869 | Beyond the Giveaway: Missouri River Dry Fly Fishing with Eric Johnson

00:00:00 Dave: Blooming dolls were popping. Trout were rising everywhere, and Eric Johnson suddenly found himself in the middle of a Missouri River dry fly day. Most anglers only dream about. Not bad for a guy who originally thought you won a trip. Message was a scam. If you’ve ever wondered what actually happens when someone wins one of our big giveaway trips the gear, the lodge, the guides, the fishing. Today’s episode gives you the full picture straight from the angler who lived it. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast, where we show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to fish species we all love. Eric Johnson walked into a prize pack stacked with brands like Lamps and Yokota Fulling Mill, Pescador on the fly, trippin and many more, and then stepped into three days of bluing, olive hatches, pods of rising fish, the reach class, master class, and trout so fat that a sixteen inch fish was considered small. By the end of this episode, you’re going to hear what the hatch looked like from the boat, how the guides read the water, the setup that fooled the bigger fish. What surprised Eric most about the gear he won and why the Missouri River feels like a Spring Creek on steroids. We’re also going to find out what it’s like to stay at a lodge built on Gary Cooper’s old property, complete with a fly tying barn, big dinners, and the unmistakable you’re part of the family vibe. Okay, let’s jump into it. You could find Eric on Instagram at Eric Johnson, and you can find on Daymark Lodge at on Daymark Lodge. Com. How are you doing, Eric? 00:01:35 Eric: Not bad. How about yourself, Dave? 00:01:37 Dave: I’m doing really well. Yeah. This is this is going to be a fun one and kind of a new episode that we haven’t done before, where you’re actually the winner of the on Demark the Dry Fly giveaway event we did where you won a bunch of gear, a trip to the Missouri River to fish with Craig and the crew. We’re going to talk about, you know, everything there. And since this is the first time we’ve kind of done one of these podcasts where we’ve chatted with one of the winners. I’m really excited just to hear how how everything’s going, how maybe talk about gear a little bit and just and about the trip. Does that does that sound good to you? 00:02:07 Eric: Oh that’s fantastic. I’m very excited to talk about all of it. 00:02:11 Dave: Nice. Good. Well, like we said, I can’t remember the exact prize pack, but it was thousands of dollars worth of gear and, you know, and the trip and everything. Um, but let’s just start off first off on the winning. Like, do you remember, like, what was that like when you first. I can’t remember if I called you or when you first heard. Do you remember that moment? Have you won some stuff in the past? 00:02:33 Eric: No, I never win anything. Um, I happily enter, but I have very low expectations. And to be perfectly honest, I think I got a text from you and I thought that it was either a fake or a mistake, you know? Yeah. Uh, we’re living in the, uh, in the era of identity theft and cyber crimes, and that’s all I’m thinking is, uh, great. Somebody’s got my identity because I know I didn’t win this. 00:03:00 Dave: Oh, right. Wow. That’s crazy. I’m the same way. It just seems like all this stuff is the spamming and all the crazy stuff is out there, and you gotta. You got to be careful, you know? That’s the bottom line. You definitely do. You got to pretty much, you know, not be careful when you click stuff and you know and all that. So I think that’s why the text, the phone call, I think I followed up with you, but eventually we talked. Right. Maybe talk about what you won there a little bit because we do these events, you know, almost every month or two. Now, what was it that you won there? 00:03:28 Eric: Uh, you know, it was such a a windfall of prizes. It’s hard to remember all of it, but probably the big one was the, uh, trip to fish the Missouri and stay at Andy Mark Lodge, which was absolutely spectacular. I won a a beautiful gear case from intrepid. Very, very impressed with it. Like so well built. And to be perfectly honest, it took me a while to put it on my truck because it was kind of almost too pretty. Uh, I didn’t want anything to happen to it because it was really an impressive piece of equipment. I won a, uh, from Pescador on the fly. The, um, El Rey, uh, g6 fly. So it was a, uh, eight foot, six inch, four weight, which out of all of it, that that might have been the the biggest surprise of the package. Um, I was a little skeptical at first when I did get that rod. Actually, the first time I took it out, it was supposed to be on a trout trip up to northern Wisconsin. Um, unfortunately, because of the warmer weather, trout really weren’t cooperating. But we get into some smallmouth bass and I ended up catching an eighteen inch smallmouth bass on that. 00:04:46 Dave: Wow. 00:04:47 Eric: Which, uh, like, it’s a beautiful rod. The fit and finish is fantastic, but I was really impressed that not only does it cast well? But, you know, it did have good backbone. I still landed a fish that I probably shouldn’t have landed on a four weight, but, uh. 00:05:05 Dave: Right. 00:05:06 Eric: It was really nice. You know, I, I did get a a rod and reel from Lamson. And, you know, Lamson is always solid. I’ve, uh, I have several Lamson reels. This is the first Lamson rod, uh, that I’ve gotten and really impressed with the quality of it. And the reels, you know, again, Lamson is kind of a standby. They’re always a dependable reel. And I’m always happy to, uh, add another Lamson to the quiver. I did get, uh, a lot of, uh, tying materials from fulling mill again. Fulling mill. I was, uh, very familiar with. And and I’ve already tied, uh, some, some good flies with the materials that were sent along. Um, let me think here. Uh, the the waiter transport and chest pack again. I was familiar with Yokota before I got the, you know, the the latest package. And I’ll say one thing, you know, it’s incredibly durable. And really, what kind of gets me is like the durability component combined with how lightweight the the materials are that go into its production and really good, good material, good, good structure. And you know, it’s, you know, whether it’s the chest pack and wearing it all day, it’s lightweight and comfortable or the waiter transport which uh, again. Yeah. Well it’s great because the, the size of it, not only, you know, your, your waiters and your boots. 00:06:34 Dave: Yep. Everything. 00:06:35 Eric: But you can throw everything in there. 00:06:36 Dave: Yeah. You do it. That’s what it becomes. It becomes that everything bag. And it’s durable. I mean I’ve had mine for years now and and it’s just. Yeah it just it’s there. It’s like it’s the bag that it’s the everything bag. Right. 00:06:48 Eric: Oh it is, it’s it’s just like you can, like just a couple of weeks ago, I went up to Michigan and did some, uh, Steelhead fishing and basically everything. But my my clothes went into that bag and it it handled everything, you know, perfectly nice. 00:07:04 Dave: That’s amazing. Well this is cool. So this is a good start I think um, again, that’s always our goal is to get awesome brands on board and put together awesome trips. Right. That’s kind of our focus. Well, let’s talk a little bit about and I do want to get back into your background and hear some about where you’re at, because, you know, we’ve been in Wisconsin and we’re hoping to get back out to that, you know, your neck of the woods here. But talk about the trip. So you won this trip to the Missouri, uh, with on to Mark. And, um, what was it like? Uh, maybe talk about the whole process. Did you, uh, did you fly there? Did you arrive? Where did you arrive? How’d that first how’d that start out? 00:07:38 Eric: Yeah. Uh, well, I, you know, and I’ve. I’ve, uh, fished the Missouri several times before, usually more in the spring time. But I flew into Helena. I actually got in a day early, did a little bit of fishing on my own, drove to the lodge, Um, the directions to the lodge were were great, even though at first you look at it and you’re like, I’m okay, I’m driving over a mountain to get there and, uh, you know, and it’s but honestly, there was a lot of thought that went into the, the directions and they were spot on, like even down to what not to do, you know, because I think that, uh, they know that like, sometimes when you get off here, you think this is where you’re going to go and it doesn’t make sense. So there was good warning there on on the directions. You don’t want to go in, but, uh, I arrived at the lodge, uh, arrived pretty close to, you know, I think that I could check in at four. I think I was there about four thirty. Becky was waiting there for us. She had appetizers out the, uh, the fridge had cold beer in it. Bar was well stocked, the house was warm, and and everybody came out to to welcome us, you know, as as all the people that were staying there for those three days. They came out, they greeted everybody, you know, made sure that everybody felt very welcomed. Uh, we got in the house, got all checked in. Uh, actually, one of the cool things there, which I wish one day, uh, that I could replicate, uh, they had the what they called the fly shop, but it was kind of a, a larger shed that was heated. It had a TV in there. They had benches for tying flies, as well as a nice warm place to hang your waders and put your wading boots. So and we’ll probably get into there like, uh, when I arrived on Sunday, it was under a winter storm watch. So a little bit early. It was, uh, the first day was pretty nasty on the Missouri. Um, so it was really nice to have your waders in somewhere warm and to be able to put them on somewhere warm instead of, you know, sitting out on a deck and trying to, uh, you know, with the wind whipping around you. It was actually snowing sideways when we, uh. 00:09:57 Dave: No kidding. 00:09:57 Eric: Getting ready to go out. Yeah. 00:09:59 Dave: That’s cool. Yeah. Because you guys were there in, um. I think it was, uh, mid-October. Right? Somewhere in that range. 00:10:05 Eric: Correct? 00:10:06 Dave: Yeah, mid-October, which is a cool time for, you know, the area, because you get, you know, you’re getting, like you said, you know, towards fall, it’s fall and close to closer to winter. And but there’s probably fewer people right out there. And also, you know, the thing with the X factor is the dry fly school because we wanted to, you know, do some dry fly fishing and have some action. And, you know, that time of year things are obviously changing. What was it like? Um, did you guys get some surface activity there? 00:10:34 Eric: Oh. 00:10:36 Dave: Yeah. 00:10:37 Eric: That’s probably the only way I could describe it. We got a lot of surface activity. Um, starting with day one, like blue wings were coming off. 00:10:47 Dave: Oh, right. Because the weather. Right. Because blue wings love a little bit of cool weather. That’s not a bad thing. 00:10:52 Eric: Yeah, yeah, it was, uh, we, you know, while we were there, we did have some. We had some midges, but the blue wings were were coming off really well. Honestly, like, at one point again, you know, I, I’ve fished the, the Missouri several times and you know, and you do all the research on the Missouri and how many fish are in that river. I mean, it’s just such a prolific fishery, but until you have just a massive hatch, you have no idea how many fish are in that river. I mean. 00:11:27 Dave: Really, so fish rising. I mean, just like it’s on, you know, at whatever time. Eleven, ten, eleven and fish are rising everywhere. 00:11:35 Eric: Yeah, yeah. And it was it was amazing. You know, and like, we put in writing, Craig, you know, where you’re right in town. Like one of the, you know, fly fishing capitals of this country And like right in town, you didn’t have to go anywhere. And fish are rising everywhere. I mean, it was just, I mean, amazing. So, yeah, you know, even that that first day, the other conditions weren’t so great. I mean, it was really cold. Um, it was windy. It was snowy. Like squalls were kind of moving through, but the fish were unaffected. They were they were happily feeding and and, you know, doing happy fishy things. 00:12:23 Dave: Yeah. Happy fishy day. That’s amazing. Well, this this is a good start. I think that yeah, that was part of the thing. And I’ve been there in, you know, that period and fished and had, you know whether that’s been almost feels like summertime right. I mean, it’s hard. You never know what you get. But I think what we’re doing this this year is we’re going to try to get there more in the summer, and partly because, you know, we’re going to mix it up a little bit. Also, we’re trying to work it around one of the the conservation groups, they’re are doing a nonprofit kind of a cleanup event. 00:12:52 Eric: Oh, fantastic. 00:12:53 Dave: Yeah. So we’re trying to tie it into that. So I think we’re we might be in in August, although I think August, you obviously will have some some warmer weather, but so we’re still working on that. But we’ll probably be a little bit earlier this year. But. So you were there in, you know, the October the weather wasn’t perfect but the action was it dry fly. Did you have opportunities pretty much all days because you were there. You fished three days, right. Full days. 00:13:15 Eric: Yeah. Fish three full days. I probably like ninety nine point nine percent of it was dry fly. I mean, a couple of times when we’re moving from place to place, we’d strip some streamers while we’re kind of floating through. But for the most part it was all dry flies. And every day we had a lot of action on top. You know, it was uh, there was there was really no shortage of rising fish. 00:13:43 Dave: Yeah. So how does that look when you’re out there? And you guys are you guys I think are in drift boats. Right. Floating down. Do you. Are you floating down? And you know how. Is that when there’s fish rising everywhere? How are you getting fish? You just cast it out there and there’s plenty of fish there. They’re on it. Or describe that a little bit. 00:13:59 Eric: Usually what we do is we we set up just upstream of the rising fish. So again we’ll, we’ll look for a good pod of fish. And again you know, talking about like what good guides uh, both Craig and Warren are. They know. They know that river like the back of their hand. And they’re like, okay, those are those are smaller fish over there. We’re going to go after the bigger ones, and they know exactly where to set up. We’re setting up, uh, upstream of the fish, making a cast and, uh, you know, and it was amazing. I mean, you’re you’re hooking into these what ends up being really, really big trout and really, really small flies. 00:14:43 Dave: Oh, right. Yeah. Because I saw some of the photos. These are not small trout. Right. 00:14:47 Eric: No, no. I mean, this is this is really the opportunity for, you know, a twenty twenty on a dry and like there were, you know, a small fish when you caught a small fish, it was a fifteen sixteen inch fish is a small fish. 00:15:02 Dave: No kidding. Fifteen sixteen is small. 00:15:04 Eric: Yeah. So yeah, we’re like the expectation is getting into the teens and twenties and and it happened. Yeah it now I I’ll say on the other end uh when you’re, you’re catching fish like that on tiny hooks, you do straighten out quite a few hooks which, which is part of the challenge too. And, you know, um, and I’ll, I’ll be, I’ll, I’ll own up to my own faults. Like, it was funny because for the longest time, you know, like, when I first started off, like fishing, spent more time fishing, dries. My last few trips, like, especially to the Missouri. And we’re they’re usually in April and we’re stripping streamers for for big browns. And we do most of that. And same thing I do a lot of fishing for smallmouth. I’ve been getting more into saltwater fishing. So I’ve, I’ve gotten, you know, like you learn with all of that don’t trout set. 00:16:04 Dave: Well no don’t trout set. 00:16:07 Eric: It’s trying to reteach yourself to trout said. When you’re used to not trout setting. So that that was one of my biggest challenges at first. 00:16:17 Dave: So you’re missing fish. So you’re missing some fish out there. 00:16:19 Eric: Exactly. 00:16:20 Dave: So the fish come up, you see a fish rise and you’re just because you’re not on it quick enough setting doing the trout set. You just missed the fish. 00:16:28 Eric: Exactly. Well, almost setting too quickly, you know, or setting too hard where you immediately either rip the fly out of the fish’s mouth or you’re straightening the hook. And you know what was great is again, talking about Craig and Warren. They coached me through that and it was like, and then end up having success. Once you like, you rework it in your mind that, okay, I don’t have to bury this hook. This fish is, you know, when it takes it, it’s just like a little bit of pressure to help it set into the fish’s mouth. 00:17:05 Dave: Yeah. So what was that that they taught you there? That you. So you were kind of missing some fish. What did they tell you, and what did you do to actually get a solid hook up and land the fish? 00:17:14 Eric: Well, and I think they kind of identified it really quickly and they’re like, okay, you know, you’re you’re setting too quickly on those fish. You need to let them eat it a little bit more. You need to let it, you know, and especially because we are fishing upstream and I know, you know, like I kind of what clicked to because I do swing flies for or steelhead, I swing them for trout. And just the idea, you know, keep in mind instead of, you know, most of my dry fly fishing in the past has been fishing upstream instead of fishing downstream to the fish and understanding like when you set, you’re pulling that away from the fish. You know, a lot of times because of the pressure when they feel that they’re going to almost set the fly themselves, all it needs is a little bit of pressure. You’re not really having to set the hook. 00:18:05 Dave: So that’s part of what it looks like when you’ve got a massive blue wing doll of hatch and and eventually, yeah, you did land some of those fish, right. And were these mostly browns or a mix of browns and rainbows? 00:18:16 Eric: It was mostly rainbows. We did get some browns, but it was overwhelmingly rainbows. And and again, really big fat, beautiful rainbows with huge shoulders on them. Like even talking about like, uh, the small fish, like the fifteen, sixteen inchers, they still put up an incredible fight. I mean, it was once once you hooked them, it was a battle. 00:18:42 Dave: It was. How big is the Missouri for somebody that hasn’t been there? Because it’s a decent sized river? Is it a just a massive river? You’ve been there before, but how does it compare to, say, other areas? 00:18:51 Speaker 3: It’s a good sized river. 00:18:53 Eric: You know the Missouri though. What’s interesting about it is, you know, it is a tailwater. Um, it’s it’s a broad river. You know, I’m trying to think just like in my head, you know, maybe, maybe seventy five yards across. And, uh, but it’s a good mild flow and it’s it’s huge, but it’s almost like a spring creek fishing. It is, is more like or or like a typical tailwater, you know, mild flows. Water is clear, castings pretty open. Um, but it it is, it’s a, you know, it is a beautiful river and, you know, there’s not like when it comes down to, uh, floating it for the most part, there’s nothing too technical about it. You know it’s not right. 00:19:45 Dave: There’s no big rapids. 00:19:47 Eric: No, there’s no big rapids. You know, like, I’ve, uh. When I’ve gone there with friends, we we floated and and I’ve spent a lot of time behind the oars, and, and I’m not as experienced as some of my other friends, but felt very comfortable floating it. 00:20:01 Dave: So. Yeah. And you’ve been there. You guys have in past been there in the spring. Is that something kind of, uh, it sounds like you’ve been there a couple, couple times before. 00:20:08 Eric: Yeah, yeah, we, um, we have a big group of friends. We used to go up, like, every April to, um, uh, Southeast Alaska to fish for steelhead, but, uh, where we used to go, uh, like, we started seeing too many people up there. So we decided to kind of give it a break. Uh, and we moved it to the Missouri instead. And, and again, it’s the the fishing is just it is such an incredible river. 00:20:38 Dave: How does that compare to the Missouri? Because it’s interesting. Because Alaska, you know, is this amazing place to. And you hear, you know, definitely more pressure. I mean, I was out on my home water this week and went to a place that, you know, again, the whole nother story, but, you know, not like when I was younger. 00:20:54 Eric: Yeah. 00:20:55 Dave: You know, you go out there now, there’s a giant camper the size of a house that’s got the generator going on, you know, all day, all night long. And before it was just, you know, it was a small, you know, a few people out there with, you know, and so things change and it’s tough because those places you love change and they’re not. And sometimes you have to move right and not go back. And so do you guys chose to go back to or to go to the Missouri, which I think some people talk, you know, like there’s some traffic over there too. What’s your feeling on that? Do you guys feel like the Missouri has been busy or what was your experience like? 00:21:25 Eric: You know, I’ve been there in the summer. There’s definitely more traffic in the summer. Uh, however, like in the spring and in the fall, it’s great. I mean, it’s like there’s not a lot of people there, you know, of course, part of it. You’re not there. And the angler friendly mask. 00:21:46 Dave: Yeah, right. The peak. 00:21:48 Eric: Or the peak. 00:21:49 Dave: Or the peak? Yeah. You’re not getting the, you know, whatever the the hatch is like the, the giant stonefly hatch or whatever, you know, and you’re not getting the perfect weather, you know, or whatever it is, right? 00:22:01 Eric: Yeah. It’s usually cold. You know, you’re you’re definitely bundled up a little bit more. It’s all, you know, when we were there in the springtime, it like I said, we were mainly stripping streamers. We’d stop every once in a while if we got lucky. See some, uh, blue wings coming off, cast to them for a little bit, do some nymphing. Actually, I have the past few years I’ve been swinging, uh, wet flies for, uh, for trout there. And now we’ll get out of the boat in this section. And, and my, my buddy who’s Nymphing is stacking them up like cordwood, and I’m getting maybe one fish to every three of his, but I’m very happy with it. 00:22:42 Dave: But you’re doing it your way. 00:22:44 Eric: Well, exactly. I’ve hit that. Well, I won’t say that I’ve caught enough fish because I’ll never catch enough fish. But, you know, I like catching them my way now. And there’s something about that. And I like especially, you know, instead of watching a bobber go down or stop, you know, you get that grab and that’s just cool, you know. And that’s that’s what I love about it. 00:23:06 Dave: Yeah, it’s the grab that’s so cool that you’re doing. You’re swinging and are you swinging like single hand rod mostly. 00:23:12 Eric: No, I do have a I do have a trout spey now. 00:23:14 Dave: Oh, nice. 00:23:16 Eric: Um, I have done in smaller rivers, I’ve done, you know, just like a single hand swing, but, uh, well, funny enough, I, I ended up getting a trout spey because I like, uh, just traditional spey fishing so much, uh, that I thought. 00:23:32 Speaker 3: You know what? This is probably. 00:23:33 Eric: Going to work. I like this, so. And that’s I just kind of played around and and figured out a way to do it on some of the bigger waters. And yeah, it pays off. 00:23:42 Dave: Yeah, it is good. Good. Well, we’ve talked a little bit about that, and we’ll probably have some more, uh, content coming out with, with Trout Spey for sure. Tell me on we haven’t talked about this yet, but on the podcast. Are you familiar? Had you been listening to the show before or how did you come into the kind of the wet fly swing, you know, uh, kind of network originally? Do you remember that? 00:24:02 Eric: You know, funny enough, uh, originally, uh, a few years ago, um, I had about an hour and a half commute to work every day. Uh, there. An hour and a half there, hour and a half back. So finding podcasts. And yours was one of them. I, I really started listening to regularly. Um, you had some good stuff, obviously. You know, like I mentioned, I like the, the title, you know, enticed like swing and flies is, is something I like to do. But then you start, you know, listening to it. And Dave, honestly, I think like one of my favorites. And you had Henry Winkler on and. 00:24:39 Dave: Oh yeah, the Fonz, right? 00:24:41 Eric: Man, that was so cool. You know, I I’m fifty three years old, so I grew up with Fonzie. And and when you hear your hero talking about it, you know, he was probably the first person outside of my my own family that you really looked up to. And he was doing the same thing that you’re doing. It just adds so much to it. And, you know, but just recently, you know, I went out, uh, fishing Thanksgiving morning and I was, uh, listening to, you know, again, something that interests me and that’s, uh, that’s kind of on my bucket list to get out there. 00:25:17 Dave: There you go. Obviously, that’s kind of one of my home rivers. And, uh. Yeah. No, I’m glad you caught that one. We’re going to do some more. I’ve got another guest, uh, who is been a big person out in the shoes for a while. We’re hopefully we’ll get that one on here in the next couple of months as well. But you’re talking about your hometown. You’re kind of on the other side of the country. Are you in Wisconsin now? 00:25:38 Eric: No, no, I’m, I actually, I live in Chicago, so. 00:25:42 Dave: Oh that’s right. Chicago, right. 00:25:44 Eric: So unfortunately, Chicago isn’t really the a destination location for flights. 00:25:51 Dave: Right? You’re not catching brown trout right out your back door in the Windy City, right? 00:25:55 Eric: No, no. Like. And you get out like I’ll get out local, like to some local ponds and fish for bass. Or I can get down to the Kankakee River or the lakefront and try to find some smallmouth. Uh, but usually, like, if I’m locally fishing, that means it’s a trip either to Wisconsin or over to Michigan. 00:26:17 Dave: Yeah, Wisconsin or Michigan. Right. So you’re either you’re either going for is it usually trout up there or what are the species you’re when you head up north, are you going for? 00:26:25 Eric: I’ll do anything with a fly. You know, I’ve done, um, a lot of, uh, muskie fishing up there with a fly, which is. Which is fun. Uh, actually, this upcoming year. You know, there’s the Muskie Tournament at Treelines Resort every year. So this year, this upcoming year, me and a group have put together a team that we’re going to try to fish that, you know, I think, you know, with Muskie, it’s always more about you’ll be lucky if you catch one, but it’s really cool when you do. And it’s it’s again, getting back to the idea of catching it the way that you want to catch it. And, uh, you know, obviously if I wanted to catch a muskie, I’ll hang a sucker off of a boat, but really get on a fly. And I’ve caught a few on a fly and it’s an absolute riot you have. 00:27:14 Dave: You’ve caught some muskie. You’ve got into some muskie on the fly. 00:27:17 Eric: Yeah, my my biggest. I got out of a northern Wisconsin lake. It was a forty seven and a half inch. Um, and it was just absolutely unbelievable. It was like just really, really cool. Now, most of the ones I’ve caught are more in like the mid thirty inch range. Um, but I I’ve, I’ve broken forty twice. 00:27:42 Dave: No kidding. Yep. That’s it. Yeah. We’re we’re going to be chasing. We’re heading up north even further north up to Saskatchewan to chase Northern Pike in the spring. Yeah. So that’s going to be sounds like we’re there’s a lot of action up there. So hopefully hopefully we’ll find some some fish. It sounds like it’s pretty cool. We did a podcast that is going to be coming out here. Actually I think it’s coming out well. When this goes live it’ll already be out. And we it’s, uh, Scott Lake Lodge and man these fish, they talk about how they come up and warm themselves, sun themselves. They come out of the deeps and they hang out in the shell like one to two feet water. And some of these are big fish like you’re talking about, you know, forty inch, forty inches, and you’re almost, you know, you’re seeing them. 00:28:22 Eric: Yeah. 00:28:22 Dave: You know, and it’s like, it’s pretty cool, I guess. Muskie, you’re the same thing, right? Are you you’re out there seeing some seeing the fish a little bit. 00:28:28 Eric: Uh, you know, it depends like sometimes if we’re, uh, a lot of times we float rivers for them. You’re not really seeing the fish. You’re fishing the structure. But, like, more times than not, you, like muskie, are just curious fish that are not afraid of much. And they’ll just kind of follow up your fly. Or sometimes you’ll see them. They just kind of levitate out of the weeds. They look at you and then drop right back down. I mean, they’re just kind of unique, crazy fish, but, uh, man, they’re fun. 00:29:00 Dave: Yeah, there’s like you said, it sounds like you’re in the same. There’s all these species, and, you know, what are you chasing next? So this is this is really cool. It’s awesome to hear that. The trip. You know, you hadn’t done the Missouri this time of year. You guys had some success on the surface too. What was your maybe. Let’s take it back there real quick on your setup for the dries. What were the flies typically? Was it a twenty or what was the size that was working in that mid-October? 00:29:23 Eric: Uh, pretty much. We were, uh, between eighteen and twenty. Um, a lot of, uh, a lot of spinners, a lot of actually, I should say parachutes, uh, that we were fishing, but you know that that was pretty much it. But a couple of times we did kind of like when the hatch was so heavy and you couldn’t see your fly on the water. Uh, we would kind of scale up to like, a sixteen, but but for the most part it was eighteen and twenty. 00:29:51 Dave: Well, perfect. I want to you know, I think there’s a lot we could talk about on this trip, you know, and I think we’re going to leave some stuff on the table, but hopefully we’ll keep in touch with you. I want to get you access to our community as well. Wet Fly Swing Pro, our member, our members area. And right now I just want to give a quick shout out to to that really quick. And Bill who just was posted in there, we are actually doing a fly tying kind of, uh, month fly tying challenge month. So we’re trying to get people fired up to get back to the vice, you know, and I’m one of those people that I struggle sometimes, you know. But once I get on the vice, I’m always like, I’m fired up and I’ll just tie a dozen, you know, tie as many flies as I can. But first, I want to give a shout out to Bill because we’re definitely trying to connect with some more people. There. Are you on this? And I’m going to get a couple of tips from you too, Eric, if we can. But are you a big fly tire or not? Not so much. 00:30:39 Eric: No, I am, I am, you know, as I’ve gotten older, tying smaller flies has become a little bit more difficult. I did invest into some like well I call them my hairy carries because that’s what they look like. Harry carry glasses their readers, which has helped me. But yeah, you know what? I enjoy doing it. Uh, especially, you know, when there’s not any active fishing I could be doing sitting down and, you know, listening to a little bit of music, maybe having a glass of bourbon and kind of spending some time tying flies with the hopes that one day they’ll be used. It’s kind of a cool way to use an evening. 00:31:16 Dave: It is. I think everybody, almost a majority of people tie some flies, whether that’s tying every day or just tying, you know, like you say when you get some time. But I love the Harry carry reference because I’m a big you know, I’m a big well, I was a big Cubs fan, you know, growing up as a kid, you know, all the uh, what was the WGN? Right? That was the station out of Chicago. So. But let’s let’s keep it on. We’ll get we got a couple random ones coming for you here, but let’s leave it on the tips on the trip. So what were the biggest things? So you’re out there dry fly fishing. What do you think were maybe the two or three biggest things that Craig or Warren told you on that to have success other than the hooking, were there any other things that you learned on that trip? 00:31:54 Eric: Yeah. You know what? They were really helping me with the reach cast, making sure that, you know, I’m getting enough slack in my line to get a good drift. You know, it’s, again, one of the things that was counterintuitive to me because most of my dry fly fishing before has been you’re fishing from downstream up to upstream fish. So it’s it’s not as big a concern, but when you’re going downstream, you do have to have that slack. And using that reach cast to get the proper slack in your line that that was key. Another thing that they and this was brilliant. And hopefully I’m not, you know, revealing a secret for them, but for their parachutes, they brought an orange Sharpie and, uh, essentially what would happen when there were so many fish on the water? It’s hard to tell which one is is your fly and which one are the naturals. So a little bit of orange on the post really makes it easy to track your fly. And and that was again you think of it that’s like yeah, that makes sense. You know, it was such a such a good idea. But I’ve never seen it practiced. And as you know, it’s common sense, but I never thought of it. And I wonder how many people have never thought of it as well. 00:33:18 Dave: Right. And that’s super easy. Yeah. You just pulled out a little Sharpie and now you’ve got a fly that sticks out. So when you see all these hundreds of fish rising, you can see your fly get eaten a little easier. 00:33:27 Eric: Yeah. 00:33:28 Dave: Nice, nice. So in the reach cast. And again that’s because yeah, the lines, the flies floating down are you when you make that cast, are you dropping it. Just a are you targeting. Are you saying, hey there’s a big fish there and then you’re dropping it a couple feet above that fish? Or are you just saying that that’s a scene where we think there’s some fish. What does that look like? Talk about? Maybe if you remember one of the bigger fish you got, what was that like? 00:33:50 Eric: Yeah. You know, it was mainly like trying to find the regular feeders and dropping it right in front of the regular feeders. And that was the key, you know, and this was amazing. Like, uh, so and this is why it was truly a dry fly school, uh, before we we had a later start, uh, the Monday where it was snowing sideways, wait for everything to warm up a little bit. So, you know, we don’t have everybody suffering from hypothermia on the first day of the trip. But Warren shared some videos and honestly, the the quality of the videos that he took was amazing. And it was specifically on Big Trout on the Missouri. And one of the things that they shared is like, listen, these fish, when they’re in their lanes, there’s so much food coming down that they’re not going to go way out of their way. And then the other thing, and I thought this was interesting that they shared, was that, you know, when you have so many flies, you know, it’s not just about getting the right size or the right species of fly, but even like the right type of fly. So one of the things that they brought up were watching this video, and it’s drift over after perfect drift over this fish, and this fish didn’t want a perfectly healthy mayfly. He was keyed in on the cripples. So first drip drift with the cripple fish was all over it. I mean, and it was it was really amazing. First off, to see the quality of the video. It blew my mind. But just how how tuned in those fish were. They didn’t care about like they weren’t looking just for a number eighteen bluing olive. They wanted a cripple. And because that was the easy meal for them, there’s so much food they didn’t have to expend energy chasing after fluttering mayflies. They can just get the easy prey. 00:35:48 Dave: And a cripple. And what would a pattern be that imitates the cripple? This is just something down in the surface, even more than a parachute. 00:35:55 Eric: Yeah, it’s a little bit further down. It’s still a dry, but a little bit more in the film. 00:36:01 Dave: Yeah. Like a I’m something maybe with the CDC on it or something like that. Doesn’t the wings not as big. Yeah. And same size though eighteen twenties. And you’re getting something in that range. 00:36:12 Eric: Yes. Yeah. 00:36:13 Dave: Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Those are great tips for sure. And definitely would love to see I’ll have to hit Warren up on that video. Maybe we can, uh, check that out. Was this something where he just showed you on his phone, or did he have, like, a setup for it? 00:36:24 Eric: No, he he actually, uh, when we were in the, um, the fly shop. Uh, he put it on. They had a big screen TV in there, and we were all watching it. It was really, really just, uh, amazing quality. 00:36:37 Dave: Yeah. Amazing. That’s awesome. So, yeah. So you got the fly shop, and so describe that a little bit as we kind of take it out of here. So you mentioned and the lodge is you know it’s not a massive lodge I think it fits six people right. With uh, I think they’re adding one more room. I think there’s going to be four rooms this year, but I think it was three rooms. Right. So with with six people, there was that was that the event? 00:36:57 Eric: Yeah. Yeah, that was it. And and the lodge is like very, very comfortable. Um. 00:37:04 Dave: It’s on the, it’s near the Missouri. Right. You can see the Missouri kind of out the back. 00:37:08 Eric: It is, it is, you can see the Missouri from the back. And what’s interesting was it was built on property that once belonged to Gary Cooper. 00:37:17 Dave: Gary Cooper, who was he again? 00:37:19 Eric: An actor that was in a lot of old Westerns. 00:37:21 Speaker 4: Oh, right. Yeah. Gary Cooper. 00:37:23 Eric: So like High Noon and yeah, it was and funny enough. And what’s kind of cool? Like, I’m a huge Hemingway fan. Um, and Hemingway apparently had like. And now this was, I think the lodge was built on the airstrip of Gary Cooper’s property. But that that was one of the areas, uh, or actually, I guess back in the day, Hemingway actually fished that area with Gary Cooper. The two of them were friends. 00:37:50 Speaker 4: Oh. 00:37:51 Dave: Wow. Of course they would write. That was back then. I mean, that’s been a big river for many years. 00:37:56 Eric: Yeah. 00:37:57 Dave: Awesome. Well, it sounds like, Eric, you had a great trip. It sounds like the weather was, you know, you had some days there where it was a little rough. But again, I think we’ve all had those days. And I’m a steelhead fisherman, so I know what it’s about. Sometimes the the best days are you got to battle through it a little bit to get to that, you know, to that deal. But um, but this has been great. I’ve got a couple of random ones I want to check with you on, and then we’ll take it out here if anybody have questions. If they have questions for you, we’ll put a link to your Instagram. People can check in. Um, but yeah, this has been great here. And anything else you want to give? Uh. give? Just any other things we miss. Shout out on the trip that you think was unique, or did you kind of cover everything here so far? 00:38:32 Eric: Uh, you know, um, maybe just, uh, like we’ve talked about Warren a lot. We’ve talked about Craig a lot, and they were fantastic. Great, great people, great, great guides. Warren has the patience of a saint. You know, if you’re if you’re nervous about fly fishing or maybe a little rusty. Great. Great person. Very knowledgeable of the river. Obviously. Craig too, you know, knows the river like the back of his hand. But let’s not forget Becky, right? 00:39:03 Dave: She’s back at the lodge. 00:39:04 Speaker 4: Right? 00:39:05 Eric: Yeah. Oh, like every day, you know, especially, you know, when you’re cold. Nothing’s better. There’s appetizers waiting out for you. When you get back, you can have a cocktail. The dinners were unbelievably good, and they don’t skimp on the food. Like you’re going to eat well while you’re there. And, like whether it’s the main course, the desserts, the appetizers, you have a good lunch packed for you every day. Breakfasts are unbelievable. Just, you know, I can’t say it enough. And on top of it, you know, the the thing about staying there is you really felt. You felt like you were part of the family. You felt like you were a welcome guest, like you. You felt like you were a friend of the family. And, you know, you can you know, there’s obviously a lot of places that you can go if you want a lodge or a guided trip, but it really the feeling and the warmth there was fantastic. 00:40:07 Dave: Yeah. That’s amazing. No, I’m glad you said that because I think that’s a big part of the feel. And we’ve had a couple podcasts with with Becky and Craig and, and Warren and I think that that’s what’s, you know, that’s what’s unique is that they have this family. It’s a small family atmosphere. You know, you get to the place and you get probably a different experience than you might get somewhere else, which is cool. So good. This is great, Eric. Well, tell me a couple of, um, you know, you mentioned a couple of things. Hemingway, Harry Carey. You know, I’ve always thinking, uh, you know, Jordan, other than Hemingway, are you a sports fan at all or. What’s that? You’re. Have you been in Chicago most of your life? 00:40:41 Eric: Well, I grew up in Indiana again, so if you want to talk about the fly fishing desert, the Chicago is Indiana might be even bigger, right? 00:40:49 Dave: Even Indiana is even worse than Chicago, right? 00:40:52 Eric: Yeah, but I am, uh, I do like sports. Like I’m coming off of an ecstatic weekend because first off, the bears beat the Eagles, which it’s a team that keeps on surprising me and on top of it, like, I graduated from Indiana University. 00:41:07 Dave: I just saw that. Yeah. They played, um. Purdue right. 00:41:10 Eric: Yeah. Yeah. So they they finished the regular season with a perfect record. First time in my life. 00:41:16 Dave: Twelve and oh. 00:41:17 Eric: Uh, thirteen oh. 00:41:18 Dave: thirteen and oh, perfect record. 00:41:20 Eric: Yeah. It’s just unbelievable. I’m over the moon. So that’s that’s been a highlight. So talking about baseball I’m a White Sox fan. So that’s been a that’s been a sore point. 00:41:34 Dave: That’s right. Who is the White Sox I go back to I always go back to my era when I was really in it the the nineties probably, you know, eighties 90s. It was um, they were good there for a while. Right? They had Frank the big hurt. The big hurt. Right. 00:41:46 Eric: Oh, yeah. Frank Thomas was there. You know, the obviously the year of the strike was supposed to be our year, and that kind of fell apart. And then, you know, two thousand and five finally got to, to see a World Series championship. 00:42:00 Dave: Did they win the World Series in two thousand and five? Yeah they did. So they did win one. Yeah. 00:42:04 Eric: So and that was like the first one. I’m trying to think it was the first one. 00:42:08 Dave: Who was that? Who was the great player on that team. 00:42:10 Eric: Oh they hit a lot. You know it was now Thomas started off on that team but he was hurt. Paul Konerko was on that team. Uh, Jermaine Dye was on that team. Um, I’m trying to think of, uh, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, Pierzynski. Of course, you know, a great player. Uh, so yeah, that was that was a fun team to watch. And especially they were an exciting team. 00:42:33 Dave: That’s so cool. Yeah, we were doing a little it’s interesting. We’ve been doing this genealogy with my our family stuff. And we were looking back through it was, uh, generations on my grandma’s side. And there’s a Jansen or in my family and there’s this Larry Jansen, who was a pitcher for the New York, I think it was the Mets or the Yankees. It would have been the Yankees back then. Or is the Giants actually in his time? This is in the forties, fifties. Anyways. He he was like a big pitcher. He was rookie. He was number two rookie of the year behind, uh, the guy who got it, which is the famous Jackie Robinson. 00:43:07 Eric: Oh wow. Yeah. 00:43:08 Dave: Yeah. So he was probably could have won it. But so anyways, in my family, it’s my it’d be my grandma’s uncle essentially was, was this famous baseball player. So it makes sense to me because I’m like, we have a lot of baseball in our family, my dad and everything. So anyways, I just love the the sports analogies we get into these things. And what is it for you about sports? I love this. I mean, what do you love? You just had Indiana take it down. What is the thing you love most about watching sports? 00:43:32 Eric: Uh, you know, it is. Now there’s two different steps. Like, I like watching sports. I like the pure competition. I like the excitement of it. But when you talk about your teams, you know, there are teams that I have that it’s a little bit deeper than, you know, just entertainment. And it’s just the like the elation that you get when everything goes right or the heartache you feel when it doesn’t go so right. It’s just kind of like you feel like you’re part of it, you know? So obviously like, you know, Monday Night Football is on. I’m going to watch Monday Night Football, you know. But when it’s when it’s your team, you know, for example, when it’s the bears playing, you feel a little bit more connected to to the victories and unfortunately a little bit more connected to the defeats. 00:44:23 Dave: Yeah, that’s the thing. That’s what hurts, right? When you get the defeats and your team. I mean, it’s it’s tough, especially when you have a team that doesn’t win a lot. 00:44:31 Eric: Yeah. 00:44:32 Dave: The challenge of the smaller markets I think this maybe changes. Maybe football’s different. But it seems like, you know the big markets have more championships the LA Lakers, the New York Yankees. It’s kind of a challenge. So if you’re in the smaller market right you’re like you’re probably not winning as much. But no that’s good. Well sports is great. And you mentioned Hemingway. I just want to end on this because I think Hemingway, we’ve heard about him, obviously one of the greatest writers ever. We did an episode, episode five one three, and it was, uh, Mark, Mark Serino, who was on. He talked about he has a podcast on all Hemingway, but what is it about Hemingway for you? 00:45:08 Eric: You know what I have, I have, and it went back, you know, one of the like my earliest experience with Hemingway was the Nick Adams stories. And you’re reading those and you’re just like, man, that would be so cool. But when you start reading it, like the way that he can paint a picture and you know he does it with such sparse style, it’s again, when you’re you’re talking about feeling connected. And that’s to me, the thing about Hemingway is, like his writing made you feel connected to what he was writing about. You know, it wasn’t. And obviously, you know, Hemingway’s not flowery. He’s not you know, he’s not wordy. And there was something like, not only the stories that he was writing and what he chose to write about, but the way that he did it really appealed to me. You know, it’s it’s all meat, you know, like when when he wrote, there was no parsley on the plate. It was all steak. 00:46:06 Dave: Cool. Uh, Eric, I think we could leave it there for today. I really want to thank you for, you know, congratulate you. I’m glad you had a good trip out there. And and thanks for coming on here and sharing all the all the insight. And we’ll definitely keep in touch with you. Hopefully we’ll see. Get you in wet fly swing Pro in the community there and we keep this conversation going. Thanks again for your time. 00:46:25 Eric: Excellent. Thank you so much for having me on, Dave. And uh, thanks for, uh, thanks for the prize package because I really do appreciate that. And, and just anybody listening, you can actually win. 00:46:38 Dave: So you’re a real human being who won a trip, right? 00:46:41 Eric: Exactly. You know, you can’t if you don’t. You can’t win if you don’t enter. Right. 00:46:45 Dave: Exactly. No. That’s great. All right, Eric, we’ll be in touch with you and we’ll talk to you soon. 00:46:49 Eric: All right? Take care. Dave. 00:46:53 Dave: I hope you enjoyed that first ever Beyond the Giveaway episode, part of the Wet Fly Swing Winter series we mentioned Eric Johnson go to at Eric S Johnson if you want to connect with him on Instagram. And, uh, before we go, I just want to let you know, wet Fly Swing Pro we talked about today, if you want to get access to member resources, a private community, everything we have going, we are growing something special in Wet Fly Swing Pro. Uh, you can go to Pro sign up there and we’ll let you know when we open up the doors to Wet Fly Swing Pro and just want to give you a heads up if you’re interested in the trip on to Mark Lodge. We’re going to be going there this year and you want to get access. We’re also doing a conservation event around it. It’s going to be a pretty epic adventure. Send me an email Dave. Com will let you know what we have available there. And and as always, uh, hope you’re having a good morning. Hope you’re having a good afternoon or evening wherever you are in the world, and appreciate you for stopping in and checking out this, uh, Beyond the giveaway series. And let me know if you haven’t chatted with me yet, send me an email. I’d love to hear from you. And, uh, and you have a good one. We’ll talk to you soon. 00:47:59 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to the wet Fly swing Fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit Wet Fly com.