839 | Apache Trout Rivers, Desert Creeks & Carp in the Canals with Ben Smith of AZ Wanderings

00;00;01;29 – 00;00;23;21 Dave Today, we’re heading deep into the heart of the desert to see what fly fishing really looks like across Arizona from chasing native Apache trout in the icy mountain streams to stalking carp in the canals around Phenix. Today’s guest has spent years exploring every hidden corner of this rugged state. By the end of this episode, you’ll have a road map for fishing Arizona from the desert floor to the high country creeks. 00;00;24;02 – 00;00;41;19 Dave And a reminder that even in the driest landscape, there’s always a place for a fly rod and a little curiosity. This is the way fly swing podcast ratio. The best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. 00;00;42;13 – 00;01;02;10 Dave Ben Smith is here to take us into how elevation, heat and water flow shape everything in Arizona and find out what flies work there, what he’s tying these days when nothing else is working, and why small water, stealth and simplicity often lead to the best days on the water. Here we go. Here he is. Ben Smith. You can find him at A-Z. 00;01;02;10 – 00;01;06;03 Dave Wanderings Dotcom. How’s it going, Ben? 00;01;06;16 – 00;01;08;02 Ben Doing good, Dave. Thanks for having me on. 00;01;08;13 – 00;01;24;23 Dave Yeah, Yeah. Thanks for putting some time aside here. We’re going to talk a little bit around Arizona, and I think you’re in the Phenix area. We’re going to touch base on some of the species you have there. One that I haven’t caught yet is Apache trout. You know, brown trout is always on the list of people around the country. 00;01;25;06 – 00;01;38;20 Dave And I think you got started kind of out east and worked your way west. We’re going to talk about that, but maybe we can start there just on kind of your update on you know, I know you’re busy with kids like me. What’s your first memory of your fish? And it started out east for you? 00;01;39;02 – 00;02;13;03 Ben Yeah, it started out east. I grew up in New York. In Pennsylvania. My grandma has a beautiful little cottage on a small lake in Bradford County, and my first memories are fishing on the end of the dock. You know, Duncan, bread balls for sunny and blue gills. And then I must’ve been 11 or 12, and someone gave me a, you know, a Wal-Mart combo for a for a fly rod with some spider patterns and started catching bass and bluegill with that and just had a ton of fun with it. 00;02;13;14 – 00;02;15;26 Dave Nice. And that was it. And so that was in Pennsylvania. 00;02;16;01 – 00;02;17;08 Ben Yeah, that was Yeah. 00;02;17;11 – 00;02;23;25 Dave Yeah. So Pennsylvania and then that area of Northeast. And then when did you make your way out to was that Arizona next on the list for you. 00;02;24;05 – 00;02;49;29 Ben Yeah that’s a roundabout story but I graduated college back in oh one, spent a year or so in Hawaii and then made a move to to Arizona. I was a teacher by trade. I was teaching social studies junior high and high school, met my beautiful wife and she’s from Arizona. She’s an Arizona native and kind of put down roots here. 00;02;49;29 – 00;02;52;18 Ben And that was 18, 19 years ago. 00;02;52;28 – 00;02;58;28 Dave So, yeah, there you go. So now you’re in Phenix, right? You’re like in kind of downtown or outskirts of Phenix? 00;02;59;13 – 00;03;02;11 Ben Yes, sir. We’re on the west side of town, kind of out in the suburbs. 00;03;02;19 – 00;03;09;13 Dave The west side. Okay. What is the fishing opportunities look like there? You know what’s keeping you busy for species and kind of rivers? Waterways? 00;03;09;24 – 00;03;36;05 Ben Yeah, I. I prefer trout fishing, so I. I like to head north and east up on the muggy on rim or the White Mountains. We’ve got some beautiful crystal clear waters up there. And so that’s what I prefer. If, if I’ve got a Saturday, that’s where I’m headed. But we’ve got a lot of urban stuff as well. We’ve got canals and lakes in town that you have carp and tilapia and that’s got a lot of high mountain still. 00;03;36;05 – 00;03;59;23 Ben Waters have got great trout fishing as well. So that’s what I like. Personally, I was kind telling you a little bit before to my son, he’s ten. He’s involved in a great program called Phenix Junior Bass Masters. And so we’re fishing a lot of the the desert lakes that are the dammed up rivers full of large mouths. Some of them have small mouth in them. 00;03;59;23 – 00;04;03;05 Ben And I mean, I’ve been having a ton of fun learning all about that as well. 00;04;03;16 – 00;04;07;23 Dave Nice. So that’s all right around within, what, like an hour of Phenix, all the stuff? 00;04;08;05 – 00;04;12;25 Ben No, I mean, we’re traveling two or 3 hours at minimum to kind of get some of the good stuff. 00;04;12;25 – 00;04;15;23 Dave Yeah. Is that up north or which way is that where you’re headed? 00;04;16;02 – 00;04;17;25 Ben Yeah. North and north and east. 00;04;18;04 – 00;04;35;15 Dave North and east. Okay. Yeah, I got it. And I’m looking at now on the map here. Yeah, you’ve got the Apache sit greaves National Forest. Is that, that’s kind of more down south looks like. But yeah, I mean when you think of Arizona I always think of it like, yeah, hot desert stuff. But yeah, you guys have plenty of mountains, right? 00;04;35;15 – 00;04;39;05 Dave You go north and it sounds like. Is that where you get into some of the Apache trout species? 00;04;39;18 – 00;05;02;12 Ben Yeah, it’s crazy. The state is is big and beautiful, and most people think of the Soros and hot Phenix, which is a lot of it around. But, you know, we’ve got we’ve got areas that get up to, you know, eight, nine, 10,000 feet. There’s skiing and snowboarding in Arizona. So there’s an a good water here. You know, when the creeks are full and the lakes are full, it’s it’s fantastic. 00;05;03;06 – 00;05;31;20 Ben So, yeah, chasing those Apaches. And then we’ve got another color trail, which is a native of New Mexico and in Arizona. So those were both I think they were both endangered at one point. And then back in the early 2000s, they got real serious about protecting habitat, doing some improvements and getting more fish in the water. And they’ve got some pretty stable populations now that are that are reproducing, which is good. 00;05;32;03 – 00;05;37;15 Dave Yeah. And so where would you have to go? Or the HeLa and the Apache in the same same stream, same area. 00;05;37;25 – 00;06;01;08 Ben Yeah. Most of them are up there kind of in the White Mountains, which is on the eastern side of the state. They’ve put healers in. I think they started stocking them in Oak Creek, which is in Sedona, which isn’t too far from Phenix, probably an hour and a half, two hour drive. But yeah, those are that’s been kind of the initiative lately, is trying to get native fish back on the back on the landscape. 00;06;01;08 – 00;06;13;14 Ben And they’ve they’ve done a good job. But we’ve got we’ve got a lot of species in the state too. You can you can find Rainbow’s brook trout, cutthroat and grayling and brown trout as well. Those are the the river while. 00;06;13;20 – 00;06;15;08 Dave All right. Grayling too. I didn’t realize that. 00;06;15;16 – 00;06;17;18 Ben Yeah. Some of the still waters have them all right. 00;06;17;18 – 00;06;30;21 Dave Still ours. Okay. So what is your so it sounds like you’re involved pretty a lot with your son, with the bass and all that stuff. If you’re not doing the bass, what what do you think is the trip? If you have a weekend on your, you know, to go anywhere out there where you had first. 00;06;31;06 – 00;06;46;09 Ben On I’m probably fine in a remote canyon somewhere where you know most of the Arizona guys, which I’m going to say and you know, I’m diving off a side of that and spending the day in there or, you know, maybe even taking a ten down to stay in the night. 00;06;46;16 – 00;06;48;07 Dave Right. Chasing for trout. 00;06;48;15 – 00;06;58;22 Ben Chasing trout, Yeah. The brown trout, real big. I mean, they they’re just big carnivorous fish and always fun to tie into a good, you know, a 20 inch fish or maybe even bigger. 00;06;59;03 – 00;07;05;18 Dave That’s awesome. What’s your technique? You’re doing a you kind of doing like a little bit of everything dries, wets or nymphs or what? What do you do in there? 00;07;06;00 – 00;07;24;03 Ben Yeah, it’s interesting. The first half of the season, like I like seeing a fish come up and blow up for dry fly. So a lot of dry fly action early on. A lot of our creeks have crayfish in them. And so when you catch one of those big ones, especially in the fall, they are there. You can just feel it in their bellies. 00;07;24;03 – 00;07;38;05 Ben They’re full of crayfish. So we’re we’re stripping streamers, do the big pools, and even the little step across creeks here, You know, every once in a while there’s a there’s a big pool and man, there’s there’s always a good brown trout in there. So there. 00;07;38;05 – 00;07;45;19 Dave Is. Okay, what do you think is the the best time of year, you know, for you if you’re going if you can go any time, when is that time you would be hitting it. 00;07;45;27 – 00;08;11;09 Ben Yeah, me, me and my one buddy Antonia, we’re always trying to trip, trying to find a day in in May, May or June. It’s finally nice out. The runoff has cleared up the water and yeah, that’s that’s probably the best time. And then and then there in the fall like right about now. And you know, anytime from late September to to November, as long as I mean, we went Wade just about everything here as much as you can. 00;08;11;09 – 00;08;17;02 Ben So as long as you can still stay on the cold water and the cold, cold air, you know, that’s kind of the trick. 00;08;17;09 – 00;08;33;06 Dave Yeah, well, wait. Okay, so the yeah, the spring. So after the the high water drops down and then before it gets hot and then also in the fall. So right now it’s. Yeah. We’re getting ready to come in in November. What is it like there, Is it still pretty temperature wise and conditions wise. What’s it looking like right now? 00;08;33;18 – 00;08;55;02 Ben Well, we finally turn the air conditioning off, which is kind of nice. Yeah. Oh, you know, you’re sleeping with the windows open right now in Phenix, and we’re getting down into the high sixties. Leaves are leaves are turning. We were just up in up north of the Grand Canyon. My kids had a junior Cal Elk and all the all the leaves have turned and it’s it’s real pretty up there in the high country. 00;08;55;02 – 00;08;56;29 Ben So. Yeah, that’s nice. 00;08;57;07 – 00;09;00;26 Dave Yeah. You guys are mixing in a little bit of sounds like hunting as well as fishing. 00;09;01;06 – 00;09;05;02 Ben Oh, yeah. Yeah. Always trying to Always trying to fill the freezer with three kids. 00;09;05;11 – 00;09;08;06 Dave What’s your hunting? What’s your species? That you’re going for? 00;09;08;18 – 00;09;24;02 Ben Oh, we’re on a we’re on a lottery system out here. It’s called a draw system. So anything we can get a tag for. But always trying to get in elk tag. I like Hunt and Cous Deer, which are small, you know, Western white tails in the desert. 00;09;24;10 – 00;09;25;09 Dave Oh, okay. Yeah. 00;09;25;17 – 00;09;32;04 Ben And then I like turkey and I’ve got a couple bird dogs. I love the bird hunt, so. Yeah. And anything that gets me outside, man, gets me excited. 00;09;32;10 – 00;09;40;18 Dave Right. So you got accused. Yeah, I’ve heard of those. And then bird hunting. Is it pretty much everything? Pheasants, white chocolate. Like, what are the species are you going for? 00;09;40;29 – 00;10;02;29 Ben We do have some pheasant and some chucker, but most of what people are chasing in Arizona are quail. We’ve got three real distinct, good populations of, uh, of quail. We’ve got, um, Gamble’s quail, which everybody sees in town. They’ve got a top out under head. We have scaled quail, and we’ve got a Mearns quail down south right on the border. 00;10;03;11 – 00;10;22;10 Dave All right. Okay. Aquila Awesome. Okay, so, yeah, so between hunting and let’s, let’s go back to I like thinking of it as somebody coming in to Phenix. You know, maybe they’re new to the area. Maybe they’re coming in for a business trip, which people do quite a bit and they want to pop out for a day. And it’s this time of year, you know, it’s October, November, and pop out maybe for a fishing. 00;10;22;19 – 00;10;33;04 Dave You know, it sounds like you guys have plenty of secret spots out there. Where would you direct them or where could they figure out where to go if they want to just go to one of these places where they can find some trout, maybe drop off a canyon wall, like you said? 00;10;33;16 – 00;10;55;08 Ben Yeah. I think one of the one of the prettiest and most iconic spots and well-known spots is probably Oak Creek up in Sedona, Big Red Rocks, the town’s cool little hippie dippy, but I mean, once you drive up Oak Creek Canyon, they’re like the creeks right alongside you, and you can kind of pop out in different areas. There’s brown trout, rainbows. 00;10;55;08 – 00;10;57;09 Ben There are some heeler trout in there and. 00;10;57;09 – 00;10;57;27 Dave Oh, nice. 00;10;58;04 – 00;11;12;24 Ben And they take pretty good care of it. If it’s summertime, like it’s busy with with these folks who are swimming and rock jumping. So it’s not great fishing. But those shoulder seasons like the spring in the fall before Memorial Day and after Labor Day is great. 00;11;13;04 – 00;11;18;09 Dave That’s great. Okay. So like right now, it’s probably temperatures are cooling off there. It’s probably perfect right now, right? 00;11;18;09 – 00;11;19;24 Ben It’s perfect for right now, for sure. 00;11;19;24 – 00;11;25;26 Dave Yeah, for sure. Okay. And that’s just yeah, from Phenix. You just hop on a 17 highway 17 drive north. Right. Right up to it. 00;11;26;00 – 00;11;44;20 Ben That’s it. Yeah. We’ve got to. I mean, if, if you don’t have that much time, it’s. It’s always worth bringing a flier out though. There’s a bunch of guys here in town. They get after the carp and the canals and the guys, they’ll have pheasant, tail, fly fishing and low water guides. They do day guy trips and man, they’re they got that stuff dialed in. 00;11;45;00 – 00;11;45;28 Ben Looks like a lot of fun. 00;11;46;04 – 00;12;02;20 Dave So yeah, yeah. We’ve had at least one episode on carp, urban carp in Phenix. I can’t remember exactly that one. I’ll put a link. We’ll get a link out in the show notes. That one. That was cool because yeah, it’s really a unique area, you know, and people wouldn’t think of the opportunities. But yeah, you don’t have to go too far right out of Phenix. 00;12;02;22 – 00;12;03;29 Ben That’s it. Yeah. 00;12;03;29 – 00;12;16;15 Dave Okay. You know, on the Trout. So if somebody is heading up on that, they’re going to fish the Oak Creek area. What should they be preparing for their like, what would you be thinking this time of year? Is this something where you’re you’re probably going to get some dry fly action or what is that going to look like? 00;12;16;23 – 00;12;39;16 Ben Maybe you might get a you might get a real small blooming olive hatch or Midge Hatch. Thing about Oak Creek is it does get a fair bit of pressure. So long leaders being real sneaky. It’s it’s got some quick spots in it but mostly it’s fairly slow. So you know, moving moving as slow as you can push and ripples ahead in that water. 00;12;40;05 – 00;12;57;22 Ben The fish are pretty in-tune with what’s going on around them. But the usual suspects, you know, stripping wooly buggers or some sort of streamer, you know, parachute Adam’s pheasant tails, little bit of cowardice here and there, especially around around Mother’s Day. You know, we get Mother’s Day hats and all that. 00;12;57;22 – 00;13;17;19 Dave So interesting. Now it’s cool because, you know, as you look around and I think about the episodes we’ve done, we’ve definitely covered New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, you know, Nevada, not quite as much, you know, and obviously California. So you guys are kind of, you know, I guess Arizona definitely doesn’t get as much play. But how would you break that out? 00;13;17;19 – 00;13;23;25 Dave Because, I mean, you’ve got you’re in Phenix, Tucson’s below you. What’s the other biggest city in Arizona other than Phenix and Tucson? 00;13;24;12 – 00;13;34;15 Ben Probably Flagstaff. It’s like central Flagstaff. That’s that’s growing quite a bit. They got a college up there and a lot of people are jamming up the 17 on a Friday afternoon trying to get up there. 00;13;34;15 – 00;13;51;16 Dave So. Oh, they are okay. Yeah. So that’s fine. Oh, yeah. Flagstaff is just north. I see. Okay. And so what are the options? So you met some city, kind of the carp. Phenix, you’ve got the trout stuff we’re talking about. And then also you’ve got the Stillwater fishing. Yeah. Is that Stillwater? Is that also kind of up north? 00;13;51;16 – 00;13;51;29 Dave Most of it. 00;13;52;06 – 00;14;15;05 Ben Most of it’s east. There are lakes kind of all over, but most of the serious guys, Stillwater guys, they’re going to go up to the White Mountains. There’s a White Mountains Lake Foundation that has done incredible work up there. They’ve got I think they’ve got a couple of aerators on some lakes and keeping those fisheries alive and well and healthy. 00;14;15;28 – 00;14;38;11 Ben So yeah, there’s a lot up there. There’s a couple of Indian reservations that have, you know, a number of really good lakes on them. So just check regulations and make sure you’re buying the right license and permit when you’re heading up there. I think, you know, just to speak on one of those fisheries that I had a little bit of experience with a number of years ago, before and after I had kids and I could run up there all the time. 00;14;38;25 – 00;14;52;07 Ben And we always used to go fish Christmas Tree Lake and I think they call it Christmas tree. Like I’m sure someone will tell me if I get this wrong, but I think they’re cut down one of the like a White House Christmas tree up there. So it on that property. 00;14;52;08 – 00;14;53;02 Dave Oh, there you go. 00;14;53;02 – 00;15;08;19 Ben So but that that lakes full of of Apache trout and you know I just I’ve got to think memories of fish in the fall and you know hanging hanging around them and stuff like that and catching catching great partnership there with some buddies. 00;15;08;19 – 00;15;16;13 Dave So yeah, catch an Apache trout and Apache trout. Is, is it a cutthroat trout or is it a rain or what’s it closer to? 00;15;16;21 – 00;15;21;04 Ben You’re asking the wrong guy. Yeah, Yeah, I know. It’s a cousin of the rainbow. 00;15;21;05 – 00;15;43;07 Dave It guys are a I’m looking up photos. That’s really cool because it looks a little like a cutthroat, but. But, yeah, it’s really beautiful. And and so and that’s actually we’ve been talking a lot about that. The Western Trout Initiative. Right? There’s a challenge and it’s kind of like catch you know, native fish on their home range, you know, And that’s why I think these podcast episodes are interesting because Apache healer, trout, those are fish I haven’t caught. 00;15;43;20 – 00;15;56;11 Dave And, you know, I’m sure it’s on a lot of people’s lists. So, you know, to get these it sounds like you’ve caught both of them. Are they is this something that’s doable, you know, out there? You could probably if you did your work, you can find these these fish super doable. 00;15;56;11 – 00;16;12;00 Ben Yeah. Yeah. And it’s the beautiful thing about fly fishing is it takes you to unique places that most folks are are skipping right by on the highway, you know, and you’re getting out and walking and see him seeing really beautiful country that Arizona has to offer. It’s it’s awesome. 00;16;12;12 – 00;16;24;28 Dave Yeah that’s cool. Right? So you got those are the two native and then and like we mentioned some of the lakes and and some of the the stuff around the city which is mostly is that mostly a carp game when you’re talking around you know within or around Phenix right there. Close. 00;16;25;07 – 00;16;26;11 Ben Yeah. Carp and pass. 00;16;28;12 – 00;16;49;21 Dave Fish out expeditions offers world class fly fishing right off Alaska’s incredible road system, from monster rainbow trout to feisty Arctic grayling. You’ll chase big species in the stunning landscape, whether you’re a seasoned angler or just starting out there. Expert guides ensure an unforgettable adventure Book your trip today before spots fill up and experience Alaska’s diversity like never before. 00;16;50;03 – 00;17;13;20 Dave Check them out right now that’s Fish Town expeditions dot com Discover Smitty’s fly box for premium flies their monthly subscription service delivers expertly crafted flies and materials tailored to your fishing environment. Boasting over 30 years of experience, Smitty’s is your trusted source for a diverse range of flies. Enhance your fishing experience and make life easier with their carefully created selections. 00;17;14;00 – 00;17;36;20 Dave You can subscribe right now at Smitty’s Globacom and join a community of passionate anglers. What’s the fly? Maybe talk about that a little bit because you’ve got this website we mentioned Easy wanderings dot com. Talk about how you first got the idea to start that and what you’re doing because you are doing some stuff around time flies and for old leaders maybe describe that a little bit. 00;17;36;24 – 00;17;57;04 Ben Yeah she this goes back a little ways it must have been almost 1520 years ago. And I like riding, I like taking pictures. And it was just an outlet for me to kind of share what I was doing with friends and family and it was probably about that height where there was, you know, everybody was blogging back before all the YouTube stuff, and I. 00;17;57;15 – 00;18;11;27 Dave Was 15, so 25. So we’re talking now. 2010 Yeah, which is cool because that’s the how even before I was really got started and yeah, so you were there back in the day, right when the blogging was really huge. It was everything. I mean, like that was the biggest thing. 00;18;12;04 – 00;18;37;06 Ben Yeah, it was a lot of fun to see what other guys were doing as far as fishing goes and kind of got involved in that as well. And got really into fly tying. So I had a couple couple patterns I was tying up and had had some really good customers, still have really good customers that reached out every once in a while needing specific things to tie up and kind of takes me out of whatever I’m time and gets me, gives me trying something different. 00;18;37;06 – 00;18;59;23 Ben So that’s been really good. And then about that same time I had a friend the hand Me a furled leader made out of in a thread on a on a creek. And some of our some of our creeks take some casting, but most of them are real finesse casting. And so you’re, you’re only having maybe a foot or two a fly line out of the end of your at the end of your guides and these four leaders. 00;18;59;23 – 00;19;12;16 Ben I just I kind of fell in love with them. I felt like they presented the fly really well. It was an extension of the fly line and just rolled right over. So I started telling those as well. And so those on my website, I like using those a lot. 00;19;12;20 – 00;19;26;06 Dave They do okay here, the fro and then and then what are some of the You’ve got a few while. Yeah. You got some bunch of different flies here but what are the most common you know flies you think you’re tying up for Arizona if you had to pick a you know, your top five half a dozen flies. 00;19;26;13 – 00;19;53;04 Ben Yeah I so I, I kind of bastardize a pattern. I call it the mini hopper. It’s, it’s a little cactus kind of hopper pattern. Real attractor, real great attractor. And that’s that’s what I mostly tie. I’ve got another hopper pattern. It’s kind of like a hopper one for me. A lot of hair. That one works for a while for me, just kind of all the basics with with my own touch on them that at home, the way I like them. 00;19;53;04 – 00;19;58;17 Ben And they seem to fish really well for me and my friends. So that’s what I’m trying for folks. And. 00;19;58;27 – 00;20;05;28 Dave Okay. And what about the for all leaders? What is what’s the the background on that? Why why the for leaders? What do they do? Well. 00;20;06;14 – 00;20;30;24 Ben Yeah, I think they just I think they lay out so much better than some of the mono ones, you know. Yeah. You pull that mono one out of the package and you’re you’re not in it up half the time trying to get it undone where the firm leader, it doesn’t have any memory in it. And so at the start of the day I’ll grease it up with like, like some sort of paste or float in and it’ll ride high throughout the day. 00;20;31;11 – 00;20;47;07 Ben And then if I carry on a screamer, you know, I’ll, I’ll run the same leader, but I won’t, I won’t put any floating on it and it just kind of sinks and I like the kind of olive color and it just seems to, it just works with the style of fish and that I’m, that I’m doing, you know. 00;20;47;17 – 00;20;54;04 Dave Yeah, right. So it adds rigidity to your leader and it just better presentation essentially. Is that kind of a big part of it? 00;20;54;10 – 00;21;03;19 Ben That’s it. Yeah. I like the five foot and it comes with a tippet ring on the end and then I’ll, I’ll peel off another five foot of tippet, whatever I’m using and I’m good to go. 00;21;04;00 – 00;21;14;00 Dave That’s good. Okay. And what about, what about on gear a little bit here? Like right away, if you’re talking trout fishing, Arizona, what’s your kind of go to length weight or you know on the rod. 00;21;14;10 – 00;21;32;19 Ben Yeah some of the bigger creeks there I know like some of the high mountain stuff can get pretty blustery. We get some high winds. So I prefer like just to carry a nine foot five weight, you know, I’m like every other fly fisherman, though, You know, my wife takes a peek behind my closet door and she’s like, what are you doing with all of these? 00;21;32;19 – 00;21;33;27 Dave Fly Right, Right. 00;21;34;07 – 00;21;44;08 Ben Yeah, Yeah. Like I need them, you know, hand them down Sunday to my kids and Exactly. So, yeah, I, I prefer the nine, four, five way, but I, you know, I’m kind of fishing a little bit. Everything. 00;21;44;18 – 00;21;59;26 Dave Yeah. You did it all. Okay And so the five way because yeah you could fish some of these smaller species probably a four way would be fine or maybe something lighter. But the five is nice because it can kind of handle what do you think it is just better on windy conditions or what do you think is the. 00;21;59;26 – 00;22;01;14 Dave Yeah. Where is that performance for. 00;22;01;18 – 00;22;26;02 Ben Yeah, for sure. It’s, it’s punching through the wind and that’s, that’s mainly on some of the stuff that I that I know the canyons pretty well. I know they’re going to be windy I will fish a three way and like a76 or an eight on the really small stuff. I mean we get some pretty choked little streams out here, covered up and brush some trees and you’re just roll casting and bow and arrow casting the little paper plates, those spots. 00;22;26;02 – 00;22;28;29 Ben And so those come in handy for sure. 00;22;29;05 – 00;22;42;18 Dave Yeah. What is it like since you’ve been you’ve been out there quite a while, whatever, seven, 15, 20 years. What as you’ve seen a lot of like, you know, changes in that time in Arizona in fly fishing, you know, and that scene out there and the streams and everything. 00;22;43;00 – 00;23;03;05 Ben Yeah, a little bit most of the stuff is has remained the same. You know, the the changes with the Apache and the Heeler, they’re, they’re, they’re constantly trying to, to relocate them and put them back in native ranges. So you know, some of the streams that you knew, you know, held wild rainbows or whatever, they’re, they’re trying to change them up. 00;23;03;23 – 00;23;15;19 Ben So in essence, it’s been pretty steady. I think you brought up changes. I think the one change that’s been kind of disappointing to see is Lees Fairy, the Colorado River. 00;23;15;28 – 00;23;16;13 Dave Oh, right. 00;23;16;19 – 00;23;26;06 Ben So that historically has been an unbelievable rainbow fishery. I mean, 30, 40 years ago they were catching ten plus pound fish out of there. 00;23;26;06 – 00;23;27;06 Dave And that’s right. 00;23;27;14 – 00;23;52;06 Ben There is a battle between, you know, the power from the dam, the National Park Service below Game and Fish, you know, USGS, everybody’s got an opinion and everybody’s got a a say on it. And the fishery has has suffered a lot. But there’s a there’s another guy you should talk to. His name is Dave Foster. He grew up on on the cliff looking over the river of. 00;23;52;06 – 00;23;53;27 Dave The Grand Canyon or the Colorado. 00;23;53;27 – 00;23;56;21 Ben Yeah. Of the Colorado right across from Marble Canyon Lodge. 00;23;56;23 – 00;24;01;14 Dave Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The marble. We’ve done a whole series on the boats. There’s boats in there, so. 00;24;01;14 – 00;24;04;17 Ben Yeah, There you go. Now, his mom on that, like, way back. 00;24;04;17 – 00;24;05;02 Dave Oh, wow. 00;24;05;16 – 00;24;18;00 Ben So he’s been up there forever. And my wife and I took a couple of trips with him and fell in love with him and the place up there and the fishery is just it’s just slowed way down. There’s way less fish. 00;24;18;11 – 00;24;24;14 Dave Is that because of the water quality stuff that whatever they’ve been doing changes And yeah, droughts plus everything else? 00;24;24;24 – 00;24;43;07 Ben Yeah, it has. I think it has more to do with how much water they’re letting out of the dam, that they’re constantly doing high flow events. It blows out a bunch of the aquatic species they’re eating and then, you know, the lower it way down and all the stuff up on the rocks dies. And it just it has not been managed well for a fishery. 00;24;43;07 – 00;24;48;01 Ben And I think there’s a lot of there’s a lot of heartache there from some of the local guys, which is sad. 00;24;48;10 – 00;25;08;00 Dave Right? Right. Yeah. It’s really yeah, I forget about that. It’s funny because we’re talking to Arizona down in Phenix and you don’t even think about the Grand Canyon. But yeah, you’ve got an amazing national park just up north. And Lisse very is out right near the border just by Utah. But yeah, the Grand Canyon cuts all the way across pretty much the whole western United States, Right. 00;25;08;00 – 00;25;14;20 Dave And then eventually gets sucked up dry from, you know, all the the all the cities and doesn’t even make it to the ocean now, right? 00;25;14;20 – 00;25;15;28 Ben That’s right. That’s right. 00;25;15;28 – 00;25;30;16 Dave That’s pretty crazy story. But yeah, I mean, I think we always have lots of work to do, right? So it’s good. I would love to hear that, to see what they’re doing, you know, what the biologists are doing out there and, you know, protect those, bring them back, because there must be native species in the Colorado. Right. That are out there somewhere. 00;25;30;22 – 00;25;50;27 Ben Yeah. And that’s that’s a part of the the dilemma. The water that comes out of that dam is so cold, the native fish aren’t up there, but they’re still the they’re still the folks that want to kill the trout to make way for the native populations, but they don’t mix in that same water anyway. They’re they’re way lower down on the river where it’s where it’s warmer. 00;25;51;10 – 00;26;13;27 Ben I mean, and this is 12, 13 years ago now. My wife and I, we hired him to the Grand Canyon, and Bright Angel Creek right there at the bottom was a phenomenal brown and rainbow fishery. And they were killing that all off at that time. I, I haven’t been down there since. But yeah they’re, they’re constantly trying to balance native fish in the fishery itself so. 00;26;14;08 – 00;26;29;03 Dave Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay so yeah, so we’re hitting the Grand Canyon, we’re hitting, you know, around the state, which is awesome. What do you think is a most common or a common misconception about Arizona fly fishing that you think people might have? Or if you’ve talked to people that have had that misconception? 00;26;29;25 – 00;26;53;21 Ben Yeah. I mean, I think most people just are surprised that there’s trout in Arizona, you know, from folks that are back east or whatever. You know, you post them pictures are like, holy smokes, I didn’t know there were trout in Arizona. I think that’s probably the big one. I will say I think some of our fishing, even though it’s small streams and we do have the still waters, I feel like the fishermen in Arizona are pretty dang good fishermen. 00;26;53;21 – 00;27;09;16 Ben Like if you can fish in Arizona, like you can kind of go anywhere and figure out, you know, they’re pretty resilient guys and we’re very grateful for what we have and there’s not a ton of it. So guys tend to be pretty secretive about their spots and, you know. 00;27;10;10 – 00;27;25;16 Dave Yeah, yeah. No, that’s right. And sounds like you with your with your son there and the the bass masters. Maybe talk about that a little bit. That sounds like a pretty awesome deal. How did you how did you learn about that and how did he come into the basement? What was it as a the junior bass master, What was it called? 00;27;25;19 – 00;27;42;14 Ben Yeah, the Phenix Junior Bass masters. So I had heard about it through an acquaintance. His son had been in it, and my son was, I think he was six or seven, and he loves the fish. When we go back east, you know, he’ll he’ll come along on fly fishing trips and, you know, we’re trying to get him fishing. 00;27;43;02 – 00;28;04;24 Ben So the program I don’t know how long ago it started. It’s it’s been going for a while. They’ve got a junior side of it, which is 8 to 14, and then they’ve got a high school side of it in the high school. So it’s super competitive. Like I think a bunch of the kids from last year, like they got out on scholarships to go to college and fish at different places in the Southeast and Texas. 00;28;05;13 – 00;28;26;13 Ben But the juniors program that he’s in, there’s a there’s a drawer side of it which are for kids without boats and without a fishing partner, which is how how my son started. And so every you know, they do six, eight tournaments a year and he would get paired with a different kid in a different boat captain on all the different desert lakes that we have. 00;28;26;13 – 00;28;47;21 Ben And his points would follow him through the year and they crown an angler of the year. At the end of the year, they do, you know, prizes for first, second and third in every tournament. And it’s just like an awesome, awesome program to get kids in the fishing or, you know, further into fishing, as happened with us last year. 00;28;47;21 – 00;29;02;11 Ben We got we got hooked up with an awesome father son duo who had a boat when we were teammates all through the year. The boys did really good. They were eight and nine years old, so they they were on the bottom end of the juniors program. 00;29;02;28 – 00;29;04;15 Dave So like younger. They’re the younger ones. 00;29;04;16 – 00;29;22;28 Ben Yeah. So they’re fishing against, you know, 13 and 14 year olds, I’m sure, holding their own. And we just got kicked off in a couple of tournaments so far this year. And we’ve got we’ve got Lake Pleasant actually Sunday. So they’re going to go out and try and try and find a win there. 00;29;23;08 – 00;29;27;22 Dave Yeah. And is this mostly conventional fishing like like pigeon bass fishing? 00;29;27;27 – 00;29;39;21 Ben It is, yeah. It’s it’s all, you know, standard conventional tackle, which has been interesting for me. Like I love to fly fish, but like all of us, like I’m a fisherman, like, I like to well, to feel. 00;29;39;21 – 00;29;41;07 Dave It me do it all do it on. 00;29;41;13 – 00;29;50;21 Ben It’s taught me a bunch about about bass and about fishing and just using different techniques. And I’ve enjoyed it a lot. 00;29;50;21 – 00;30;10;04 Dave Let’s take a break and check in with Jackson Hole Flight Company. Right now, the right gear can turn a good day on the water into an unforgettable one. Jackson Hole. Fly company’s combo kits are built to match the rhythm of the river, giving you everything you need in one simple package, each kit pairs a perfectly match rod and reel with essential accessories. 00;30;10;04 – 00;30;35;08 Dave It’s ready to fish right out of the box from the beginner friendly Crystal Creek to the high performance Flat Creek. There’s a set up for every angler and don’t forget about their packs and slings. I’ve been loving my Jackson Hole Sling pack for a number of years now. The perfect size to fit all your gear, but not too heavy and not too big to drag you down to check out their slings and rods and much more at Jackson Hole Flight Company Dotcom. 00;30;35;08 – 00;30;59;15 Dave And you can support this podcast by checking in with Jackson Hole Flight Company today. Some places are just different. You feel it The second you step into the water. Mount Waters Resort sits on the legendary Portland Creek, a place where Atlantic salmon runs strong and where fly fishing history was written. Lee Wolf himself fished these waters, and now you get to experience the same world class fishing in a setting that feels untouched by time. 00;30;59;15 – 00;31;15;21 Dave Whether you’re swinging flies for fresh chrome or kicking back in a cozy riverside cabin. This is the kind of trip you’ll be talking about for years and years to come. And guess what? I’ll be there this year as well. But here’s the deal. Prime time season fills up fast, so don’t wait. Check in now and join me on this historic river. 00;31;15;29 – 00;31;36;21 Dave This year. You can head over to Wet Fly Swing Dcoms slash a mountain waters. Right now that’s Mount Waters Resort. You can go to wet fly, swing, dotcom slash mountain waters right now and save your spot for this epic adventure. How does the tournament work for the best masters there? 00;31;37;02 – 00;31;56;26 Ben Yeah, we b before dark or before light, I guess. And we get everybody on the water and then they do a check in and we sing the national anthem, say a prayer, and then we do like a boat drive by showing your live well. And usually where we’re rippin away from the dock by like 630, 7:00 kind of thing. 00;31;57;03 – 00;32;13;03 Ben And then it’s a it’s a return at 130 for check in. You’re allowed five fish, and then they do a live weigh ins. The boys do everything, you know, basically first made on the boat. Yeah. I’m re rigging rigging rods. 00;32;13;04 – 00;32;15;12 Dave Yeah. Yeah. So you’re helping. You’re helping while they’re fishing? 00;32;15;13 – 00;32;29;05 Ben Yeah. I mean, they’re. They’re doing all the fishing and then the other dads run in the boat and cool between the four of us, we, we try and get five fish in the boat and, and then we start call in after that and try and try and find the biggest fish we can and. 00;32;29;15 – 00;32;31;29 Dave Okay. And so you have a live well, you put fish in the live well. 00;32;31;29 – 00;32;32;24 Ben Yes, sir. Yep. 00;32;32;26 – 00;32;37;23 Dave Yeah. So open label and then you, you have them in there and as soon as you get a bigger one you release one that’s smaller. 00;32;37;26 – 00;32;38;24 Ben Yep, that’s it. 00;32;38;24 – 00;32;41;29 Dave Oh wow. That’s cool. And because they’re bass, these are largemouth bass. 00;32;42;09 – 00;32;45;10 Ben Largemouth. And then some of our lakes have small mouth in them as well. 00;32;45;10 – 00;32;54;24 Dave So I’m out too. But since they’re bass, they’re pretty resilient so you can put them in. Yeah. I guess they’re in a water there. A nice oxygenated livewell. Right. So it’s and then you release them. They’re fine. 00;32;55;01 – 00;33;11;19 Ben Yeah. And then we’ve got dump tanks at the launch so their fish are always in water and making sure they’re all headed back and back alive. So it’s been pretty cool. Like I, I know there’s bass fishing tournaments, I’ve never watched one or been a part of it until this. 00;33;11;19 – 00;33;27;07 Dave And yeah, how are they, How are those. Because I’ve always see the I mean I’ve probably watched parts of one but you know you see all the guys with their, all the sponsors and they’re right there, boats, they’re all, you know, it’s kind of cool, right? It’s a totally different world. So what do you think? You’ve watched a few of those now. 00;33;27;16 – 00;33;42;25 Ben Yeah, it is a different world. It’s it’s interesting to see the bass fishermen are super reliant on electronics. You know, they’re using, you know, back to the old sonar stuff. And then now they’ve got these front facing sonars. And you can you can see. 00;33;42;25 – 00;33;43;24 Dave From the video game. 00;33;43;24 – 00;34;00;07 Ben It is just like video game fish. And I don’t love that part of it. But like I also I get it and then in the pros, like there’s so much money involved in winning and you can get the best stuff on your boat and find fish like that’s the name of the game. So. 00;34;00;16 – 00;34;17;06 Dave Right. Yeah, it’s it is pretty crazy. Yeah, there’s money any time there’s a lot of money involved in anything, you know, it really changes the game if it gets company mean that’s why you look at the of the professional sports. Yeah I mean at the highest level the best players because there’s money there’s millions and millions of dollars in fly fishing isn’t that way. 00;34;17;06 – 00;34;35;10 Dave That’s really interesting because we’ve talked a lot of teams about Team USA, right. Which, you know, we have this great anglers in the only thing and all that stuff. And I mean, they struggle to put together the budget to get people to travel around, you know what I mean? It’s like totally different and, and I guess that’s because, yeah, you don’t have as much money involved. 00;34;35;24 – 00;34;44;04 Dave But no, it’s cool. I think it’s all good for the kids. You know, I think getting any time you get a kid excited about something right is here is his thing. Is he like, totally fired up for it. 00;34;44;16 – 00;35;16;11 Ben Man. He likes everything he’s doing so well. Whatever he’s doing, he’s excited about it. But, you know, I’ve got a girl, boy, girl, and okay, they all they all like being outside. They all like to camp. We did a big too week road trip up through California into Oregon and hit all the national parks and fished our whole way there that, you know, I had a truck all loaded down and we ended up swinging out through like the Sierra Nevada is and catching some golden trout and oh. 00;35;16;12 – 00;35;16;25 Dave Cool. 00;35;17;01 – 00;35;28;14 Ben Kern rainbows and then up up through sequoia and kings and, and Yosemite and dude, there’s there’s phenomenal fishing out there. Nobody’s fishing in those persons is. Great. 00;35;28;24 – 00;35;33;28 Dave Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. So you guys did the is this like road trip had in this camper. How are you guys doing all that. 00;35;34;02 – 00;35;38;14 Ben Oh no. Just a just a big tent. Yeah. Yeah. We’re. 00;35;39;10 – 00;35;41;20 Dave We’re that’s, that’s great to me. That’s awesome. 00;35;41;27 – 00;35;46;14 Ben Yeah. Someday we’ll get a camper. Maybe once kids are gone. But we’re having fun in the tent right now. 00;35;46;14 – 00;36;00;13 Dave And while the tents are nice, because you’re more, you know, kind of you can just go, you know, I mean, like, you see some of the campers. I’ve done the camper thing, and it’s tough because it’s a big thing you’re pulling and it takes twice as like to do anything. So there’s something about being light and nimble. Yeah. 00;36;00;26 – 00;36;21;19 Dave You know, throwing up a tent or even throwing we we actually sleep on. Just throw a tarp out on the ground. We do that all the time under the stars. Oh, yeah. You know, but gosh, so. So you get your kids going and then yes, they’re going back to Arizona. So again, somebody is kind of listening. Maybe they’re going to be out in that area or maybe they’re in the Arizona and so the best opportunities are, I mean, for sure, heading up into the mountains, heading up north from Phenix is good. 00;36;21;28 – 00;36;30;11 Dave What about the Stillwater? Is is that so? You’re saying head east there some opportunities. Where would somebody give get low information on, you know, where to hit for Stillwater fishing. 00;36;30;19 – 00;36;57;12 Ben Yeah we’ve got we’ve got a couple of good local shops that are phenomenal resources pheasant, hail, fly fishing and then easy fly shop. Both those guys can get you pointed in the right direction or if you’re down in Tucson, Dry Creek Fly shop is a good shop and then they’re going to send you up north. So there’s there’s some of those Stillwater are on national forest land and all this is pretty Google ball. 00;36;57;12 – 00;37;10;14 Ben You can you can find a ton of information there And then the way Mount Apache Reservation, they’ve got some they’ve got some great, great information and some really good rivers and creeks. And Stillwater is up there. 00;37;10;23 – 00;37;28;16 Dave Okay, perfect. Yeah, that’s and that’s usually my Flash on Friday segment. So we got that as we kind of take it out of here. So, so good. Anything else on what you have going right? Do you think you’re ever going to get back into the website or get back into YouTube or you just kind of you’re probably busy with your kids? 00;37;28;19 – 00;37;30;26 Dave I don’t have a lot of extra time to jump back into all that. 00;37;31;05 – 00;37;53;18 Ben Yeah, I, I definitely am going to get back into it at some point it’s as I look back on it now, I’ll go back through even Instagram or, or the website and just kind of look at where I’ve been and what I’ve done. And it’s fun to relive those memories, you know, through photos and word. So it’s definitely something that I will get back into. 00;37;53;22 – 00;38;00;07 Ben It’s just been a different stage of life right now with work and family and and just trying that, just trying to get out, you know? 00;38;00;10 – 00;38;12;08 Dave Yeah, just trying to find time to do it. Well, is there as you look back that, you know, whatever spent 15 years or so kind of a memorable trip that really sticks out, you know, in Arizona that you’ve had along the way? 00;38;13;01 – 00;38;33;08 Ben I think probably some of the most fun I’ve had. I mean, I’ve got some really good friends that I absolutely love fishing with. But my wife has gotten more interested in fly fishing over the past couple of years. And where we’ve taken some wonderful trips together that are some of my favorite memories. A couple of those were up on Lees Ferry with with Dave Foster. 00;38;33;13 – 00;38;38;29 Dave Oh yeah. So you guys is this Lees ferry where you’re actually driving in to access or are you floating the river. 00;38;39;07 – 00;39;05;02 Ben Yeah. So there’s a little bit of access by foot, you know that, that first there’s a walking area that they call the walking area and, and then there’s no, there’s, there’s a mile or so there that you can fish along the bank, but most of the better fishing is, is only accessible by boat. So as you wrap up the canyon it’s it’s an unbelievable scenery to fishing like you’re just surrounded by red walls. 00;39;05;02 – 00;39;24;07 Ben There’s a ton of history there. There’s old petroglyphs and you’ll see wild horses and you’ll see bighorn sheep. And it’s it’s just unbelievable. So, yeah, those trips my wife have had become really special. And she’s turned into a heck of an angler. She’s. She’s got dialed in. I don’t got to I don’t got a babysitter at all. 00;39;24;07 – 00;39;25;29 Dave She’s here. She’s good to go. 00;39;26;08 – 00;39;30;24 Ben She’s got a dialed in, which is a lot of fun, which which helps when we’re when we’re running around with the three kids and a. 00;39;30;27 – 00;39;31;16 Dave Ride. 00;39;31;17 – 00;39;50;06 Ben You know, carrying carrying one of them through the creek and trying to untangle another and but yeah the the trucks are there have been good and then it’s been really wonderful fishing when my kids and seeing their excitement they’ll get a fly rod out and they’ll just go cast in the pool in the backyard there, their entrance and you know. 00;39;50;15 – 00;39;55;29 Dave That’s it, that’s it. Cool. And then you’ve done some of the a lot of that urban stuff to the carp. Carp stuff around there. 00;39;56;05 – 00;40;18;11 Ben Yeah, there is some great carp fishing. We don’t have a ton of canals right near me. So I’ve got another spot where it’s it’s a community that’s got probably like 40 or 60 little ponds that kind of all are from reclaimed water and they’re full of carp and tilapia and bass. And they’re fun to go walk around and, you know, sight fish for for carp. 00;40;18;22 – 00;40;27;11 Dave That’s it. Okay. What if you had, you know, you’re like one species, Arizona. You could you could fish for only one for the rest of your time. Which one is it? 00;40;27;25 – 00;40;30;27 Ben It’s not politically correct, but it’s brown trout every day. 00;40;30;27 – 00;40;42;21 Dave Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s right. Yeah, that’s. Yeah, that’s the one I guess I don’t think of in Arizona. Yeah, you bet. But they’re, they’re spread. It sounds like they’re all over the place. Anywhere you find Rainbow you’re going to likely find the Browns. 00;40;42;21 – 00;40;59;05 Ben Yeah. I think just back in the, I don’t know, sixties or seventies when they were just dumping fish in every place. I think. I think those brown trout, they’re. They’re so resilient so even on the warmer months where the water gets a little warmer, they they find a place to stay cool and the creeks are teeming with life. 00;40;59;05 – 00;41;08;24 Ben There’s plenty of bug activity. Most, most of them have crayfish, which, you know, are not native either. But yeah, they’re. We can grow some some big ones here. 00;41;09;03 – 00;41;24;27 Dave Yep. Nice. Well, anything else you want to give a heads up on about, you know, kind of your the website or kind of what you have going. Any other resources. I guess one thing we we definitely get some questions on is just you know great resources but it sounds like the fly shop’s a great place to start out if you’re coming out there. 00;41;25;07 – 00;41;30;11 Ben Fly shops are a great place to start. I’m always answering questions and giving as much information as I can. 00;41;30;19 – 00;41;34;21 Dave Yeah. So you’re still doing that through like your through the website, You still get to talk to some people there. 00;41;34;26 – 00;41;43;16 Ben Yeah. Yeah. My emails on there. So feel free to shoot me an email if you’re looking for, for fliers, you know, if your name’s unspecific or, or whatever. 00;41;43;21 – 00;41;51;06 Dave Yeah we’re we’re most of the orders that new orders you get from people. Where are those people coming from? Where do you think they’re tracking you down? 00;41;51;06 – 00;42;06;05 Ben I think a lot of the folks that are still that are buying fliers from me are old customers that like today, absolutely love flight Another, you know, they’ll they’ll buy two or three dozen at a time and I won’t hear from them for a year. And then then I hear from them again. And it’s good catching up with them. 00;42;06;05 – 00;42;21;04 Ben Folks, send me pictures or just tell me, you know, good stories and it’s fun. You know, your your time flies at your desk and you’re you’re imagining what someone else is doing with them and the fish you’re catching. That’s it’s cool. I enjoy a. 00;42;21;16 – 00;42;38;14 Dave Yeah, Pfizer, we’ve heard quite a bit about that. It’s it’s kind of cool. It’s one of those products that it seems like there’s no there’s unlimited like people You can start a business selling flies easily. Well, not easily, but you can find people to buy your fliers. You know what I mean? Because there’s just it’s such a people need fliers, you know. 00;42;38;14 – 00;42;55;13 Dave And I think that there’s a lot of places to go. But I’ve talked to a number of people that have done that where they just basically done what you did, just tying their own fliers and selling them. Yeah. And it makes sense. I mean, we high tide fliers at my dad’s fly shop for years as a kid, it’s pretty much I made all my money actually through, you know, through school and everything. 00;42;55;13 – 00;43;06;18 Dave And yeah, I kind of got a little burnt out on it, but I still enjoy. I’ll still sit down and tie when I get ready for a Steelhead trip or I can do it. It’s still fun. Do you still enjoy it or do you did you get kind of burnt out on it? 00;43;06;27 – 00;43;31;16 Ben Oh, there was there was points of burnout, but it’s it’s manageable enough now where I really do enjoy it. And I’m kind of like you’re saying there’s something about tie in fliers for a trip and having, having confidence in what you’re throwing. Like any time I go to a fly shop in some new state or place, I’ll buy a handful of flies and I’ll fish. 00;43;31;21 – 00;43;35;05 Ben But I don’t fish. I’m like. Like I believe in them, you and me. 00;43;35;07 – 00;43;36;22 Dave Yeah, right. You got to believe. 00;43;36;23 – 00;43;50;16 Ben Yeah. So I think there’s a lot involved in that. When you find a pattern tied by yourself or somebody else that you really like, it’s like, I know I can catch fish on this. I just got to put it in the right spot and and have confidence in it. It’s a little bit of magic there, you know? 00;43;50;25 – 00;44;14;08 Dave Definitely, definitely. Cool. Awesome. And I think then we’ll send everybody, as we mentioned, AC Wandering XCOM or Easy Wanderings on Instagram. We’ll have links out there. They can track you down and yeah, thanks for the little intro on Arizona. It’s been a while since I’ve been there, but we’re I love the the road trips as well, so hopefully we’ll be swinging by there and I’ll give people an opportunity to check out the state and yeah, thanks for all your time. 00;44;14;18 – 00;44;18;22 Ben Yeah. Gimme Shelter when you swing by Hugo Fish. 00;44;18;22 – 00;44;34;10 Dave There you go. You can find Ben, as we mentioned, Azi Wandering XCOM if you want to get some fliers tied, a few furloughed leaders. If you want to check out the band, do that right now. And he’s going to hook you up if you have any questions about Arizona as well. Best places to check in with him and he can answer any questions you have. 00;44;34;22 – 00;44;54;17 Dave Hope you enjoyed that one. And next week, we’re going to be heading out and heading back to Togiak, Alaska. We’re going to talk to Larry, my guide, who was on the trip this summer, and Togiak and I was there for a great trip and talk about that day on the water with Larry, had an amazing exploration. That’s on Monday. 00;44;54;28 – 00;45;15;26 Dave So stay tuned for if you haven’t subscribed yet to the show, do that and you’ll get that episode delivered to your inbox. And I hope you are having a great afternoon. Hope you have a great evening. And if it’s morning, wherever you are in the world, I hope you enjoy your morning and your day. We’ll see you on the next episode, Ducky, then thanks for listening to the wet fly swing fly fishing show for notes and links from this episode. 00;45;15;28 – 00;45;19;28 Dave Visit Wet fly, swing, Dotcom.