Fly Tying Travel with Dave Allison at the East Idaho Fly Tying Expo(Traveled #41)

00:00:00 Dave: Some skills are learned quickly, others are built over years. You can’t rush proportions, you can’t shortcut material control, and you can’t fake the kind of understanding that only comes from tying thousands of flies one after another. Today’s guest is tied at shows all over the west, from Albany to East Idaho to Bellevue, where he’ll sit down and tie fifty flies a day, give most of them away, and spend as much time as he can teaching proportions, thread control and everything you need to tie flies. This is the travel podcast series where we bring you to the best places to travel to and fish in the West, and the stories of how the region became what it is today. Dave Allison is here and he’s going to be talking about the East Idaho Fly Fishing Expo that’s coming up here. We’re going to find out what he’s going to be tying there, including some of the walleye wing patterns. We’re going to talk about, uh, Quigley’s film critic and the hackle stacker, some of his influences there. We’re going to find out why he modified the hackle stacker. And, uh. And what he and how he made it unique. We’re going to talk about the difference between tying and fishing. Uh, different flies. He focuses on dry flies. So we’re definitely going to get into that conversation today. We’re gonna find out about Kelly Gallops, found Link pattern and why this has become a confidence pattern for Dave. Uh, lots of good stuff, including some of his influences. Going back to Dave MacPhail, uh, the Norvis and Norm Norlander. This is going to be a good one. I want to let you know that this episode is presented by Visit Idaho and Yellowstone, Teton Territory, home to some of the most diverse and wild trout waters in the West. All right, let’s get going. Here we go. Dave. Allison, how you doing, Dave. 00:01:46 Allison: I’m doing good. Dave. How are you? 00:01:48 Dave: Not too bad, not too bad. I’m glad we’re finally able to put this together. It’s been many years. It feels like. I think the first time I saw you was at the, uh, the Albany fly tying Expo, like, many years ago and we chatted. I think we did a little video or something, but we talked about the podcast and now you’re getting ready to, I think, head out to the East Idaho fly tying expo and and all that. But yeah, it’s been a little while, right? Do you remember that first year when we connected? 00:02:12 Allison: Yeah, that was before Covid, uh, in Albany. And, uh, yeah, I think there were like two hundred fly tyers there. And, uh, you came over, I think you did a video. Um, and actually, that is the next show is the Albany show that comes before East Idaho. 00:02:28 Dave: Oh it does. That’s right. 00:02:30 Allison: Well, I hope I’m right about that. 00:02:33 Dave: That’s right. Yeah. The Albany show. Yeah. You got that. And then the East Idaho is I think it’s kind of the third week of, uh, weekend in March. Right. Right. 00:02:42 Allison: East Idaho and then the and then the Salt Lake, uh, the Wasatch show. And that’ll that’ll end the year for me. 00:02:48 Dave: That’ll be it. Nice. Well, we’re going to get a little update on you on the show season. I ran into you at uh, up at Bellevue, which was cool. We chatted there for a little bit and we’re gonna and then we’re going to talk about trout flies. Maybe get some tips and tricks out of you for tying those little beautiful little flies that you tie and all that. So but yeah, maybe just take us back first. What are you what have you been tying? I know you’ve got your flies. What do you how do you describe to people who haven’t seen what you do? What’s your focus? 00:03:14 Allison: Well, you know, my focus is for tying is, uh, dry flies. Uh, trout flies. And I tie things that are, you know, interesting to me, you know, I mean, as far as, you know, what I tie to fish, you know, here, in here on the Bitterroot in Montana, you know, in a couple of weeks, I’ll be tying Scala’s, you know, foam Scala’s like a maniac. And then salmon flies. But, uh, you know, I don’t tie that kind of thing at shows. Um, I tie things that are not as common, you know, things that, uh, people, um, I mean, let’s face it, you know, you can catch every, every fish you want to catch in a mayfly hatch on a parachute. Adams. But there’s a lot of flies that, um, you know, will catch the same fish, but they’re just not as common. You know, the the hackle stackers and the, um, uh, you know, the Wally wings with the turkey, you know, which is makes it so much more durable than the original version. And, um, so I like to tie, you know, things that, you know, people, people may have seen or things that, you know, require, you know, like a little trick, you know, in order to, to make them come out right, you know, like hackle stackers, you know, the way Bob Quigley tied that fly originally, he used his thread to make the loop to wrap the hackle around. And I would tie him like that. And then when I would get done, I would end up putting a piece of, you know, para post on the fly after I was finished tying so that I could see it. And then one day it just dawned on me, why don’t I use the para post for the loop. Wrap my hackle around that. And then when I finished the fly, I’ve got a built in post, right? I can see the fly, you know, I don’t know if I don’t know if Bob Quigley would approve, but, um, it sure made sense to me. So, you know, and a lot of people haven’t seen that before. So, you know, little things like that that are, you know, that fly tyers, you know, figure out just by tying, you know, thousands of flies. So. 00:05:24 Dave: Right, right. And as Bob Quigley, is he still around? 00:05:27 Allison: No, no, he passed away. Um, I may not have this right, but I think it was around two thousand and three. 00:05:35 Dave: Oh, yeah. A long time ago, quite a while. 00:05:36 Allison: He. Yeah. You know, he gave us the Quigley cripple, the the hackle stacker and the film critic, which is kind of a combination, uh, really well engineered flies. I mean, when you really break them down and how how to tie them, they’re just so well engineered and and, uh, so much thought went into it. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. So I, I really appreciate things like that. 00:06:02 Dave: Right. What is the when you say, uh, well engineered, what does that mean for a dry fly? For a trout fly? How is that different than, say, some of these flies that maybe aren’t as engineered as well? 00:06:12 Allison: Well, there there’s just so many parts and pieces, you know, like he had two tails. Um, he had a short tail and then an adult tail. And then your body material, um, you know, it’s an emerger. So you don’t really want to, uh, a super buoyant body material, right? You want it to hang. And then the way he does the wing bud and the post, uh, you know, wrapping the hackle, the way he stacks the hackle. Um, you know, there’s a lot going on up at the eye of that hook. And so I did a video on, uh, Tim Commisso’s website. 00:06:50 Dave: Oh. You did? 00:06:51 Allison: Yeah. That was also before before Covid. So it’s been a while. Sure. Um, we were going to get together and and do a fly tying video and then Covid happened. So we had to do it remotely. Um, but I’m pretty sure it’s still up on his channel, but it was, uh, it was a film critic video. And, uh, I got pretty deep in the woods on that one, so that’s awesome. 00:07:13 Dave: Yeah. So you did a video with Tim. We’ll find a link to that, and then we’ll get in the show notes so people can take a look. That’s good. Yeah, I see it right here. Uh, looks like it’s still out there going strong. Okay, cool. And so that’s. Yeah. Bob Quigley, we’ve got those patterns. And so you and then you tie and you described another one you mentioned with the maybe talk about the wings. I think that’s something you’ve done differently. 00:07:35 Allison: Okay. Well so this is something I can’t take credit for. But, um, I have a really good friend in Utah. His name was Paul Shurtliff or is Paul Shurtliff really good fly tyer? And, um, you know, um, we both really liked the Wally. Wings. But, you know, tied in their original version with the duck. It was a beautiful fly, but completely impractical, like, you know, one fish that flies toast, you know, one, one cutthroat tooth and that, uh, I mean, so it was a it was a it was a pretty fly that, you know, wasn’t you wasn’t really for fishing and so talked about, you know, another feather to use maybe. And he actually came up with the turkey flat and he had tied a fly for the, I think it was the Wasatch show and it was a parachute Wally wing and it one fly of the expo. And he got that, he got it on the the pin the next year for the show. Uh, but it was genius. And um, you know, it’s Turkey has got a much more substantial stem. So, you know, you got to deal with that with the duck feather. You can just tie all of that stuff in and then cut it off. But with the turkey, you’ve got to remove that stem first. It’s just too it’s too big and thick to be able to, you know, you got to get rid of it. So he figured all that out and, uh, we sat and tied a bunch of them and, uh, so yeah, I, I continue to go to shows and tie it, but, uh, I can’t take credit for the idea. 00:09:12 Dave: And what is the flight called? 00:09:14 Allison: It’s just a Wally wing tied with a turkey feather instead of a instead of a duck. 00:09:19 Dave: Yeah. What is the Wally wing? What is that exactly? 00:09:22 Allison: Well, a Wally wing is, um. It’s, uh, I think they’re. I think that fly originated in, I want to say Norway or one of the Scandinavian countries, um, and, um, and it’s just a, it’s a matched pair of wings. And basically you tie, tie the feather in, you kind of, um, it’s kind of hard to describe, but you take your feather and you kind of Christmas tree it and so that you’ve got a tip, uh, section and then you’ve got your, your the rest of the feather pulled down. And then when you tie it in, you take a barbule off of either side of the tip feather and strip it down the stem, and it forms two separate wings. And, um, it’s, uh, you know, it’s not an unknown, unknown fly. I don’t see a lot of people at shows tying them. The problem with doing it with the duck was that it sometimes at the end of the fly, when you go to strip it, the duck wouldn’t strip. Whereas with the, um, with the turkey feathers, they always strip. So. 00:10:28 Dave: Gotcha. So basically at the shows and you’re like we mentioned, you’re going to multiple shows. You typically describe that. What do you how does that work for you. Let’s just take it to the East Idaho show when you go there. What can people expect? Do you kind of tie a couple of these per day, tie a bunch of different patterns, or what do you focus on? 00:10:45 Allison: Well, uh, it’s it’s just kind of the mood. Um, you know, I ty, uh, I tie a lot of flies, actually. Um, well, I mean, at the shows, I’m tying. You know, I bet you I’m tying at least fifty flies a day. 00:11:01 Dave: Oh, wow. 00:11:02 Allison: Um. And I give them away. You know, if people sometimes people will come up and ask me to tie something or they’ll sit down, you know? You know, usually when people walk by, you know, they’ll start the conversation. I’ll ask them if they’re a fly tyer and and then I’ll ask them what kind of flies they tie. And sometimes people will sit down and say specifically like, you know, I’m having trouble. You know, I’m just getting into this and I’m trying to tie a parachute. Adams and and I’m having some troubles and I’ll. So I’ll tie one for them and kind of show them the little tricks, you know, how to set the tail, how to, you know how to finish, you know, uh, which is usually where people have problems is learning how to finish a parachute at home. So I, I teach him the, the the quick and quick and dirty way and uh, you know, so there’s sometimes there’s a lot of that sometimes people will sit and, you know, look at my display and ask me to tie a particular fly. Um, or sometimes they’ll just sit and watch and see what I’m doing. You know, I, uh, but I’m just kind of. I’m just kind of doing my own thing. Um, another fly that I’ve, uh. I’ve been tying quite a bit at the shows this year is, um, it’s a Kelly Gallup fly. It’s called the found link. 00:12:21 Dave: Oh, yeah. The found link. 00:12:22 Allison: Yeah, it’s kind of a take off on Mercer’s missing link. And it’s a it’s kind of a strange fly. It floats really well. And it’s got, it’s kind of a caddis pattern with a tail. And I’ve thrown them for caddis and I’ve thrown them for mayflies and, and it’s like it’s fast becoming like a confidence fly, you know, it’s like one of those flies that’s it’s not only fun to tie it shows, but it’s actually, you know, fish is really well. 00:12:52 Dave: So how is it different than the missing link? Because it looks a lot like the missing link, right? 00:12:56 Speaker 3: It looks a lot like. 00:12:57 Allison: The missing link. But so the main difference is the missing link uses hackle. So at the wing, uh, so you’re basically kind of doing like an elk hair caddis head and you’re tying a hackle. So where you tie your hair down and you’ve got the back part for your wing and the front part for your head, you wrap a hackle around that base, kind of a parachute style. And, uh, the The Foundling doesn’t have any hackle on it. Um, but what is different is that it’s, um, it’s got a long adult tail and really long. And that’s something that, you know, when I tie dry flies, I know, you know, we all know mayflies have three tails, but on a fly, you know, if you just put three strands of Coke De Leon or something like that, it looks great, but it doesn’t hold the back end of the fly up, you know? So on a fly, the tail is not as much anatomical as it is an outrigger. You know what I mean? So, you know, so it actually you can’t, you know, putting three strands of coke on in the back end of your flies down in the water. So you kind of gotta put a substantial tail on these flies, you know, it’s just it’s my opinion. I’m sure other people disagree but so but the the found link has a long, really long adult tail. And then it’s got like a kind of like a stimulator tail. And the body is, is deer hair and it’s flared right at the base of the base of the adult tail. And, but you, you do very loose wraps on the body so that you don’t squeeze all that air out of those hair fibers. And that, I think, is what helps it float. And then it’s got. And then it’s got spinner wings like spent mayfly wings coming off the sides, which is a whole different direction. And then, you know, and then it’s got the, uh, the caddis wing on top and some, you know, a dubbed thorax. And uh, and so it’s just, you know, a bunch of crazy stuff all put together, but, you know, it works. It’s like one of those flies. You look at it and you think like, how did, uh, Kelly come up with this fly? And obviously the the missing link gave him, you know, the start, but he refined it and said, you know, I like the spinner wings, I like the tail, I like, you know, and boom, all of a sudden, you know, and if I and if I tie the body loose, it’ll float better than if I don’t. And next thing you know, bingo. Jed’s a millionaire, right? Wow. 00:15:36 Dave: That’s a good one. 00:15:37 Allison: So, uh. Yeah. So I like tying, you know, I like tying stuff like that. And but, uh, you know, it’s, uh, you know, when I first started doing this, you know, guys like me were king because we went to tons of shows, and now it’s the kids that have thirty thousand followers on Instagram. 00:15:57 Dave: Right. Well, I guess it depends on who. Yeah, who you’re chatting with. Right. But yeah, definitely. I think it’s still it’s kind of cool because I mean, do you see any of that out there? Do you look at that. I’m not even sure on Instagram. There’s probably some people that are maybe new to it and tie in. Um, but do you. Yeah. Do you see some of that, do you follow that? 00:16:14 Allison: Well I do, here’s what I see is that, you know, I, I got started doing this, I don’t know, twenty, ten, eleven somewhere around there. And, you know, because I was at so many shows, people would, uh, you know, come up and ask me to, you know, be an ambassador, be on their pro team, and then all of a sudden, you know, it’s like now it’s like the the newer companies that are coming out, you know, like the you know, Renault is a good example. They’re making these great scissors, they’re polish. You know, the guys that are on the rental med Pro team are the guys that have the huge Instagram followings. And guys like me, you know, it’s like, uh, yeah. You know. Right. 00:16:58 Dave: Right. So yeah, the social has not been a focus for you getting your increase in your following. 00:17:02 Allison: I’m sixty six years old, you know, uh, that’s not my, uh. 00:17:07 Dave: Yeah. It’s not your not your, uh, wheelhouse. Yeah. Uh, it is interesting because, I mean, I think that some people are really love it and are really good at the social media stuff. And there’s a lot of people that are kind of like, well, yeah, I mean, it’d be okay if it wasn’t around, you know what I mean? Like, there’s there’s that. 00:17:23 Allison: I’m not against it. It’s just that, you know, I mean, I’m just not that concerned with how many people like me, you know? 00:17:30 Dave: Right? 00:17:31 Allison: I mean, if you meet me, I think you’ll like me. But, you know, it’s, uh. I mean, now my Instagram has got as much woodworking and as it has fish porn on it, you know. So. 00:17:40 Dave: Right. 00:17:41 Allison: Um, just whatever I’m into. 00:17:43 Dave: Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s cool, you know, I think cool for me and us to be able to, you know, kind of tap into this because there’s a lot of people that are in your age range that have a ton of knowledge, you know, that, you know, we were trying to share. Right. And these things are some of these flies, like the Wally Wing. I mean, I bet there’s a ton of people haven’t even heard of this thing, right? This style or whatever, or, you know, some of these flies. But but let’s, um, tell me a couple. So we’ve talked Wally Wing, we’ve talked Quigley’s we’ve talked the found link. What are a few other ones that you might be tying? Say, you know, coming up at the Albany and the East Idaho Expo. What what are some other patents? Because I know on your table you had the little wood with a few, uh, like a dozen flies sitting there. 00:18:23 Allison: So I, uh, yeah, there’s and there’s a couple of flies on my display that I don’t bring the things to tie them. I had a, um, you know, I used to tie some Davey McPhail stuff just because I thought it was cool. Um, and I’ve got that stuff, and people recognize it, but I don’t necessarily tie those shows up. I do tie, um, I tie some of mergers. I tie, you know, cripples and I tie, I tie the film critic and, um, let’s see, I’ve done, um, there’s a stimulator pattern that I was tying. Um, it’s a it’s basically a pheasant tail stimulator, and it’s just such a great, uh, great looking fly, and it fishes really well, and I apologize. I’m I’m I’m I see. 00:19:12 Dave: His. 00:19:12 Allison: Face, but I’m losing his name, and I what I hate to do, you know, I’m not one of those guys that like, if I come up, if I change a couple of components, I don’t rename the fly. 00:19:22 Dave: Right. 00:19:23 Allison: It’s mine. Yeah. Um, and I always, I think it’s really important to give credit where credit is due. Um, even when I was doing a lot of YouTube videos for for Norvis and Semper Fi. You know, I always, you know, make sure that people understand that this is somebody else’s, you know, pattern. Um, and I’m just tying it. And for the life of me, I can’t remember his name. 00:19:47 Dave: No worries. 00:19:48 Allison: But it’s a great fly. 00:19:50 Dave: So it’s a stimulator. So you’re typically a little bit of a different take on a stimulator. 00:19:54 Allison: It’s a stimulator with a pheasant tail body, and, um, it’s got a light wire rib, and it’s. 00:20:00 Dave: Just a. 00:20:01 Allison: It’s just a great looking fly. Um, and, um, you know, so it doesn’t have the, the traditional, you know, the hackle and stuff like that around the body, but it’s, um, it’s just a real finished looking fly. And, um, you know, I take the time to, um, to make the, the front hackle around the head, you know, like, just try to make it look like a brush. 00:20:25 Dave: Okay. 00:20:26 Allison: Um, and, you know, and also to, you know, in, in fly tying, it shows, you know, when I’m, when I’m going fishing, I’m not tying flies like that. Like I’m not stripping off half the hackle. So I get that perfect brush, right? You know, it’s it’s quick and dirty and we’re going fishing. Um, so there’s a big difference between Showtime and what I’m actually tying to go fish. 00:20:50 Dave: Yeah, that makes sense. 00:20:51 Allison: You know, when I’m tying, it shows I’m trying to do. You know, I’m trying. I’m trying to be as perfect as I can. And, um, sometimes it’s just for demonstration, and sometimes it’s for teaching. You know, it depends on who’s in front of you. 00:21:05 Dave: Yeah, that’s what’s cool. I think what’s cool about the shows is that, you know, they can go there and they can, you know, sit for those that haven’t been there, they can just stand or sit right in front of you and watch you tie flies. And the cool thing is, they could even ask questions and maybe even get a fly tied, right? I think that’s the power of the fly tying expose, is that you’ve got that one on one connection with these great fly tyer, right? And some of them, I think at East Idaho and Albany there’s hundreds of fly tyers, right. 00:21:28 Allison: Well there are. So that’s the difference between like the corporate shows like the forensic shows like Bellevue and Denver and and the East Coast shows. Uh, Atlanta, Pleasanton. You know, there those are great fly tying fly fishing shows. But if you notice, I mean, how many tires were at Bellevue? Twenty. 00:21:47 Dave: Yeah, there’s not as many. Yeah, there was like a dozen or twenty. Yeah. Right there on the right. 00:21:51 Allison: And so there’s a reason for that, you know, um, you know, when I, when I started doing those shows, you know, I had the jury, I had to send some flies in. Um, I had to be sponsored. I had to be a pro team Tire and and, uh, then, yeah, there’s only twenty some tires. And then there, if you notice, the tables are very high and there’s no chairs across from you. 00:22:15 Dave: Right, right. There’s no chairs. 00:22:17 Allison: And so people and that’s, you know, maybe that’s designed to keep people from just hanging out. Oh, right. And, uh, so, you know, how long can you stand and watch somebody tie? 00:22:29 Dave: Yeah. 00:22:30 Allison: Um, and then at the club shows, you know, the club shows are like the the two chapters, the FFA chapters. You know, I was part of the Wasatch show for I was the two president for the high Country Fly Fishers in Park City, Utah, and the president of the Salt Lake Chapter Stonefly Society. Uh, Scott Antonetti and I, we ran the the Wasatch show for six years. And, um, and so, you know, and those are those are club shows there, you know, we raffle and we do all kinds of things to raise money. And then at the end, we count up our expenses and hopefully we’ve made a little bit of money for conservation projects. Whereas, you know, the fly fishing show, the shows, you know, they’ve they’ve kind of made their money when the door opened. It’s a business. And um, it’s not um, you know, they’re not, they’re not hoping they’re, they know. And so at the club shows, um, you know, generally we have a big, you know, rectangle of tables with tires on the inside, and then you got four chairs across from you, and people sit and, you know, sometimes people, you know, they hang out for a long time. 00:23:45 Dave: Yeah. They do. Right. Yeah. Sometimes they’re hanging out. That’s that’s awesome. 00:23:50 Allison: Yeah. They’re just, uh, they just got nowhere else to be, right? And, uh. 00:23:54 Dave: Which is cool. 00:23:55 Allison: Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s a whole different vibe, for sure. It’s definitely more relaxed and, uh, and, uh, it’s kind of like being a barber. You sit down and people start telling you about their wives and their kids and their jobs and, you know. 00:24:08 Dave: Right. 00:24:09 Allison: You find yourself tying flies and giving marital advice all. 00:24:12 Dave: Day when you go to the, uh, let’s just take the, you know, the East Idaho. Would you go there? Do you how many of the people do you know that are coming up and sit at the table? Is it like a more you don’t know or, you know, a lot of people. 00:24:24 Allison: Well it’s I, I definitely There’s some that I mean, I recognize a lot, but a lot of it is. I mean, even at this show in Bellevue, um, you know, people come up and say, hey, I saw you in Denver four years ago. I saw you in, you know, they follow me on Instagram and, uh, you know, how’s the woodworking going? I look up at him and it’s like, you know, but, you know, I can’t, you know, maybe it’s just, uh, being sixty six years old, but I can’t really remember all the people. But, you know, there’s something about them that’s familiar. And then once they tell me a little bit, it’s like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, that’s right. Um, you know, there was a guy at Bellevue that I’d met at the old Ellensburg show, uh, way before Covid. That show doesn’t it’s not in existence anymore. But he grew up in Lubbock, Texas, where I grew up. 00:25:16 Dave: Oh, wow. 00:25:17 Allison: And, uh, I hadn’t seen him in forever. And he comes up, he goes, you don’t remember me, do you? And I’m. 00:25:21 Dave: Like. 00:25:22 Allison: And then sure enough, you know, um, he’s also a fly tyer and, um, and, a pretty avid fisherman, but, uh, you know, so it’s it’s there’s that that great connection that’s there, you know, it’s, uh, people that, you know, fly tyers. I mean, if you’re going to the trouble to go to a show, you know, it’s usually there’s a little bit of out of pocket expense. There’s, you know, I mean, I drive eight hours to Seattle, I drive ten hours to Albany. Um, there’s some effort and then. But you do it because you love it, and then you have an audience of people that really appreciate what you do. So it’s just, you know, it’s just such a positive thing. And, and it’d be a shame to ever lose it. I mean, during Covid, I remember when the when the shows just fired back up, what was it, twenty twenty two or three, maybe twenty three. I mean, everybody was so glad to get back to see each other. I mean, we, you know. 00:26:23 Dave: It’s like. 00:26:24 Allison: You know, we all I mean, because it’s kind of if you go to enough shows, you see the same people kind of, you know, I mean, I mean, it’s like a traveling band of carnies, right? And, and so we actually we actually missed each other, you know. And, uh. 00:26:40 Dave: It was pretty cool. 00:26:41 Allison: I mean, I’ll never tell Phil Raleigh that I miss him, but I miss him. 00:26:45 Dave: Yeah, I think it’s pretty cool. I think the shows circuit and season is cool and it’s good for everybody. Yeah. You guys connecting, then? Everybody who wants to learn, they’re able to come out there and for a pretty small price to get in, you know, especially for the, you know, the Albany and the, you know, East Idaho Expos. Right. It’s not too much to get in there to support. And you’re supporting a good nonprofit too, right? That’s the other thing that’s cool. 00:27:06 Allison: Sure. And it’s you know, it’s the connection. I mean, it’d be a shame if all fly tying went to YouTube. 00:27:12 Dave: Yeah. 00:27:13 Allison: You know. 00:27:13 Dave: That wouldn’t be good. 00:27:14 Allison: It’s a great it’s a great medium and but but there’s just something about. 00:27:20 Dave: Yeah. 00:27:20 Allison: You know. 00:27:21 Dave: You need both. You need both. It’s kind of like the, um, it’s like books, you know, books of, you know, with all the blogs and everything that’s changed online, you know, books still aren’t going away and even magazines aren’t going. It’s just changing, you know, same with the show. Like, yeah, we’re not going to be all YouTube videos without, you know, be like robots out there, right? It would be. 00:27:39 Allison: Right, right. 00:27:40 Dave: So but you mentioned the family. I want to go back to that because I think that’s interesting about the transition. You talked about how, before you name it, something else and Kelly’s example, you know, he named it something very similar. So everybody knows where it came from. But he did call it a different name. So like he changed something substantial. What do you have to change on a fly do you think to make it substantial enough to. 00:27:59 Allison: Well, that’s that’s a really good point, isn’t it? I mean, it’s like, um, I was talking to, uh, um, Tim Flagler about, you know, the Purple haze, you know, which is, uh, a fly that is credit is given to a guide here on the Bitterroot River here in Montana, where I live. And, uh, what did he do? He changed the color of the body. 00:28:22 Dave: Is that it? Yeah. That’s it. 00:28:23 Allison: Well, it’s a parachute. Adams. 00:28:25 Dave: Yeah. Which is the color, right? 00:28:26 Allison: Uh, there’s another fly here called the brindle chute. That another tire here in the Bitterroot claims is his fly. It’s a parachute, Adams. It’s got a tail. It’s got a parachute, it’s got a hackle. It’s got a body, you know, but they you know, and I don’t know, for me, I’m just not that I figure that anything you could come up with, somebody is probably already tied. 00:28:51 Dave: Yeah. That’s right. 00:28:52 Allison: Right. It’s kind of like rock and roll. There’s probably nothing that’s really original. Um. And I just don’t have that, you know, that I try to be a little humble about this. I’m just, you know, I’m. I’m a copier. You know? I see somebody. 00:29:07 Dave: That I love. Yeah. 00:29:08 Allison: And I try to reproduce it to their stand. You know, I don’t like to take a fly and say, well, you know, so and so tied this fly. I think it would be better if you did this, you know, because I think that’s a little disrespectful. I like if I’m tying it, I like to tie it the way it was tied. Other than, you know, the hackle stacker, which I actually changed a little bit to incorporate the, the post and, uh, but I do it with all respect, you know, um, and I tell people that too, I say, you know, I always show them this is the way Bob Quigley did this, and and I just replaced it with this because at the end, I’d like to be able to see this fly when I cast it, you know, fifty feet down river. Um. 00:29:52 Dave: That’s it. Who were some of those, uh, you mentioned Bob? Uh, and some other folks. David McPhail. Are there a few others that have been out there that when you first started getting going, you were kind of learning from those tires? 00:30:04 Allison: Yeah. There were um, I mean, David Fell was like, you know, I mean, he was like, uh, Jesus to me, you know. 00:30:11 Dave: Right. What did David do? That was because the same for me. When I saw David the first time, I was like, whoa, what was he doing differently than than others out there? 00:30:20 Allison: Well, you know, I mean, it was a combination of stuff. I mean, you know, the accent was great, you know? 00:30:25 Dave: Yeah. 00:30:26 Allison: Trying to understand them, you know, tidy up the waste. It’s gonna fly, you know? 00:30:29 Dave: Right. 00:30:30 Allison: But, uh, he’s just such a clean tire, and it just for some reason, it just made me want to tie that, you know? But I’ll my some of my early influences were, um. I mean, most everybody in the fly fishing world knows who Marty Howard is, and Marty is my neighbor. Um, actually, when I. Well, not now, but, you know, when I. When I retired from veterinary medicine, I moved to Park City, Utah. Marty actually pulled me over one day. He was a motorcycle cop, which a lot of people. Oh, wow. And, uh, he was kind of a too, but. But then when he stopped being a cop, he became a good guy. 00:31:07 Dave: Oh. No kidding. 00:31:08 Allison: No, I’m just kidding. He was just, uh. He wasn’t warm and fuzzy when he pulled me over that day, but. 00:31:15 Dave: Right. 00:31:16 Allison: But his son, he has a son named Trevor. And Trevor was a guide and worked at a fly shop in Park City. And, uh, he just young guy and, uh, he just, uh, he would, you know, he would have to pass my house to go home from work every day. He would stop and spend a couple hours tying with me and, uh, really, you know, like, just getting the basics going, you know, learning proportions and material handling and thread management and all the stuff that kind of goes into tying any fly, you know? Trevor was instrumental. Marty was as well. Um, and those guys were, were really big, uh, you know, influences on me. And then, you know, uh, Curtis and, uh, and cheats, you know, I met them before. Fly fish food. Really? Um, um, you know, they were they still had day jobs and, um, and they were just great guys. They were so gracious and so giving of their time, actually. Uh, we used to have this outdoor show, um, in Heber. And what the, uh, I forget what it’s called. The Heber out. It was an outdoor fly fishing show. It was a little show. It went on for about, I don’t know, five or six years. And I’m sitting at a table with Cheech, and I have no idea who he is. And I’m buying his stonefly, the Masked Marauder. 00:32:43 Dave: Oh, really? 00:32:44 Allison: And I’m tying that fly, and everybody’s, like, watching it. And I’m saying, yeah, this guy, I saw him on YouTube. His name’s Cheech. And it’s really cool because he pulls the thin skin over the beard or the over the bead and, and, uh, and he’s sitting there next to me, listening to me all day. 00:33:00 Dave: That’s hilarious. He didn’t tell you, didn’t even mention it. 00:33:03 Allison: And then he introduced. But he wasn’t a big deal back then. Right, right. I mean, they were they were not big, you know, and, uh, humble beginnings and, you know, what they’ve grown into and what they’ve done is, is amazing. And it’s been a, a pleasure to watch, but I, you know, I just appreciate I mean, Curtis used to help me a ton with, with my, uh, videoing and when I was doing some YouTube videos and, and just always so willing to, you know, give me a hand and, and, uh, teach also, you know, um, I mean, just great guys, but, uh, you know, I, I’ve learned a lot from both of them. And most people, you know, they think of Cheech as the fly tire. Curtis is a great fly tyer. You know, he’s got, like, he’s like the brains of the operation and she’s just the personality. But Curtis is an exceptional fly tyer. Yeah. And, um, and you know, both of them, I mean, it’s just, uh, um, you know, and, and guys and, you know, the bottom line is guys like that are great. Yeah. For this, this industry for they are to fly tying for the whole thing. Um, you know, there’s a whole generation of, of young fly fishermen that, you know, they they are like, you know, the old guys Jack Dennis and Randall Kaufman’s and and Gary Lafontaine and Mike Lawson’s, you know, those were the guys that that I looked at. And now there’s a whole generation of people that, you know, know Cheech and Curtis. 00:34:31 Dave: That’s right. Yeah. Curtis. Yeah. 00:34:33 Allison: And they’re keeping the ball rolling. And you know, I can’t I can’t say enough nice things about those guys. 00:34:38 Dave: That’s awesome. Yeah. No those are you mentioned all all guys that we’ve had on the podcast, you know, um, you know, and it’s been great. That’s and we just had Davey McPhail on the podcast too. And it was I found myself relistening to that podcast episode because of his accent and trying to imitate him. You know what I mean? It’s really funny. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I can’t I’m still no good at it, but, um. But good. So you that’s your influences and maybe take us back into. We were talking five so we got a bunch of cool patterns. If we made a list of the things you’ve talked about, it’s pretty awesome. And the cool thing is, again, people can go to the show, they can hit you up there. But what about like on, you know, tying tips? If we’re talking dry flies, what do you think? What are the the key things? People skills. You know, people should have when they’re tying or maybe. What are your biggest tips say on on tying dries like that’s a struggle for me for sure. 00:35:25 Allison: Yeah. So there’s, you know, there’s some materials that we have today. Um, um, I’ll give, uh, Semper Fly a little plug here. Um, they’re they’re eighty knot nano silk is such a game changer for dry flies, because you really never have to worry about creating bulk, right? Like, you know, if you watch, like, old dry fly videos, they talk about, you know, start your thread here, um, you know, and, and be economical in your wraps. And it’s all about not creating bulk. Well, when you’re tying with eighteen knot nano silk you can’t create bulk. I mean, you know, it’s just so. And you keep it nice and flat. You know, you have to learn if you’re doing deer hair, you have to keep your nano silk flat, because if you don’t, it’ll scissor that hair right off in your lap. 00:36:16 Dave: Wow. 00:36:17 Allison: Yeah. And, uh, so there’s there’s a little trick. 00:36:20 Dave: Yeah, there’s a trick right there. 00:36:21 Allison: Wow. And, uh, they have the, uh, the K-pop dubbing, which, you know, I’ve, I think I’ve probably tried every dry fly dubbing, you know, that I’ve ever seen. And I’ve never found one that I like as much. Uh, sometimes it clumps a little bit. Things like that. But not always. And, you know, you just. It just goes on so tight. It floats so well, and it’s, um. And so for, for dry fly, uh, tying, you know, the materials that you use are important, um, learning, you know, your proportions, uh, keeping keeping your eye clean. Um, you know, like some of the flies we talked about. I mean, the, you know, the front of the fly gets pretty busy a lot going on up there. So you got to keep that. Keep that in mind. 00:37:10 Dave: Um, do you have a little tip on that? On the eye? I clean. Do you have a certain distance? You like to kind of stop without any wraps or material? 00:37:17 Allison: Well, you know, it’s I, I learn it, I learn it by doing. I mean, you know, you you you tie it and all of a sudden you come to the end and you’re out of space and you can’t, you know, your whip finishes are now occluding your eye. And, and so you just, you just you figure it out. Yeah. You just gotta do it again. And I mean, you know, the one thing is, you know, with any fly you tie, you know, your tenth one is going to look a lot better than your first one. Right. And you’re just kind of figure some stuff out each time you go. So, so the key is just to get in there and start doing it and, um, you know, and learn from your mistakes. And, you know, it’s it’s very much muscle memory. I mean, for me, if I haven’t been on the bike for six months, as soon as I sit down and put my first wrap of thread on my first hook, it’s like I was tying yesterday. 00:38:09 Dave: No kidding. Yeah. You don’t lose anything. 00:38:11 Allison: No, no I don’t. It’s it’s just like riding a bike. 00:38:15 Dave: That’s cool. Do you find have the eyes. What has that been? Something that’s changed. I know for me, the the glasses and stuff has made, you know, a little bit. It’s changed, you know, changed things a little bit. 00:38:25 Allison: Yeah. It has. I, um, you know, I usually. So I’ve got some fly tying glasses now that I, it’s a they’re progressive’s. So I, you know, I’d sit down with my, uh, magnifiers on and then somebody would sit across from me and they were blurry. Um, and so I’ve got these glasses now they’re Ray-Bans, but they’re, they’re three hundreds in the bottom, and they progress up to two hundred at the top. So not only can I see what I’m tying, but I can see who I’m talking to. But, yeah, there’s. I tie a lot. Um, I have a dear friend from Park City. Uh, he’s an old Norvis guy. He’s been tying on a norvis forever, and, uh, his name’s John Schultz, and he’s. I think he’s fourteen years older than me or are twelve years older than me. He still doesn’t wear glasses. 00:39:13 Dave: Oh, wow. 00:39:14 Allison: Yeah. And, uh. 00:39:15 Dave: What’s his secret? 00:39:16 Allison: I think that it’s because he ties a lot of big Stillwater patterns, but, uh. But still, it’s like. 00:39:23 Dave: That’s pretty good. 00:39:24 Allison: I think he’s just showing off. Really? 00:39:26 Dave: Right. 00:39:27 Allison: He probably has secret contacts, and. 00:39:28 Dave: Yeah, he probably does. He probably does. Wow. And and then the norvis you mentioned a little bit the and you still tie on the Norvis. 00:39:36 Allison: I do, um, I started tying on the norvis when Norm was still around, and, uh, what a prince of a guy he was. You know, he was so grateful and thankful. I mean, every show, he couldn’t thank you enough for coming and tying on his vice and, you know, being an ambassador. And and he was, uh, I mean, you’d call him on Sunday and, you know, he’d pick up the phone on the second ring and you’d talk an hour about fishing first, and then it was like, no, now what do you need? And he always would send me things that he wanted me to have. You know, I remember when his mejores came out, he’s like, have you seen my mejores? And I’m like, yeah, I have. He says, have you tried them? I said, no, I’m still tying on the straight jaws and they’re fine. And and uh, so then I, I ordered whatever I was ordering and when my order showed up, guess what was in there? 00:40:31 Dave: Yeah. 00:40:31 Allison: He just he wanted me to have them, and and that’s the kind of guy he was. And, um, you know, and so for the all the old Norvis guys out there, that’s that was there. They were attracted to the vice. They were attracted to Norm. And I never I never have tied like Norm. I’m not a spinner. I’m, you know, I tie on the norvis like I would tie on a renzetti. Uh, and he used to say, you know, you could you could do some spam, like, you know, Norm, I’m teaching people that your vice is so versatile that you can even tie on it like a regal. 00:41:04 Dave: Exactly. It’s just. Yeah, it doesn’t have to be the spin, the spin. 00:41:08 Allison: He thought that was funny, but, uh, just, uh. 00:41:11 Dave: What is the on the spin? I guess I don’t think of that too much either, but I guess there are guys that tie and they spin and they’re faster. 00:41:18 Allison: Yeah. If you watch the videos on YouTube, I mean, he’s spinning dubbing on. He’s spinning, spinning, spinning. And he ties flies like, in seconds and and, uh, it’s just not how I tie, you know, I just, uh, I like his vice and and, uh, but I tie on it like a regular vice. I love I love his bobbins. I mean, I, I’m at a point where I, I cannot tie no matter what vice I tie on. I’m using those bobbins. 00:41:45 Dave: Yeah. Because the bobbins basically are they’ve got some mechanical thing where they actually they keep up the thread, they don’t let you, you don’t have to roll it up. 00:41:52 Allison: Yeah. They have a spring retractor in there. And people say, well, I don’t like them because when I let go all the thread winds up on me and it’s like, yeah, don’t let go. I mean. 00:42:01 Dave: Right, just hang on to it. 00:42:02 Allison: Yeah, that’ll happen to you a couple times and you’ll stop doing that. 00:42:06 Dave: Yeah, right. 00:42:07 Allison: Just like crowding the head. Right? 00:42:08 Dave: That’s cool. 00:42:09 Allison: You know. 00:42:10 Dave: Is there anybody at the shows that are tying on your vices that are doing a lot of the spinning? 00:42:15 Allison: Uh, you know, I don’t see a lot of people. I mean, the guys that, you know, when Norvis is at the shows, you know, it has a new owner now, and, uh, he’ll have people at the booth and they’ll be trying. They’ll be tying that way. They don’t. They don’t. Nobody does it quite like Norm did. But, uh. 00:42:32 Dave: Right. 00:42:32 Allison: Um, but, you know, John Schultz, um, he ties a lot of the. He’ll be at, uh, East Idaho and and Salt Lake. And he was at the Boise show. We sat next to each other, and he does some of that stuff, and he’s pretty much mainly a he’s like a Stillwater Yoda, you know, um, kick boat and, you know, uh, sinking lines. The guy is just a machine out there. But, um, but that’s what he ties. He ties Stillwater patterns and, uh, and they’re all mostly his, um, you know, some of the, uh, bill. Schiess the Henrys. Henrys Lake guy who ties some of his stuff. But, um. But yeah, he does a lot of that. Um, but, you know, there are some there’s a lot of, uh, guys that, um, you know, Ken Burkholder, people that go back years, I mean, decades on Norby and they don’t have, you know, thirty thousand followers on Instagram and they’ve, you know, it’s, um, it’s kind of sad because they don’t, um, you know, the company has gone in a different direction, it seems. And, uh, and, uh, is more geared towards the younger guys with all the followers and instead of, you know, um, remembering, you know, the guys that got him there. Right. Um, but there’s, you know, you’re sitting at a show and you’re, you’re, you know, you’re you’re an ambassador. You’re, you know, people ask you about your advice. They ask you about the materials, the hooks you use, the all this stuff. And, you know, you sit there and you, you tell them you know what you love about it. And, um, and, um, you know, you’re not knocking anything else. You’re just, you know, I love this stuff. That’s why I’m dying with this stuff. I could I could tie on any vice and use any material I want. This is what I choose, and this and this is why. And, uh, you know, and, uh, so you get some of these guys that have been tying for fifty years and, you know, they’ve got a lot to they got a lot to offer. 00:44:32 Dave: Definitely. No. That’s great. Well, you and you mentioned the, um, a few materials, except for the nano silk, the kapok. Are there a few others you’d throw on there that might maybe if we’re focusing on dry flies that, you know are your go to’s. 00:44:45 Allison: Yeah. For for dry flies. Um, you know, I use, um, I mean, I’m, I’m pretty much a hair and feather guy. Um, and so I tie with a lot of, um, you know, the, the saddle, um, saddle hackles, you know, the longer, longer hackles that are more consistent all the way through. I’m a huge Whiting guy. Um, you know, I love to get my dear hair from Blue Ribbon Fly shop in West Yellowstone. You know, from from cam. I mean, he’s got some of the best deer hair on the planet. Oh, nice. 00:45:17 Dave: Okay. 00:45:17 Allison: Um, and, uh, but, you know, I’m. I’m not a I’m not a big, synthetic, brightly colored guy. I tie with a lot of fur and a lot of feather, uh, um, you know, dry fly dubbing nano silk, you know, and, um, I’m. I, like doing my posts out of calf body, you know, calf body hair rather than para post. Um, but, you know, finding good long calf body hair is is a challenge. Um, there was, uh, at the Albany show a couple of years ago. There was a girl that showed up that I think her father was a commercial tire in Oregon, and he had passed away, and she brought Boxes of materials and they were like a dollar, a pack. I mean, and like, you know, old, old stuff. But it was I mean, it was like she had like a box of calf body hair, little packets for a buck. And it was just it was beautiful. You know, it was like a little gold mine. And, uh, um, and, uh, she was very popular at that show. 00:46:26 Dave: Right, right. That’s cool. That’s awesome man. So, you know, I remember too, Davey McPhail mentioning I think he does tie with some synthetics. I think he mentioned that he likes to mix, you know, synthetics with naturals. Do you remember seeing some of those videos that he did or talking about that? 00:46:42 Allison: Yeah, he did. And, um, I believe I may be mistaken about this, but I believe he also is a super fly guy. 00:46:51 Dave: Oh, yeah, I think you’re right. 00:46:52 Allison: Super fly is based out of London. So right there you have a you know, we do the fly jams on zoom and there’ll be, you know, eighty tires on there and and half of them are in Europe. And, uh, and you got all the Scottish guys and the German guys and the, you know, and, and you can’t understand a word they’re saying. 00:47:14 Dave: Yeah. It’s awesome. Nice. All right. So we’re gonna we’re gonna take it out here pretty quick. Uh, Dave. But we’re going to do our. This is a mouthful. Our Teton territory trout trivia question of the episode here. And so the way this is going to work is I’m going to ask a question, and and you don’t have to answer this. I think you’re probably going to know the answer, but the listeners can answer. All they have to do is go on to the post that we put on Instagram and at mention, um, Yellowstone, Teton Territory and wet fly swing and actually and you and give us a shout out it’d be at West Texas bugs as well. So if they mention that and then answer the question, and then we’re going to give away a little selection of flies of some of these dry flies we’ve been talking about here. So does that sound like a good plan here Dave? 00:47:55 Allison: Certainly. 00:47:56 Dave: Okay, so here’s the question. And so if you know the question again, I’ll go over there when this goes live on Instagram, and I’m going to choose whoever gets the right answer at random. So we’re going to just pick one winner. The question is which classic dry fly pattern was created on the Henry’s Fork, and remains a staple for selective trout in the Yellowstone Teton region. You mentioned I think you mentioned it in this episode, but there’s one fly that was created there. It’s a classic pattern, and I’ll give you well, let me just give three options the atoms, the Royal wolf, the Quigley cripple or the Elk Hair Caddis. And those are all great patterns. And so that’s the that’s the Teton Territory trout trivia for the day. As we get into this, as we get into our final segment here, Dave, what is you know, we mentioned a few patterns there. Um, what do you think are what did we miss today? What do you think are some of your dry fly? If you had to go to dry fly anywhere, whether it’s Utah or the Montana or the West, what are a few of those patterns? Have we not mentioned any that you would have in your box? 00:48:52 Allison: Well, um, the that found link has become like my, you know, my latest confidence fly. And I fished it on a bunch of different rivers, and it’s, uh, it’s a confidence fly because it gets eaten, you know, uh, that, I mean, you know, out here in Montana, everybody’s got a purple haze in their box. And, uh, you know, the, uh, you know, it’s funny, like, like on the green River in Utah, up at Dutch John. They’ve got a fly out there. They call it a triple double. And it’s basically the guy tied it. Uh, using it was like an old couch material from the fifties, like Herculean or something like that. And he would dub. So basically it’s an ant, right? It’s got a ring, a hackle, a dubbing ball, a ring, a hackle, a dubbing ball and a ring, a hackle. So they call it a triple double and it imitates an ant. They throw that fly for every hatch, right. It’s like yellow Sally’s are out. Throw a triple, double out. Throw a triple double. right? Yeah. Those guys up there, they just know that fly is catching fish. 00:50:00 Dave: Oh, wow. 00:50:00 Allison: Uh, here in Montana for mayflies, we have this fly called a brindle shoot. It’s basically, uh, it’s got a moose. Moose tail, calf post, uh, hackle, uh, grizzly hackle. And then it’s got this dubbing blend. It’s kind of a goldish greenish. It’s about four different, you know, it’s like a secret top secret mixture of the, uh, dubbing. And they throw that for every mayfly hatch out here. 00:50:28 Dave: No kidding. 00:50:28 Allison: And it works, right? I mean, it doesn’t matter. It’s just you tie em small, you time big. 00:50:33 Dave: Yeah, and it’s a parachute, right? It’s a parachute. 00:50:35 Speaker 4: It’s a parachute. 00:50:37 Allison: And they throw it for every hatch, and, uh. And it works. 00:50:41 Dave: Like the chubby Chernobyl. We’ve heard a lot about that one, too, right? The chubby is, like, thrown everywhere. Yeah. What about the stimulator? Are you still. It sounds like you’re still a big stimuli that. Cause that’s a Kaufman, right? Randall Kaufman pattern. 00:50:53 Allison: Uh, yeah, that’s. That is what I was always taught was that it was a Randall Kaufman pattern. I know there’s a there’s another guy that, uh, insists that he. And he, uh. 00:51:02 Dave: Oh. Is there. 00:51:03 Allison: Yeah, but I won’t get into that. 00:51:05 Dave: No. 00:51:06 Allison: Um, Randall Kaufman and. Yeah. So the Stemi is a great it’s a great pattern for throwing for, you know, like here on the Bitterroot, we have a hatch that’s going to take off. You know, with the winter we’ve had, it may be going now for all I know, but, uh, um, you know, uh, stemi’s can, you know, can imitate squalls, uh, they can imitate, uh, salmon flies. You time big enough. Um, you know, it’s a great fly. It floats great. It’s a great dry dropper fly because it’ll hold up any tungsten bead, you know, um, and I think it’s just one of those flies that, um, you know, does it look exactly like anything? You know? I mean, what is a royal wolf look like that hatches on the water? Not a thing. 00:51:51 Dave: No. 00:51:51 Allison: But, um, you know, it’s just it’s a very functional fly. Um, you can see it. It floats. It’ll. It’s a great dropper fly, you know, for putting a dropper underneath it. And, uh, so, yeah, I mean, there are certain flies that, you know, if you’re just getting into tying, you know, a parachute, Adams will cover all of your mayflies, you know, tied in a size eighteen for a blue wing or a size. 00:52:17 Dave: ten. 00:52:17 Allison: For a green drake and everything in between. So if you could get that in your arsenal, a Stemi in your arsenal, you know, in a, in some sort of caddis pattern, you. 00:52:27 Dave: Know, like the missing link or the found link. 00:52:29 Speaker 4: Oh, well. 00:52:30 Allison: Or or just an elk hair caddis. 00:52:32 Dave: Or an elk hair. What is the difference on the elk hair, the elk hair versus because the elk care the missing link, the found link, they look similar. They’ve got that elk hair wing or deer hair wing. 00:52:42 Allison: Well, that’s about it though. So you know the the so an elk hair caddis doesn’t have a tail. It’s got a dubbed body with hackle. Sort of like the stimulator body, right? And then it’s got an LQR wing on it and with a with a nice little head, you know. Kelly Gallop cuts it, cuts it first and puts it down. The traditional way was to tie in your hair and then trim it. Right. But, uh, I like Kelly’s method. 00:53:09 Dave: Do you do it Kelly’s way? 00:53:10 Allison: Yeah, I think that’s it makes total sense to me. And it makes a nice little perfect head. And, uh. Yeah, I mean, it’s and it’s just so much easier, and it’s a a lot less mess, right? 00:53:23 Dave: It is. How do you get the right amount of. You talk about proportions. You know, the, the elk hair on that wing. How do you know how much to put on depending on. Because I think you could overdress that pretty easily. Right. 00:53:33 Allison: Certainly you can. So, you know, you measure I put my my clump after I’ve stacked my hair, I put it in my right hand and I measure it. I want it to be I want the tips to just come to right at the bend of the hook. And then I, I go ahead and cut them Like Kelly did. Cut my butt ends off, and then I just place it and and I do another little trick on hair wings. So instead of just putting my clump of hair on the hook and then doing a pinch wrap or doing any kind of wrap, what I do is I wrap my thread around my clump up in the air above my hook. So I’ve already bundled it above the hook, and then I pull that down. And then when I tie it onto my hook, it doesn’t. 00:54:21 Dave: Yeah, it doesn’t. 00:54:22 Allison: Wrap around to the other side. Well, no, it doesn’t wrap. It doesn’t roll to the other side. 00:54:26 Dave: Yeah. 00:54:27 Allison: So I’ve collected it or captured it in a clump before it even goes down onto the hook. 00:54:34 Dave: Oh, wow. Okay. 00:54:35 Allison: And, um, I think I don’t I’m not the only one that does that. I mean, I saw I obviously saw somebody do. 00:54:41 Dave: Yeah. So in the air, you wrap a few wraps of thread around it so it can secure it a little bit, and then. 00:54:46 Allison: At least one and then it, so it comes down onto the top of your hook shank, already gathered together. 00:54:53 Dave: Yeah. 00:54:54 Allison: And so then when you do your next wrap, it doesn’t have that tendency to roll. You know, your hair roll around to the other side of the hook. Right. Which the pinch wrap also is designed to do that as well. But I just find it easier to go ahead and do a couple of collecting wraps, you know, up in the air and then pull that down straight onto my hook and then do my next wrap. And it just my hair stays put right on top of my hook. 00:55:22 Dave: It does. What’s your what’s your glue of choice. Do you, do you use a lot of glue or any of that stuff or you’ve. 00:55:28 Allison: You know, I do. I use a lot of Zappa Gap. I use a lot of crazy glue from Michaels Hobby Shop. I mean, I like a brush. Um, I also, uh, finish my parachutes with glue. Um, and I learned that from Cheech. 00:55:44 Dave: Oh, really? Where is that you hit on the post, or where do you use the glue? 00:55:47 Allison: Um, I just put a little bit on my thread. 00:55:50 Dave: Oh, yeah. 00:55:51 Allison: So I tie my, uh, when I, when I’ve done my hackle wraps down to my body. Then I pull the end of the hackle down and take my thread and go right around the base of that post and tie my hackle off, cut the waste away. And then I put just a little bit of glue. Right. You know, the first, maybe half inch of my thread. And then I just do three or four more wraps, cut it and it’s done. And I’ve never had one fall apart. And I’ll, I’ll give that one hundred percent to Cheech, who was the first person I ever saw do that. There you go. And and I’d seen people like Charlie Craven and people that would put a drop of glue on the thread and let it travel down into the post and kind of saturate the whole thing. And that, that works. Well, you know, I mean, you know, you can get a little glue on your, your hackles and, you know, and kind of glue them together. And I just find it easier to do it by putting just, you know, brushing a little bit of glue and I mean a little bit onto my thread and then doing a few wraps and it just seals it. 00:56:56 Dave: Perfect. Wow. Those are awesome. Before we get out of here, I want to hear I know how we’ve talked to you on the podcast here. I know he was at the Albany show. I think he moved to Idaho. Right. And he’s doing I think that’s part of the more of the success. I think Idaho has always been great, and I think this might be the thirty year anniversary, but do you connect with how over there, has he been part of the success on that show? 00:57:17 Allison: No. Hal and I are big buddies. 00:57:20 Dave: Oh you are. Oh, cool. 00:57:21 Allison: Yeah, we were big buddies at Albany. And, um. Yeah, I always call Hal up and give him a hard time about, you know, where he’s sitting. Me and. 00:57:29 Dave: Right. 00:57:29 Allison: And you know that nothing. You know, guys that put together all these fly tyers, they don’t let they love nothing more than to have guys call them up and ask them to rearrange the schedule for them. 00:57:40 Dave: Right. 00:57:41 Allison: So I like to be I like to be that guy. And um, um, also um, but yeah, he’s moved down to Idaho and he’s doing he’s putting together the tires. You know, he came in there at a really good time. Bruce Staples had done it forever. And Bruce is kind of, you know, he’s he’s on his way. Uh, you know, he’s he’s on his way to retirement. And Hal stepped in and it was, uh, you know, and now that show forever, that show was at a ballroom at the Shiloh Hotel. And, you know, it had like one hundred and twenty tires and about ten vendors around the edge. And it was just, I mean, we were crammed in there like sardines and it was just buzzing with energy. Um, and I always wondered, like, how do they make money here with ten vendors? Right. But, uh, they had tons of raffles going. I used to win a rod at that show every year. Um, which was kind of cool. I had, like a seven year streak where I won a rod. 00:58:38 Dave: No kidding. 00:58:38 Allison: But, uh, but now that they’re in the expo, the mountain home air Mountain America Expo center in Idaho Falls, and they put us out there on the hockey rink. They put a bunch of plywood down over the ice and and so now they’ve got a bunch of vendors and it’s turned into a very big show. It’s still a, you know, one hundred and I don’t know, one hundred and twenty five tires or whatever. But now there’s a lot of room, a lot of vendors now, which is great. And everybody complains about their feet getting cold. But, you know, we’re still we’re sitting on ice. So, you know. 00:59:13 Dave: There you go. There you go. That’s pretty awesome. Nice. Well we’re excited to follow. Hopefully I’ll see you there. And I might also see you in Albany I think, um, you know, this is going to be a fun show. Give me before we head out here. Just on the woodworking. Give us for those that don’t know, what are you what’s your focus on woodworking? What are you doing? 00:59:28 Speaker 5: Well, so. 00:59:29 Allison: I’m you know, I grew up in West Texas. I’ve always been I’ve always loved woodworking, like, fine woodworking, but I’ve never really done it at a big level. Uh, when I moved to Montana six years ago, I had this shop, and it was going to be, you know, I have some classic cars that was going to park cars in there. And I thought, you know what, let me give this furniture. You know, I’m, I’m retired. I, I don’t do this for to make a living. It’s I just gotta, you know, old retired guys gotta have something to get them out of bed in the morning. So I filled this shop with commercial tools and dust collection. And I’ve got a flat screen and surround sound and a wood stove and, um, and, um, I started, uh, you know, I don’t advertise at all. And my first job, there was a guy building a real custom barnwood house, and it was during Covid six years ago. Um, he was waiting six months on his front door. And so he asked me, hey, can you build me a front door? And, uh, so his contractor came over because he’d never heard of me. And two weeks later, he had a front door. And the contractors, like, where have you been all my life? And, uh, so he throws a ton of work at me. So I build, I build, you know, uh, dining tables, coffee tables, beds, exterior doors, interior doors, sink cabinets, custom built ins, you know, all kinds of stuff. And I. 01:00:53 Dave: Work. 01:00:53 Allison: seven days a week. Um, I come out here in the shop and put on some music, light a cigar and start, uh, start making sawdust, you know, and, um, and, uh, then just word of mouth and and I’m as busy as I could be. 01:01:10 Dave: That’s so. 01:01:10 Allison: Cool. And, uh, so it’s kind of, you know, I’ve kind of changed directions in life a little bit, um, and, uh. Yeah, but it’s, uh, you know, retirement is about chasing your passions. And, uh, you know, when I worked, I worked in South Florida, you know, in veterinary surgery and neurology for thirty years in a big, uh, referral hospital and with one hundred and sixty people. And I was on call all the time, and, you know, residents and interns and just working my butt off. And I used to think, you know, if when I get all the time and all the money I need, what would I do? And I retired and moved to Park City, and I think I fished one hundred and sixty days the first year and skied ninety. And then before you knew it, I was president of the two chapter. Before you knew it, I was dying. 01:02:01 Dave: For two. 01:02:02 Allison: Shows. Before you knew it, I had twenty eight fly rods. And I’m going to Alaska. And, you know, it’s just like it was just it just took off, you know? Um, and, uh, so now it’s the woodworking, but I still, you know, my thing now is I, I found this place in Canada. Uh, I met this guy at the Denver show, and I drive to Edmonton, and they pick us up on a little twin engine and fly us all the way up to the top of Saskatchewan and then take us into this little lodge on a on a, uh, Otter. 01:02:33 Dave: Oh, wow. 01:02:33 Allison: And it’s nothing fancy, you know, five cabins. It’s on a lake with the river coming in and out and really, you know, great Canadian kid guides, you know, just a hard working. And the food’s decent, the cabins are decent and the pike are off the chain. 01:02:52 Dave: Lots of pike, lots of big pike. 01:02:53 Allison: Like you’ve got a legitimate shot at a fifty incher. 01:02:57 Dave: Oh wow. 01:02:58 Allison: We use titanium liters and tin weights and forty pound fluorocarbon. 01:03:03 Dave: What’s your fly? What’s your pike fly? Are you tying your flies for it? 01:03:06 Allison: Well, I do tie a bunch of pike flies, but there’s an old guide up there. Not old, but, you know, a very experienced, uh, senior guide. And he’s got a fly that no matter what, I tie his fly. 01:03:20 Dave: Still, it works better. 01:03:22 Allison: Yeah, yeah. And, uh, you know, and, uh, so, um. 01:03:27 Dave: That’s great. That’s great. 01:03:28 Allison: Tim Flagler was tying him at, uh, at Bellevue. 01:03:31 Dave: Tim was. That’s so cool. 01:03:32 Allison: Tim and Mark Melnick went up there and did a a new Fly Fisher episode on this place. I hate to say the place because I don’t want it to get overrun, you know what I’m saying? 01:03:40 Dave: Right. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’ll mention one. We’re we’re heading up to, uh, Scott Lake for the first time, which is probably near in the same area. Maybe, but. 01:03:48 Speaker 5: It’s. 01:03:49 Allison: It’s very close. 01:03:50 Dave: Yeah. Very close. 01:03:51 Allison: Yeah. And, uh. Yeah, I mean, I, I love it. I grew up there twice a year. Every year. Wow. And I take people with me and, uh, uh, gotten into the, uh, double handed, uh, overhead. 01:04:02 Dave: Oh. You do? Yeah. You got the double hand. Yeah. 01:04:05 Allison: Yeah, but they’re not spey rods. They’re double headed over there. Muskie rods. 01:04:08 Dave: Muskie rods. Yeah. 01:04:09 Allison: And, uh, you can chunk a pike, fly ninety feet with those things, like, effortlessly. 01:04:14 Dave: Yeah. 01:04:15 Allison: And, uh, if you, you know, if you double haul a ten weight all day, you know, it’s not effortless. 01:04:20 Dave: No, no it’s not. No. That’s cool. Well, I think we’ve got lots to follow up with you on. I think, uh, the next step is to connect with you at the show. So whoever can we mentioned Albany is coming up. We got the East Idaho Expo, and you mentioned. 01:04:34 Allison: Salt. 01:04:34 Dave: Lake and Salt Lake also. So we got those coming up still. And then the cool thing is, is that next year there will be another round of shows and hopefully you’ll be back there. We’ll we’ll see how that’s all. Are you as you look ahead, are you planning on sticking with the shows? I know you’re you’re. 01:04:48 Allison: Yeah I am. I, I think it’s a part of my life I don’t want to lose. Um, so, you know, I start in Boise, Denver, Bellevue, Albany, and that’s that’s kind of my thing. Um, I got invited to the, um, symposium in Somerset, new Jersey in November, and I was all set to go. I talked to Chuck a couple times on the phone, and, and then, uh, we had the government shutdown and the, the, uh, air traffic controllers were off work, and I get an email from Delta the day before my flight was canceled, and I tried to scramble to rebook, and I couldn’t get there before, you know, Saturday afternoon. So if he invites me to come back out there this coming November, I’ll definitely will be there. 01:05:35 Dave: Yeah, you’ll be there. 01:05:36 Allison: Yeah. I have a lot of friends out in that part of the country that, um, I’d like to meet and and not meet, but, uh, you know, hook up with and, um. So. And that’s just a flat tire show. There’s, you know, it’s not a fly fishing show. It’s a fly tying show. 01:05:51 Dave: Yes. Fly tying. 01:05:52 Allison: Show. Yeah, it’s an international fly tying symposium. So. 01:05:55 Dave: That’s right, that’s right. Yeah, we’ve heard about that one too. Good. Yep, yep. All right. Dave. Well, I think we can leave it there. We’ll send everybody out to, uh, at West Texas Bugs. They can follow you on Instagram and keep up with you. And also, like we said, we’ll meet up with you at the shows. And. Yeah, thanks for all your time today. This has been a really great to connect finally, and we’ll look forward to keeping in touch with you. 01:06:13 Allison: Yeah appreciate it. 01:06:15 Dave: All right. Hope you enjoyed that episode of the Travel podcast. If you want to connect with Dave please do that. That’s West Texas bugs. And even better, uh, after you do that, head over to the East Idaho Fly Tying Expo and you can see him tie in person. You can pick his brains in person, and if you get a chance, this is one of the best fly tying expos in the country, and I would love to connect with you there. Uh, we’re likely going to be there and hanging out with Dave and everybody else, so check in there. Uh, I want to let you know that, uh, there’s a couple of ways you can connect with me, Dave at com or the boot camp just launched as we’re speaking. If you go to Fly Fishing bootcamp dot com, you can check in and get all the replays. Watch upcoming presentations. This is a multi-day speaker session where we got some of the best coming on to talk about all aspects of fly fishing, the fly fishing boot camp. You can go right now. Fly fishing bootcamp dot com. All right we’re going to get out of here. Hope you have a great day. And I want to say thank you for tuning in and hope you can explore a few more waters and experience that road less traveled.