): Yeah, so, you know, it all started about 10 years ago. My first son case was born, and when Case was born, I started experiencing like, crazy anxiety. It was something I’d never really experienced in the past, or maybe I had traces of it, but not anything like this. And I had a, a friend who was a, a local fly fishing guy that I really looked up to. He’s probably 10 years older than me, and he, you know, kept getting me out on the river. So I’ve, I fly fished my entire life. Like I’ve got it in Alaska, I’ve done all the things. But once that kind of, that anxiety hit, I kind of stopped for just a little bit. And then Chris kind of really, you know, was like, Hey, go fishing. 2 (4m 49s): And I kind of noticed every time I got on the river that, you know, my, all my anxious thoughts, you know, my stress, like all seemed to disappear while I was out on the river. And I was looking for a way to give back. And we were at church one Sunday and there was an organization there by the name of the call, which is an Arkansas organization, and they were talking about foster children. And, you know, at that time I was a new dad and I was like, man, I just, I can’t imagine, you know, a parent, you know, or, or those kids being in that situation, I guess. And, you know, I was like, man, I looked at Laura my life and I was like, that’s what I wanna do, is I wanna start mentoring foster kids, you know? 2 (5m 32s): So, you know, that was, we got our 5 0 1 C3 in 2015. So this is our, our 10th year. Oh, 1 (5m 40s): Wow. 2 (5m 41s): And, you know, it’s been a, it’s been a, it’s been an awesome 10 years. Right now we have, you know, probably 62 to 64 projects in like 32 states and the United Kingdom. Wow. So we, we’ve grown a whole lot. You know, we really focus on, you know, one-to-one mentor to mentee ratio, right. Like, getting these kids out and just, you know, I, I kind of tell people all the time, like, this is all about fly fishing, but it has nothing to do with fly fishing, if that makes sense. Right. Like, just getting, getting those kids out and getting ’em on the river does great things for all of us. 1 (6m 13s): Yeah. I always, when I hear that, I always think of the river runs through it, you know, at Norman McLean, how he said, you know, the, the, the book, I think Jack Dennis, when we talked to him, Jack was telling us the story of when he was chatting with Norman or that whole story, and he said, he was asking Jack about the river runs through it. Like, did you read the book? You know, this is way back in the day when it first came out. And Jack was like, Jack was like, yeah, I read it and it was a great fly fishing book. And he’s like, no, you don’t get it. Nobody gets it. It’s not a book about fly fishing, you know, it’s, or it’s not, it’s not a movie about fly fishing. Right. It’s about the, the brother, the family. Right. You know, and it feels like that. I hear when you say that it’s the same thing. This is not about fly fishing, it’s about the kids and, and the outdoors and That’s right. 1 (6m 53s): Health 2 (6m 54s): A 1 (6m 54s): Hundred percent. Yeah. Cool. Well, what was the connection to, I didn’t realize on the youth. I mean, obviously it’s an easy connection now when you think about it, kind of, you’re still working with youth and I’m sure there’s crossover stuff there, but how did that, have you been connected to team USA for a while? 2 (7m 10s): So really, you know, I did a few, like competitions and stuff when, you know, probably like 10 or 12 years ago. So I was fishing in some of the team USA regionals and stuff like that, and trying to get better. Right. And so, even though I was a fishing guy myself, I would go over and I would hire like Josh Miller. So I flew up to Pennsylvania and fished with Josh a couple times, you know, ’cause I think that he’s, you know, 1 (7m 37s): Yeah, 2 (7m 37s): For sure. Like, you know, one of the best river wranglers in the us. And so I, I flew up there and fished with Josh for a couple time, like a couple, you know, a couple days each time. And then went over and another team, USA coach, his name is Gordon Vanderpool. So I flew over to North Carolina and spent like a week with Gordon, you know, just trying to like hone in all of these skills. And, you know, Josh and Gordon are friends and, you know, we kind of started becoming friends, and I was like, Hey, we should do some you ing clinics. And they were like, all right. So basically we started hosting these clinics around the us So we’ve done them in Connecticut, we’ve done it in Colorado, we’ve done it in Oklahoma. 2 (8m 17s): You know, so we’ve kind of, you know, kind of hit those places and started doing these Euro Nipping clinics. And then last year, probably in, you know, probably March or so, Josh called me and he was like, Hey man, we need, you know, a manager for the youth team. You know, it, that would be, you’d be amazing if you came over and helped. And so, so I was like, yeah, sure, I can do that. So, you know, I’m really, I’m really good at kind of like organization and the business side of things, you know? And so, so yeah. So that’s kind of how I ended up with Team USA. They needed somebody to, to help take the kids to the Czech Republic. 2 (8m 58s): And, you know, Josh asked me to join on, and I was like, yeah, I’d love to, you know, of course I had to convince my wife that I’m gonna be gone for two weeks to Czech Republic, you know, but that, that was the hardest part of my decision. Yeah, 1 (9m 9s): That is the hardest part. Yeah. It’s always the travel, right? Is it is a lot of fun, but you’re away from family, so it’s challenging. 2 (9m 16s): That’s right. That’s 1 (9m 17s): Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So you’re out there, so you’re helping with the team us, and the cool thing is, is that it seems like you’ve joined, or, you know, you’re part of what’s become this epic team, right? They think they’ve, you, you guys have won two now two world championships. Is that, is that true? 2 (9m 33s): That’s right. That’s right. So yeah, so they won in 2023 in Bosnia. They won a gold medal, a team gold medal, and I think Drew Bone, right. Won, won an individual gold. And then last year, Czech Republic, the kids won the team gold, and then they swept the individual medals. So they, they won, you know, gold, silver, and bronze individually too. And yeah, so, you know, it is, this is this, this coming up world championships is gonna be held in Idaho Falls, Idaho. So we’re really excited about that. And yeah, we hope, you know, hope the boys can, can get after it this one 1 (10m 11s): Too. Yeah. And you think it’s like the perfect setup because they’ve got two world championships? I’m not even sure. I don’t think that’s ever been done right. With Team USA, any, any at any level? I don’t think, 2 (10m 21s): I’m not sure. I think like, so before Josh’s coach, there was a guy probably like 10 years ago, his name was Paul Bork, and he was the coach for a little bit. And I think they may have Oh wow. Been three, but I’m not sure if they were back to back, you know? But yeah, this will, this will definitely be a great accomplishment, especially for Josh as like the head coach, you know? So I’m super proud of him. He does a great job with the kids and, you know, he really relates to ’em. And like I said, he’s, he’s an amazing coach. So Josh has definitely done a, a great 1 (10m 54s): Job. Yeah, no, this is exciting because I think, and we’ve been doing some connecting and had a few episodes, and I think the fact that it’s in, you know, Idaho Falls and on the Famous Rivers, right? The Henrys Fork, and it’s gonna be pretty awesome to see. And the cool thing about the way it works here is that, I’ve learned this just on some of the episodes, is that, you know, they don’t close down the rivers here. So the South fork, the snake will not be closed down. It’s gonna be, there’s gonna be other anglers out there just fishing regularly while they’re doing the tournament. Do you, do you know about how, or do you guys already have that set up? Do you, are you already thinking about how this is all gonna go down? ’cause I think it’s in, is it July of this year? Or when is 2 (11m 28s): Yes. Yeah. So it’ll be, I think the actual competition is like the, the 13th through the 18th, I think it is that week. You know what I mean? So there’s some, I think opening ceremonies are the, the 12th and the closing ceremonies are the 19th, I believe. You know. But yeah, so, you know, there will be other anglers out there. You know, we just kind of try to do our best and be respectful and, you know, not step on anybody’s toes. And, you know, the river’s obviously for everybody. 1 (11m 59s): What is, I mean, I think Josh, when I had him on the podcast, I, I kind of, when they do these shows, it’s pretty cool because right away you, you realize when you’re interviewing for somebody for the first time, you’re like, wow, this guy is, I wanna talk to this guy more. ’cause he is so knowledgeable. What is it about Josh? Why do you think he’s such a good river anglers? Do, do you, can you pick something out or is it just, you know, what sticks out to you? 3 (12m 20s): So 2 (12m 21s): Yeah, I, I think, I don’t know if Josh will agree with this, right? But I think, so Josh has a lot of experience, right? Like, he was on Team USA, the men’s team for two cycles. He was, you know, he was the manager of the youth team for probably like 10 years before he became the head coach. So Josh has fished a lot of different places, right? Like, and so I think that makes him a super versatile angler. Like he’s seen a lot of things. He’s fished in a ton of countries, I can’t even tell you how many it is. And he, he actually has a list on his phones of like all the places he’s fished. So I think just fishing all those different places, fishing with all those different people makes you a well-rounded angler, right? 2 (13m 4s): And then also, you know, growing up and, you know, fishing the rivers of pa Yeah, I mean, obviously that has a, an element to it as well. But I, I, I think his just experience around the world, he’s seen a lot of things and been in a lot of situations. And so sometimes those situations will replicate themselves. So I think, I think that really helps him dissect the river and understand what’s happening faster than most people. 1 (13m 30s): What is the, on the nonprofit, I’m kind of interested about how that worked. It’s been 10 years, but was that process creating a nonprofit 5 0 1 C3? What was that like? You know, do you remember it? Well, getting started and all that? 2 (13m 43s): Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, I remember it well, for sure. No, it was, you know, I, I have a business background, so, you know, I’m an, I’m an accountant, so, you know, the business side of things was, was pretty easy. You know, kind of the, I think the hardest thing is controlling the growth, right? So like, you know, as you’re, as you’re trying to bring a nonprofit up, you wanna have a great program and you want it to be beneficial and everybody wants to do it right? But like, you can’t really do that. So you kind of gotta, you know, we, we slowed our growth a little bit to make sure that we were creating sustainable projects around the us. 2 (14m 25s): So I think that’s been the hardest part, is just like building something from scratch. The business side of it is, is totally fine, but, you know, there’s also a human side of like, you know, I feel like the most important people in the MAYFLY project are 1000000% are volunteers, right? Like, there’s no doubt about it. And so, making sure those volunteers are happy and that we do a great job in supporting them is, is, you know, one of our, obviously serving foster kids is number one, but making sure our mentors and volunteers are happy are number two. So I think, you know, controlling the growth of it and, and also making sure that we are able to support our, our mentors, you know, those are, those have been the hardest parts of, of it, I guess. 1 (15m 12s): Makes sense. Okay. And, and if people are listening now and they want to volunteer or get connected, what’s the best way to find out if they have something going on in their area? 2 (15m 21s): Yeah, So we have an interactive map on our website that you can kind of go in and see if there’s a project near you. And if there is, you can just go to our application that’s on our website and there’s a dropdown menu that’ll list all the projects, and you can just select the project that’s closest to you and, and kind of submit an application. And if you want to start a new project, if there’s one that’s not close to you, there’s another application for project startups that ask just a few different questions and we kind of know how to, how to process those. So yeah, just visit our website and all the information on kind of getting involved is on there. 1 (15m 58s): Yeah, I’m looking at it now. So, so that’s it. So you get done. What are some of the things that a volunteer is this part where you, you talked about the one-on-one is how, how, what would potential volunteers be doing? 2 (16m 9s): Yeah, so I probably should clarify that, Dave, actually. So the, you know, the one-on-one, we’re still doing it, we’re still working in groups, right? So like, we’ll have a, you know, let’s just say the Little Rock Arkansas project, you know, still, they’re all going out as a group, but you have a kid one-on-one. So, yeah, I mean, you know, the good thing is, is we have a lot of volunteers. You know, we, we will, you know, if we, if we do have, you know, more volunteers than kids, like we’ll just, you know, some, there’ll be two mentors for volunteers, which, you know, which is actually a great thing, right? Like these kids are, a lot of ’em are in group homes, you know, so they’re in a house with, you know, however many other kids or, and so it’s great for them just to kind of get that one-on-one connection, right? 2 (16m 52s): Like, even though it’s all about fishing and all that stuff, like it’s, it, it means a lot to them, you know, that they kind of get that just one-on-one time and there’s no agenda with it, right? Like, even if you know, these kids are going to see therapists or they’re going to talk to their caseworkers, there’s always a, a motive behind it, right? Like, okay, we’re deciding this, or we’re figuring out this, like with, with us, like it’s just two to four hours of, you know, cutting up and fishing and eating snacks and all that good stuff. So, you know, as a mentor you kind of get to be a part of that. And, you know, we, we definitely, you know, we kind of we’re kind of like, you know, if, you know, if, if we know these, these fish, let’s just say Eaton Midges, right? 2 (17m 41s): Or whatever, like, and your kid wants to tie a super hot pink willy bugger, like, let’s just go for it. You know? It’s all about just kind of meeting the kids where they’re at, at, and, you know, a good mentor isn’t necessarily, you know, your local fly fishing guide, right? It’s somebody who can kind of, you know, tie a knot and connect with the kid. You know, those, those make our best mentors. 1 (18m 2s): From what you learned with the Mayfly project, has it helped with what you do with Team USA, the youth there? Is there any overlap? 2 (18m 8s): Yeah, I think, you know, kids are kids, right? Like, you know, granted, you know, just kinda, like I said, meeting ’em where they’re at. These kids are in a little bit different situation, but I still think it’s the same thing, right? Like, we’re still learning life lessons, you know, with, with team USA, just as we are with Mayfly project, you know, so it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t matter where the kid came from per se, you know, we still have these life lessons that we need to learn. So I think, you know, kind of connecting with these, these kids on a different level is, is super fun too, you know? So, if that makes sense. Yeah, it 1 (18m 48s): Does. What is the, as you look out at this year, you mentioned the July 12th. Do you already kind of have things planned out? How do you see that rolling out this year? Are you, do you have it in your mind exactly how this is all gonna go? 2 (19m 1s): You know, so I guess the answer is yes, you know, So we, you know, I already have, you know, we already have Google Docs of, you know, where we’re gonna stay, what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna start getting together a plan of, you know, what, what we’re gonna fish and practice. So we’re actually gonna go out in June and practice and, and kind of get stuff ready. And then we’ll actually arrive a week early before the competition and we’ll practice then too in, in water that is designated for practice. So, you know, kind of getting all that set up, we’ll start having meetings with kind of, we’ve already started with the kids having Zoom meetings with, you know, great anglers like Devin Olson and you know, Lauren Williams and just a bunch of people like that Clay Gunther focusing on the lake portion of it, right? 2 (19m 49s): So we feel like that’s the, they call it the great equalizer in competitions, right? Like fish in the lake. So we’ve been trying to get our kids kind of geared up for that. So we’ll just continue to work through those Zoom meetings and like I said, we’ll have practice in June and then a month later we’ll fly back out to fish in the competition. But yeah, it’s, it’s pretty organized. We try to get everything really, really in line, so there’s no questions and everybody kind of knows the drill. The good thing is, is we have a team that’s a little bit older, so those guys, you know, are gonna do a great job of preparing and we’re only gonna have to add, we’ll add one more team member from last year. 2 (20m 32s): We had Cage Kosler who was the world champion last year, he aged out. And so we’ll have one more kid that we’re adding to the team. We actually know who it is and we’re getting ready to announce it, but we’re, we’re super excited to add, add that kid and kind of get them plugged in and get everybody going. 1 (20m 51s): How do you find the, how does that happen? Like the new youth, the new kids that are coming up from the, you know, do they just come from a word of mouth or how does that work? 2 (20m 60s): Yeah, you know, a lot of it’s like word of mouth and kind of social media. You know, we hold clinics so we’ll hold ’em in PA sometimes we’ll hold ’em out West, North Carolina, we’re gonna try to do one in Oklahoma possibly this year. But, you know, we’ll hold clinics where we basically, you know, we’ll teach kids about, you know, different facets, you know, a lot of tight line nipping, we’ll do some dry dropper and some dry fly stuff, but just try to get those kids introduced to the competition side and, you know, kind of get ’em going. And we recently just held nationals a few weeks ago, and so the kids kind of get to go and compete against other kids. 2 (21m 42s): We had 24 kids compete at Nationals, which was, oh yeah, we had 24 kids compete at nationals, which was the most we’ve ever had. So we’re trying to kind of build that pipeline. So our goal kind of moving forward with the youth team is to, you know, kind of get these clinics going all around the country and really build that pipeline of kids. 1 (22m 4s): Yeah, it makes sense. What, what is it then about, you know, now I’m just thinking of the other countries, ’cause there’s, you know, what are, what are they doing differently? Why do you think that there’s been a lot of success here in the last couple years? And with Team USA compared to, say, other countries out there? Or are they having similar success? 2 (22m 20s): Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a really great question 1 (22m 24s): Because it seems like, I remember when the people when, I can’t remember who was on here. I had somebody that was talking about the, just the regular Ben’s championship. It was like, I think it might have been actually Jack Dennis again, the history of how you had these guys over there. He was painting the picture of those people in Czech Republic. I mean, it was their, if they didn’t win, you know, I think they were losing their jobs and stuff. Like, it was really important, you know what I mean? It was really seriously important and that’s why they were so good. Yeah. But you know, it seems like maybe things have changed since, since those days back in the day. 2 (22m 52s): Yeah. Maybe, you know, when we, when we were, so this past summer when we were in the Czech and the kids swept everything, like they were not super happy, you know? Oh, really? Oh, yeah, yeah. They were not super happy. Like they were, they were nice, but you could tell it was not kosher. I think that was the first time they had lost on home soil, like ever. So, you know, I think a lot of it, honestly, Dave like comes down to the coaches, right? And just the culture they build around it. So I think Josh has done a great job of, I’ll say like being open-minded and fluid on the river, right? 2 (23m 32s): Like, if, if things change on the river, you know, you may go in there with your plan is to do this and do this because that’s what’s happening. And then, you know, all of a sudden you see, you know, fish higher up in the water column and you know, you, you gotta, you gotta be versatile, right? And So we really, really stress with our kids, like, you know, let’s, let’s keep our eyes open, let’s make changes. You know, we change up our drifts, we do all kinds of different things, you know, to make sure that we can maybe predict those fishes next step. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you got, you got two nymphs on and they’re constantly eating that top nph, okay? Like those fish are looking up in the water column, right? 2 (24m 12s): And like, you know, I feel like Josh does a great job always pushing the envelope, you know, to go lighter and thinner and more stealthy, right? Like a lot of times people think of topline or euro nipping and you know, you’re fishing a four mill bead and dragging the bottom, which is definitely not what we’re doing. You know? So there’s kind of some misconceptions when it comes to that. But I think a lot of it comes down to the coaches and you know, the tools they give the kids. And I think, you know, the clinics and stuff that we do around here I think really help, you know, like I said, and, and we have great coaches. You know, you got Gordon VanderPol, North Carolina, Joe Clark in Pennsylvania, and Brian Kimmel in, in Montana, and then you got Josh in in PA as well. 2 (24m 56s): So I think it could be the system a little bit, if that makes sense. 1 (25m 1s): Yeah, no, it does. So, and I love the, you know, not dragging the bottom. So there’s different, it’s not just, you know, get down deep quick, oh, get 2 (25m 9s): To the finish. Definitely 1 (25m 9s): Not. What are some other, are there other kinda common euro nipping kinda myths you’ve, you’ve seen or, you know, see people doing, you know, thinking about, talking about out there that aren’t really true? 2 (25m 20s): Yeah, I mean there’s the constant like, you know, it’s just high sticking, you know, which I mean, which, you know, can, can drive me a little insane. I mean, you’d be surprised at, you know, how far we can them away from us, you know, with super light leaders, you know, you know, 10 years ago it was all about, you know, maximum chameleon and 25 pound butt sections. And then it’s definitely not like that these days, you know? So we, I think, I think the high sticking portion really gets me, you know, I’m like, oh man, like 1 (25m 52s): The high sticking being that you have to be writing close, high sticking, or Right. Describe that a little bit. 2 (25m 58s): Yeah, I mean, you know, that’s the deal. Like with an indicator, you know, I’ve got a couple different things I can do right? To like, but, but with tie line nipping, I can do all kinds of different things. I can present that fly downstream. I can, I can just do all of these different things, I think to make those fish kind of eat or figure out how they would like to eat that day, if that makes sense. 1 (26m 22s): Right. And that’s, that’s why the bene, that’s one of the big benefits over the indicator. 2 (26m 26s): And the indicator has it’s time and place, you know, like for sure, you know, a lot of times we’ll just fish dry dropper ’cause we can kind of do some versatile stuff with that, you know, as far as like, you know, you, there’s sometimes we’ll even hold the dry off the water, right? And like, that also can act as an indicator, like just do, we can do different things. So, but the indicator definitely has its time and its place, you know? 1 (26m 50s): Yeah. And, and that’s the, so the dry dropper, that’s still a method that you can use with competition. 2 (26m 55s): Yeah. So, and, and I think that’s another key thing too, you know, in the Czech Republic, like, you know, the kids caught ’em, you know, regular tat line nipping or Euro nipping, they caught ’em, streamer fishing, you know, they caught ’em on draft flies. Like, you gotta be versatile at all of these things. So a lot of times people are just like, oh man, like, you know, those fishing competitions, it’s just, you know, you’re nipping. I’m like, nah, it’s, it’s definitely not, you gotta be able to do, you gotta be good at all of it. Right. Including lakes, which is 1 (27m 27s): Oh, right lakes, which is a big, so you, you said that earlier, it’s the, the great equalizer that’s kind of what, what you call, is that what people think of lakes? And why? Is that just because they’re, they’re people aren’t as experienced with them? 2 (27m 38s): No, well, I think, I think like, you know, there’s not, so in, in the other competi in the river competitions, you draw a, a beat, right? So you have a, a beat and you can fish between here and here. And so on the lakes, you know, you’re just in a boat and you’ve gotta kind of figure ’em out. There’s no beat typically unless you’re fishing from the bank. Right. Sometimes they’ll do what they call pegs and you can fish, fish from the bank. But yeah, you just, you’re in a boat and it’s, you know, you’re not limited, you know, at least in the river sessions, you know, you get assigned a beat and sometimes you can get, you can draw a bad beat, which, you know, you can’t really help. 2 (28m 20s): So I think that’s the part that they consider the great equalizers. ’cause you know, you’re not limited to anything you can, everybody’s got their own own shot at it, if that makes sense. 1 (28m 29s): Yeah. So I think that’s the cool thing about the, the Lakes is that the comps are, you know, your on the boat fishing with kind of your, your competitor, right? You guys want That’s right. One guy has one side, the other guy has the other side, and, but at the same time, you’re kind of fishing together, right? Because you, you still wanna have the best day. Is that, have you been out, do you know how that, have you been on the boat on that stuff? Have you seen how that works with the comps? 2 (28m 50s): Yeah, so I’ve fished in a few competitions with boats in ’em. Oddly enough, Josh and I shared a boat in Oh wow. In a regional one time. Yeah. Which was super fun. 1 (29m 0s): Really. It was like you against Josh Moore? 2 (29m 2s): Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, that was before I’d actually set up to hire Josh the Monday and Tuesday after that competition. Right. 1 (29m 10s): Oh, no kidding. 2 (29m 11s): I got my teeth kicked in, in the competition, and I knew, like, I was like, I’m gonna have to hire somebody, you know? So, but anyways, so yeah, Josh and I shared a boat in my first lake comp. It was super funny. Like, I didn’t actually know that we both fished at the same time. And so, like, I showed up to the lake thinking that Josh was fishing first, and Josh was like, where’s all your stuff? And I was like, what’s in the car? He is like, well, you’re fishing too. I was like, oh gosh, I didn’t, like, I didn’t even know, you know, super funny. But yeah, so I’ve, I’ve fished in a, in a few of them, but yeah, you know, I think from a competitive side, like, you know, people do stuff like dither fly lines and stuff, so they can’t tell what they’re using, you know? 2 (29m 55s): But I think, I think for the most part, especially in the youth, you know, the kids will try to, you know, work together, right? Because like you said, like you’ve gotta work together, you’re both on a boat, you know. So I think, you know, there are times where, you know, maybe there are some differences and, and even though they may not speak the same language, right? Because sometimes that happens, you know, they, they try to work together. 1 (30m 21s): What is, are you familiar with Idaho Falls, Henry’s, like, kind of that whole area? Have you been there before? 2 (30m 27s): Not really. I have not been there before. I’ve been doing some research on it. Like I said, we’ve done some podcasts with, you know, like Devin and, and Lauren Williams and some people like that. But I’ve never personally been there. 1 (30m 39s): You’ve, you mean you’ve been on other podcast shows? 2 (30m 42s): Oh no. Sorry, I thought you were asking if I I’ve been to Idaho Falls. 1 (30m 45s): Oh yeah. Well I was originally, yeah. And then I was, then also, I was wondering about, you mentioned the podcast, 2 (30m 50s): I’ve been kind of gathering it, but I’ve never personally set eyes on it. Yeah. 1 (30m 53s): And that’s where you guys are doing, you’re getting meetings with like Devon, ols and other people that know Yeah, that’s right. The best out there and That’s 2 (30m 60s): Right. That have fished the venues before and trying to kind of get intel on some of that stuff. You know, are, are these lakes, you know, stock trout, are they wild trout? You know, just trying to gather all of the, that stuff So we can kind of get a game plan in our head of how we’re gonna attack that. 1 (31m 13s): And you guys are doing, I think it’s Sheridan is one lake, right? You’re doing Yep. Sheridan. Are you also doing another lake? 2 (31m 19s): Yeah, I think it’s Higdon, I think. Oh, Higdon, yeah. Is is the other lake that they’re doing 1 (31m 25s): Higdon. And then I think you’re also doing something on the Henry’s Fork. Yep. And then also the, I think some trips to the South Fork, the snake, right? 2 (31m 32s): Yep. That’s correct. That’s correct. 1 (31m 34s): So this is cool. So people, and, and if people want to get involved or come check it out, that’s pretty, is it? Pretty much you can just roll down there and you know much about that. Like if somebody wanted to check it out, do they just stop down on those dates and kind of watch what’s going on? Yeah, 2 (31m 47s): Yeah. So, you know, there’s kind of some, you know, some et etiquette with that, right. Dave? Like, you know, you don’t want to be like down on the beat and stuff like that. I’m not sure like where the beats will be, if there’ll be enough room for like, spectators to be there, you know, in or 1 (32m 4s): Whatever. 2 (32m 4s): Yeah. I mean, we’ll be down there in those areas. And like I said, yeah, if you see somebody fishing, you know, you can definitely watch ’em. I, I would say just from a, you know, respect point of view, you know, don’t, of course don’t, you know, 1 (32m 17s): Give ’em some room. 2 (32m 18s): Yeah. Get out in the water, do, you know, do anything like that. But yeah, like, you know, I think that stuff’s always good. And I always love going, you know, I always learned stuff from the kids and watching other kids and I mean, it’s, it’s a great time and it’s a great way to learn more, you know? So these kids are some great anglers for sure. 1 (32m 38s): Yeah, I think that seems like one of the coolest parts of it is that you get to watch some of the best, and we’re all, and it’s not only the kids, right? The the women are actually going Yep. At the same time, which is, that’s right. Which is kind of cool. We’ve done right. And that’s, now that’s separate but connected or how, how does that look? 2 (32m 53s): Yeah, it’s, it’s separate but connected, you know, we’ll all be staying, I think, at the same hotel and, and doing all, and we’re fishing some of the same venues. I think that, you know, there may be some sections or whatever that, that they fish that we don’t fish. But yeah, it’ll be going on during the same time and it’s, it’s gonna be pretty cool, you know? And so we’re really excited when we fly out to do our practice. The women will be out there practicing too. So we’re gonna try to share and, you know, kind of, you know, share information and, you know, the way we can all hopefully do good as a, as a country. 1 (33m 29s): What is the, you mentioned learning from the kids. Is there, are there some things you’ve learned just by working with them over the years on straight up fly fishing tips and stuff like that? Yeah, 2 (33m 39s): I mean, I think there’s all, I, you know, I’m not sure I can think of anything off the top of my head, Dave, but like I’ll see, you know, somebody approach a piece of water and I’ll be like, huh, I, I wouldn’t have thought to do it like that or, or whatever, you know, it’s, so, yeah, there’s always stuff to learn, you know? I mean, some of these, these kids, you know, have, have fished, you know, men’s competitions and done well this year, right? On some of these same venues. I think that, you know, we had lost and fly out and fish. He fished a comp that was held up in here, and he did, he did really good in the comp. So, you know, these, these kids are definitely some sticks. So there’s always stuff a pickup for sure. You 1 (34m 18s): Know? So what I mean, now with the Mayfly project, you know, the, the youth, I mean, it seems like you, you’re probably fairly busy. What, what else do are you, do you have going on? Or is this the, the bulk of what you have going on in the fly fishing space? Y yeah, 2 (34m 30s): So this is kind of it, you know what I mean? And these are two things that I, I love, right? Like, you know, Mayflower Project obviously has, has a super special place in my heart, you know what I mean? Like, it’s, it’s, it’s my favorite, you know? I mean, like I said, you know, since I’ve come on with the kid, the youth team, like this has been super fun too, you know? So I was guiding and doing some things and I’ve kind of given up the guiding piece now, you know, just to kind of not take more time away from my family. And yeah, man, I mean, I’m just, you know, do getting to do some really cool, fun stuff, you know? So traveling with the youth team and traveling with Mayfly project, like, it’s really fun. 2 (35m 12s): And I think the the cool part is, is like they don’t overlap, you know what I mean? Kind of, you know, one of the things that we’ve talked about when I came on with the youth team, it was like, okay, well, you know, we have have Mayfly project and I have the youth team, and those things have to be separate, you know what I mean? So I don’t mix mix and match donors or anything like that. Oh. You know what I mean? 1 (35m 32s): Yeah. Right. You gotta keep, 2 (35m 33s): Keep everything super separate, you know? So the, the managing piece of, of Team USA, I just kind of do whatever Josh and them tell me to do, you know what I mean? Right, right. Which is fun, you know, may I project is kind of like, it’s more, you know, thinking out loud and, you know, trying to, trying to lead it and then May, and then the youth team, I kind of just get to, I’m still working, but, you know, I’m, I’m getting to take direction and, and do that stuff with somebody else. Sure. So that, if that kind of makes sense. It’s, it’s, 1 (36m 0s): Yeah, it does. 2 (36m 1s): It’s, it’s super nice to be able to kind of do that. And like I said, I love, I love, love Josh Miller to death and, and yeah. And love all those guys. So it’s, it’s been super fun. And 1 (36m 12s): What are the, as far as the youth, the kids on the team, how many are gonna be competing and how many total are on, are on the team? 2 (36m 19s): Yeah, So we have 12 that are on the team right now. And we’ll have, we’ll have six that’ll be competing at Worlds. So there’ll be five anglers that compete, and we’ll have one alternate, but that alternate can kind of come in and out, if that makes sense. So, which, you know, typically that’ll happen, you know, if, if somebody’s a, you know, a, a strong river angler, but a, a weaker lake angler, you know, you can kind of interchange those, the alternate and the fishermen enlisted on the roster. So, yeah. So it’s, it’s super cool. And like I said, we’re, we’re excited to get that going. 1 (36m 58s): That’s sweet. And Drew Bone, is one of the kids on there? Is he an older kid or what, what’s 2 (37m 3s): His, yeah, so he, I think Drew’s last year was 2023, and I think he was the world champion that year. I can’t, don’t quote me on that, you know what I mean? But 1 (37m 15s): I’ll, I’ll check in with him. Yeah, 2 (37m 16s): Yeah. But Drew Drew’s, he, he’s a great angler. And like I said, he was there before I was there, you know, but yeah, he was, I think he was with, with him and Bosnia, I believe. And like I said, yeah, he, he, he’s a great stick. And like I said, he’s, he’s, he was with the organization I think for a long time. 1 (37m 37s): Yeah, definitely. I always think, you know, kind of the sports analogies, I think it’s interesting ’cause you have these kids, right? That there’s 13, 14, 15, and they, and they’re at high levels, right? They’re competing. Yeah. And, and, and it seems like, wow, that would be a challenge I think of myself at that level. I, I remember, you know, lots of failures, right? When you’re that age. Yeah. But then you go to the, the, the young Phenoms and other sports, right? The Tiger Woods, you know, LeBron James, all these kids. And it seems like, I mean, what separates that, you know, think of like you’re on the stage. ’cause I’m sure there’s lots of pressure. Do you see that? What do you tell the kids? Do you think there is a lot of pressure for these kids out there competing? Or is it different because there’s not the money piece? I mean, that’s one thing, right? You don’t, you don’t see Right? There’s not, they’re not winning millions 2 (38m 17s): Of dollars. There’s not money piece. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could, I could see that. I do think there’s a lot of pressure, especially when it comes, you know, on, unlike when they’re fishing in the national championship or when they’re fishing the world championships, you know, I think Josh and I are both pretty relaxed, so I think sometimes that can kind of project on them, you know, like if you, if you have a bad session, you just do, you know, like I was, I was talking to one of the kids who didn’t start out nationals the way that he would’ve liked to, you know, and I was like, Hey, like you’re a, you’re a great fisherman, you know, like, you’re gonna do great tomorrow. And so I think, you know, a lot of those affirmations and stuff, like, even Jess as like an angler, right? Like I, I’ll have days where I’m like, man, am I, I’m terrible at this. 1 (39m 1s): Right. You know, we all do that. Yeah. We like, what am I doing as, what am I doing guiding somebody out here? Right. I’m terrible. 2 (39m 6s): Yeah, exactly. You know, and so I think, you know, it’s a lot of that emotional support too, right? Like, you know, you guys got this. And so I think there’s a lot of pressure, but I also think, I think a lot of these kids handle it pretty well too. You know, they’ve, they’ve done it for a while. It is funny. I’ll be anxious if, if we, if we, you know, if we get together and talk again, the next world championships in 2026, I believe is in Ireland. Oh, wow. Which is like mostly lakes. And we’ll have like, oh, nice. All, all new team. You know what I mean? So it’s not an all new team, but a a lot of the kids are aging out this year, so it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be interesting in 2026, you know, so I may have a, a different answer about, you know, the kids being nervous and all that good stuff. 2 (39m 52s): But I think they ha they handle it, they handle it really good. I think they actually probably handle it better than I would, honestly, you know? 1 (39m 58s): No, I think, yeah, like anything, it’s just the pressure is part of, you know, sports. I mean, it’s not really, I guess we don’t consider fly fishing really a sport, but, you know, it is, you know, at that level, I think it is probably right if you’re 2 (40m 9s): Competing. Oh, a hundred percent. It’s, it’s physical and, you know, you know, think about it, some of the, the, the beats last year, I’ll never forget, I was watching Lawson Fish, fish one of these beats that had these huge boulders in it, you know? And like, he was like falling down and I mean, just it like, I was like, man, 1 (40m 30s): Yeah, he was going for it. He was just like, yeah, 2 (40m 31s): Yeah. Going for it. And like I said, he like slid down a rock to, you know, this fish took him down to the next waterfall and he like slid down and I was like, man, I, you know, I’m almost 40. I’d be so sore after that, you know, like, you know, he’s 1 (40m 42s): Yeah, totally. He 2 (40m 43s): Is 17 years old, so, you know. Oh yeah. He is 1 (40m 45s): Loving it. 2 (40m 46s): He can just get after it, 1 (40m 47s): You know. Nice. And then on, you know, back to the Mayfly project, I, I think we, I, you know, talked to you about this before, but now it’s been another four years. I mean, you must be seeing some of these kids growing up now and becoming adults. Do you, are you tracking some of that as these kids go through your program? 2 (41m 2s): You know, that’s a super great question, Dave. And one we get all the time. So a lot of times the foster care system will, you know, just kind of take those kids and we don’t necessarily know where they end up. Oh, sure. You know, and it, you know, you just, you never kind of know. And, and also I think for the Mayflower project, you know, we talk about, we have those five outings for setting, you know, expectations and boundaries, right. For both the kids and the mentors. You know, like those kids have been let down their entire life. So, you know, telling them that we’re only gonna be there five times, you know, and then it kind of stops. 2 (41m 42s): There’s a, there’s a start and a stop. And I think that’s good for everybody, you know, but I will say this, right? Like, we have kids who are coming back and starting to mentor, you know, which is super awesome. There you go. 1 (41m 52s): So 2 (41m 53s): YA lot of the kids, you know, kind of like, you know, they move on and, and you know, we don’t hear from ’em. But there are, there are times right, where these kids are coming back and we, we have kids that come back year after year. We have some kids in my project that have been coming, you know, for three or four years, you know, so like, I mean, I know these kids, you know, so it’s, it’s, it’s super cool. But like I said, we we’re not able to really track ’em and we kind of feel like that’s a, a blessing and a curse, right? Like, you, you can’t ever answer that question. And there’s no really statistics, 1 (42m 28s): But, you know, it’s, you, you know, it works. I mean, just from experience on other, other events, you know, I mean, the go to project Heating Waters is totally different, I’m sure. But, you know, you know, that stuff works ’cause you hear the 2 (42m 38s): Stories. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, we’ve got, I’ve got tons of stories about like, you know, going through Chick-fil-A and seeing a girl there that we used to mentor, and she’s like, Hey, I taught my adoptive family how to, how to fish and we go every weekend. Oh. You know what I mean? Like, we’ve had mentors in Colorado, you know, see past mentees on Rivers, you know, like, I mean, it, it definitely works, you know, it’s just kind of for the kids’ safety and for our mentor safety that we don’t continue to track ’em, you know? Yeah, 1 (43m 5s): Yeah, yeah. We gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And you guys, you mentioned 32 states. What are, are you trying to have a goal to get to all 50 states? Or is this something where you’re not really putting that pressure on yourself? 2 (43m 17s): Yeah, I think, I think that is a goal, right? But we’re definitely not putting pressure on ourself, you know, to do that. You know, like if it happens, it happens. And if it doesn’t, it doesn’t, I always said from the beginning, like, you know, if this thing, you know, if Mayflower project ended up, and I really thought about this in COVID, right? If Mayflower Project ended up and it, it just wasn’t a thing, like I would still be mentoring foster kids, right? Like, for sure. So, you know, it just kind of goes where it goes, you know? And we’re not really gonna gonna make it fit into to different boxes, I guess. You know what I mean? But yeah, we would love to be in 50 states, but, you know, if, if we do get one from Hawaii, we may, we may bump that to the top of the list, right? 1 (44m 1s): But 2 (44m 2s): Yeah. But no, I think we do wanna be there, but we’re not, we’re not actively trying to pursue those, if that makes sense. 1 (44m 8s): Okay. And is that how it works? Like when you have a new, if there’s a state out there that doesn’t have a project, do you, does that just come from somebody coming to you? Or do you go out and Yeah, yeah, 2 (44m 17s): A hundred percent. Like all of these lead mentors come to us. 1 (44m 21s): They come to you and they say, Hey, we’re, we’re, I, I’m in Nebraska and I want to help. I wanna get involved. 2 (44m 25s): That’s right. 1 (44m 26s): Yeah. Because obviously, I’m sure there’s concerns right around this country. Is is that, if you guys looked at that, are there places that you know, pretty much it’s an issue everywhere? Or are there more places that, where maybe there’s more need? 2 (44m 38s): Yeah, I think it’s, it’s a hundred percent everywhere. You know, I do think there are places with more need than others. You know, like obviously, you know, bigger cities, bigger places. 1 (44m 48s): Yeah. Bigger 2 (44m 49s): Cities population. There’s, there’s a, a bigger need. But yeah, it just for us, like, you know, finding the right lead mentor is really, really important. You know, like we, we only start five new projects a year. So, you know, in 2025 we’re starting Erie, Pennsylvania, Brighton, Massachusetts, Dallas, Texas, Anchorage, Alaska, and Perold. Arkansas. Arkansas. So those are our five projects. And So we just try to make sure that, you know, we normally start, we normally start working with them like a year out to make sure they understand the process and what’s gonna happen. And so, kind like I said earlier, making sure those projects are sustainable is the most important thing. 2 (45m 30s): You know, we want those projects to flourish. And, you know, I think some of the best stories I have are like, Hey, I did a news interview today and did all this stuff. Like I love that so much. It’s my favorite, you know, to see those mentors getting that recognition. ’cause they deserve it. You know, a lot of times myself and Caitlyn and other Mayflower project employees get to do some of these cool things like these podcasts, you know what I mean? And so, you know, and, and truly like, I wish all of our mentors got to do this kind of stuff. And when they get to do it, man, I, I love it so much. It’s my favorite. 1 (46m 5s): Definitely. Well, that’s a good, a good idea maybe for the future is to find, you know, maybe one of your mentors that wants to come on the show and Oh, 2 (46m 12s): That’d be awesome. 1 (46m 13s): You know, and hear that’d be awesome. Hear more from a different perspective, right? Of somebody who Oh, yeah, yeah. 2 (46m 18s): We have some great human beings. Dave. Like I said, I’d love, if you wanna do a project with like a, a lead mentor or, or a regular mentor, like we, and we have some super cool stories of like former foster kids or we have lead mentors that are therapists, you know, and we have, yeah, we have some really, really cool and awesome people involved with the Mayflower project. 1 (46m 38s): Do you guys connect with, like on the media, say the news, you know, TVs, all that stuff, do you, do you make a effort to say, Hey, there’s, you know, getting the word out? Or does that just come kind of naturally organic? Organically, yeah, 2 (46m 50s): It kind of comes naturally Every once in a while. You know, if we have a lead mentor who’s starting a new project that is trying to find kids, we’ll be like, Hey, reach out to local news outlets. You know, and those lead mentors kind of do all of that legwork, you know, we’ll, we’ll step in and help if we can, but for the most part, you know, we have those lead mentors are kind of making all those connections and making that stuff happen. Yeah. 1 (47m 14s): They’re, they’re doing it all. Okay. Yeah. Cool, man. Well, this is, this has been cool to kinda get an update on both projects. I mean, it’s the May fly project, and I think of the youth, it’s not a project because you guys have, I mean, two world championships, so you’re, I won’t say, well, I guess I won’t say dominating, but when you, if you get three in a row, I don’t know what you call that, right? The threepeat, that seems like you’re, 2 (47m 34s): Yeah, 1 (47m 35s): But I don’t wanna yet wood. I don’t wanna jig You guys knock off the wood. Yeah, exactly. I’m knocking, I’m knocking on wood. 2 (47m 40s): Yeah. Yeah. It’ll, we’ll, we’ll put all that pressure on Josh. 1 (47m 43s): Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, Josh. And is it, you know, because we’ve talked to Josh and Glade, we talked to Glade about, and he’s kind of helping to, I think, manage well he’s, he’s at a different level, right? With what Glade does. Yeah. But who else, is there anybody else in the youth team that’s kind of at your guys’ level, or is it just you and Josh kind of running things? Yeah, 2 (47m 60s): So we have, So we have John Ford, who is the president of the youth team. So he kind of handles all the fundraising piece, all the money piece and that kind of stuff. And so he’s been with the youth team for a long, long time. So, like I said, and then, you know, of course Josh is the head coach. And then you know, me as the manager position, I kind of, you know, I kind of handle, I handle like a, the planning parts of things. I’ll do a little bit of coaching, you know, if I need to. I’m a, I’m a big moral support, you know. And then, yeah, like our coaches, Gordon Vanderpool, Joe Clark and Brian Kimmler are awesome. And then we have a ton of instructors that have kind of like, and this is ki this is really a Josh thing, right? 2 (48m 40s): Like, building that pipeline has been really important for Josh. We used to do a, a lot of like weekend clinics, right? So you would like come in for the weekend and then, you know, it’d be like a thousand bucks or 500 bucks or something like that, and you’d spend the whole weekend and we’d, we’d have coaches there and instructors there and that kind of stuff. But, you know, it was, it was pretty expensive. And so kind of the, the way that Josh is, is, you know, moving the team is for, you know, to do like one day clinics and they’re like $125 a piece. Right. And we’ve had like Mike Kamara, who’s on the men’s team and done really well. 2 (49m 23s): We’ve had George Daniel, we’ve had all these people kind of working with these kids, right. Who are amazing fishermen. So 1 (49m 29s): These are clinics you’re setting up for the clinics for kids, for youth, 2 (49m 32s): For kids, yes. Yeah. For kids. And so, and we’re trying to offer it at a cheaper price, right? Like, So we can kind of get more kids involved, right. So maybe money’s not an issue, you know, a thou a thousand dollars to go, you know, for a weekend could, could be a, is a, is a lot of money, right? Yeah. So, you know, being able to offer a clinic with George Daniel for 125 bucks Yeah. That’s amazing. Right. For a day is a, is a lot more doable to kind of get those kids involved and get that stuff going. And that’s for sure Josh’s idea to kind of take the team that direction, which I think is, 1 (50m 3s): I’d love that. Yeah. Get 2 (50m 4s): More people. Yeah. Which I think is a great way to do it, you know? So he’s done an amazing job and we’ve had a whole lot of instructors who have come out. So, you know, especially in our like Pennsylvania clinics and, and doing things like that, we’ve had a ton of people who’ve come out and volunteered, right? So in the past clinics have been, you know, six to eight kids, and then now we’re having to like cut ’em off at, you know, 30 kids, you know. But I think, and I think a lot of it has to do with the venues and, and, and not, you know, being a, being a thousand dollars to attend the clinic. 1 (50m 38s): Yeah. And you were at the, back to the last term of the Czech, right? Yeah. You were, you were in the Czech Republic when they won. Yes, sir. Yeah, 2 (50m 44s): Yeah, yeah. 1 (50m 45s): What was, maybe, let’s take it outta here again, I, I love my sports analogies, the, the plays of the week. I go back to the, you know, the ESPN kind of plays of the week. Yeah. Thinking of LeBron James with the, with the 360 windmill dunk. Yeah. But that event, I mean, is there a play kind of, or you know, something during that week that really you think like, man, that that was a play of, of the week play of oh 2 (51m 5s): Hundred percent year. Maybe hundred percent. Like, so the Volva River was, was one of the rivers that, that we fished in, like the upper volva. Yeah. So we were giving those fish, like, or the kids were giving those fish a lot of, a lot more slack, so the MP would, you know, fall through the water column a little bit differently. You know, if the fish eats it, it’s gonna hold onto it a little bit longer sometimes. And so sometimes they want, they just want the nymphs presented that way. So, so fishing with a little bit of slack on the Volva River was for sure the play of the week or, or the way that that was the, the, the secret to it, if that makes sense. 1 (51m 46s): And that was the, the, the made difference that day, just doing a, something small like that. Yeah. Well, it’s not small, but Yeah. Changing it up and, ’cause you don’t think of slack as like, well, even with Tightline nipping, right? It’s in the, you don’t think of Slack being something you do, but actually this, it was something that, and where does that come up? Some of these things, you’re out there fishing. That’s a struggle. Is that you, you do the things you, you’ve always done, right? Yeah. And then how do you, you know, did that come just from somebody’s like, Hey, I’m gonna try using Slack, or was that straight from Josh or, 2 (52m 11s): Yeah, you know, I don’t really know who figured it out Dave. Like, you know, but, but I don’t remember if it was Josh. I don’t remember, or, or what kid figured it out, but yeah. Somebody, somebody had figured it out and once we, once we figured it out, like it was like, all right, there we are. Yep. And so it was just kind, you’re all, it’s, it’s not a whole lot of slack either, right? Like it’s just enough. Just enough. Right, 1 (52m 33s): Right. Yeah. It’s not like you’re Yeah. You got a huge belly in the line. 2 (52m 36s): Yeah. So it’s, it’s, it is just those little nuances, right. That, that make a difference. And so, you know, I was super proud of the, the kids and or Josh or whoever figured that out. And you know, like I said, and we talked to the other competitors afterwards ’cause they asked us what we were doing and you know, we just kind of told them, you know, like, oh, we were giving ’em slack. Yeah, you did. You know, and so just, just great learning experiences like that. And there’s, there’s a ton of other things, right? Like, like that too, Dave, you know, that like, there are little nuances Yeah. Where you can change your drift or you can do these little bitty things that make a huge difference, you know? And it may not be from, you know, go from catching, you know, 50 fish to zero fish, but it’s definitely from catching, you know, catching 50 fish versus catching 35 fish, you know? 2 (53m 22s): And so those, those little things make a, make a big difference 1 (53m 25s): And it all adds up. I think I was listening to Josh’s podcast, which is coming out soon, and he was talking in that one about how, kind of a similar thing, right? It’s not, he, he was talking about getting that first win. Yeah. You know, you come to a new place or something in the, and he’s like, don’t, don’t stress on it, just go in there and use your confidence. Just get your first win. Yeah. Get a fish, doesn’t matter what it is, you know, and, you know, it makes a lot of sense because it kind of breaks the, the worst thing is, and I know this well because I’m a steelhead Fishman, you know what I mean? Like getting skunk right is on your mind and then you start talking to yourself like, oh man, am I gonna ever see a fish? Are there fish even out there? You know what I mean? And you’re in this world of like, there’s a lot of that, that mental thing, energy. Like, do you find that’s true? Do you believe in all that 2 (54m 5s): Stuff? Like that can affect percent? Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s one of those things, we talk about that all the time. Like if I go to a new brewer, the first thing I’m gonna do is go to the fishies looking place I can find and catch one. You know what I mean? Like, and that came from Josh. 100%. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think, you know, the mental aspect of everything, you know, which is why I said like being a cheerleader, right? Like, you know, is, is is part of it. And, and even up top, right? Like, you know, when Josh and I are talking through stuff, trying to figure stuff out or Josh is like, should we do this? You know what I mean? I’m just try to help, you know, navigate those situations. 1 (54m 41s): Do you guys have the, I I always think of the, of course fly fishing, you would never see this, but like the board, right? You got the whiteboard out there and you’re diagramming some stuff. Is that coming out on these 2 (54m 49s): Events? I mean, almost, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, yeah. You know, pretty much every day after we get done, we sit down and we talk and it’s like, okay, what are we doing here? What we’re doing here, you know, everybody puts Inly that was their most productive for that day, or what, you know what I mean? We’re always trying to like, you know, Paul Bork had the mentality of, it was like, they call it team metal mentality, right? So we’re trying to do whatever we can for the team to medal, like whether that means individually or not. So like, you know, it is, I think that’s one reason why the youth team works so great is because all those kids, you know, are fishing together as a team, right? Like it’s, it’s not about one person. It’s not about, you know, they’re just trying to win a team medal. 2 (55m 32s): So that’s, that’s, that’s what we’re going for. 1 (55m 34s): Well this is exciting. I think Jess, we can probably leave it there. We’ll send everybody out to the mayfly project.com or us angling.org. Yeah. And yeah man, this is exciting. I think it’s gonna be a fun, it’s gonna be fun to watch this, especially this year, how it’s in our home, you know, home, rivers home, home country and, and see how this works out. But yeah, man, appreciate all your time today and we’ll look forward to watching the event here in the summer. Yes 2 (55m 57s): Sir. Appreciate you Dave. Thanks for having me. 1 (55m 59s): If you get a chance and you’re interested in hearing more about this heading out, if you’re gonna be in the eastern Idaho area, check in with Jess and the crew out there. You can go to us angling.org, get more information there, or check in with Jess online. Let ’em know you heard this podcast and if you wanna volunteer, they’re always looking for volunteers. So great opportunity to see some of the best out there, not only the youth, but the women’s this year. Find out more and, and dig into it. I wanna give you a heads up. Next week we are launching into the Project Heating Waters event. We mentioned Project Heating Waters Down the White River, Chad Johnson. We’re gonna be giving away a trip and so if you’re interested in finding out more, stay tuned next week and we’re gonna have a podcast that talks about everything we have going and we’ll follow up with you in more detail. 1 (56m 43s): Thanks for checking out Travel today. I hope you live that dream trip this year and you get a chance to experience that road less traveled.
Conclusion with Jess Westbrook on the Mayfly Project
This episode with Jess Westbrook offers a powerful look into the mission, growth, and heart behind The Mayfly Project and Team USA Youth Fly Fishing. Whether you’re passionate about mentorship, competitive angling, or simply want to understand how fly fishing can change lives, Jess’s insights underscore the importance of community, skill-building, and emotional resilience.
Are you ready to discover how fly fishing can do more than catch fish—it can transform futures?
